ANSWERED:Inbreeding warning

[Sir Barton]

2) Anyone who has played around with a few hatchery sites (and, if I may be so bold, the majority of us DO use hatchery sites) has likely already come across an inbreeding checker. If those haven't sufficiently alarmed people to create more inbreeding-related help questions, then I don't think anything on-site will, either.

Just to throw it out there...

 

Maybe the reason that we get questions as to if inbreeding is wrong from new folks is because they did come across the checkers on fan sites. It could be the cause of some of the negativity, however what a fan site offers and what the actual site appears to imply have different impacts on the views of players because the site would be taking an official stand where a fan site is just the options of.. well fans.

 

Just thoughts.

[Varekis]

The only question I have for this suggestion is why there should be a warning. Obviously it's "to let people know they will inbreed their dragons" but that would imply that inbreeding is an inherently bad thing for our dragons. Yeah, a lot of us see inbreeding as being bad but that's mostly because we're applying our real life opinions to DC. There are people who specifically inbreed their dragons - is that wrong too?

 

It's really not that hard to check for inbreeding if you wanted to. Plus I don't think it's really necessary to let new players start off with the whole "inbred lineages are bad!" mindset. Let them develop their opinion themselves without the site telling them one way or another.

[Pokemonfan13]

I personally like an inbreeding warning. Avoiding inbreeding can be hard and a quick popup that says "The offspring of this pairing will be inbred, do you wish to continue?" [maybe with a note that inbreeding does not adversely affect the egg or hatchling in any way] would really help a lot.

 

It matters a lot to some people, and as long as it is not annoying for people who want to inbreed, perhaps with the ability to turn on the warning with the default being off so those who want to inbreed never even have to see it.

[Ashes The Second]

The only question I have for this suggestion is why there should be a warning. Obviously it's "to let people know they will inbreed their dragons" but that would imply that inbreeding is an inherently bad thing for our dragons. Yeah, a lot of us see inbreeding as being bad but that's mostly because we're applying our real life opinions to DC. There are people who specifically inbreed their dragons - is that wrong too?

 

It's really not that hard to check for inbreeding if you wanted to. Plus I don't think it's really necessary to let new players start off with the whole "inbred lineages are bad!" mindset. Let them develop their opinion themselves without the site telling them one way or another.

This. I like this game because I can inbreed without horrible side effects. It's frustrating to see people going 'ohnoz, inbreeding!' What about the lineage, and if it's /supposed/ to be like that? It would knock down the fun of the game.

 

Inbred checkers exist for a reason.

 

edit; Pokemon, that could easily defy the whole point of no one checked the forum for announcements or something.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Ashes The Second

[Tawanda001]

It's frustrating to see people going 'ohnoz, inbreeding!' What about the lineage, and if it's /supposed/ to be like that?

Well, that's because of your preferred style of playing. You don't care about inbreeding so you find it frustrating that other people do care.

So are we saying that the people that don't care are more right than the people that do care?

That we can't even consider something that some people might find helpful because it doesn't fit the way other people play?

 

Like I said, I don't really have anything against inbreeding per se, but I don't see any problem with this being available as an option that could be turned on or off. I don't like accidental inbreeding and it is a pain to have to go offsite to a lineage checker and check every pair I want to breed first. The bigger my scroll gets the more of a pain this is. A quick little popup or something similar would be a lot more convenient.

 

As far as newbs getting the idea that inbred is bad, I'd wager that the majority of that comes from the trade threads, not from any kind of lineage checking site. I doubt an optional inbred checker on the scrolls would have much influence on that perception one way or the other.

[Nine]

Like I said, I don't really have anything against inbreeding per se, but I don't see any problem with this being available as an option that could be turned on or off.

This is why I'd be fine with this feature, as well. I'd use it just to be sure I don't accidentally inbreed if it's not my intent-- if others wouldn't use it, then that's cool for them. They don't have to, wouldn't affect their gameplay.

 

I truly, seriously, honestly, very much doubt a feature like this would affect peoples' views on inbreeding. Though if it's really that much of a worry for people, the feature can even be reworded to be something like, "Adds an asterisk next to the name/code of related dragons when viewing a dragon's breeding list." The word 'inbreeding' doesn't even have to be involved.

[Ashes The Second]

Well, that's because of your preferred style of playing. You don't care about inbreeding so you find it frustrating that other people do care.

So are we saying that the people that don't care are more right than the people that do care?

That we can't even consider something that some people might find helpful because it doesn't fit the way other people play?

 

Like I said, I don't really have anything against inbreeding per se, but I don't see any problem with this being available as an option that could be turned on or off. I don't like accidental inbreeding and it is a pain to have to go offsite to a lineage checker and check every pair I want to breed first. The bigger my scroll gets the more of a pain this is. A quick little popup or something similar would be a lot more convenient.

