Gun rights/control/ownership

[Spelunker]

That picture is genius.

[Vhale]

So, the 3D printed gun that just came out and the plans that were downloaded? The Gov just asked them to remove it. And they have. Bit late imo, apparently it's already on Pirate Bay. One Article

 

"#DEFCAD is going dark at the request of the SOD Department of Defense Trade Controls," Defense Distributed's founder Cody Wilson Tweeted Thursday morning. "Some shapes are more dangerous than others."

[Fuzzbucket]

So, the 3D printed gun that just came out and the plans that were downloaded? The Gov just asked them to remove it. And they have. Bit late imo, apparently it's already on Pirate Bay. One Article

 

"#DEFCAD is going dark at the request of the SOD Department of Defense Trade Controls," Defense Distributed's founder Cody Wilson Tweeted Thursday morning. "Some shapes are more dangerous than others."

If it was ever on the interwebz, it will be for EVAH. so....

[Whirlaway]

I'm just saying I LOVE my guns and I really believe that it is dumb *someone* wants to take away gun rights from people. I mean what if you use guns for hunting or enjoyment and why should they be stollen from us!

[KageSora]

I'm just saying I LOVE my guns and I really believe that it is dumb *someone* wants to take away gun rights from people. I mean what if you use guns for hunting or enjoyment and why should they be stollen from us!

If you'll pay attention, you'll notice the majority of people who are pro-gun control are anti-"take all guns from everybody forever no guns for anything".

 

We want reasonable restriction increases. You do not need military-grade weaponry for hunting or self-defense. You should have to attend prove that you know how to safely store, care for, clean, etc. your guns and your ammo in order to obtain a license and you should be required to re-demonstrate this regularly to keep your license. You should pass regular mental health checks to ensure that you're stable.

 

If you are already a responsible gun owner, then you shouldn't have anything to fear from the tightening of control most of us want to see/

[pikapooka]

I disagree. The people who own nice guns like AK-47 's usually are great people. Yes every now and then one gets into the wrong hands. We don't want you taking away our ak's and ar's. They are great guns usually with sentimental value. Gun violence has decreased over the years. Yeah it seems like there is a ton, but that's because that's the only thing being reported these days. Who's doing the inspections?

 

The people who responsibly own guns. A criminal isn't gonna take an exam to legally own a gun. He'll just get one.

[Riverwillows]

Why does anyone need to own a military grade weapon? Military grade weapons belong in the Military. Not the civilians.

 

Why don't we just give those people nuclear weapons while we are at it? Let them own armed tanks.

 

"Oh yeah, man, next time that dog from next door dumps on my lawn, it's crispy fried Fido for sure!"

 

You need an assault rifle why? To hunt deer? Won't be nothing left if you do. I've heard all the excuses. Still haven't convinced me there is a reason for civilians to own Military grade weapons.

 

It just doesn't make sense.

[KageSora]

Agreed. No civilian needs military-grade weaponry. It's overkill, plain and simple.

[TikindiDragon]

I disagree. The people who own nice guns like AK-47 's usually are great people. Yes every now and then one gets into the wrong hands. We don't want you taking away our ak's and ar's. They are great guns usually with sentimental value. Gun violence has decreased over the years. Yeah it seems like there is a ton, but that's because that's the only thing being reported these days. Who's doing the inspections?

 

The people who responsibly own guns. A criminal isn't gonna take an exam to legally own a gun. He'll just get one.

Pika do try and read everything. You'll notice that most of these things have a grandfather clause meaning you could keep anything you currently had - you just wouldn't be able to replace them. No one is going to come to your house and take your guns from you. Geeze.

 

Incidently I've handled AKs. They are better guns than the SA80, IMHO. But there simply is no need for a civillian to own a military-grade weapon. And about the only reasoning people ever seem to come up with is "I want them!". Well, frankly, my mother raised me on the theory of 'I want doesn't get'. Just because you want something doesn't mean you should be able to get it (I, for one, would like a fighter jet. Doesn't mean I can have one).

 

Either that or they come up with the 'we need them to resist the government!' argument. And, really, that makes no sense either - because it doesn't matter what sort of weapon you are packing against drones, air strikes and heavily armoured tanks. If the government was really out to get it, it would have no trouble doing so no matter how many millitary guns you owned.

