American Politics

[catstaff]

1 hour ago, StormBirdRising said:

 

No, that is a serious question. I don't know who you are referring to as "Everyone" or why you are speaking for "Everyone" but my question is valid. What does that mean, to say that "I know what it is like for all my colleagues who were stuck there?" Stuck where? 

 

And I am not asking YOU, I am asking the person who posted it, what does that mean? What does she mean by that?

 

Not the OP, but I've considered myself "stuck" in particular jobs before. (Not always retail/customer service, either.) 

Stuck because that was the only job available with flexible enough hours to work around my husband's schedule when we only had one car and lived in an area with extremely limited public transportation.
Stuck because I needed to generate some kind of income to pay on my student loans, but wasn't able to find a job in my field when I first got my degree.
Stuck because I couldn't go back for a more advanced degree because if I stopped working to go back to school, I couldn't afford daycare for my kid that would be needed for me to be able to go to class.
Stuck because my husband's job didn't offer benefits but mine did and we needed the health insurance.

[Fuzzbucket]

15 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

 

I don't judge anyone, not for their job, not for their posts, not for any reason. I don't judge. Everyone has a right to their opinion, even if I don't agree with it. It is their right. And I accept that.

 

What do you mean " I know what it is like for all my colleagues who were stuck there." Stuck where, what does that mean, that there is something wrong in a supermarket job or in a factory job? There is nothing wrong with working in those places. They are productive members of society. Do you think they are less than people who are doctors, or attorneys, or professors, or nurses? They are not less than anyone. There is nothing wrong with working in a supermarket or a factory line.

 

There is nothing wrong with the jobs at all. There is a HUGE amount wrong with the working conditions, level of pay and benefits - and that's even worse in the US where there is the terror of medical bills. At least in the UK they can go to the doctor if they were ill and get mandatory sick pay if they have to be off. Not so in the US.

 

You really don't get it. People who are - yes STUCK - in a job they dare not leave, with inadequate pay - and even more stuck in a country with no decent health care except for those with money -  are in constant fear of something that will render them homeless. It has nothing to do with what job they do. It has to do with the GROSS inequality in society, where the obscenely rich pay excessively rich accountants to help them avoid paying their taxes, a fraction of which could easily fund free healthcare for all, and tell people stuck in low paid (not MENIAL or worthless - LOW PAID - please read that several times as you seem to miss it every single time someone says it) - that they can better themselves if they like. A society where the top 1% of filthy rich people earn over half the money.

 

It's YOU who keep saying people here are saying the jobs are worthless. No-one here is saying that They aren't worthless at all. The jobs of the people who clean the toilets are probably MORE valuable to society than most high paid executive jobs, and I would certainly rate the people doing them as FAR more productive and useful than - well, than your president actually. Certainly more than his sons-in-law.

 

Quote

 

Income inequality in the United States is the extent to which income is distributed in an uneven manner among the American population.  It has fluctuated considerably since measurements began around 1915, moving in an arc between peaks in the 1920s and 2000s, with a 30-year period of relatively lower inequality between 1950–1980.

The U.S. has the highest level of income inequality among its (post-)industrialized peers. When measured for all households, U.S. income inequality is comparable to other developed countries before taxes and transfers, but is among the highest after taxes and transfers, meaning the U.S. shifts relatively less income from higher income households to lower income households. In 2016, average market income was $15,600 for the lowest quintile and $280,300 for the highest quintile. The degree of inequality accelerated within the top quintile, with the top 1% at $1.8 million, approximately 30 times the $59,300 income of the middle quintile.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States

 

That's where they are stuck. I was talking to a charming American couple on vacation once, and when I said it was high time for universal healthcare at the very least they said no it wasn't; this is the American Way - every man responsible for himself. All very well - but then the filthy rich need to behave responsibly. YES you have some wonderful billionaires who do their bit - and have to do THAT through charity - no-one should have to RELY on charity -- and then you have your president and many others who do their level best to avoid injecting anything into caring for anyone but themselves. (And yes, this is also the case in the UK, but at least we have healthcare and a functional welfare net. And your rich gits say but they create JOBS. Well, kinda. They outsource loads to developing countries where the condition are even worse, and the jobs in their companies in their own country are ill paid and insecure.)

