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Are humans more important than animals?

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Just a quick thought on this after skimming through the posts. I don't really look at humans as being more important anymore than I look at animals as being more important. If anything I think of us as animals as well. We just happen to be very intelligent animals, able to communicate, and capable of building amazing things. I've seen many people who mean well, and really do want to help others, and have little to no interest in themselves. You could say there are people who end up harming others without meaning to, but their heart was still in the right place. Unfortunately I've also seen people who are outright greedy, selfish, mean, cruel, racist, etc. I've found the direction this world is going to be quite discouraging, and even scary. There are times I have questioned my faith in humanity, and have had a hard time recognizing the good in others. But that doesn't mean I have completely given up all hope. I also have to recognize I'm a human being myself, and that I have done things I shouldn't have, and have even caused others pain. Having said that, I have wondered if this world would be better off without human beings. But the way I look at it, is we do exist, and so whatever happens just happens, and that's just the way life is.

 

My thoughts on animals are a little different. Like humans, animals are imperfect, and they also share a lot of similarities, both positive and negative. Being a cat lover, I can say that even cats can seem cruel in their own way, knowing some of them like to play with their prey they catch before killing them. But then I can say my cat is probably the best friend I've ever had, since she never abandoned me, or judged me, or pointed out any of my faults, or told me what a terrible person I am. She only shows me a lot of love and affection. But then I like to think that's because I raised her with a lot of love, and affection, and no discipline at all. Because she was sort of a leave-me-alone touch-me-not kind of cat when I adopted her as a kitten.

 

It is hard to consider humans as more important since a lot of people have hurt others, and caused others pain, and have known very well what they were doing, while animals mostly go by instinct. But a lot of us have also been very helpful, and kind, and understanding toward others. For me, I like to consider all life to be important, humans, animals, and even insects.

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Humans are animals.

the animals living in your area are important to the eco system or what ever it's called, if we got rid of spiders there will be lots of fly's everywhere.

Edited by zorua9

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I think we're valid critters, and our experience is, as far as we know, somewhat unique in the universe. We're introspective and self aware and I think that's beautiful. We could do a lot more to respect the natural world around us, but moreover I think we could learn to reconcile with nature and recognize our place in it.

 

I think this question is erroneously framed. We ARE animals. We deserve to exist as much as any other thing does.

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Oh humanity. How I hate you. Many aspects of you, at least.

 

But I agree with Marrionetta. We desverve to exist, I just wish that humanity could tone down their feel of superiority a little bit.

 

Despite being complex and clever, we really don't fit in with nature anymore...

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And another thing is, animals do have feelings. Tigers and stuff know when they're starving, can't find a mate, and are being hunted. Why is hunting animals even necessary? Most people say they hunt deer because they're overpopulated but still hunt wolves, which benefit animals like bears and beavers. Bears help keep trees healthy which keeps squirrels and bears healthy. Beaver ponds provide a god water source and vegetation for animals like moose. I watched a documentary about beavers, and they're a biodiversity magnet. Nkt to mention that hunting wolves cajses them to hunt livestock, which hurts humans' way of life and kills more wolves.

 

Plus, there are people who shoot orcas for stealing fish. Orcas have stronger family ties than humans, and are probably almost as if not as intelligent as humans. Murder.

 

And people who abuse animals. By beating them, or whatever. I saw on TV where a kitten lost it's paws because someone wound rubber bands super tight around its ankles.

 

Humans are definantly as important as other animals, but animals need some serious awareness. Humans aren't going extinct any time soon, but tigers are.

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And another thing is, animals do have feelings. Tigers and stuff know when they're starving, can't find a mate, and are being hunted. Why is hunting animals even necessary? Most people say they hunt deer because they're overpopulated but still hunt wolves, which benefit animals like bears and beavers. Bears help keep trees healthy which keeps squirrels and bears healthy. Beaver ponds provide a god water source and vegetation for animals like moose. I watched a documentary about beavers, and they're a biodiversity magnet. Nkt to mention that hunting wolves cajses them to hunt livestock, which hurts humans' way of life and kills more wolves.

 

Plus, there are people who shoot orcas for stealing fish. Orcas have stronger family ties than humans, and are probably almost as if not as intelligent as humans. Murder.

 

And people who abuse animals. By beating them, or whatever. I saw on TV where a kitten lost it's paws because someone wound rubber bands super tight around its ankles.

