Notice.

[brairtrainer]

My father has said before that friends are quicker to back stab you than your enemy. I have been hurt many times by a close friend and I put that stuff behind me more often than I should.

 

Anyway saying in theory it should lower how many people PM mods about it people are still going to either way. It's not going to stop. I said before make trade only mods to deal with it. Move all those trade threads into it's own section and make some mods that go around and deal with them. I myself would be happy to help.

this...I'd be willing to mod but I haven't been her long enough nor posted enough and I'd rather see some more expiranced players go before me but pointing out you have people who'd want to do it.

[Xylene]

Oh dear, there are a lot of you talking at me. Ahahaha. I suppose I asked for that.

 

actually i traded with trustyworthy friends and I got backstabbed by them. I much rather trade with a random stranger I know nothing about so he/she can't backstab me

Personally I've only been stabbed by a few friends. I've had more people who I don't know attempting to scam me. Sucks if your friends did that, but then they weren't very good friends in the first place and you're better off without them.

 

My father has said before that friends are quicker to back stab you than your enemy. I have been hurt many times by a close friend and I put that stuff behind me more often than I should.

 

Anyway saying in theory it should lower how many people PM mods about it people are still going to either way. It's not going to stop. I said before make trade only mods to deal with it. Move all those trade threads into it's own section and make some mods that go around and deal with them. I myself would be happy to help.

I like your suggestions more and more; it's not an "I hate this rule" statement, but "Here are suggestions for how to make this more palatable for all of us". I'd also be willing to help out if something like that were to happen. I'm not saying that all the PMs to the mods would stop outright, but that there should be less going on.

 

And what happens if you don't know the right people? What if you don't have any friends?

 

I, for one, know I have made myself somewhat unpopular for daring to voice my opinion in threads such as these. Should I not be allowed to trade just because I don't know or have anyone to go to?

Well, it's not just that you'd trade with friends. There ARE a number of trustworthy people on the forums, and as I understand, you simply cannot announce IOUs in public, official places. There's nothing stopping you from saying in your signature that you accept IOUs, and PMing back and forth on other sites or unofficial channels, as Thuban said. ;3

Edited October 2, 2012 by Xylene

[rubyshoes]

 

However, i would like to add one really really important note here that has not been addressed: While we will not enforce iou trades that have gone badly, if you are being harrassed by a member either in pm, or in the chat, PLEASE make a report. It is not ok to harrass or bully people for not paying up on their end. It is not ok to set all your friends after someone to threaten them to pay up or else. While we will not force a trade to be completed, we WILL take harrassment issues that happen in PM here on the forum or in chat seriously. I do not tolerate bullying.

A very good point and I've added that to the first post as well.

[Banuk]

Well, it's not just that you'd trade with friends. There ARE a number of trustworthy people on the forums, and as I understand, you simply cannot announce IOUs in public, official places. There's nothing stopping you from saying in your signature that you accept IOUs, and PMing back and forth on other sites or unofficial channels, as Thuban said. ;3

Mmm, except I don't know anyone on any other sites. Forum is the only channel I have, and I personally find it bad enough that I had to sign up to a site completely separate from the main site to even be able to talk to people in the first place. How many other places should I have to sign up for, really? I already have to keep three tabs open for DC (the main site, the forums, and a hatchery, and if I don't have them there pretty much all the time I forget they exist), how many more should I have to add to that to be able to communicate with people and arrange trades properly?

Edited October 2, 2012 by Derranged

[Sukisho]

While I am still very against this new rule, I am just gonna point at my signature about some things that are being set up, just click them to join and see what users are doing about this issue.

[Xylene]

Mmm, except I don't know anyone on any other sites. Forum is the only channel I have, and I personally find it bad enough that I had to sign up to a site completely separate from the main site to even be able to talk to people in the first place. How many other places should I have to sign up for, really? I already have to keep three tabs open for DC (the main site, the forums, and a hatchery), how many more should I have to add to that to be able to communicate with people and arrange trades properly?

In my case I've found that there are a decent number of regulars in dragcave's IRC. Truth be told, I rarely look at the forums for IOUs - I just glance at what people in the chat are looking for, and then offer what I can. If someone's usually there I tend to trust them more than a random newbie, and with all the regulars in the chat, there's almost always someone who can tell you if a person is a trustworthy trader or not. And you can communicate in real-time, assuming they're online. (If not, guess it's back to the forums... dunno. Are we derailing the thread?)