 

And the inequality isn't even good for the economy

 

Quote

The economic and political impacts of inequality may include slower GDP growth, reduced income mobility, higher poverty rates, greater usage of household debt leading to increased risk of financial crises, and political polarization. Causes of inequality may include executive compensation increasing relative to the average worker, financialization, greater industry concentration, lower unionization rates, lower effective tax rates on higher incomes, and technology changes that reward higher educational attainment.

 

Please stop with the "you said these jobs are worthless". I have never ONCE said that. No-one here has ever said that. YOU on the other hand have said - incorrectly and repeatedly -several times that people have. You're a lawyer, so presumably literate. Please READ posts instead of guessing what they say. I have said that the money paid to those doing them is utter crap and it is that pattern of exploitation of the poor by the rich to maximise profits for themselves that contributes to your appallingly unequal society. Where yes a heart attack can render people homeless.

 

Get this one then. As human beings we are all equal. I TOTALLY believe that.  In a perfect world everyone would have exactly the same income, no tax breaks; none needed. Industry profits would pay for it all. And there would be free healthcare for all. Who does that demean ? Oh wait - the rich gits who MUST be allowed to lord it over the rest of us.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Fuzzbucket
My mouse seems to have a totally incorrect autocorrect....

[Fuzzbucket]

Oh and PS; double posting to avoid extra length. Stuck. I would cheerfully have stayed in that supermarket job indefinitely. The hours suited me, rather better than the job I eventually found, and it was convenient. I simply could not afford to live on that pay. None of us on the shop floor could, though those with partners with a second - mostly equally marginal - income JUST managed as long as their kids were in school all day; those with toddlers couldn't afford child care of course.

 

I was stuck worrying about bills. About feeding my children. And that was even given that we all had free healthcare.

 

Do you get the stuck bit yet ?

Edited April 26, 2020 by Fuzzbucket

[olympe]

@Fuzzbucket There isn't anything to add to all of your statements save for this:        

 

Seriously.

"I'm not a political person." (But I'll publicly support our "beloved" president and spout off the worst of his nonsense at the drop of a hat.)

"I don't judge anyone, not for their job, not for their posts, not for any reason. I don't judge. Everyone has a right to their opinion, even if I don't agree with it. It is their right. And I accept that." (But I'll attack what I perceived as their flawed opinion ad nauseam, even if my perception is obviously wrong and interpreted in the most malicious way possible.)

"I'm a lawyer. I make good money." (Well, at least that shines through from the post about their cost for health insurance.) (But I don't mind asking other people for theirs - not to cash it in, mind you.)

 

Anybody notice a trend here?

[Fuzzbucket]

And to reiterate, since it seems to be so easily missed and / or deliberately misunderstood:

 

Quote

What do you mean " I know what it is like for all my colleagues who were stuck there." Stuck where, what does that mean, that there is something wrong in a supermarket job or in a factory job? There is nothing wrong with working in those places. They are productive members of society. Do you think they are less than people who are doctors, or attorneys, or professors, or nurses? They are not less than anyone. There is nothing wrong with working in a supermarket or a factory li

 

No, indeed. There is nothing at all wrong with working in a supermarket or a factory. Those are probably the most valuable and useful jobs there are. No-one would have anything else were it not for those people doing their jobs. I would happily have carried on doing so if I could have afforded to (well, not the factory; the dust levels were such that I still have allergies developed in there...) If  I had to choose, I'd far rather have more factory workers than more lawyers. Factory workers are productive. They even make all the stuff that rich people buy.  While lawyers are very often only needed because rich people like to sue each other because they are butt hurt that some newspaper said they lied (when they did) - or they hire a shedload of defence lawyers to avoid paying their taxes !  Rich people use lawyers to take poor workers to court to try to stop them unionising to get decent pay and conditions. None of that is NECESSARY or even laudable. Factory and shop work is.