 

Humans are definantly as important as other animals, but animals need some serious awareness. Humans aren't going extinct any time soon, but tigers are.

Wolves can get overpopulated the same way any other animal can. Hunting them doesn't inherently cause them to target livestock, either. I believe animals do experience emotions, but your examples of "knowing they're hungry" isn't an emotion. Animals do need protecting, but it doesn't do much good to humanize them past the realistic point.

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Wolves can get overpopulated the same way any other animal can. Hunting them doesn't inherently cause them to target livestock, either. I believe animals do experience emotions, but your examples of "knowing they're hungry" isn't an emotion. Animals do need protecting, but it doesn't do much good to humanize them past the realistic point.

Animals are sentient to extent, however. Of course, they cannot think cognitively and therefore the emotions that they may be capable of could not run very deep. I don't have any sources so this post should probably taken with a grain of salt. But meh, just my onion

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^^; ah well I'm a tad biased since I hate humans more than anything in existence.... and animals are the only creatures that show any signs of kindness towards me in RL.

:3 if I had the chance or power I'd would be happy to eliminate human life off the planet.

 

but~ since I haven't that power and I do feel protective towards some humans that I know well I would save them over random animals that I don't feel a close bond for.

 

I feel donating to one cause over the other is more important though since something as simple as $15 is much more helpful than saving one creature over another... I guess I would send some money to human charities? maybe? there's more animals than people... so I feel that they should get more. personally I prolly wouldn't donate to animal specific charities because certain less desirable animals like... boring looking fish or frogs are more important to the ecosystem than certain creatures that get a lot of facetime.

 

Animals are sentient to extent, however. Of course, they cannot think cognitively and therefore the emotions that they may be capable of could not run very deep. I don't have any sources so this post should probably taken with a grain of salt. But meh, just my onion

eh... my dogs wouldn't really agree they certainly have the cognitive ability to know that they've done something bad that I've never told them was bad, and get really excited and happy to see me when I come back home after months. (and I'm not one that feeds them off my plate like my dad)

:l my mom on the other hand........................ doesn't seem to understand that some of her actions are bad, and when I've been gone for months and come home doesn't seem to want to hang out with me at all. (same with my sister...)

 

but I guess that's a bit extreme. and the example doesn't work for many animals... so I guess take my opinion with a grain o salt as well.

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Wolves can get overpopulated the same way any other animal can. Hunting them doesn't inherently cause them to target livestock, either. I believe animals do experience emotions, but your examples of "knowing they're hungry" isn't an emotion. Animals do need protecting, but it doesn't do much good to humanize them past the realistic point.

You speak like facts. I have seen, multiple places, on my five-year study of wolves, that hunting does cause wolves to hunt livestock due to pack reduction, death of the alphas, or death of a pack's main hunters. And if people just let nature take its course, what gets overpopulated? More wolves=more bears (this has been proven). Bears can steal kills from wolves, kill wolf pups, and sometimes injure adult wolvesn(also proven).

 

And from my research, wolves in the U.S. are not inhumanely mass-hunted due to overpopulation but mainly due to unecessary sport hunting.

 

And I mentioned the starving thing because someone else said that humans knew when they were suffering and tigers didn't. I never said that hunger was an emotion.

 

And when have I humanized animals beyond a realistic point? I have studied wolves for five years, and cetaceans for seven. Yet every time I state facts that I have gathered due to research into the study of wolves, you deny them with things that are not facts as facts. I'm not a pigheaded pro-wolf, the ones who say wolves are soft and cute and fluffy that should never be killed. If there is a pack of wolves threatening human lives or livestock, I realize that they must be removed. However, I oppose the practice of aerial wolf hunting where wolves aren't overpopulated and aren't hurting anyone. Because, wether you want to believe the facts or not, aerial wolf hunting where it is unneeded is inhumane and causes problems for humans and wolves. Especially where wolves are trapped is this killing most cruel, because trapping is legal in several states. The sad part of being a wildlife advocate is that there are always people who refuse to see the truth and form an educated opinion. I've seen a thousand on youtube, and other places online.

 

And if your big arguement is that animals should be hunted because of overpopulation, guess what; humans are the most overpopulated mammal in the world.

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Totally agreeing with igloo.

 

BTW, not that this contributes much, but apparently (Apparently. I'm not sure if its true or not) Hitler emphasized animal rights. He wanted to ban animal hunting because it was cruel and inhumane (hypocritical jerk) and he really, really loved dogs.