[Banuk]

In my case I've found that there are a decent number of regulars in dragcave's IRC. Truth be told, I rarely look at the forums for IOUs - I just glance at what people in the chat are looking for, and then offer what I can. If someone's usually there I tend to trust them more than a random newbie, and with all the regulars in the chat, there's almost always someone who can tell you if a person is a trustworthy trader or not. And you can communicate in real-time, assuming they're online. (If not, guess it's back to the forums... dunno. Are we derailing the thread?)

Not everyone uses the IRC. Not everyone can.

 

Telling everyone that if they want to arrange an IOU they should go to the IRC doesn't work for some players.

[bbik]

Yeesh, 4 pages to 15 while I wasn't looking. I can't read that fast!

 

So, asking for an IOU isn't allowed. I don't really agree with it, but fine.

 

What about something like this, though?

Have: [insert pairing] -- Not yet bred.

Want:

Please note: Neither half of the trade is expected until the pair is bred, and if no eggs are produced, the trade is off.

Does that count as an IOU? Technically, the proposed trade doesn't exist when the post is made. However, neither side would have any chance of being scammed, either, since no trade is made until both sides can complete the full trade-teleport procedure. And if it's going through a two-way trade link, that is by definition not an IOU. So... ?

[Xylene]

Not everyone uses the IRC. Not everyone can.

 

Telling everyone that if they want to arrange an IOU they should go to the IRC doesn't work for some players.

I'm sorry, it's always my immediate thought because it's my hangout, and also my addiction. (Seriously, I'm there almost every day. Plus I'm an impatient person and I like people responding instantly when I talk to them. I suck, okay? ) I can't say I know the vast majority of forum users, but I assume once they have a list of trustworthy traders up and running you'll have an easier time trying to find a good trade. In the mean time there's not much you can do, but I wish you the best of luck.

[blackdragon71]

*points at updated profile* Sig update to follow later. Wasn't too hard, actually.

[demonicvampiregirl]

I like your suggestions more and more; it's not an "I hate this rule" statement, but "Here are suggestions for how to make this more palatable for all of us". I'd also be willing to help out if something like that were to happen. I'm not saying that all the PMs to the mods would stop outright, but that there should be less going on.

Yeah I just would like a halfway point. I get we can go offsite but those have a habit of dying.

 

I get how frustrating it can be to get all these reports on people scamming others. I understand it but you have to deal with it and not just cut it off completely. There still will be reports just not as many as before.

 

Like I suggested move all trade threads to it's own sections and set up mods for them. I'd be willing to help I check the forums multiple times a day.

[Snowytoshi]

While I am still very against this new rule, I am just gonna point at my signature about some things that are being set up, just click them to join and see what users are doing about this issue.

I just thought I should mention that http://tradingious.proboards.com/ is run by gistofeverything and I. We both welcome any comments and suggestions!

 

 

[rubyshoes]

Yeesh, 4 pages to 15 while I wasn't looking. I can't read that fast!

 

So, asking for an IOU isn't allowed. I don't really agree with it, but fine.

 

What about something like this, though?

 

Does that count as an IOU? Technically, the proposed trade doesn't exist when the post is made. However, neither side would have any chance of being scammed, either, since no trade is made until both sides can complete the full trade-teleport procedure. And if it's going through a two-way trade link, that is by definition not an IOU. So... ?

It would count as an IOU. The "have" should be something that the member currently has on their scroll.

[Ashes The Second]

It would count as an IOU. The "have" should be something that the member currently has on their scroll.

Then that generally eliminates circulating /anything/ to do with golds, silvers, and the like. If you want to cause mass uproar, I think you just might have.

[bbik]

It would count as an IOU. The "have" should be something that the member currently has on their scroll.

So effectively, we're not only eliminating IOUs, we're questioning how valid official trade links really are and may as well require the links themselves in the post to make sure it all happens instantaneously. Nice to know we've reached such extremes.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Then that generally eliminates circulating /anything/ to do with golds, silvers, and the like. If you want to cause mass uproar, I think you just might have.

Well, metals aren't that huge of an issue, because you can just breed them and then trade them (or, alternately, tackle down someone who is offering them when THEY breed them).

 

However, you can kiss trading for nice Hollies goodbye. Want to trade a CB Metal for a 2nd gen Holly? Good luck catching it within the week-long period when they can breed! :'D

[LibbyLishly]

I just thought I should mention that http://tradingious.proboards.com/ is run by gistofeverything and I. We both welcome any comments and suggestions!