 

There is everything wrong with paying people less than  for doing those jobs. I know what it was like for my colleagues from the supermarket after I left - they were still trying to find the money to live on. To pay the rent. To clothe their kids. If you had EVER been there, StormBirdRising, you might have some degree of understanding. When did you last have to decide whether to miss a few meals so that your child could eat ? When was your power cut off because you couldn't pay the bill (not wouldn't, not didn't, COULDN'T ?) When were you last evicted for non-payment of rent  because you gave in and paid the power bill with the last dollar you had? And actually - is this the case in the US too - one of the UK's most shocking inequities - when did you have to pay MORE for your power because the company knew you were low paid so insisted that you have a pay as you go meter in your home  "for your convenience, to help you with your bills..." , and charged almost 50% more for your power than those who can pay in the normal way - because they have the money to qualify ? The rich squeeze the poor every chance they get.

 

It's about the money, not the status. It's ALL, and ONLY, about the MONEY.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Fuzzbucket
DAMN MY MOUSE

[ValidEmotions]

8 hours ago, olympe said:

@Fuzzbucket"I don't judge anyone, not for their job, not for their posts, not for any reason. I don't judge. Everyone has a right to their opinion, even if I don't agree with it. It is their right. And I accept that." (But I'll attack what I perceived as their flawed opinion ad nauseam, even if my perception is obviously wrong and interpreted in the most malicious way possible.)

"I'm a lawyer. I make good money." (Well, at least that shines through from the post about their cost for health insurance.) (But I don't mind asking other people for theirs - not to cash it in, mind you.)

(I don't know how to remove Fuzzbucket's ping while on mobile. I'm sorry.)

 

@StormBirdRising this. This is what makes your question

Quote

There is nothing wrong with working in those places. They are productive members of society. Do you think they are less than people who are doctors, or attorneys, or professors, or nurses?

one that is asked in bad faith. People have repeatedly told you that those working lower waged jobs are not "less than". Hell, I'm a low-wage worker and have been since high school. Yet, you continuously make every attempt at gaslighting the people in this thread. You have made several attempts to claim or suggest that any of us are snubbing our noses and looking down on low-wage earners.

 

 I have also explained to you, through personal experience, that too many (not all!) people who never have worked low-wage jobs treat low-wage earners (like myself!) like trash. We get harassed by those who have never worked customer service or in food service. We get abused, verbally and emotionally and physically and sexually, because our employers like to force "the customer is always right" and prevent us from defending ourselves against abuse. We're regarded as inferior by too many. All the while, those who demean us forget that someone has to fill the position so they can get their stupid McDouble.

[Fuzzbucket]

Thank you, ValidEmotions.

 

Let me reiterate my point very very simply so that it CANNOT be misunderstood except deliberately.

 

There is nothing at all wrong with working in a supermarket or a factory. Those are probably the most valuable and useful jobs there are. NONE of us could manage without their being done.

 

There is everything wrong with paying people less than  for doing those very important jobs. 

 

It's about the money, not the status. It's ALL, and ONLY, about the MONEY. If you don't have decent pay you are STUCK with no way out.

 

If you (generic) can read this, you can understand it. If you (generic) cannot understand it, the only possible explanation is that you can't read.

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Fuzzbucket

[purpledragonclaw]

@Fuzzbucket and @ValidEmotions Say it louder for the people in the back!!! 

