Python Ban

[The Evil Doer]

If I were to find one on pythons someone would say how they are different from other snakes, research it your self, there are billions of case studies around the net, understanding that freedom is better than captivity is pretty much common sense in my book... However I would very much enjoy reading a study that proves otherwise.

[sammyjean]

Prison is a cool place to be in, havent heard that one before 

 

Here you go, Research feel free to look up any other research on the subject of captivity Vs natural habitat when it comes to wild animals, they will all state the obvious - freedom is better than captivity

 

Some people enjoyed prison, what can I say. You know, not a lot of people may live and be thankful such as us, some people may have hard horrible lives, and imagine, prison was a better choice. But yeah whatevs.

 

Bears are not the same as snakes... If I find an article on snake behaviour, Ill post it up.

Edited January 23, 2012 by sammyjean

[JaziandCo]

Is this not the same argument people use for indoor cats vs outdoor cats, roaming dogs vs dogs that have clear masters? I'm sure dogs would much prefer to be outside and roaming with their family than stuck in a house all day... otherwise they wouldn't whine to go outside and play. Should dogs not be pets either? Cats? Rabbits, rodents, ferrets, chinchillas? Nothing becomes domesticated without human help... that's kind of the point.

 

My snake is not a wild animal. He is as domestic as he's going to get, he's lost a good deal of his wild instincts, and he would probably die should he be released in an environment that would remain warm/humid enough for him (which is... not in my state at all). He knows he gets already-dead food from a pair of tongs, which means he doesn't quite know how to hunt or kill things either. He doesn't protest being picked up and played with, and he likes his head to be rubbed. A snake with those characteristics in the wild is rare, why? Because that's pretty much all of their natural self-preservation instincts down the toilet.

 

He's not any more wild than my cat is-- actually, he's less. My cat lived the first year of her life with owners that did not feed, vaccinate, or spay her. She's lived with me for a year and a half and has proved that she knows how to hunt and survive in the wild. If I would release both of them, the cat would be the one living the longest. Technically that makes her a lot more wild than my python.

[Wookieinmashoo]

Prison is a cool place to be in, havent heard that one before

Some people actually continue to commit crimes just to go back to prison. As a my brother's friend said: " I had a roof over my head, a bed, and three meals a day", which is more than what some people can get nowadays.

 

Anyway, I think the python ban is specifically for Florida where they're now an invasive species. Despite not everyone in Florida not being a bad python owner, I would still support their banning. Florida already has some delicate ecosystems with endangered species and do not need things to make a situation worse.

[JaziandCo]

Yes and no. The included pythons in the current ban across the nation are not allowed to be moved from state to state, which cripples the business drastically. Florida has their own, stricter, laws about such things.

 

The reason people are outraged is that these snakes can really only survive in southern Florida (or, you know, in your basement). Everywhere else in the US is either too hot, too dry, too humid, or too cold. It doesn't make sense to ban pythons across the country when only one state could really be affected by it.

[grimace]

I am against holding any wild animals as pets too, python is a predator, covers a whole bunch of miles and is a king of its teritory, free to roam wherever, to eat whatever and to breed when it feels like it, people hug it and feed it mice and somehow feel like its a worthy substitute for stripping it of all its instincts, of what it is to be a snake, you think its a great life for a wild snake, I think its the selfishness of people to assume a wild animal like a snake could care less about humans giving it love....

Its called a wild animal so by definition it is not meant to live in your room, my 2 cents.

 

Edit -

 

Well, You are not a snake, but why dont you think of it this way, you as well have predators, would you rather I stick you inside a cage, protect you from predators and feed you decent meals or would you rather be free to be all you can be, think about that, its a sweet deal... not

>python

>covering a bunch of miles

>roaming

 

 

Just stop. You don't know anything about snakes. At all.

 

This would be like me going into the dog thread and telling people its cruel to keep dogs because they are meant to live in outer space, eating asteroids and flying for lightyears.

 

Go actually learn about snakes, and then come back.

Edited January 23, 2012 by grimace

[Maiden]

Some people actually continue to commit crimes just to go back to prison. As a my brother's friend said: " I had a roof over my head, a bed, and three meals a day", which is more than what some people can get nowadays.

Having one's freedom taken away isn't nice, but yes, there are some people who purposefully go to jail. If you were a homeless person, outside in the cold on the street, and hungry, all of a sudden jail doesn't seem so bad for exactly the reasons listed above.

 

Now, back on topic.

 

I like snakes. I don't have one, but I have a Leopard Gecko and she's great. I've had fish, lizards, rats, guinea pigs, horses, dogs, cats, tarantulas, pretty much everything but birds. (Birds kind of creep me out, no offense if anyone keeps them.)

