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Sanders is actually somewhat left-wing by international standards, which makes him practically unique in this country.

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Welcome to the American politics thread where you can talk about American politics, which includes the current President Donald Trump, without taking up space in the Corona Virus (COVID 19) thread.

 

President Trump has been tested for the COVID 19 and he has tested negative, paving the road for four more years of this beloved and well spoken President to be the leader and champion of the United States. :)

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I am a little questionable about that? :'D I mean, he supposedly got tested, wasn't showing any signs of symptoms, but several others around him, who have showed some symptoms, have tested positive. So maybe he was negative last week, but could still come up positive three days from now.

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Posted (edited)

Just to be clear, the political discussion in the Coronavirus thread was relevant to the topic since Covid-19 and politics are linked based on each country's response to the pandemic. The posts relating to Trump or any other politician can still occur in that thread, provided it relates to coronavirus and government responses. As such, the posts about politics in that thread will remain. Off-topic political discussion in that thread will not be allowed. 

Edited by purpledragonclaw

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At this point I think it is anybody's guess. He shook hands with at least 2 people who later tested positive for COVID 19 and were quarantined. He doesn't have any symptoms and he is still as energetic as the Energizer Bunny. The funniest thing about that scenario is that he was shaking hands with everyone, and then later that day he told his staff to stop shaking hands to prevent the spread of the disease. He must have some kind of immunity.

 

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Very interesting articles in the Guardian these days:

 

"Coronavirus is revealing how broken America’s economy really is - We are told by everyone from the United Nations to Donald Trump that the US is a ‘developed’ economy. The statistics suggest otherwise"

Read here: https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2020/apr/06/coronavirus-american-reaction-economy-covid-19

 

"Profit over people, cost over care: America's broken healthcare exposed by virus - There were 27.9 million people without health insurance in 2018, and record-high unemployment will increase that figure by millions"

Read here: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/16/profit-over-people-cost-over-care-americas-broken-healthcare-exposed-by-virus

 

"US for-profit healthcare sector cuts thousands of jobs as pandemic rages - Health workers are facing layoffs, furloughs and cuts to salaries and schedules in response to declines in revenue"

Read here: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/14/healthcare-job-cuts-coronavirus-worker-layoffs

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Even amid the coronavirus pandemic, where the entire world is suffering loss of life and their economies are fast becoming crippled, it is politics as usual for some people. Every four years there is an election for the Office of the President. And every four years, only one person can win the election and become the President of the United States. Usually the losing side whines and cries for a few months and then it is business as usual. But not this time. The whiners and criers have done nothing to make America great again for the past four years, but instead have tried to undermine the lawful President because they are sore losers.

 

They still can't believe that a German-American businessman, who is not a politician but an American patriot,  was America's choice to lead the nation. They make fun of his appearance, of his skin color, of the color of his hair, his speech patterns, his Christian religion, and of his family, mocking his super model wife, his accomplished older children, and his little son. It is pathetic. It is so against the grain of everything that America stands for.

 

There may not be light at the end of the coronavirus tunnel. Infrastructures may no longer exist, companies and corporations may never be able to recover, people may never have steady jobs again. Life as we knew it may be gone forever. A study being done at Harvard University has warned us that we may have to lock down intermittently until 2022. But it might be forever if a vaccine is not found. But are people worried about how to put the world back together again when and if this crisis is ever over?, no, they are worried about how they can blame the President Donald Trump for everything that happens in America and in the rest of the world. It is just American politics as usual. Nothing new.

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The main reason to blame him is his incompetence and stupidity. Imagine - early on - trying to BUY Greenland - a country in its own right - from another country entirely. And then having a snit and refusing to visit Denmark - as he had planned - because Denmark wouldn't sell it to him. You have been ill served in your President. you needed a leader rather than a "patriot". But you elected him.The rest of the world will probably be able to heal itself with a degree of pain - it won't be pleasant, but we recovered from the 30s. I hope we have learned something about the dangers of globalisation, and the need for co-operation rather than "patriotism" when all's said and done.

 

I don't care where Trump was born, what his hair or his religion are like. I do care about the damage he is doing. But at least very few countries take the USA seriously any more, which has reduced the damage he is capable of outside the States. He will not be of any use when the world is trying to put itself together again - and that is something I do worry about. But sadly the USA will have more problems than most countries, if he lifts restrictions too early.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

@StormBirdRising

I'm intrigued that you think people have a problem with Mr.Trump due to externalities like appearance etc, but you do not see that the problems are actually substantial like the facts that

 

Mr.Trump continually lies, makes wrong statements, contradicts himself and twists the truth (I know you don't like to read up factual links that don't go along with your convictions, but Wikipedia has a nice overview complete with sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracity_of_statements_by_Donald_Trump

 

Mr.Trump ruins the US by dismantling all structures out of spite that were built by former President Barack Obama