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Totally agreeing with igloo.

 

BTW, not that this contributes much, but apparently (Apparently. I'm not sure if its true or not) Hitler emphasized animal rights. He wanted to ban animal hunting because it was cruel and inhumane (hypocritical jerk) and he really, really loved dogs.

I'm not sure how true that is... he experimented with poisons on dogs dry.gif

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Animals are definitely more important. They benefit the earth in so many ways. What do humans do to help the earth? not much. Cars pollute the air, landfills poison the ground and tons of garbage and sludge gets dumped into the oceans.

 

Every animal benefits the earth in some way, but what do humans do? We are so overpopulated. That's why food is getting more scarce, that's why more people have less money. The more people there are the less their is to go around. That goes for money, food, space and everything else.

 

Animals are also merciful. When a lion kills it's only to eat or to defend it's territory. It doesn't do it 'just for the hell of it' or just to get back at someone else. There is no spite in the animal kingdom. Animals don't lie and they don't try to be something they're not.

 

What really angers me is humans building into more forests and wild-land that belongs to creators such as mountain lions and alligators. People freak out that a gator was seen in their neighborhood. Well, hate to burst your bubble, but that land was theirs long before humans moved into it. Same goes for other animals like Bears and Mountain lions. For generations their kind has lived in that area just fine, then along comes the humans and cuts down their homes. It's not their fault, why should they be punished for it?

 

 

As for actual animal attacks on humans. Yes it is horrible and it's something that needs to be dealt with, but you have to think about one thing. Where did the attack take place? A forest trail? a rocky mountain bike path? a camp by the river?

 

These are all places you will run into wild critters. You should expect something big to live in that area and protect yourself accordingly and learn about their natural habits, like when they're most active or if it's the time of season where mothers are raising their young or mating season.

 

Why should people go and hunt for the animal that attacked a human when humans kill animals all the time for no reason at all. Just because they were holding a gun and it was there minding it's own business.

 

Self defense is one thing, if a bear is charging for you and it's attacking you then by all means, defend yourself. But there really isn't a reason for a massive hunt to be launched when chances are they never find the animal responsible and they kill an innocent one just to satisfy the media and scared citizens that want a fast closure.

 

I'm not trying to sound like all humans are evil and we don't contribute to the earth. I'm just saying we could do better.

 

 

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You speak like facts. I have seen, multiple places, on my five-year study of wolves, that hunting does cause wolves to hunt livestock due to pack reduction, death of the alphas, or death of a pack's main hunters. And if people just let nature take its course, what gets overpopulated? More wolves=more bears (this has been proven). Bears can steal kills from wolves, kill wolf pups, and sometimes injure adult wolvesn(also proven).

 

And from my research, wolves in the U.S. are not inhumanely mass-hunted due to overpopulation but mainly due to unecessary sport hunting.

 

And I mentioned the starving thing because someone else said that humans knew when they were suffering and tigers didn't. I never said that hunger was an emotion.

 

And when have I humanized animals beyond a realistic point? I have studied wolves for five years, and cetaceans for seven. Yet every time I state facts that I have gathered due to research into the study of wolves, you deny them with things that are not facts as facts. I'm not a pigheaded pro-wolf, the ones who say wolves are soft and cute and fluffy that should never be killed. If there is a pack of wolves threatening human lives or livestock, I realize that they must be removed. However, I oppose the practice of aerial wolf hunting where wolves aren't overpopulated and aren't hurting anyone. Because, wether you want to believe the facts or not, aerial wolf hunting where it is unneeded is inhumane and causes problems for humans and wolves. Especially where wolves are trapped is this killing most cruel, because trapping is legal in several states. The sad part of being a wildlife advocate is that there are always people who refuse to see the truth and form an educated opinion. I've seen a thousand on youtube, and other places online.

 

And if your big arguement is that animals should be hunted because of overpopulation, guess what; humans are the most overpopulated mammal in the world.

Anecdotal evidence isn't worth much. As I said last time, feel free to bring me some peer-reviewed sources regarding wolf hunting and the changes in behavior that results from it, or legitimate statistics on wolf hunting in North America.

 

Also, not sure what your point is in mentioning humans because I believe that population measures should be taken there too, so you aren't exactly causing me to wildly rethink anything here.

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Anecdotal evidence isn't worth much. As I said last time, feel free to bring me some peer-reviewed sources regarding wolf hunting and the changes in behavior that results from it, or legitimate statistics on wolf hunting in North America.