 

I had a co-worker who had a great idea: instead of the military draft, create a draft where every American has to work a mandatory 2 years in either food, retail, or both. It should help people gain some empathy for those that have to wait on them in restaurants and stores. I've worked about three years of retail and definitely felt stuck in year 3. I was working part-time, weekends only, I couldn't work more due to pulling a 17-unit semester in college. I realized one week in school that if I don't finish, I could be stuck working there my whole life. There was no growth opportunity, no moving up into corporate, pay raises were 25 cents a year (yes, you read that right) on a minimum wage salary, and a full-time schedule was very hard to get (since the company would have had to provide benefits). Working in a mall for years I'd known several employees at different stores who were lifers and it was their career. Nobody liked it, nobody enjoyed it, everyone wanted to get out. The pay was terrible, the customers they had to work with were terrible, and the company was terrible. So I gave my two weeks notice the next week and that was my last retail job. I was very fortunate to be able to quit a job like that and focus on school, which I threw myself into for the next four years until I graduated, including during the summer. To this day I strike up conversations with my checkers, bank tellers, waiters, and darn near anyone who waits on me. You'd be amazed how much the simple act of asking them how they're doing means to them since they're so used to being treated like garbage. And having dealt with my fair share of horrible people in retail, I don't ever want to subject someone else to that. EVER. Fast food doesn't have a tip jar? I give it to the cashier directly. It makes these people's DAYS. 

 

And people in those industries, who have to keep working during this pandemic, many cases without sanitation supplies or masks, are grossly underpaid. It was always apparent to me before, but it's extremely apparent now. Are CEOs important? Absolutely! Do they deserve all the money they make while those who actually do the work of making these companies profitable make pennies compared to their salaries? Heck to the no. As Fuzzbucket pointed out, the gross inequality in the U.S. is the problem. The lack of a social safety net in the U.S. is the problem. You can't tell me that we can afford tax breaks for those who need it the least while many who get tax breaks proceed to lay off hundreds of workers due to making less money in the quarter than they thought they would. You can't tell me a company can say "We've had our most profitable quarter ever but we still have to lay off 800 workers because we didn't make as much as we thought we would" and think that's fair. 

 

These people are not less than me. They're not greater than me. As Fuzzbucket eloquently pointed out, human beings are equal. But we don't treat each other with equality, and we certainly don't pay with equality, either. A basketball player can make $45,000,000 a year yet a teacher has to go on strike for benefits, a pay raise, and updated materials? An actor can make $20,000,000 to make a movie yet Amazon warehouse workers are fired for not making nearly impossible quotas every single day? In what just world is this fair? 

 

I know people who make good money and struggle to make ends meet due to child care costs. I know people who nearly lost their home due to a medical emergency when the sole breadwinner's paycheck had to pay for it. And did they lose their home? No, but what they had to sacrifice was FOOD. There were days where they, as parents, had to go hungry so their kids could eat. When they had to visit family so they could get a meal. People struggle EVERY SINGLE DAY TO MAKE ENDS MEET. People who are thrown out onto the street because their landlord increased the rent on their apartment and didn't fix dwelling issues to force them out so they could renovate the building and rent the same unit with a rent hike. Why is this allowed to happen???? Why in this country that's supposed to be so great does this happen??? And why is it fair or expected of these people to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" if they can't?? If they're doing all they can?? And these issues are compounded in this country if you were born brown. 

 

The fact that so many people lack basic empathy for their fellow human beings is staggering to me. 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by purpledragonclaw

[TheScorpionKing]

I like the idea of bringing back the draft, but really bringing back the draft, the military draft.

Why wait until the government orders you to sign up, do it now.

All five branches of the U.S. military are hiring right now, at all levels.

They need computer programmers, drone pilots, cooks, helicopter pilots, lawyers, doctors, nurses, engineers,

grunts, officers, infantrymen, combat personnel, you name it, they need it.   

And they'll train you to do it, send you to college, law school, medical school, 

the choice is yours. 

You'll get free room and board, three squares a day, free medical, free education, and a paycheck,

it won't be much, but it's a paycheck. 

Qualifications for each branch are a little different but basically:

You will qualify if you are 17 to 39 years old, a U.S. citizen or legal permanent resident,

a High School diploma or GED, and relatively good health. 