 - like dismantling the White House National Security Council Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense which was set up to prepare for future pandemics,

- like trying to abolish Obamacare, thus leaving even more US Americans without any health cover

- Leaving the Paris Climate Agreements

- He negated the Iran Nuclear Deal

- dozens of further acts one can read up here

Sozrce: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-rolling-back-obama-rules/?utm_term=.613e3e3e70c2

 

Mr.Trump cut Health, Housing, Other Assistance for Low- and Moderate-Income Families while giving tax presents to his rich backers

Source: https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/trump-budget-deeply-cuts-health-housing-other-assistance-for-low-and

 

Mr.Trump ruins the environment by abolishing numerous kinds of environmental protections either personally or via appointing various industrial and business lobbyists:

- The Trump administration announced that they will roll back safety measures that regulate offshore drilling operations.

- The U.S. Senate confirmed David Bernhardt as secretary of the interior who has a long history as a lobbyist for the energy and agribusiness sectors

- President Trump signed two executive orders that will smooth the path for companies to build oil and gas pipelines and limit the tools states have to block them.

- President Donald Trump issued a new permit for the Keystone XL Pipeline as an exercise of presidential authority that is not subject to judicial review under the Administrative Procedure Act despite environmental issues

- The Trump administration announced it would be dismantling the 2015 Sage Grouse Conservation Plans, which had been negotiated by many stakeholders from industry to conservation groups.

- Andrew Wheeler was made acting EPA director by Trump and has has issued a series of controversial environmental rollbacks. (Wheeler is a former coal lobbyist)

- Earlier this week (Dec 2019), the Washington Post revealed that President Donald Trump quietly issued an executive order to increase logging of forests on federal land

- The Trump administration has scaled back regulations and reducing the Environmental Protection Agency's legal authority to prosecute organizations that have violated environmental standards.

- The Trump administration rolled back another Obama-era climate rule when it announced Thursday it will lift some restrictions on greenhouse gas emissions from coal power plants.

- Five oil and gas companies have been given the green light to use seismic airgun blasts to search for lucrative oil and gas deposits that could be buried in the sea floor from New Jersey to Florida.

- Okay, there are many more, but I'm frankly too lazy to put them all here. They can be found in the source below

Source: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/03/how-trump-is-changing-science-environment/

 

And this is only a small part - I could go about his trade wars, his blatant nepotism, his destabilising of the Middle East, his criminal record, his climate change denial, his bankruptcies, his support of far-right groups, and many more things, but I frankly don't have the time right now. Maybe someone else can add these things with sources.

 

Edited by Astreya

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3 minutes ago, Astreya said:

@StormBirdRising

I'm intrigued that you think people have a problem with Mr.Trump due to externalities like appearance etc, but you do not see that the problems are actually substantial like the facts that

 

 

 

Really, even in this forum he has been referred to as "orange man" and "orange thing". If that is not a racist statement then I don't know what is.

He was elected because he is an American patriot and he is not a politician. He puts America first, and for this American patriot, that is a good thing. He is the leader of the United States, not the world.

He doesn't want to be a "global leader", and we don't want him to be a "global leader" because we need him to lead this nation.

I don't know of the other world leaders, because all over the world, in every newspaper, television reports, and all over the internet, I never see very much news of anyone but the American President. It is as if the whole world wants him to be a god, to fix everything and save everyone. But he is just the American President and he is doing a great job.

 

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@StormBirdRising

I think you will find that I never referred to him by his exterior and usually always by "Mr.Trump".

 

You don't address the facts I listed either, by the way.

 

I think you might want to revise your idea that he is a "Patriot" if you review how he is going against the US constitution and how he is dismantling the checks and balances: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/04/how-to-destroy-a-government/606793/

And yes, I would expect you to read the article as I think that George Packer nicely articulated the problem and the situation and I don't really have to repeat all of it.

 

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7 minutes ago, StormBirdRising said:

racist

I didn't know that "orange" is racist. Learn something new every day!

 

So.

In Germany, the chancellor isn't elected directly either. Instead, we vote for a party and the winning party defines who'll become the country's leader for another 4 years.

You see, I didn't vote for Angela Merkel's party *ever* and I never would, but I do admit that she's doing her job, whether I agree with her decisions or not. She is actually WORKING.

 

Your current president, on the other hand, is NOT doing that. He may fashion himself a business man, but the only business he is good at is avoiding to pay taxes and spending other people's money. A true business man would actually listen to people who know better than him and base his decisions on actual facts, and not have people like you later declare his failings "alternative facts". Up to now, I'm still waiting for him to actually do his job instead of performing a permanent election campaign for himself. He destroys, dismantles, disassembles and abolishes useful things that other people worked hard to create (and he makes satirists all around the world jobless.)

I don't care about his family, his religion or whatever else you've listed up there, and orange is actually my favourite colour.