 

Also, not sure what your point is in mentioning humans because I believe that population measures should be taken there too, so you aren't exactly causing me to wildly rethink anything here.

I can't give you everything seeing as I've gotten my stuff from a captive wolf place that doesn't write down every word they say, but I have this.

 

http://defenders.org

 

I get a lot from the wolf weekly wrapup or whatever. But, sadly, the hunting causes livestock death thing came from my captive place. However, they get a lot of their stuff from defenders, so you mightbe able to dig it up. I just think it'sa tad rude when you automatically discount what you don't want to here as lies or whatever the heck you tell yourself.

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Just because.

Yes, tigers are that important. Much more important than humans, if you ask me. One starving tiger is more important than a thousand starving humans.

Ok, let me explain myself.

In the wilds, weak animals rarely survive to adulthood, so they almost never pass on their weak genes and don't ate the resourses, that they can't return in any way. Lets say, we have a pack of 4 strong and 4 weak wolves, and 100 sheeps. Strong wolves will hunt some sheeps to feed on, weak wolves will starve and after all - die, so only strong wolves will have pups when the time comes. 2 pairs will have round of 8-10 pups, who will grow into 6-8 adults. While they grow, sheeps will reproduce too, so the totals will stay the same - 8-10 adult wolves and 100-110 sheeps.

Now let it be 100 sheeps and 8 humans, 4 strong and 4 weak. Strong human will hunt sheeps, but weak are unable to go hunting, and so strong would hunt FOR THEM AND FOR THEMSELVES, doubling the amount of killed sheeps. As the sheep reproduse in the same rate, they soon would be unable to maintain their numbers, while numbers of humans would increase drasticaly. Balance go to hell, soon all the sheeps would be killed, and all the humans would have no other choise as to follow them.

That it, humanity cannot put itself into logical borders. We rather screw the natural balance and lead the whole planet to self-distruction, than to keep our greed caged.

 

Anyway, just an IMHO. I vote for tigers.

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Look, being the biggest pro animal rights guy I know, I am very biased towards animals. But the thing is we aren't wolves and we aren't bears, we are humans and in order for almost any species I survive it must work with others of its kind in some way, however minute. We need to care for our own as much as animals need to care for theirs. We need moderation, not segregation, and being catholic I believe we are all equals in God's eyes and so I believe we need to love fellow man and help fellow man, but also help follow creature. After all... We're all just animals, aren't we?

 

 

 

 

 

(Ps this was pretty ranty so please don't take everything personally, this is just me finding a way to express my opinion, thank you.)

Edited by Htt71

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I can't give you everything seeing as I've gotten my stuff from a captive wolf place that doesn't write down every word they say, but I have this.

 

http://defenders.org

 

I get a lot from the wolf weekly wrapup or whatever. But, sadly, the hunting causes livestock death thing came from my captive place. However, they get a lot of their stuff from defenders, so you mightbe able to dig it up. I just think it'sa tad rude when you automatically discount what you don't want to here as lies or whatever the heck you tell yourself.

Funny, that's exactly what I think about you. I'd be happy to read any academic studies and statistics but it doesn't seem like there really are any. The website you provided doesn't really have the kind of info I'm looking for either. You say that wolfs don't need population control, or that most wolf hunting is not even done for population control. Where is that statistic coming from? Do you have statistics of the amount of kills made for sport reasons versus the amount of kills made for population control? Or did someone on a YouTube video say that once. If you say that wolf hunting just exacerbates situations by increasing livestock kills, but don't have anything to back that up, I'm going to continuing asserting that external factors beyond hunting are what results in livestock issues.

Edited by 7Deadly$ins

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You speak like facts. I have seen, multiple places, on my five-year study of wolves, that hunting does cause wolves to hunt livestock due to pack reduction, death of the alphas, or death of a pack's main hunters. And if people just let nature take its course, what gets overpopulated? More wolves=more bears (this has been proven). Bears can steal kills from wolves, kill wolf pups, and sometimes injure adult wolvesn(also proven).

 

And from my research, wolves in the U.S. are not inhumanely mass-hunted due to overpopulation but mainly due to unecessary sport hunting.

 

And I mentioned the starving thing because someone else said that humans knew when they were suffering and tigers didn't. I never said that hunger was an emotion.