All you have to do is make it through 8 to 13 weeks of Basic Training, depending on which branch you pick.

Then you can live the American Dream according to the words of President John F. Kennedy,

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

 

 

[Astreya]

@TheScorpionKing

And what are the people supposed to do who don't have the health to make it through the Basic training?

[ValidEmotions]

12 minutes ago, TheScorpionKing said:

I like the idea of bringing back the draft, but really bringing back the draft, the military draft.

Why wait until the government orders you to sign up, do it now.

All five branches of the U.S. military are hiring right now, at all levels.

They need computer programmers, drone pilots, cooks, helicopter pilots, lawyers, doctors, nurses, engineers,

grunts, officers, infantrymen, combat personnel, you name it, they need it.   

And they'll train you to do it, send you to college, law school, medical school, 

the choice is yours. 

You'll get free room and board, three squares a day, free medical, free education, and a paycheck,

it won't be much, but it's a paycheck. 

Qualifications for each branch are a little different but basically:

You will qualify if you are 17 to 39 years old, a U.S. citizen or legal permanent resident,

a High School diploma or GED, and relatively good health. 

All you have to do is make it through 8 to 13 weeks of Basic Training, depending on which branch you pick.

Then you can live the American Dream according to the words of President John F. Kennedy,

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

It's not that simple.

1. Not everyone physically or mentally qualifies

-- 1a. Not everyone should be given a gun because some get too violent when they're angry and giving them a gun is only going to give them easier means of acting out that violence.

-- 1b. Much of our own military is corrupt, committing war crimes left and right, then covering it all up to escape justice/being held accountable.

-- 1c. Let's also not forget the countless numbers of military men who rape/assault women in their ranks and the women who aren't even allowed to report it.

2. You can't force anyone to sign away their lives, their physical and mental wellbeing to fight someone else's war. Most especially, it isn't right for Dear Mr. President and Congress or Prime Minister and Councils or what-have-you to make ordinary citizens fight their wars. After all, in the end, they're going to sit down and talk, anyways. So why sacrifice thousands of lives?

3. Those jobs you listed? Much of them aren't going to be recruiting or hiring during a pandemic, when people are supposed to be on lockdown/self-isolating/practicing social distancing.

4. The military doesn't even follow through on their promises of giving full U.S. citizenship to immigrants who have enlisted, why should I trust they'll give me, a born citizen, the benefits they promise?

5. The American Dream is a racist joke that isn't much of a dream.

Edited April 27, 2020 by ValidEmotions

[TheScorpionKing]

Yes, it is that simple. 

If you meet the criteria, which is a low threshold by most job requirements,

you walk into the Recruiters office, and you apply for the job. 

If you've chosen the Army,

you take the ASVAB - Armed Forces Vocational Aptitude Battery.  Your score determines which Army jobs you are qualified to hold.
Then you pass the Army physical and meet with a career counselor to discuss and accept your Army job.
Next you take the Oath of Enlistment
And then you are off to your Basic Combat Training.

 

And when you finish Basics,

and you are wearing your uniform,

you will be the 1% of the U.S. population that knows that this country is not built by money,

it is built by blood,

the blood of Warriors. 

And when you are off the Base you will hear people complaining about their jobs,

and other first world problems

and it won't mean a thing.  

 

[purpledragonclaw]

3 hours ago, purpledragonclaw said:

The fact that so many people lack basic empathy for their fellow human beings is staggering to me. 

 

4 minutes ago, TheScorpionKing said:

And when you are off the Base you will hear people complaining about their jobs,

and other first world problems

and it won't mean a thing.  

 

And here is the lack of empathy personified. The lack of care for your fellow human beings. 

 

People's lives and problems matter, whether you choose to care or not. I choose to care. I choose to help those I can. And I choose to never have such a callous attitude towards not just the 327 million people I share this country with, but the other 7.373 billion people I share this planet with.