 

I read a few articles on this ban; it looks like they're only going to be banning the snakes from being imported to Florida, and there are nine species of large pythons on the list. Since Florida has a unique ecosystem in the U.S. that is conductive to the survival of large, introduced snakes, it probably makes a lot of sense for their state. It's not possible to legislate common sense - common sense that would include someone who wants a python doing their research and realizing that yes, the snake can and will grow to more than six feet in length.

 

Most people who have pets are responsible, and love them. It's unfortunate that the few people who don't have to ruin it for the rest of us. And I more than agree that it's a slippery slope. If we let them ban this pet, they may start to ban all pets. But don't most states have laws against owning Pit Bulls, too? (For the record, I like Pits and have known some very sweet ones.) It's not so much about the animal as the owner. And since we can't outlaw stupidity...

 

...we outlaw big, strong pets. It's sad.

[skinst]

I am not keen on snakes myself, but I've nothing against people who love them. There are a lot of snake/lizard lovers on this site.

I'm in the same mind.

[NixAyum]

Not what I was expecting, but ok.

 

Not sure where I stand yet, but I actually live in Florida help save me I want snow it's too hot and would love to own a pet snake. Probably a very domesticated one like Jazi's, and not one that would grow too big.

 

The misleading topic title: I love my cats at home so much but they haet me. :<

[JaziandCo]

Hrr, it seems there's a lot of confusion on what the current ban actually says. This is what the new law is actually detailing:

 

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has finalized a rule that would ban the importation and interstate transportation of four nonnative constrictor snakes that threaten the Everglades and other sensitive ecosystems across the United States, Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar announced today.

 

The final rule – which incorporates public comments, economic analysis, and environmental assessment – lists the Burmese python, the yellow anaconda, and the northern and southern African pythons as injurious wildlife under the Lacey Act in order to restrict their spread in the wild in the United States. It is expected to publish in the Federal Register in the coming days.

 

Four species, across the ENTIRE US, when the only place in the US that could possibly house these snakes is southern Florida such as the Everglades. You may own them, but you may not import, you may not move them across state lines. If you yourself are moving due to a job, you must find a new home for your pet or be forced to give it to the government... who is more likely to destroy it than rehome. Explained more:

 

Sixty days after publication of the final rule in the Federal Register, interstate transport and importation of live individuals, gametes, viable eggs, or hybrids of the Burmese python, northern and southern African pythons and yellow anaconda into the United States will be prohibited.

 

As well as:

 

Ashe said the Service will continue to consider listing as injurious the five other species of nonnative snakes that the agency also proposed in 2010 – the reticulated python, boa constrictor, DeSchauensee’s anaconda, green anaconda and Beni anaconda.

 

Most people who own any of these four species will not be affected. Those who own any of these four species of snakes will be allowed to keep them if allowed by state law. However, they cannot take, send, or sell them across state lines. Those who wish to export these species may do so from a designated port within their state after acquiring appropriate permits from the Service.

 

It should be noted that the boa constrictor is not just one kind of snake, but a name for many species including snakes that do not get very large at all. There have been rumors that they also want to ban all pythons, including little ones like ball (royal), children's, and spotted pythons.

 

The article forgets to add that the only people who may obtain a permit are businesses such as schools, zoos, and conservations. Pet owners are not able to get a permit. You must give up your snake if you need to travel.

 

It also forgets to mention that the people who thought this ban up also estimate between a $10mil and $20mil hit on the US economy due to lost revenue and lost jobs. Because our economy can totally do that, right?

 

Pulling my stuff from here as it's one of the few places that actually say what the law is in understandable terms.

[brightscalessaphira]

This is stupid. Having a snake is just like having a dog or cat. I was also flying to Colorado and was reading a magazine and it said that you can no longer ship snakes by plane. I can understand why the government wants to band pythons since some pet owners find them to big and abandon them in parks, but that doesn't mean that everyone does it and they shouldn't be punishing other snake species for that.

[Fortune86]

Even though I don't have any, I love snakes of all shapes and sizes. The only reason I don't have a pet one is because I know I would never be able to feed it due to my own fears over its diet. I hate bugs and would never be able to feed something live mice or whatever.

 

Anyway, as long as the animal (snake or not) is healthy and well cared for then I don't see why the Goverment should have any right in taking it away from its owner/s. Unless of course it was obtained illegally, then they should swoop in like the ninjas from hell.

 

I'd just like to point out that ALL 'tame' animals are theoretically wild animals. Humans have been domesticating animals for thousands of years, but they all have their roots in the wild. Most have been bred in captivity though, so if we were to release all pets and other domestic animals into the wild chaos would ensue, and not just for us. Animals that have been born and raised under human influence will most likely fail to survive.