[Shienvien]

Only finally SHOT a couple of days ago though.

I had read of similar functional guns before. Granted, some of those had a bit more than just the pin made of metal, but those things have been around for at least a year. Just not it has finally been more widely showcased.

 

As for the various restrictions on gun types... As I said, I agree that some restrictions should stay in place (fully automatics are not good for either hunting or sports or self-defence - hence a civilian obtaining a fully functional one isn't reasonable), but I still feel that some of the (proposed) limits are unnecessarily restrictive.

 

 

[pikapooka]

If those restrictions were put into place, we wouldn't be able to use them. We may not be able to get bullets for them. It isn't right, because the only people it is going to restrict is the law abiding people! Honestly, if there were a way to prevent the nutheads from getting guns, I'd vote for it (when I turn 18. 4 years to go). But the military grade weapons would be put on the black market, and only the bad guys would have them, as they would be rendered useless to civillians.

 

 

Plus, if the government dies fall... I wanna be prepared

[KageSora]

Please explain to me how having a military-grade weapon is going to be so much better for you than having a civilian-grade weapon. Please, I really want to hear how your fully automatic weapon is going to kill more deer than a weapon designed for hunting. Or how having a fully automatic weapon is going to defend your home more than a semi-auto. Or how you need a military-grade sniper.

 

Actually, what's a legit reason for owning a sniper outside of collections? Are they good for certain types of hunting? Serious question--I don't usually hear people talk about sniper rifles, so I'm not sure why you'd own one?

[Shienvien]

Actually, what's a legit reason for owning a sniper outside of collections? Are they good for certain types of hunting? Serious question--I don't usually hear people talk about sniper rifles, so I'm not sure why you'd own one?

Technically, yes, one could be used for hunting long-range... Sniping isn't quite as easy as movies tend to portray it, though, even if we leave costs aside for the time being.

 

But yes: Full-auto is not good for hunting, sports or self-defense.

[KageSora]

Technically, yes, one could be used for hunting long-range... Sniping isn't quite as easy as movies tend to portray it, though, even if we leave costs aside for the time being.

Oh, I know. There's a crazy amount of stuff you have to take into consideration like distance, air resistance, gravity, and all kinds of stuff. IIRC, you actually have to aim somewhat above where you want to hit because the bullet will fall as it loses speed due to air resistance and gravity, right?

[Shienvien]

You actually have to aim somewhat above where you want to hit because the bullet will fall as it loses speed due to air resistance and gravity, right?

Yes, that's true. And most likely also significantly to the left or right, too, because of the wind...

[TikindiDragon]

If those restrictions were put into place, we wouldn't be able to use them. We may not be able to get bullets for them. It isn't right, because the only people it is going to restrict is the law abiding people! Honestly, if there were a way to prevent the nutheads from getting guns, I'd vote for it (when I turn 18. 4 years to go). But the military grade weapons would be put on the black market, and only the bad guys would have them, as they would be rendered useless to civillians.

 

 

Plus, if the government dies fall... I wanna be prepared

You're still boiling down to "I want" as an argument here. I already told you that won't wash.

 

A rifle that should be fully auto-matic that has been medified so it can only be a semi- can quite easily be modified back again if you know what you are doing. And taken such guns out of legal crculation *will* start to get those guns out of the hands of the criminal population too.

 

Funnily enough while there *are* illegal guns in the UK the vast majority are handguns (that can be hidden and transported easily). Criminals, as a general rule, don't want military grade weapons either. Expect for shooting each other, anyway.

[Kai]

probably wouldn't mind a p90 or some nice smg though

[Vhale]

So, the latest NRA Convention featured special targets. One of them was the "Ex Girlfriend"

A buxom woman that bleeds when you shoot her. It's supposed to be a zombie, but sure doesn't look like most zombies I've seen. Looks like a woman that got punched in the mouth.