 

 

[TheScorpionKing]

3 minutes ago, purpledragonclaw said:

 

 

And here is the lack of empathy personified. The lack of care for your fellow human beings. 

 

People's lives and problems matter, whether you choose to care or not. I choose to care. I choose to help those I can. And I choose to never have such a callous attitude towards not just the 327 million people I share this country with, but the other 7.373 billion people I share this planet with.

 

 

 

Good for you.

Just remember that your ability to sit here in judgement of me, someone you don't know,

and cast dispersions,

are only possible because of the sacrifices that I and other members of the US Military have made

to preserve your civil and Constitutional rights.

 

[purpledragonclaw]

I'm not judging you, I'm responding to you, using your own words in mirror to my own. And ValidEmotions posted very good reasons why serving in the military will not work for everyone, especially women. 

 

Many others besides myself have tried to highlight why the way our country currently functions does not work for all. 

 

And the way I got my civil and constitutional rights had nothing to do with the military. 

 

 

[TheScorpionKing]

17 minutes ago, purpledragonclaw said:

I'm not judging you, I'm responding to you, using your own words in mirror to my own. And ValidEmotions posted very good reasons why serving in the military will not work for everyone, especially women. 

 

Many others besides myself have tried to highlight why the way our country currently functions does not work for all. 

 

And the way I got my civil and constitutional rights had nothing to do with the military. 

 

 

 

You're not judging me?

By telling me that I am the lack of empathy personified,

and that I don't care about my fellow human beings? 

And that I have a callous attitude because I don't care about your first world problems?

I don't care about your first world problems. 

This is what American politics has become:

free speech is okay as long as you're complaining about America. 

But since I disagree with that, then I am callous, and don't care about my fellow human beings,

according to you. 

 

I wish they would bring back the draft, as you suggested,

in addition to all of the benefits I have already mentioned about serving in the US Military, 

members of the military get paid "trips", we call them "tours" or "deployments"

to third world countries, and get to witness first hand, the abject poverty,

and the lack of not only civil rights but human rights in other parts of the world.

It puts first world problems in a different perspective.

 

And if you think that the US Military was not instrumental in the granting of and the preservation of your rights and liberties,

then you are ungrateful, and misinformed.

And using your criteria, I'm not judging you,

I'm just responding to you, "using your own words to in mirror to my own".

 

 

 

 

[ValidEmotions]

1 hour ago, TheScorpionKing said:

And when you finish Basics,

and you are wearing your uniform,

you will be the 1% of the U.S. population that knows that this country is not built by money,

it is built by blood,

the blood of Warriors. 

That's rich 🙄 Considering that this country was built on the backs of hundreds of thousands of slaves and the genocide of the Indigenous Tribes, more so than any blood from "warriors" that the US Government likes to recruit under the romanticized ideas about war. 

 

And this junk about "just pass this super easy physical"? I can't even donate blood because I'm considered too small. I'd have to gain an unhealthy amount of weight for my body just to hit the minimum threshold. 

No. I am not joining and putting my trust in some jacked up military unit that has rules against me reporting sexual crimes/assault should I or someone I know be attacked by fellow members.

Edited April 27, 2020 by ValidEmotions

[TheScorpionKing]

19 minutes ago, ValidEmotions said:

That's rich 🙄 Considering that this country was built on the backs of hundreds of thousands of slaves and the genocide of the Indigenous Tribes, more so than any blood from "warriors" that the US Government likes to recruit under the romanticized ideas about war. 

 

And this junk about "just pass this super easy physical"? I can't even donate blood because I'm considered too small. I'd have to gain an unhealthy amount of weight for my body just to hit the minimum threshold. 

No. I am not joining and putting my trust in some jacked up military unit that has rules against me reporting sexual crimes/assault should I or someone I know be attacked by fellow members.

 

You hate the United States, I get that.

You hate the Unite States military, I get that.

You want all the freedoms of the United States without making any sacrifices. I get that.