 

Take dogs that have been abandoned for example. My family have a few dogs that have been rescued from the streets by the RSPCA and other animal charities. We've seen the pictures of what living 'wild' on the streets for a month or two can do to an animal. It's not pretty.

 

I'm 100% sure if you were to ask any three of our rescue dogs if they would prefer to stay in a nice warm house, get fed every day, gets lots of cuddles and love, plently of clean water and other friendly dogs (and some cats) to play with or go back to living on the streets, the answer would be to stay with us.

 

As for snakes not knowing or feeling love, I really doubt that is true. If you have been around an animal long enough you start to be able to read its moods, like when they are happy, sad or annoyed. I don't own a snake, but I dare say someone who actually does can tell if their snake/s love them or not.

[Disturbedchic]

That and the alligators seem to be enjoying their new snacks.

Actually with a Burmese python it can just as easily be the other way around...

 

A Burmese that tried to eat too big of an alligator and didn't end up too well for the Burmese (somewhat graphic)

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...oneatsgator.jpg

 

Another Burmese easily doing in a smaller gator

http://kpbs.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com...7d38a6025dcea0e

 

When it comes down to alligator vs burmese it just depends on whose bigger at that moment. There is no clear cut winner in that match.

 

 

I would support a location specific ban on large pythons/constrictors. You can't make people not be stupid with their pets and invasive species can devastate ecosystems beyond repair so there's too much at stake to continue to allow them in areas they can live in andbreed.

[JaziandCo]

Actually with a Burmese python it can just as easily be the other way around...

 

A Burmese that tried to eat too big of an alligator and didn't end up too well for the Burmese (somewhat graphic)

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...oneatsgator.jpg

 

Another Burmese easily doing in a smaller gator

http://kpbs.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com...7d38a6025dcea0e

 

When it comes down to alligator vs burmese it just depends on whose bigger at that moment. There is no clear cut winner in that match.

Mmmmmn, delicious snack The two predators are in some pretty close competition with each other, but the alligators seem to be doing alright all things considered.

 

I would support a location specific ban on large pythons/constrictors. You can't make people not be stupid with their pets and invasive species can devastate ecosystems beyond repair so there's too much at stake to continue to allow them in areas they can live in andbreed.

This, though, can be applied to any and all pet animal. How many people have farm cats that they do not spay or neuter that remain outdoors their entire lives? How much damage does that do on an environment? Should we ban all cats because people can't be smart and get their cats fixed?

 

I'd like legislation to make it harder for first-time owners to get a large snake, to keep people who think that adorable retic hatchling is going to stay 3ft long from getting it without understanding how large they will be and what sort of enclosure they need. Ideally everyone should research their pets before they go out and buy them, but of course we can't trust common sense to everyone.

[Wookieinmashoo]

This would be like me going into the dog thread and telling people its cruel to keep dogs because they are meant to live in outer space, eating asteroids and flying for lightyears.

 

Wait, dogs don't already do this?

 

@MindsEye: I really have no whose freedom you are talking about. If it's pet owners then yeah, a few idiots will ruin it for the rest of the world, which are why most regulations are in place to begin with.

[Disturbedchic]

This, though, can be applied to any and all pet animal. How many people have farm cats that they do not spay or neuter that remain outdoors their entire lives? How much damage does that do on an environment? Should we ban all cats because people can't be smart and get their cats fixed?

 

I'd like legislation to make it harder for first-time owners to get a large snake, to keep people who think that adorable retic hatchling is going to stay 3ft long from getting it without understanding how large they will be and what sort of enclosure they need. Ideally everyone should research their pets before they go out and buy them, but of course we can't trust common sense to everyone.

Yes, but some animals have a greater ability to damage the natural balance of an ecosystem than others and I would absolutely support a ban on cats in a location if they were determined to be too destructive to an area to the point where native species were being wiped out and I have three cats of my own. But right now while free roaming cats do cause damage its not to the point of ecosystem collapse in most areas whereas large pythons like the Burmese could tip the already fragile everglades into collapse on the level that Snakeheads or Asian Carp have done.

 

I know lots of monster fish keepers used to get and covet Snakeheads but those are also banned now and rightfully so.

 

Our desire to own and aquire certain creatures does not override our obligation to protect our natural areas and native species. Once an invasive creature is found to out compete native species to the point of possible ecosystem destruction than I think protecting the natural balance is a greater issue that superceeds individual rights.

 

I don't believe the slippery slope arguement is valid. Animals being allowed as pets have been evaulated, banned, and than unbanned all the time. Sometimes restrictions are eased and sometimes they're tightened based on the need the situation. No one is going to suggest banning any animal unless it poses a significant health or environmental hazard. In this case they're evaluating the merits of the ownership of certain snakes and thats where the debate is staying.