However, I have yet to see him do ANYTHING USEFUL.

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Those are NOT facts, they are editorializations and opinions.

 

The Affordable Health Care was a joke, my medical insurance went from $400.00 to $1400.00 a month. I don't want the federal government to oversee my health care. It was a mess. As soon as Donald Trump became President I went back to medical insurance that just gave me what I wanted, not what the government wanted me to have. Under the Affordable Health Care Act it was against the law not to have medical insurance. The only people who benefitted were the insurance companies and the federal government because the feds needed to hire thousands of people to manage it. It was a nightmare, and it had no place in a capitalist democracy, where the federal government is supposed to have limited power over our everyday lives.

 

This is America, this is not Communist China, where the government controls every aspect of its citizens lives.

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Posted (edited)

What's the problem with it being against the law not to have a medical insurance? In Germany health insurance is mandatory for workers - and guess what? Here people don't have to fear to get broke when they become ill, other than in the US.

 

Has it occurred to you that the horrendous numbers of Covid-19 infections in the US are partly due to people that were not able to afford going to the doctors and get tested or who were not allowed to take sick leave by their employers because you have practically no workers rights in the US?

 

Here: "Millions of Americans – as many as 25% of the population – are delaying getting medical help because of skyrocketing costs"

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/07/americans-healthcare-medical-costs

 

Edited by Astreya

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13 minutes ago, Astreya said:

What's the problem with it being against the law not to have a medical insurance? In Germany health insurance is mandatory for workers - and guess what? Here people don't have to fear to get broke when they become ill, other than in the US.

 

Has it occurred to you that the horrendous numbers of Covid-19 infections in the US are partly due to people that were not able to afford going to the doctors and get tested or who were not allowed to take sick leave by their employers because you have practically no workers rights in the US?

 

 

 

I travel a lot for my job. I have been to Germany many times. It was always fabulous, but there is no comparison between the US and Germany. Germany is approx 137,847 square miles and the US is 3,791,400 square miles. Germany is the size of one of our states, what works great in Germany won't work in the United States. The Affordable Care Act was a failure, and it was bankrupt when Donald Trump became President, because the government doesn't generate any money, it spends it. The money comes from taxpayers. I had to pay more than 4 times what I was paying for medical care for the worst coverage I ever had. The federal government isn't designed to provide medical coverage or medical care. We are a democratic republic, but more than that we are considered to be a capitalist democracy.

I don't know how anyone can think they are an expert on medical care in the United States if they don't even live here. I wouldn't even profess to give advice about the inner workings and the infrastructure of a country I don't live in.

 

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Posted (edited)

One doesn't have to be an expert on medical care in the United States to read the numbers.

- You have 2.9 hospital beds for 1000 people (compared to 11.5 in South Korea).

- You have one of the smallest numbers of medical doctors per 1000 people from all "developed economies".

- You have one of the highest numbers of maternal deaths per 1000 live births in all "developed economies".

- You have one of the lowest life expectancies in all "developed economies".

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2020/apr/06/coronavirus-american-reaction-economy-covid-19

 

Edited by Astreya
I really hate typos

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

 

Really, even in this forum he has been referred to as "orange man" and "orange thing". If that is not a racist statement then I don't know what is.

 

I wasn't aware of any race with orange skin. It is fairly obvious that he uses tanning lotion - and not very competently. I absolutely do not care - but it isn't a good look. His choice.

 

Quote

He was elected because he is an American patriot and he is not a politician. He puts America first, and for this American patriot, that is a good thing. He is the leader of the United States, not the world.

He doesn't want to be a "global leader", and we don't want him to be a "global leader" because we need him to lead this nation.

I don't know of the other world leaders, because all over the world, in every newspaper, television reports, and all over the internet, I never see very much news of anyone but the American President. It is as if the whole world wants him to be a god, to fix everything and save everyone. But he is just the American President and he is doing a great job.

 

 

The whole world wants him to be good at his job. Sadly he isn't. But he thinks he is a global leader and wants everyone else to do as he wants. (see under trying to get one country to sell him another country.)

 

59 minutes ago, StormBirdRising said:

 

I travel a lot for my job. I have been to Germany many times. It was always fabulous, but there is no comparison between the US and Germany. Germany is approx 137,847 square miles and the US is 3,791,400 square miles. Germany is the size of one of our states, what works great in Germany won't work in the United States.

 

Size isn't everything. But universal healthcare could work fine in the States if there were the will to set it up.

 

Quote

 

The Affordable Care Act was a failure, and it was bankrupt when Donald Trump became President, because the government doesn't generate any money, it spends it. The money comes from taxpayers. I had to pay more than 4 times what I was paying for medical care for the worst coverage I ever had. The federal government isn't designed to provide medical coverage or medical care. We are a democratic republic, but more than that we are considered to be a capitalist democracy.

