ANSWERED:Banned from trading, looking for clarification, not removal of ban

[stardust13]

So, I noticed the new "agree you read the rules" button, and I did read the rules, but somehow have still run afoul of them. Here is what I said on two trades:

 

The following trade messages were reported and may have contributed to this restriction. Not all of these messages may violate the rules:

• 1 2g EGG Vermeil x: Pink Sapphire, Peach Floret, Orange Pyralspite, Forum/Discord DM 4 other/H: CB
• 1 2g EGG Vermeil x: Pink Sapphire, Peach Floret, Orange Pyralspite, Forum/Discord DM 4 other/H: CB

 

Was my request too confusing, or was suggesting I can be DMed for more options the problem? Or something else entirely? I just have a long list of holiday mates that I need and I thought I could get one from trading. I thought if the few breeds I could get into the limited space were not available to someone, they could DM me for the full list.

 

So, clarification and maybe a suggestion for next time, please?

[blah]

My guess is because you mentioned Discord, according to the comment linked above only the forums can be mentioned. 

[stardust13]

24 minutes ago, blah said:

My guess is because you mentioned Discord, according to the comment linked above only the forums can be mentioned. 

Maybe? I'm looking at the trading rules here and the language is pretty vague.  If mentioning Discord is "links to other sites", it should probably say "mention of other sites" instead. I didn't link to anything, only mentioned the name, and doesn't DC maintain an official server on Discord? So how can mentioning it be wrong? I'm a member of the DC official discord.

While I'm looking at the rules, this part also makes no sense - "Asking for a specific egg/hatchling". Isn't that what we're all doing, asking for a specific egg or hatching in trade??
 

If they are going to ban people with no warning, even for one lousy day, there should be more explicit rules. Also, I'm going to go ahead and wait for an official response. The Discord thing doesn't make sense when DC maintains a discord.

[blah]

I don’t disagree honestly. 

[MissK.]

8 minutes ago, stardust13 said:

Maybe? I'm looking at the trading rules here and the language is pretty vague.  If mentioning Discord is "links to other sites", it should probably say "mention of other sites" instead. I didn't link to anything, only mentioned the name, and doesn't DC maintain an official server on Discord? So how can mentioning it be wrong? I'm a member of the DC official discord.

While I'm looking at the rules, this part also makes no sense - "Asking for a specific egg/hatchling". Isn't that what we're all doing, asking for a specific egg or hatching in trade??
 

If they are going to ban people with no warning, even for one lousy day, there should be more explicit rules. Also, I'm going to go ahead and wait for an official response. The Discord thing doesn't make sense when DC maintains a discord.

 

It was definitely the Discord thing, two different mods have said so in that thread. But I agree with you that it isn't entirely clear in the rules right now. In the linked thread it was explicitly said that "directing" people off-site is against the rules, so asking someone to contact you through a different site is not allowed. The forums are the only thing you're allowed to mention. But right now the rules only say "link", not "direct" or even "mention". Which is kind of confusing, evidently.

 

As for "a specific egg/hatchling", it means requesting a specific egg by code, or something that could only possibly come from one single breeding pair. Like, if TJ breeds his dragons and someone asks for Guardian 2g thuwed specifically, there's only one egg on the site that could possibly be offered. Trade requests need to be more broad than that.

[stardust13]

10 minutes ago, MissK. said:

 

It was definitely the Discord thing, two different mods have said so in that thread. But I agree with you that it isn't entirely clear in the rules right now. In the linked thread it was explicitly said that "directing" people off-site is against the rules, so asking someone to contact you through a different site is not allowed. The forums are the only thing you're allowed to mention. But right now the rules only say "link", not "direct" or even "mention". Which is kind of confusing, evidently.

 

As for "a specific egg/hatchling", it means requesting a specific egg by code, or something that could only possibly come from one single breeding pair. Like, if TJ breeds his dragons and someone asks for Guardian 2g thuwed specifically, there's only one egg on the site that could possibly be offered. Trade requests need to be more broad than that.

 

This is all very "Ugh" because DC maintains a Discord, and, also, I guess the language of "Asking for a specific egg/hatchling" is not great language. It should probably be "asking for a specific egg or hatchling by code or breeder" instead.