 

 

Article

 

Violence against women, particularly by intimate partners, is a huge problem in America. In fact, "Domestic violence is the leading cause of injury to women – more than car accidents, muggings, and rapes combined."  In 2010, nearly six times more women were shot by and killed by husbands or intimate acquaintances than were killed by male strangers. It's not surprising, considering a woman's chances of being killed by her abuser multiply by more than seven if he has access to a firearm.

 

In America, women are targets, especially when it comes to guns.

 

As Elizabeth Plank writes in PolicyMic,

 

    Gun violence is a gendered issue since it impacts women and men in very different ways. Because women are more vulnerable to violence within the home than men (and men are most often the perpetrators of violence against women), the presence of a gun makes females less safe, not more. How do we know? A woman's  likelyhood of a  violent death within the home actually increases by 270% when a gun is kept inside the house. Homicide  figures don't lie. Having a gun within their possession didn't protect women from murder. In fact, it accurately predicted their higher likelyhood of death.

 

If you don't like what you see there,

recommends all justifiably outraged folk ping Zombie Industries on Twitter ( @ZombieInd), using the hash tag #NotBuyingIt. 

 

And if you need another source, here is one: NRA Removing protections for Abuse Victims

[Fuzzbucket]

Vhale - thank you for making me feel physically sick.

 

Pika - let's hope for your sake that you are never the ex-girlfriend of an NRA member...

[Kestra15]

Oh, I know. There's a crazy amount of stuff you have to take into consideration like distance, air resistance, gravity, and all kinds of stuff. IIRC, you actually have to aim somewhat above where you want to hit because the bullet will fall as it loses speed due to air resistance and gravity, right?

Actually no, not as much as people may think. You have to have a round travel a significant distance (more than it realistically can) for gravity to have a significant effect, and similarly for wind speeds etc; you'd need to be firing through a tornado for the round to be unduly effected by cross-winds. The round is a very small projectile travelling close to the speed of sound after all. Air resistance is pointless to calculate as it's as good as constant, since the shape of the projectile and again its speed (especially in relation to its cross-section) is again negligible. The real skill in sniping is holding your position, keeping steady, timing your shot etc.

[Blear]

One thing I don't understand is that America allows people to have instruments of killing in their homes but they ban things like kinder eggs? :/ it's a strange parallel to draw but if you don't trust someone with a toy in a candy egg then why a gun? (I know kids can't have guns but kinder eggs are banned for everyone, adults too)

 

[Fuzzbucket]

One thing I don't understand is that America allows people to have instruments of killing in their homes but they ban things like kinder eggs? :/ it's a strange parallel to draw but if you don't trust someone with a toy in a candy egg then why a gun? (I know kids can't have guns but kinder eggs are banned for everyone, adults too)

ACTUALLY while I don't think kids should have guns AT ALL, the kinder egg thing is virtually over:

 

http://gawker.com/5990806/us-ban-on-kinder...ly-lifted-kinda

[Shienvien]

The real skill in sniping is holding your position, keeping steady, timing your shot etc.

A bullet being small means that it has lesser momentum, too. Gravity is not that much of a factor, true, but everything else still is. Note that we are speaking of a much greater distance than your average shooting range here.

[Alpha1]

Actually no, not as much as people may think. You have to have a round travel a significant distance (more than it realistically can) for gravity to have a significant effect, and similarly for wind speeds etc; you'd need to be firing through a tornado for the round to be unduly effected by cross-winds. The round is a very small projectile travelling close to the speed of sound after all. Air resistance is pointless to calculate as it's as good as constant, since the shape of the projectile and again its speed (especially in relation to its cross-section) is again negligible. The real skill in sniping is holding your position, keeping steady, timing your shot etc.

 

The common hunting cartridges like .270 Win and 30-06 will drop about 40 inches (depending on weight and the ballistic coefficient of the bullet) at 500 yards if zeroed at 200.

 

You don't need a tornado to alter a bullet's path either.

 

.308" -165gr spitzer boattail 2800fps -30mph wind-

100 yards -- 2.09" 200yards -- 8.64"

.308" -180gr round nose 2800fps -30mph wind-

100yards -- 3.83" 200yards -- 16.39"

 

 

 

[Riverwillows]

The idea of civilians needing AK-47's to "protect their homes" or for "hunting", reminds me of Monty Python:

 

Overkill much?? lol