You want all the privileges of a first world nation, but you don't want any of the responsibilities. I get that.

But you are still living in the United States.  I don't get that. 

[purpledragonclaw]

1 hour ago, TheScorpionKing said:

And when you are off the Base you will hear people complaining about their jobs,

and other first world problems

and it won't mean a thing.  

 

48 minutes ago, TheScorpionKing said:

You're not judging me?

By telling me that I am the lack of empathy personified,

and that I don't care about my fellow human beings? 

And that I have a callous attitude because I don't care about your first world problems?

I don't care about your first world problems.

 

Before I respond to your posts in full, would you please tell me what you define as "first world problems" that you don't care about?

[StormBirdRising]

On 4/25/2020 at 9:17 PM, catstaff said:

 

Not the OP, but I've considered myself "stuck" in particular jobs before. (Not always retail/customer service, either.) 

Stuck because that was the only job available with flexible enough hours to work around my husband's schedule when we only had one car and lived in an area with extremely limited public transportation.
Stuck because I needed to generate some kind of income to pay on my student loans, but wasn't able to find a job in my field when I first got my degree.
Stuck because I couldn't go back for a more advanced degree because if I stopped working to go back to school, I couldn't afford daycare for my kid that would be needed for me to be able to go to class.
Stuck because my husband's job didn't offer benefits but mine did and we needed the health insurance.

 

Thank you for explaining that to me. I really appreciate it.

[StormBirdRising]

21 hours ago, olympe said:

@Fuzzbucket There isn't anything to add to all of your statements save for this:        

 

Seriously.

"I'm not a political person." (But I'll publicly support our "beloved" president and spout off the worst of his nonsense at the drop of a hat.)

"I don't judge anyone, not for their job, not for their posts, not for any reason. I don't judge. Everyone has a right to their opinion, even if I don't agree with it. It is their right. And I accept that." (But I'll attack what I perceived as their flawed opinion ad nauseam, even if my perception is obviously wrong and interpreted in the most malicious way possible.)

"I'm a lawyer. I make good money." (Well, at least that shines through from the post about their cost for health insurance.) (But I don't mind asking other people for theirs - not to cash it in, mind you.)

 

Anybody notice a trend here?

 

I'm not a political person, even though there is nothing wrong with being political. I don't apologize for not bashing the President like you bash him.  He is an American Patriot like me, I've said that before. It's no secret and I am proud of it.  Doesn't make me political. Just makes me an American Patriot.

 

I don't judge anyone. I don't attack anyone. I am not a snowflake or a sheepocrat or a sheepublican, I don't like my country bashed and I don't like my President bashed. I don't like lies told about my country and my President. I have just as much right to post in this forum as you have. Expressing my opinion is not an attack. It's expressing my opinion.

 

"I'm a lawyer. I make good money." I never said that.  Purpledragonclaw inferred that when she was harassing me about being in the upper echelon and not knowing what it was like to be in the lower echelon, and that I was middle class, and in other words, she couldn't find a cohesive response to my post so she chose to attack me personally, in an attempt to make it seem like I was living in some ivory tower out of touch with reality, with the sole purpose of discrediting my posts. Although that is a good example of how fake news works. One person says something that has no basis in fact, and then another person repeats it and then another person picks it up and then before you know it  everyone is saying "well it must be true, I read it on the internet".

 

 

 

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

27 minutes ago, StormBirdRising said:

I'm a lawyer. I make good money." I never said that.  Purpledragonclaw inferred that when she was harassing me about being in the upper echelon and not knowing what it was like to be in the lower echelon, and that I was middle class, and in other words, she couldn't find a cohesive response to my post so she chose to attack me personally, in an attempt to make it seem like I was living in some ivory tower out of touch with reality, with the sole purpose of discrediting my posts. Although that is a good example of how fake news works. One person says something that has no basis in fact, and then another person repeats it and then another person picks it up and then before you know it  everyone is saying "well it must be true, I read it on the internet".

