Legend of Dragons

[Meg_752]

Searched and found nothing.

Okay. I don't know the answers to these questions, but maybe you people on the forums would know or have an opinion.

 

1. Why did so many different, seperate cultures have a myth/legend/story about dragons?

2. Is there any real-world basis for dragon mythos?

3. Why is an ancient myth so relevant, even today?

[grimace]

They're just one of those things that got popular and stuck. If you really look into it though, most dragons in different cultures aren't very similar at all.

[octopi]

You know how the words "troll" and "fairy" have a million meanings? That's because some European people travelled the world and decided to name everything that vaguely resembled things from their own mythology after those things. Same deal with dragons.

 

Chinese dragons(more properly, long) and typical western dragons have literally nothing in common besides flying and scales. Long are usually considered benevolent spirits or deities, and are explicitly a mixture of a lot of animals (tiger, snake, deer, chicken, among others), while western dragons are (traditionally) malevolent monsters who terrorize humans and are just lizards with wings. It's like calling all four-legged housepets cats and then expressing surprise that "cats are everywhere!".

Edited September 23, 2014 by Fractional Pi Day

[edwardelricfreak]

Since many things were misunderstood way back when (and much is still misunderstood even now), I'm sure *anything* outside the norm seemed like some fantastic creature. They didn't have Internet or other resources to learn about animals and other things outside where they lived other than word of mouth and the first books.

 

I'm sure most creatures, not just dragons, might have been mutated or otherwise deformed animals and people, but no one knew that. And then of course many would exaggerated the tales, which became the legends.

 

The kirin of Japanese and other Asian cultures is most likely just a giraffe, as the word for "giraffe" in those languages (at least Japanese) is shared with the kirin.

 

When people of one culture try to learn the language and culture of another for the first time, they try to look for words that mean similar things. But when words can't be found, they either adopt the term or expand the definition of a word to include those things. Someone probably thought that the eastern dragons had some similarity of sorts to their own, so they called them "dragons".

[octopi]

Giraffe in Chinese is "long-necked deer" and I'm faaaairly certain the idea of qilin/kirin originated there, but yeah, the point definitely stands.

 

But the point is: "dragon" is a category word for all scaly mythical creatures, the way "fairy" is a catch-all for all magical humanoids. It's inevitable that people will make mythical concepts based on things they see around them, so it's not that surprising that so many different mythical creatures have scales. (Sorry if I seem really antagonistic about this I'm just really tired of people conflating Chinese dragons with western ones. I am still so mad about Iron Fist)

Edited September 23, 2014 by Fractional Pi Day

[DustyBelle]

Dragons and other mythological beings have several different points of origin. Stories told by some storyteller to explain the existence of something found is one explanation. Entertainment as in bard's tales is another. I am sure there are other reasons. Chinese or Oriental dragons are indeed different from Western dragons. Eastern dragons seem to be a bit more mystical than Western. Not all Western dragons are evil or malicious. Many were misunderstood.

 

They are magical beings which makes them attractive to those of us who sadly have no magic. There are many people throughout history who long for magic and magical beings to be real. A dragon you can tame or bond with and ride? How awesome! As we charted and investigated more and more of our own world Our dragon friends were moved to other worlds and universes that we visit through books. Some dragons are evil and cruel; some just protect what is thereirs from greedy thieves and others are very different from the hoarding Western dragons of yore.

 

Which types of dragons do you prefer? I like the type that bond with humans and help protect others. McCaffrey's dragons fit this description.

[Meg_752]

Oh. That seems to make sense. I was thinking more along the lines of, "Why did people invent flying, sometimes magical reptiles when no true flying reptiles exist?"

I do realize that lung and westerns are very different, however it seems unlikely to me that those dragons (it's kind of a loose term, isn't it?) would share anything in common. The people who have these myths didn't talk to each other (I think) and since the cultures are so different having something that similar strikes me as odd.

 

EDIT: I prefer dragons that aren't all ferocious or cuddly, but somewhere in between. I also like those that bond with humans, like in the Pern books as well.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Meg_752

[octopi]

Many Chinese dragons don't fly (they're largely associated with the ocean, not the air), and sea serpents and basilisks have been referred to as "dragons" too. And mythological creatures that are just real animals with wings and maybe human features are REALLY COMMON. Pegasi, harpies, sphinxes, you name it, people have stuck wings on it. People are fascinated with flight and people make things based on things around them (and reptiles are everywhere). It's not a huge deal, really.

 

I'm a huge sucker for Chinese mythology and I really like the "these are gods who are not to be trifled with" style. Either that or a setting where dragons aren't a huge deal, they're just animals who happen to be there, and are worked organically into the setting instead of everyone going OH MY GOD THEY'RE DRAGONS all the time. Bonding is...ehh, I'm uncertain why dragons would want to hang out with humans in the first place, not only because we're terrible and boring but also because they're apex predators and should really be more concerned with delicious horses, and sometimes it's unintentionally REALLY creepy (like the Eragon series with the permanent bonding where if the human dies the dragon does too).

[Meg_752]

Totally rethinking the whole "bonding" thing. Fractional Pi Day, you brought up some good points. I read the Pern books a long time ago, and that is not what I meant. I didn't actually like those books that much. Bonding is pretty creepy. If dragons were real, they probably wouldn't really interact with people, much less get themselves wrapped up into some weird magic with them.

I guess the reason dragons are still around is, like you said, people like dragons.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Meg_752

[EarlGreyGlitch]

So, this is an old topic - but I just so happen to have come across an article on this. 

     The Origin of Dragons by Robert Bust (2000)

 

I'm actually a library graduate student and some classmates of mine made a LibGuide on dragons for one of our final projects which included this source.  

[Rosedamai]

On 9/23/2014 at 10:00 AM, edwardelricfreak said:

The kirin of Japanese and other Asian cultures is most likely just a giraffe, as the word for "giraffe" in those languages (at least Japanese) is shared with the kirin.

You've got it backwards. The word for mythical creature kirin or qilin or however you want to say that came first, and then giraffes were introduced and people decided to name it after the mythical creature.