 

As far as newbs getting the idea that inbred is bad, I'd wager that the majority of that comes from the trade threads, not from any kind of lineage checking site. I doubt an optional inbred checker on the scrolls would have much influence on that perception one way or the other.

Yes, but the playstyle of not inbreeding your, say, ol pink when there are no more is incredibly limiting. please don't put words in mouth and say something I wasn't implying. It was a complaint against the fact inbreeding isn't popular, not the non-inbreeders/ect themselves.

[StormWizard212]

Shot down many times because as TJ has said over and over - inbreeding in this game has NO ADVERSE CONSEQUENCES. And many of us do it on purpose.

This. I accidentally bred something with the wrong dragon just a few days ago and ended up with an inbred egg as a result, but that's my fault for not checking properly first. The game shouldn't be responsible for every instance of human error, in my opinion.

[Ashes The Second]

This. I accidentally bred something with the wrong dragon just a few days ago and ended up with an inbred egg as a result, but that's my fault for not checking properly first. The game shouldn't be responsible for every instance of human error, in my opinion.

This. If it was, do you know much lag would exist from just producing the message? -- please no one ask for an ibred checker, too. |D;

[Cefie]

I don't mind either way whether or not a message pops up, but if it's that much of a hassle for a simple message to pop up in case you didn't know you would breed an inbred egg, then no. Otherwise, sure. I do check long-lineaged eggs with an inbred checker if I want to breed it, but having a message pop up would be a lot easier. Then again, the hassle.

[Sir Barton]

This. I accidentally bred something with the wrong dragon just a few days ago and ended up with an inbred egg as a result, but that's my fault for not checking properly first. The game shouldn't be responsible for every instance of human error, in my opinion.

I think along these lines as well. Just like with breeding animals in the real world, it should be up to you to know your lineage, not the sites.

 

...and a message on the site would still indicate that the site itself sees something ... different, if you don't want to say wrong, with inbreed as oppose to outbreeding. No such message leaves all play styles on even footing as it should be since the site doesn't see it differently.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Sir Barton

[Pokemonfan13]

I think along these lines as well. Just like with breeding animals in the real world, it should be up to you to know your lineage, not the sites.

 

...and a message on the site would still indicate that the site itself sees something ... different, if you don't want to say wrong, with inbreed as oppose to outbreeding. No such message leaves all play styles on even footing as it should be since the site doesn't see it differently.

I don't think it does. It says that some of the dragontamers don't like to breed a dragon with its own great grandfather and would like a warning when that is about to happen.

 

Have "Having the same dragon in the lineage multiple times does not impact the egg, hatchling, or adult in any way" in the message. That way it in no way implies that there is something "wrong" with inbreeding.

[Amblypygid]

I think "This egg will be inbred, but that's okay, but you should know", or any statement to that effect (including "this egg will be inbred, which has no effect on gameplay" etc.) implies a value judgment. Anyone who cares about inbreeding is capable of manually checking, or using a fan site to screen lineages: personally, I don't really think that adding an inbreeding checker to DC itself will improve the site. Even making "check for inbreeding?" an optional function is still worryingly prescriptivist.

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

I think "This egg will be inbred, but that's okay, but you should know", or any statement to that effect (including "this egg will be inbred, which has no effect on gameplay" etc.)  implies a value judgment. Anyone who cares about inbreeding is capable of manually checking, or using a fan site to screen lineages: personally, I don't really think that adding an inbreeding checker to DC itself will improve the site. Even making "check for inbreeding?" an optional function is still worryingly prescriptivist.

THIS !

 

Those who care know to check. Those who don't care and later do can LEARN to check. I do both inbred and clean lineages. It took me no time to all to work out how to check - before I was even on this forum. It is mostly in short and manageable lineages that it matters anyway: if you have a dragon with a lineage like this:

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/BYb9

 

why would you care - she is worthless for trade anyway

 

(yes, she's heavily inbred. 180 repeats . Don't bother looking her up ! She is still my FRIEND )

Edited September 4, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[Sir Barton]

Those who care know to check. Those who don't care and later do can LEARN to check. I do both inbred and clean lineages. It took me no time to all to work out how to check - before I was even on this forum.

I was reading back over some of the post and there was a post to Ashes that annoyed me and I couldn't figure out why until I read Fuzz's post here. There is an Us Vs. Them mentality that seems to dominant this particular subject, but in reality we're all the same. I dare to say that all of us who create carefully designed inbred lines http://dragcave.net/lineage/7796O also create just as carefully design outbred lines http://dragcave.net/lineage/kt665 http://dragcave.net/lineage/EQ49k ;so the argument of "You don't care about inbreeding so you find it frustrating that other people do care." is really rather ignorant. What we care about is creating the lineage that we want and that is being a responsible breeder.