In addition, there is also now the L&L IOU Speakeasy. We're also open to comments and suggestions. I figure that the more places we have for this, the better.

Edited October 2, 2012 by LibbyLishly

[coltzen]

By "Yes, you can post you accept IOUs in your sig/profile"

 

Does this mean we can put *specific* trades in our sigs instead of just a general 'I accept/give IOUs' statement? So would having 'looking for a holly IOU for this christmas' in your signature be against the rules?

[rubyshoes]

By "Yes, you can post you accept IOUs in your sig/profile"

 

Does this mean we can put *specific* trades in our sigs instead of just a general 'I accept/give IOUs' statement? So would having 'looking for a holly IOU for this christmas' in your signature be against the rules?

That would be fine to post in your sig.

[coltzen]

That would be fine to post in your sig.

That's great, thank you.

[rubyshoes]

That's great, thank you.

Your welcome.

[danegrrrl]

So...

 

Just so I'm clear....

 

We're allowed to have "I Accept IOUs" in our Signature and Profile (which is part of Dragon Cave forums) but not in a post (which is a part of Dragon Cave forums) because Dragon Cave/Dragon Cave Forums doesn't support IOUs and feels it would be easier to take away and essential part of trading that is done by many *responsible* traders each and every day, rather than tell the whiners that come to the mods over a deal gone bad that "Hey, it was a risk you chose to take despite the bright shiny WARNINGS. Sorry, not our problem."

 

Am I clear? Because if so, that just stinks. I think it's rotten. And it's confusing, and quite frankly, makes no sense. But hey, I'm just a member. My thoughts and opinions probably don't mean much at the end of the day to the powers that be. But just when I felt like I was a part of this community, and had started building up a nice relationship with other traders, the main bulk of my trading ability has been squashed for no real reason.

 

Awesome. I think there could've been so many better ways to deal with this without resorting to punishing those of us that do follow a moral compass.

 

*Shrug*

 

 

[angelicdragonpuppy]

So...

 

Just so I'm clear....

 

We're allowed to have "I Accept IOUs" in our Signature and Profile (which is part of Dragon Cave forums) but not in a post (which is a part of Dragon Cave forums) because Dragon Cave/Dragon Cave Forums doesn't support IOUs and feels it would be easier to take away and essential part of trading that is done by many *responsible* traders each and every day, rather than tell the whiners that come to the mods over a deal gone bad that "Hey, it was a risk you chose to take despite the bright shiny WARNINGS. Sorry, not our problem."

 

Am I clear? Because if so, that just stinks. I think it's rotten. And it's confusing, and quite frankly, makes no sense. But hey, I'm just a member. My thoughts and opinions probably don't mean much at the end of the day to the powers that be. But just when I felt like I was a part of this community, and had started building up a nice relationship with other traders, the main bulk of my trading ability has been squashed for no real reason.

 

Awesome. I think there could've been so many better ways to deal with this without resorting to punishing those of us that do follow a moral compass.

 

*Shrug*

You have just joined the ranks of "users capable of very accurately summarizing my thoughts."

[dragonpuck]

 

However, you can kiss trading for nice Hollies goodbye. Want to trade a CB Metal for a 2nd gen Holly? Good luck catching it within the week-long period when they can breed! :'D

And since they can't trade off the one they can-- they probably won't breed at all and there goes a chance for a nice one appearing in the AP-- good thing I have a decent one already

 

I'm not an IOU type for the most part, but IOU add-ons to a "have " trade is often necessary when you can't breed 2nd gen metals and tinsels, don't make ND's and can't catch CB Metals- sending everyone off forum will lead to a very limited availability on the forum and then why will we need the forum at all.

 

this will make my scroll/lineage completion much harder *sighs*. I have always hated being punished for others misdeeds. this seems a bit extreme- why not just ban trading on the forums???

Edited October 2, 2012 by dragonpuck

[Thuban]

I'd like to stick my neck out here and say once again: I personally think its awesome you guys are allowed to post in your sigs that you accept ious. Most places.. if something is banned.. its banned. Theres no work arounds.. at least with that, you can still advertise what you are looking for. Ignoring the mod side.. im rather excited to be able to advertise im looking for cb slimy hatchys in my sig if i want to. I loved advertising my balloon hoard in my sig. I look forward to evetually offering to /try/ to hunt hollies for people who need help. I was able to catch and gift 10 (and was handed three specifically for gifting purposes) last year, and im looking forward to advertising my services again this year. I keep saying i dont want to hunt for people.. but im not going to let the few bad apples from last year keep me from it this year.