I don't know how anyone can think they are an expert on medical care in the United States if they don't even live here. I wouldn't even profess to give advice about the inner workings and the infrastructure of a country I don't live in.

 

I know people who have lost their homes as a result of the lack of medical care for the people who are JUST over the limit for claiming medicare. Medicaid - apologies. (Never mind all those whose insurance says just this far and no further.) I knew someone who died of cancer about a week after finding out  for sure that she HAD it. No healthcare. So she just dealt with the symptoms til she was quite literally at deaths door. She left behind 2 high-school aged children. She was young. She went to the Emergency Room with a bad mammogram - she had managed to get that as part of a cancer charity's screening programme. She was told  to go to see her family doctor.  It was not IMMEDIATELY life threatening, so they wouldn't do a thing. As in, if she walked back out the door she wouldn't be dead tomorrow. Just in a few months/years if it's not taken care of....

 

That is not OK and is something that doesn't happen in any other country I know of. And I am Canadian and have spent time in the US and have many American friends. None of whom is happy with the current situation. The only reason the AMA didn't work was the way insurance companies and individual states put up barriers against it. If it were possible - which, sadly, it isn't in the US - for the president to say OK, national, tax funded healthcare, free at the point do service, for every American citizen, no gripes from insurance companies or their shareholders...  - but it cannot happen because of the way the country is set up.

Edited by Fuzzbucket

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11 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I know people who have lost their homes as a result of the lack of medical care for the people who are JUST over the limit for claiming medicare. (Never mind all those whose insurance says just this far and no further.) I knew someone who died of cancer about a week after finding out  for sure that she HAD it. No healthcare. So she just dealt with the symptoms til she was quite literally at deaths door. She left behind 2 high-school aged children. She was young. She went to the Emergency Room with a bad mammogram - she had managed to get that as part of a cancer charity's screening programme. She was told  to go to see her family doctor.  It was not IMMEDIATELY life threatening, so they wouldn't do a thing. As in, if she walked back out the door she wouldn't be dead tomorrow. Just in a few months/years if it's not taken care of....

 

 

 

Medicare doesn't work that way.  Perhaps you meant Medicaid?  It is sometimes hard to keep them straight.  Medicare is given to all citizens who are age 65 or who have regular disability.  There is another kind of disability that does not get Medicare, but they do get Medicaid.  

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14 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

I know people who have lost their homes as a result of the lack of medical care for the people who are JUST over the limit for claiming medicare. (Never mind all those whose insurance says just this far and no further.) I knew someone who died of cancer about a week after finding out  for sure that she HAD it. No healthcare. So she just dealt with the symptoms til she was quite literally at deaths door. She left behind 2 high-school aged children. She was young. She went to the Emergency Room with a bad mammogram - she had managed to get that as part of a cancer charity's screening programme. She was told  to go to see her family doctor.  It was not IMMEDIATELY life threatening, so they wouldn't do a thing. As in, if she walked back out the door she wouldn't be dead tomorrow. Just in a few months/years if it's not taken care of....

 

That is not OK and is something that doesn't happen in any other country I know of. And I am Canadian and have spent time in the US and have many American friends. None of whom is happy with the current situation. The only reason the AMA didn't work was the way insurance companies and individual states put up barriers against it. If it were possible - which, sadly, it isn't in the US - for the president to say OK, national, tax funded healthcare, free at the point do service, for every American citizen, no gripes from insurance companies or their shareholders...  - but it cannot happen because of the way the country is set up.

You have stated that before, that you knew someone who had lost their home because they couldn't pay their medical bill. I am an attorney and I work with about 50 other attorneys. None of us can figure out how that could have happened in the United States. No judge would allow a doctor or medical facility to put a lien on a patient's residence. The only way it could happen is if the patient put their home up as collateral before the procedure, and that's a long shot, and that doesn't even make any sense because anyone, even if you are not here legally, can be treated in the emergency room without insurance, and then get Medicare or Medicaid or whatever is available in that state or jurisdication for the required medical treatment. And I've never heard of it.

We have free screenings here for cancer, whether you have insurance or not, and follow up treatments also.

 

I have met many Canadians over the years who have come to the US to get surgeries that were deemed "not medically necessary" like joint replacements and hysterectomies. One woman told me she was a runner, but would have had to wait over a year for the replacement and then would have had to go 1000 miles from home to a designated provider. She told me it was easier to come to the US, and pay for the surgery out of pocket, and a 2 way airfare and staying at a rehab center to recover than to travel across Canada, and have to wait a year to do it. I've met many Canadians who told me the same thing. Can you imagine that happening in the US? We want we want when we want it. That's why we have our own medical coverage.