 

A breeder should be responsible for their own lines instead of expecting the site to be responsible. Picking the correct mate is part of the challenge of breeding and I don't feel that the site should spoon feed you and take that responsibility away. I can honestly say that I have never inbred unless it was on purpose, but I have accidentally bred a third gen to a second or fourth gen by mistake. You lose that week of breeding but you learn to be more careful next time.

 

Is it really that difficult to be a responsible breeder? Do you really need to have everything simplified when already all we do is click a button? Put forth the effort of clicking one more button and going to a fan site if you're worried about mates causing an inbred offspring. Take pride in creating something that took a little effort on your part instead of looking for the easy way out. Right now creating a long clean line is something to be proud of because of the effort involved; remove that effort and the skill because much less impressive.

 

*gets off soapbox*

Edited September 4, 2012 by Sir Barton

[stogucheme]

I was reading back over some of the post and there was a post to Ashes that annoyed me and I couldn't figure out why until I read Fuzz's post here. There is an Us Vs. Them mentality that seems to dominant this particular subject, but in reality we're all the same. I dare to say that all of us who create carefully designed inbred lines http://dragcave.net/lineage/7796O also create just as carefully design outbred lines http://dragcave.net/lineage/kt665 http://dragcave.net/lineage/EQ49k ;so the argument of "You don't care about inbreeding so you find it frustrating that other people do care." is really rather ignorant. What we care about is creating the lineage that we want and that is being a responsible breeder.

Yup! I have these:

Inbred- http://dragcave.net/lineage/61FXB

http://dragcave.net/lineage/JoLsX

http://dragcave.net/lineage/oDdsD

 

Outbred- http://dragcave.net/lineage/S5f8M

http://dragcave.net/lineage/pqfZq

http://dragcave.net/lineage/vPH2m

http://dragcave.net/lineage/JOeGl

 

Again, I'd be fine if there were some kind of warning for both (instead of just "breed" it's "inbreed/outbreed"), but not just for one.

[Ashes The Second]

Sir -- it's not ignorance, it's an inherit frustration with someone saying 'If you inbreed, it's wrong.' It /is/ worng in human culture/the real world. This is /not/ the real world. If you want an inbreeding warning, you should probably look elsewhere. 8v

[Sir Barton]

Sir -- it's not ignorance, it's an inherit frustration with someone saying 'If you inbreed, it's wrong.' It /is/ worng in human culture/the real world. This is /not/ the real world. If you want an inbreeding warning, you should probably look elsewhere. 8v

Ignorance on the part of Tawanda001 in assuming that people who argue against this sort of flagging look at it simply as "I accept inbreeding so you should as well." It's not "In-breeder Vs. Out-breeder" since, at least most In-breeders tend to do both. It's about taking responsibility for what you produce vs. looking to have the site take over that responsibility because you can't be bothered to put out a little effort.

 

Yes, I personally find it a bit silly since all animals, including humans, have some degree of inbreeding when you follow lineage back far enough, but I'm not bothered by players who are turned off by it. That would be their own hang up and they can play as they like. It's personal preference. The thing with personal preference is you should be personally responsible for it instead of expect the site to cater to it just to make your life easier.

 

I apologize if I was unclear in my other post.

 

And for the record.. I am not calling anyone ignorant; I am calling that thought process ignorant because it ignores the reality of the other person's view by trying to pigeon hole them into a single play style.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Sir Barton

[Ashywolf]

It would have saved my bright pink from being horribly inbred, but I don't really see the need. As said before, its an optional game mechanic. Indeed it took me 2 years to learn of this "inbreeding" hype, but it really is a human opinion not a draconic one (or maybe it is, who knows.).

 

Some people really don't care. Perhaps chuck it under Help or something.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Ashywolf

[OMGitsKairi]

I'll put my $0.2 in, the way I do every time this topic comes up. What about a symbol

next to the dragon's name on the breeding page if the resulting egg would be inbred?

And a different symbol next to the names if the egg would NOT be inbred. That way,

it doesn't say, "Inbreeding is baaaad" or "Inbreeding is greeeat." All it will say would

be "Hey, the egg will be inbred if you breed these two dragons," and "Hey, this egg

will not be inbred if you breed these two dragons."

 

I made an image to show you what I mean:

 

 

One of the symbols would indicate that the egg would be inbred, and the other would

indicate that it will not.

 

Edit: It wouldn't necessarily have to be THOSE symbols. It's just an example.

Edited September 4, 2012 by omgitskairi

[TJ09]

I do not see a need for any such "warning." If someone can demonstrate an objective downside to having an "inbred" dragon, I may reconsider, but I am currently not aware of any such drawbacks.