 

I have no idea whether you said that or not, though I do seem to recall your saying you were lucky that you were well paid, in terms of your healthcare. BUT - let me phrase this another way.

 

There is NO REASON WHATEVER that the person who bags your groceries should be paid one red cent less than you are paid for your job. There shouldn't be any echelons, no-one should be above or below anyone else.

 

That is at the root of all this.

 

And compulsory service in the military would not help the politicians and CEOs who have no idea what their workers suffer to understand what their practices do to the people they exploit. If people want to sign up for the privilege of getting to kill others that's their right. But it will do diddly squat to address the issues of gross inequality that are at the root of Western society - particularly but not exclusively the USA.. 

[StormBirdRising]

12 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

I have no idea whether you said that or not, though I do seem to recall your saying you were lucky that you were well paid, in terms of your healthcare. BUT - let me phrase this another way.

 

There is NO REASON WHATEVER that the person who bags your groceries should be paid one red cent less than you are paid for your job. There shouldn't be any echelons, no-one should be above or below anyone else.

 

That is at the root of all this.

 

And compulsory service in the military would not help the politicians and CEOs who have no idea what their workers suffer to understand what their practices do to the people they exploit. If people want to sign up for the privilege of getting to kill others that's their right. But it will do diddly squat to address the issues of gross inequality that are at the root of Western society - particularly but not exclusively the USA.. 

 

I don't know what you are talking about

 

[StormBirdRising]

17 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

I have no idea whether you said that or not, though I do seem to recall your saying you were lucky that you were well paid, in terms of your healthcare. BUT - let me phrase this another way.

 

There is NO REASON WHATEVER that the person who bags your groceries should be paid one red cent less than you are paid for your job. There shouldn't be any echelons, no-one should be above or below anyone else.

 

That is at the root of all this.

 

And compulsory service in the military would not help the politicians and CEOs who have no idea what their workers suffer to understand what their practices do to the people they exploit. If people want to sign up for the privilege of getting to kill others that's their right. But it will do diddly squat to address the issues of gross inequality that are at the root of Western society - particularly but not exclusively the USA.. 

 

I don't know what you are talking about. You must be reading someone else's post. I never said that I was lucky I was well paid. I said my healthcare costs went up dramatically under the Affordable Health Care Act. 

 

The person who bags my groceries? I bag my own groceries. Don't worry what I get paid, it's none of your business.

 

Echelons? I didn't know what that meant, upper echelon, lower echelon in terms of society. I don't believe there are echelons in the United States, I think I said that. I know that I said we are all the same, no matter what job we have. We are all equal. I really believe that. 

 

Compuslory service in the military???? Where did you pull that out from? ???

[Fuzzbucket]

I already said I don't know whether you said it or not, and it really doesn't matter. You are still completely missing the point. Which I have edited, as you slid carefully out of it by pointing out that you bag your own groceries:

 

There is NO REASON WHATEVER that the person who stacks the shelves with the groceries you buy, or the person who sweeps the roadways in your community, or the person who puts the labels on the boxes in the factory should be paid one red cent less than you are paid for your job

 

It is totally unfair as a system.

 

I am not worried about what you are paid. I am worried that you really don't seem to understand that there's no reason in the world that you, just because you are an attorney (or indeed for any other reason) should be paid any more than people who work in factories and stores. Your job is no more valuable than theirs. And that the fact that you are paid more than they are (and you and I both know that you are, even if I don't have your precise payroll information) is why they are stuck in their appallingly ill paid jobs with no access to medical care, and you are not.

 

And I was not responding only to you - there are other posts in this thread. Maybe you didn't notice that TheScorpionKing  suggested compulsory military service should be brought back. Sorry I didn't feel it was necessary to include their quote as well as yours. I was mentioning it as the big issue here is financial inequality, and that suggestion would do nothing to address it.,

Edited April 27, 2020 by Fuzzbucket