 

Another reason it won't work is because no one I know wants the government to take medical decisions out of our hands. This government is just too big to manage the medical care for approx 350,000,000 people.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Classycal said:

 

Medicare doesn't work that way.  Perhaps you meant Medicaid?  It is sometimes hard to keep them straight.  Medicare is given to all citizens who are age 65 or who have regular disability.  There is another kind of disability that does not get Medicare, but they do get Medicaid.  

My apologies - edited.

 

I am not about to give personal details of a friend, but while I realise the current administration says the New York Tines is fake news - here's an article that says it CAN happen:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/upshot/lost-jobs-houses-savings-even-insured-often-face-crushing-medical-debt.html

 

I had a hysterectomy in Canada. It wasn't a problem. I also know people from the States who came to Canada and paid for their own care as it was so much cheaper than in the States. If my Ohio attorney friend weren't ill herself (she has cover, luckily) I'd ask her to join us. She has dealt with people whose homes were under threat. People who work 40 hours a week at $8 an hour - those nice people who pump your gas, serve you in the 7-11 - desperate people who can't even take time out to be sick... No sick pay, of course. And no unemployment, if you have a job and are "just" off sick. A friend of mine currently recovering from a bilateral mastectomy is considering going back to work before she should, for fear of becoming homeless - and that's without her having to think medical bills, as luckily she's on VA. The States is a rich country. This should not be allowed to happen.

 

I have no issues with waiting for treatment that isn't for a life threatening condition. though. But you do you - I realise that the US is perfect in your eyes, as is your POTUS. Good luck.

Edited by Fuzzbucket

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Posted (edited)

10 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

Even amid the coronavirus pandemic, where the entire world is suffering loss of life and their economies are fast becoming crippled, it is politics as usual for some people. Every four years there is an election for the Office of the President. And every four years, only one person can win the election and become the President of the United States. Usually the losing side whines and cries for a few months and then it is business as usual. But not this time. The whiners and criers have done nothing to make America great again for the past four years, but instead have tried to undermine the lawful President because they are sore losers.

 

They still can't believe that a German-American businessman, who is not a politician but an American patriot,  was America's choice to lead the nation. They make fun of his appearance, of his skin color, of the color of his hair, his speech patterns, his Christian religion, and of his family, mocking his super model wife, his accomplished older children, and his little son. It is pathetic. It is so against the grain of everything that America stands for.

 

There may not be light at the end of the coronavirus tunnel. Infrastructures may no longer exist, companies and corporations may never be able to recover, people may never have steady jobs again. Life as we knew it may be gone forever. A study being done at Harvard University has warned us that we may have to lock down intermittently until 2022. But it might be forever if a vaccine is not found. But are people worried about how to put the world back together again when and if this crisis is ever over?, no, they are worried about how they can blame the President Donald Trump for everything that happens in America and in the rest of the world. It is just American politics as usual. Nothing new.

 

I'm not playing politics when I criticize Trump. I don't play politics. I call things as I see them, I don't care if the politician has a D, R, I, or G by their name. This isn't "whining or crying" which I saw a lot of with the last two previous presidents, this is an alarming situation where a failed businessman-turned reality TV star has become president and is clearly not cut out for it. And that "lawful president" has been impeached. Seems to me that wouldn't happen had he followed the law. Just like Bill Clinton and Richard Nixon. 

 

"American patriot"?? He dodged the draft multiple times to avoid serving in Vietnam! He avoids paying taxes! His current wife's family came here through chain migration, which he now rails against, while never producing Melania's papers. He's currently trying to invoke a never-used part of the Constitution to ram through appointments without Congressional approval! There's nothing patriotic about this man who somehow managed to bankrupt a casino.

 

The American response to this pandemic is on Trump. He's president. The end. And I guarantee you that if this were Obama, or any politician with a "D" as their political affiliation, many of the people screaming their love and defense of Trump would be screaming the opposite. Remember Obama's tan suit? His eating grey poupon? His not wearing a lapel pin? I remember the "scandals" those produced. Meanwhile Trump doesn't even know the words to our national anthem and I hear crickets from those who screamed about Obama's failures.

 

9 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

 

Really, even in this forum he has been referred to as "orange man" and "orange thing". If that is not a racist statement then I don't know what is.

He was elected because he is an American patriot and he is not a politician. He puts America first, and for this American patriot, that is a good thing. He is the leader of the United States, not the world.

He doesn't want to be a "global leader", and we don't want him to be a "global leader" because we need him to lead this nation.

I don't know of the other world leaders, because all over the world, in every newspaper, television reports, and all over the internet, I never see very much news of anyone but the American President. It is as if the whole world wants him to be a god, to fix everything and save everyone. But he is just the American President and he is doing a great job.

 

 

It took a lot of willpower not to laugh outright at Trump being mocked for his spray tan being "racist". He can wash that off. Racism isn't about a fashion choice, it's about the color of your skin, the color you were born with and can't change. It's about judging someone without knowing them solely based on their perceived skin color. I've experienced racism. I've seen others experience it. What Trump experiences is criticism, not racism. Using the word "racist" cheapens the effects of what racism truly is, and undermines it. You don't understand what racism is. At all.