But thank you, MissK and blah for trying to help. I know that no rules are ever perfect, but, in this case, I think some editing is needed.

P.S. A thread on the forum is not specific rules on the site. I had no clue that thread was going on before I ran afoul of "unpublished on DC" rules. I'm sure I won't be the only one, either. Big turn-off for people trying to follow the rules when they essentially can't without taking a deep dive into the forum and hoping they are interpreting unwritten rules correctly.

Edited January 22 by stardust13

[Fuzzbucket]

Discord IS another site. I would have thought it fairly obvious that it was; it isn't a part of dragcave.net. And you say yourself that you had read the rules as now posted - on site. But if this was a first offence - the ban isn't that long, and you will know next time.

[MissK.]

Of course discord is another site, but they did not link to it. The rules right now only say not to post "links to other sites". 

[TJ09]

After looking into the issue, it appears that the temporary trading ban was applied in error. It has now been removed--sorry for the inconvenience.

 

Please note that the messages shown on the help page represent messages that were reported, not necessarily messages that triggered a ban. This is why the page mentions that "Not all of these messages may violate the rules."

[MissK.]

12 minutes ago, TJ09 said:

After looking into the issue, it appears that the temporary trading ban was applied in error. It has now been removed--sorry for the inconvenience.

 

Please note that the messages shown on the help page represent messages that were reported, not necessarily messages that triggered a ban. This is why the page mentions that "Not all of these messages may violate the rules."

 

...sorry for butting in again, but now I'm very confused. The post that blah linked above was removed for some reason and you seem to be saying that there wasn't anything wrong with those trade messages after all. Should we take that to mean that "DM me on discord" is okay after all? 

[TJ09]

4 minutes ago, MissK. said:

Should we take that to mean that "DM me on discord" is okay after all? 

Saying "DM me on discord" does not violate any of the trading rules. The closest thing that people might believe it violates is "[no] links to other sites," but that's actually quite literal--don't try to insert URLs or other references to external websites. Things like "see docs.google.com/whatever for my wishlist" are not okay.

 

A future update to the rules will clarify that the intent is "URLs."

[MissK.]

Thank you so much for clarifying that once and for all. Very glad to see that the rules are actually much more literal than we were led to believe. 

[purpledragonclaw]

I apologize for causing confusion, that was my mistake, I thought Discord mentions weren't allowed. I've edited my post linked above!

[Cute_Dragons]

3 hours ago, TJ09 said:

Saying "DM me on discord" does not violate any of the trading rules. The closest thing that people might believe it violates is "[no] links to other sites," but that's actually quite literal--don't try to insert URLs or other references to external websites. Things like "see docs.google.com/whatever for my wishlist" are not okay.

 

A future update to the rules will clarify that the intent is "URLs."

Thank you so much for this clarification! This will save so many headaches in the future

2 hours ago, purpledragonclaw said:

I apologize for causing confusion, that was my mistake, I thought Discord mentions weren't allowed. I've edited my post linked above!

I think that's what many people believed and were afraid of violating, thus many people resort to listing group number in trade, and put their contact info by naming dragons in the group. Thank you for the editing and it's great to have this clarification now.

 

Btw for long list of mates, I found it helpful to create a group with a representation of each mate needed, thus making it smoother for people who are not interested in DMing. Glad it all worked out and the ban is lifted for OP.

Edited January 23 by Cute_Dragons

[D-wing]

Thanks TJ for clarifying. Glad to know it's not violation.

[Moriaty]

6 hours ago, TJ09 said:

Saying "DM me on discord" does not violate any of the trading rules. The closest thing that people might believe it violates is "[no] links to other sites," but that's actually quite literal--don't try to insert URLs or other references to external websites. Things like "see docs.google.com/whatever for my wishlist" are not okay.

 

huhhhh good thing to be clarified because I genuinely thought that wasn't allowed for the entirety of this month as in the same thread that was what Kaini was saying or at least heavily implying = =

 

Spoiler

"Ex: Oh but I can post my discord username for people to contact me there? Mmk! Must totally be allowed. Not a link." (on page 11) <- I took this to mean this is not ok behavior

 

 

I kinda feel like there's a problem somewhere if mod and TJ have this kind of misunderstanding floating around regarding how exactly should things be considered allowed and not allowed.