 

And when have I humanized animals beyond a realistic point? I have studied wolves for five years, and cetaceans for seven. Yet every time I state facts that I have gathered due to research into the study of wolves, you deny them with things that are not facts as facts. I'm not a pigheaded pro-wolf, the ones who say wolves are soft and cute and fluffy that should never be killed. If there is a pack of wolves threatening human lives or livestock, I realize that they must be removed. However, I oppose the practice of aerial wolf hunting where wolves aren't overpopulated and aren't hurting anyone. Because, wether you want to believe the facts or not, aerial wolf hunting where it is unneeded is inhumane and causes problems for humans and wolves. Especially where wolves are trapped is this killing most cruel, because trapping is legal in several states. The sad part of being a wildlife advocate is that there are always people who refuse to see the truth and form an educated opinion. I've seen a thousand on youtube, and other places online.

 

And if your big arguement is that animals should be hunted because of overpopulation, guess what; humans are the most overpopulated mammal in the world.

Some of this stuff sounds really interesting to read about if it true. Good thing about college is I get access to research databases. If you wanna rattle off some titles/authors from the research you've been doing for years, I might file it away for use in reading later. Or hey, maybe some of them are free to access anyway and anybody in the thread could read the papers.

 

 

~

 

 

I guess it depends on what terms we're talking about. I won't say humans are more important than other animals or vise versa but if I have to choose between helping an animal and helping a human, I'm going to go with my own species. And yeah, I do prioritize things like fighting rape culture over fighting animal poaching.

 

So it's a good thing humans are capable of caring for more than one thing at a time. I care about animal cruelty, for example, but I'm definitely more focused on fighting racism, sexism, etc.

 

My sister is turning into a PETA-type extremist at the moment, which makes me sad. I do hope she can grow out of it and learn to research a leetle better.

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To 7, I'll work on finding the newsletter where it says the whole livestock thing today.

 

I learned what I know of aerual hunting and the reasoning behind it from videos that defenders made. I have read.....hold on, let me go upstairs real quick......

 

Wolves by Shawn Ellis (with photigraphy by Monty Sloan, who I know personally which I think is cool), Wolves by Francesco Cesoni and Giovanni Fasoli, but these mostly cover behavior and stuff. They're very interesting, though.

 

But I get a lot of info from my newsletter so I'll try to dig up some good ones, which might take a while because I have a very messy closet.

 

I've also watched several documentaries about wolves.

 

Here, http://wolfpark.org , is where I see my wolves and where I have learned everything, including my interest in wolves. It has some seminar material that talks about wolves and is very interesting.

Edited by igloo9201

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I'd say humans, but I'm not all for just willy-nilly being cruel to animals. I like animals, but if the human race were in jeopardy I'd have my family as a priority. That's all. I don't go out and drown puppies or kick sheep in the shins, I just feel I'm closer to my family than my cat. But I love them both.

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Here's an interesting, albeit biased, writing of such things. http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012...ves-you-maniacs

 

Skip down to wolf hunting today and North America is at the bottom. Very interesting. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_hunting

 

Fus. Roh. Dah. http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013...niststribe.html

 

Even the idiots at CNN wrote an article: http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/09/03/wolf.hunt/

 

Sadness: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE9...130512?irpc=932

 

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/...tes-sale-151512

 

OOOOWNED! HAH HAH read THIS one, seven. Read the the whole thing!!!

 

http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2011/09/01/...orally-corrupt/

 

Booyaka! That's how you shove the truth into someone's face WOLF STYLE, BABY!!!

 

Interesting http://www.aws.vcn.com/wolves_and_hunting.html

 

Increased depredation again mentioned, but discounted, here: http://m.magicvalley.com/news/local/confli...bile_touch=true

 

And on that one, their study of packs that stay together 90% is a gumwad of crap. Sure, if one wolf dies. But what if it was the alpha female, who organizes all of the hunting, eh?

 

Increased depredation mentioned again.

 

http://www.howlingforwolves.org/news/lives...ng-and-trapping

Edited by igloo9201

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Having lived and worked on a farm almost all my life I can confidently say that animals are more important than humans. Humans are pretty much nothing but a detriment to Earth, while animals are essential.

 

That said, if an animal was attacking my family, I'd dispose of it without a second thought.

 

If I had $1000 to divide between an animal charity, I'd send 800 to the animal charity, and say "F you" to the human one, and instead personally feed and clothe a few people who need it with the remaining $200, since if you give it to a charity, only about $50 of that would actually go to help anyone but themselves.

Edited by unforgotten13

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