 

9 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

Those are NOT facts, they are editorializations and opinions.

 

The Affordable Health Care was a joke, my medical insurance went from $400.00 to $1400.00 a month. I don't want the federal government to oversee my health care. It was a mess. As soon as Donald Trump became President I went back to medical insurance that just gave me what I wanted, not what the government wanted me to have. Under the Affordable Health Care Act it was against the law not to have medical insurance. The only people who benefitted were the insurance companies and the federal government because the feds needed to hire thousands of people to manage it. It was a nightmare, and it had no place in a capitalist democracy, where the federal government is supposed to have limited power over our everyday lives.

 

This is America, this is not Communist China, where the government controls every aspect of its citizens lives.

 

Fellow American here, those are facts. Just because you disagree with them does not make them false. 

 

The ACA didn't fix our broken health care system, and it certainly made some aspects worse (mandatory insurance, are you kidding me???), but it definitely made some improvements. People with pre-existing conditions could get their treatments covered. There's one. 

 

I saw a great quote the other day: "Capitalism only works with socialism as a safety net." We have so many forms of socialism in this country that a lot of people seem to have no problem with. Bailouts for corporations? That's socialist. Medicare and social security? Those are socialist programs too. We've never had full capitalism in this country, more like capitalism for the poor and middle class, socialism for the rich. 

 

8 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

 

I travel a lot for my job. I have been to Germany many times. It was always fabulous, but there is no comparison between the US and Germany. Germany is approx 137,847 square miles and the US is 3,791,400 square miles. Germany is the size of one of our states, what works great in Germany won't work in the United States. The Affordable Care Act was a failure, and it was bankrupt when Donald Trump became President, because the government doesn't generate any money, it spends it. The money comes from taxpayers. I had to pay more than 4 times what I was paying for medical care for the worst coverage I ever had. The federal government isn't designed to provide medical coverage or medical care. We are a democratic republic, but more than that we are considered to be a capitalist democracy.

I don't know how anyone can think they are an expert on medical care in the United States if they don't even live here. I wouldn't even profess to give advice about the inner workings and the infrastructure of a country I don't live in.

 

 

I want a source for the ACA being bankrupt when Trump became president, please. And we're not truly capitalist, as I just mentioned. We like to CLAIM we are, but we're really not. 

 

As for that last paragraph, I don't see why you have to live in a country to be able to give advice on its workings. I mean, we've started or helped in wars in pretty much every continent in the world even though we don't live there. We've overthrown rulers in other countries even though we don't live there. Trump frequently tells other world leaders they do things wrong, even though we don't live there. That argument is hollow, we live in a globalized economic system.

 

7 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

You have stated that before, that you knew someone who had lost their home because they couldn't pay their medical bill. I am an attorney and I work with about 50 other attorneys. None of us can figure out how that could have happened in the United States. No judge would allow a doctor or medical facility to put a lien on a patient's residence. The only way it could happen is if the patient put their home up as collateral before the procedure, and that's a long shot, and that doesn't even make any sense because anyone, even if you are not here legally, can be treated in the emergency room without insurance, and then get Medicare or Medicaid or whatever is available in that state or jurisdication for the required medical treatment. And I've never heard of it.

We have free screenings here for cancer, whether you have insurance or not, and follow up treatments also.

 

I have met many Canadians over the years who have come to the US to get surgeries that were deemed "not medically necessary" like joint replacements and hysterectomies. One woman told me she was a runner, but would have had to wait over a year for the replacement and then would have had to go 1000 miles from home to a designated provider. She told me it was easier to come to the US, and pay for the surgery out of pocket, and a 2 way airfare and staying at a rehab center to recover than to travel across Canada, and have to wait a year to do it. I've met many Canadians who told me the same thing. Can you imagine that happening in the US? We want we want when we want it. That's why we have our own medical coverage.

 

Another reason it won't work is because no one I know wants the government to take medical decisions out of our hands. This government is just too big to manage the medical care for approx 350,000,000 people.

 

The life of an attorney, in terms of income level, is not comparable to someone who works retail, picks crops, or is in the restaurant industry. You sound like you have a middle-class background. Do you have friends or know people outside of that upper echelon? Talk to some homeless people. Talk to your cashier and bagger at your grocery store. Talk to your waiter. Talk to your bank teller. Talk to your postal/FedEx/UPS driver. It can happen, and it happens all the time. And as for that emergency room line, you can definitely be turned away from the ER if you can't pay. 

 

So by your last paragaph's logic you'd be opting out of Medicare once you reach the age if that was possible? Because that's government insurance. This government isn't too big to handle medical care, and you especially can't tell me that with the current abortion war being waged at all government levels right now. The government, if it chose, could handle it, they choose not to, and many citizens have been convinced it's not feasible. 