[JaziandCo]

Except people have banned Pit Bulls when facts have proven that there's less danger from the dogs themselves as there's danger in not caring for and controlling animals properly. Feral cats have completely wiped out endangered, now extinct, species of birds. Roaming dogs AND cats have attacked people and their pets. No one wants to ban all dog or cat ownership, and those who want to ban certain breeds of dog are met with the same opposition. To my knowledge, the feral Burm population has not driven anything to extinction as of yet.

 

I'm not using the slippery slope argument, I'm saying the reasons to ban pythons can be applied to nearly every pet animal in existence and therefore should not make a special case just because they're not our furry cuddley pet cats, dogs, rabbits, etc. Heck, look at the feral pig problem in the South, but no one wants to ban all pigs even though those creatures can live much farther north than they are now and there are rumors that they're migrating up to the northern states. What makes reptiles so different?

 

No one would have to protect the natural balance if people were smart with their animal purchases and didn't let the creatures roam free, or didn't think it was kinder to release their animals into the wild. If people controlled their pets and spayed/neutered them where applicable. This is what regulations are for, not bans.

 

In addition, the snakes in question cannot easily survive outside of southern Flordia. Why must it be a national ban, instead of just tightening the laws in Florida? A Burmese python would have to have super powers to survive up here considering to own one you're never supposed to have the temperature drop below 70º. Here in PA, the entire winter and most of spring and fall are in the 60s or lower. Why must they be banned /here/, where they can't survive?

[RheaZen]

*Reads Jazi's post*

 

*Images of snakes infesting the steam tunnels*

 

o_o

 

Anyways, I feel like this thread title is a bit misleading. I was all geared up to talk about my guinea pig.

 

/goes away

[Maiden]

I was also flying to Colorado and was reading a magazine and it said that you can no longer ship snakes by plane.

I am a terrible person. My very first thought was, "I'm tired of all these mf'ing snakes on this mf'ing plane!"

 

@Wookie: Yes, I was referring to the freedom of pet owners. But it's true for almost any area of life - a few idiots will ruin it for the rest of us.

[StarSea]

Definetally singing!

You should see me with any kind of animal! May it be adult bears to giant boa constrictors to a pup to a mouse to even a fly! I love them all no matter why!.. Talking about why, why are they planing on taking away snakes? I don't have one myself, but I've held plenty in my 13 years of life so far... Yes, I did hold a giant boa constrictor about four or five years ago. Now, if they are planing on taking away dogs or cats or anything, you better keep me away from them or the monster might come out. It's been building up for these 13 years and it's waiting for the perfect time and place to strike someone.

[Stunningfire]

D: That's horrible. *disapproves*

[wonton55912]

I have a small snake. Would they take that away too?

*hides snake*

[sparkle10184]

The petition linked in the OP has expired. I made a new one:

Please Sign!

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I don't see how a ban on pythons would restrict other types of snakes?

That being said, government is good at making good plans go wrong, so what sounds like "hey let's keep 10-foot pythons from being released into the everglades" will probably become anything but that. Kinda neutral on this--I do like snakes, but all the idiocy regarding dumb people buying ones they can't handle has to stop. Perhaps there could be a license regarding getting the big boys...?

[~Kat~]

I am all for banning the species of the big snakes like giant boa constrictors. look at what is happening in Florida. All those big snakes that are in the everglades and they are killing alligators and preying on people and their pets. You do have the irresponsible people who can not deal with them anymore and let them go. If they start breeding with other boa's, you will have an even more aggressive snake. I also think ordinary people should not be able to have posionous snakes that the USA does not have like Cobra's. Mamba's etc etc.

 

I am also against people owning species we do not have here like pirahna's, as people let those go as well.

 

Below is one such story.

 

Description:Beneath the surface of a small Staten Island pond, a predator was poised to pounce. Crabbe and his sister Kaitlin came face to face with it while fishing with their grandpa last week. A fisherman of 50 years, Grandpa Crabbe knew right away and told his granddaughter, "No honey, its not a sunfish! Don't go near it!" Native only to South America, what the Crabbe family thought they caught was a pirahna, also known as a wolf of the water.

 

http://www.aol.com/video/kids-catch-piranh...26pLid%3D205399

 

I have had snakes in my house like a Rainbow Boa, a beautiful snake at that.

 

I understand that my pets are animals, but I to love mine like they were my children. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

Animals give people whose children have left the nest, old people, sick people and many others a reason to go on living. Animals are a wonderful destressor for humans.

Edited September 14, 2012 by ~Kat~