Edited by purpledragonclaw

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3 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

 

Really, even in this forum he has been referred to as "orange man" and "orange thing". If that is not a racist statement then I don't know what is.

He was elected because he is an American patriot and he is not a politician. He puts America first, and for this American patriot, that is a good thing. He is the leader of the United States, not the world.

He doesn't want to be a "global leader", and we don't want him to be a "global leader" because we need him to lead this nation.

I don't know of the other world leaders, because all over the world, in every newspaper, television reports, and all over the internet, I never see very much news of anyone but the American President. It is as if the whole world wants him to be a god, to fix everything and save everyone. But he is just the American President and he is doing a great job.

 

Excuse me while I spend the next hour laughing hysterically at your audacity.

...

Okay, now let me rip this apart, piece by piece.

 

Racism? As if! You want to see the racism spewed at a US President?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_threats_against_Barack_Obama

https://www.thoughtco.com/blatant-acts-of-racism-against-obama-2834896

Google search link to images: warning, some depict lynching and the use of the N-word

How about racism towards the First Lady?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/27/michelle-obama-wounded-racism-first-lady

 

He was elected because the Electoral College, combined with Republican Gerrymandering (plus several more tactics to commit voter suppression), voted in the Rich, Super Unqualified, Racist, Misogynistic, Xenophobic, Rapist, Child Molester. More than half of the US population voted for Hillary, meaning the Majority. Meaning, Trump didn't gather as much support as Hillary did.
He is most certainly not a patriot. Not when he dodged the draft 5 times (because of a doctored/false report about bone spurs). He is not a patriot when he has continuously discriminated against every POC and women, most especially Blacks and Hispanics. He is not a patriot who "puts America first" when all he cares about are big payouts for big corporations that don't take care of their workers, when he lauds Putin and other vile "leaders" while bullying US allies. 

Sure, he's the US President, but the way he attacks and ridicules other countries and tells them how "wrong" they are, tells them "they should do this, instead" just screams that he believes he should be the leader of the world. And the way his supporters flock to that belief/behavior...!

The media is covering Trump so frequently because Trump keeps screwing up so much! He's dangerous! He believes he's God and untouchable! Everyone else wants him gone! 

Edited by ValidEmotions

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15 hours ago, purpledragonclaw said:

The life of an attorney, in terms of income level, is not comparable to someone who works retail, picks crops, or is in the restaurant industry. You sound like you have a middle-class background. Do you have friends or know people outside of that upper echelon? Talk to some homeless people. Talk to your cashier and bagger at your grocery store. Talk to your waiter. Talk to your bank teller. Talk to your postal/FedEx/UPS driver.

 

 

 

That is really a very condescending commentary, to assert that people like grocery workers, delivery drivers, farmers etc are lower echelon because of the jobs they do. That is so against the American spirit. I don't judge people by what they do for a living, and I hope no one judges me, but I can see that is not the case.

 

It is absurd to think that because Americans have different jobs  they are somehow different or have different values. We all want to live the American dream here. I have never heard  anyone besides you judge a person by what type of job they have.

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NOT that they are lower echelon. I have a lot more time for "grocery workers, delivery drivers, farmers etc" than I do for most "upper echelon" workers. But it is a FACT that they are the ones with major financial problems - including the inability to pay for health care ; the prospect of homelessness, the reliance on food stamps...

 

It is nothing to do with their values which are much as my own, on the whole -  it's to do with the FACT that many - I hesitate to say most - attorneys, stockbrokers, POLITICIANS, managers - haven't the remotest idea what it is like to live on the breadline (or below it). In the UK a few years ago a reality show actually got a number of politicians to live alongside some "lower echelon" people. One in particular - an very right wing and until that day rather unpleasantly "superior" woman - was so horrified by what she had learned  about the conditions they had to live in that she set up classes to help them. You have NO IDEA, and you are assuming that we are referring to values. We are talking about what it is like to try and raise a family on $360 a week. That's what take home pay is for someone working 40 hours a week at $9 an hour. Ask them what it's like to manage on that, not what their values are. Try LIVING on that - and not by using up the food you have in the freezer already. Take a room with nothing in it but the furniture (basic). Pay the rent, buy your groceries; pay your utilities. Oh - and visit your doctor. You haven't insurance, don't forget. That doesn't happen on $360 a week. And I haven't even taken into account any child you my have to feed and clothe.

 

You really haven't the remotest idea. VALUES ? It's nothing to do with values. Some of the most repellent values I see are among the "higher echelons".

 

No-one is judging anyone by their job. But you do not understand that people with almost no money live a very different life  from your well heeled one. They do not have your options. They would love to have them, I don't doubt, but it's not their choice to miss out on the American Dream (whatever that really is.)

 

 

 

Edited by Fuzzbucket

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3 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

That is really a very condescending commentary, to assert that people like grocery workers, delivery drivers, farmers etc are lower echelon because of the jobs they do. That is so against the American spirit. I don't judge people by what they do for a living, and I hope no one judges me, but I can see that is not the case..

 

You misunderstand things grossly here. The above comment by  @purpledragonclaw had nothing to do about judging these people's merit as persons. The comment was about how US American capitalism judges these people's worth due to their income.

 

Quote

"The survey findings remind us that many American households are struggling financially, including fully 40 percent of those with a high school diploma or less," said Federal Reserve Board Governor Lael Brainard. "More broadly, 44 percent of all respondents could not cover an unexpected $400 emergency expense or would rely on borrowing or selling something to do so. The survey also shows that many adults have no savings for retirement."

(...)

The survey covers several aspects of financial instability. Twenty-three percent of adults did not expect to be able to pay all of their current month's bills in full; 25 percent reported skipping medical treatments due to cost in the prior year; and, if faced with an unexpected $400 emergency expense, 44 percent of adults either could not pay the expense or would borrow or sell something to do so.

That's from your own Government: https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/other20170519a.htm

 

Now add to that

Quote

The recent release of 2015 information from the Insurance Component of the Medical Expenditure Panel Survey (MEPS-IC) shows continuation of the fairly long-term decline in the share of private-sector workers in small firms that are offered coverage and that receive coverage at their job.

(...)

Workers who are not offered coverage at their job in general are more likely to be uninsured than workers who are.  Among workers aged 18 to 64 at private industries, 28 percent of workers without an offer of employer sponsored insurance (ESI) were uninsured

Source: https://www.kff.org/private-insurance/issue-brief/diminishing-offer-and-coverage-rates-among-private-sector-employees/

 

Quote

A majority of U.S. adults have to delay getting the care they need, or put it off completely, because they can't afford it, data from financial website Earnin shows.

According to the research, which combined Earnin-user data with data from a Harris Poll survey of more than 2,000 adults, 54 percent of Americans say they've delayed care for themselves in the past year because of cost, and another 23 percent delayed care for more than a year for the same reason.

Meanwhile, 10 percent of Americans with children under the age of 18 have delayed care for a dependent or child because of financial issues.

Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/29/over-half-of-americans-delay-health-care-becasue-they-cant-afford-it.html

 

Additional many poor people in the US practically have no means to feed themselves and thus rely on "food stamps" (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program) which the Trump administration proposed policy changes to SNAP last April, leading to the federal government being able to deny that there is a lack of employment opportunity and thereby deny waivers. Originally this callous act was planned to come into force on April 1, 2020, but fortunately a federal judge issued an injunction halting the changes for now.

Quote

Should the proposed changes to SNAP have gone through, the consequences would have been devastating. Maggie Dickinson, a professor of interdisciplinary studies at Guttman Community College in New York City, spent three years researching the program for her recently published book Feeding the Crisis: Care and Abandonment in America’s Food Safety Net, which describes the decades-long effort to shackle SNAP benefits to work requirements. Dickinson observes that, while nearly 40 million people already rely on SNAP, that number is bound to explode as the COVID-19 pandemic forces businesses to close and pushes their workers into unemployment. Expecting SNAP recipients to find jobs at a moment like this would have been tantamount to “starving them,” in Dickinson’s words.

Source: https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/trump-food-stamps/

 

Quote

Joe Maginn, an ER nurse in Madison, Wisconsin, said: “The bottom line has always been very forefront and this now puts into an extra level of being conscious on our mind to not waste money.”

Maginn and his wife, who is also a healthcare worker, are on alert for their own healthcare costs.

“If we do get sick and need to be hospitalized, it hits us financially with the insurance and those kinds of payments, but it also hits us financially because we’re not able to work any longer,” Maginn said. “It’s a double whammy for the healthcare workers doing this right now.”

His health insurance, which also covers their three children, costs $5,000 a year plus the money they set aside for out-of-pocket costs in a tax-free account.

“We work for the hospital, it should be that we would have the most access to it [healthcare], but unfortunately yeah, that’s not how our country is set up.”

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/16/profit-over-people-cost-over-care-americas-broken-healthcare-exposed-by-virus

 

THIS is the issue many people here are trying to make you understand - People on low incomes in the US are on the bottom of the food chain and health chain due to the structural deficiencies of the non-existing social system in the US.

 

3 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

It is absurd to think that because Americans have different jobs  they are somehow different or have different values. We all want to live the American dream here. I have never heard  anyone besides you judge a person by what type of job they have.

 

The American Dream, very obviously, is only for the rich. If you don't have a well-paying job in the US you are likely not able to access proper health-care and due to the welfare cuts by the US government very likely even go hungry.

That's the worth the wealthy part of the US society and the US government put to people.

 

Edited by Astreya

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