Have Alts buyable from the market

[Brite]

1 hour ago, Charity322 said:

I've tried trading. People are asking for CB Golds or Stateraes in a trade for white vespines. That 100% rules me out of ever getting one in a trade.

 

I really don't get the difference between rare alts and rare breeds like Golds. Why would it be bad if a market alt cost the same as a Gold? Noone is saying that the market is ruining the fun of having it be really difficult to get a Gold from the cave.

 

But then I'd honestly prefer every breed to be accessible. Having hard to catch breeds just isn't fun at all for me. If I can sign a waiver saying that I don't want to compete at all can I just have access to all the breeds lol?

I do feel this pain. And I'll admit the fact that white vespines are completely random in the market still leaves a sour taste in my mouth. The idea of one being similar in cost to Golds doesn't sound like a terrible idea...

[blinkdog]

2 hours ago, Charity322 said:

But then I'd honestly prefer every breed to be accessible. Having hard to catch breeds just isn't fun at all for me. If I can sign a waiver saying that I don't want to compete at all can I just have access to all the breeds lol?

 

If the alts in question were available in the market, even at a steep price, it would skew the ratios terribly for the cave. I don’t think it would be fair to bias any alt eggs to players with big shard stockpiles (it would take 7.5 months to save up 3000 shards - the usual price of a gold egg). Especially since the market was never really supposed to completely replace hunting in the cave. Eventually it could lead to a situation like stats, where they are near absent from the cave.

 

Just based on my own Vespines (because that seems to be the main one people are hung up on) theres a roughly 17% chance of getting an alt vesp from the cave. With current market prices, rounding up to make it even, you could buy 15 vespine eggs for the price of 1 gold egg, if you’re willing to spend that much on an alt. Honestly, your odds are pretty good that you’ll end up with at least one, maybe two alt vesp eggs. 

 

I know it is frustrating to not get the egg you want for shards. It’s months of time spent as a currency. But cave hunters put a lot of time into getting the eggs they want, too. Risk and challenge is a part of the game, and it’s part of what makes DragCave fun for a lot of players. I encourage you to not give up - the alts you seek are out there!

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by blinkdog

[zippuzzle]

3 hours ago, Charity322 said:

I've tried trading. People are asking for CB Golds or Stateraes in a trade for white vespines. That 100% rules me out of ever getting one in a trade.

That's still because the Vespines are still 'new and exciting'. Look at what people are asking for in trades with the older alts. White Vespines aren't there YET but that doesn't mean you'll never be able to get one in a trade. It also doesn't necessarily mean anyone is actually getting multiple CB Golds and Stats for them, just that the person who listed the trade hopes someone will give them that. I've seen people ask for a CB Stat in exchange for a super messy inbred z'code egg they dug out of the AP, because I guess they thought z'code collectors were desperate for anything with a z in it, but that doesn't make Stats the going rate for messy AP eggs ^^;

[Guillotine]

Reasonable trades also tend to go quickly, while unreasonable ones will sit for days on end. It tends to skew appearances a bit.

[StarlightLion]

I admit that the artists' intentions for those breeds should matter when deciding if they should be available separately in the Marketplace.

That said, there really is no difference between having those alts available and having any other rare egg available. There's no thrill in wondering if you're wasting hard-earned currency. When we hunt in the Cave, we're agreeing to the inherent gamble and chance therein - the Cave is a competitive place, and you have to gamble whether you'll hit the right biome, whether you'll see the right description, whether you'll process what dragon that description is fast enough, and whether you'll be the first person to click on it.

The Marketplace is not the Cave and it shouldn't be treated as if it is. We don't use the Marketplace as a place to gamble. That's neither the intention nor the agreement we as players make when we interact with it. Shards are an incredibly scarce resource, and they're not a passive resource either, we have to earn them through action within the game. The Marketplace is where we can find a guarantee to get the eggs that we can't find through the aforementioned gamble within the Cave. It's essentially a safety net to make sure that, eventually, we can get the exact eggs we want for our scroll goals and projects. Creating this situation where we can spend loads and loads of Shards and not get what we're trying to purchase just strikes me as counterproductive and needlessly aggravating. Why would I ever waste Shards on the alts I'm missing when I can get other, much more valuable eggs guaranteed. I would sooner buy Xenowyrms (and I usually don't have too difficult a time getting Xenos from the Cave) than roll the dice on Marketplace alts. Not to mention if I'm purchasing the standard morph and get an alt instead. I understand that's how the mechanic works in the Cave, but the Marketplace is not the Cave. If I wanted to gamble, I'd hunt. I'm not spending Shards on gambling.

[KageSora]

22 hours ago, blinkdog said:

But cave hunters put a lot of time into getting the eggs they want, too.

 

Just to point out, many of those who use the market are also those who've put a lot of time into hunting the cave for the eggs they want, they've just been forced to give up after months or years of not even seeing the dragons they're after much less being the one to successfully grab it.

 

I've spent countless hours hunting in the cave for multiple lineage projects.  There are still eggs that, despite plenty of time scouring the cave, I have not seen CB in years.  Quite frankly I don't think I've even seen a CB gold in the cave in over a decade.  I don't think I've seen a CB Stat ever.  I hunt the cave and the AP extensively for multiple lineages.  In the end I still end up having to go to the market as the only prayer I have of getting the CBs I need to work on various projects.  Which doesn't help when it takes several weeks or months to save up for one dragon I need.  It's still a slow, painful process of saving up the same way it's a slow, painful process of even trying to see (much less click on) a variety of eggs in the cave.

  

On 10/11/2023 at 8:19 AM, zippuzzle said:

I do agree that perhaps an indicator might be beneficial here, having a clear warning might help folks who were confused avoid 'wasting' shards?

 

I don't think most people are "confused", I think most are annoyed because we have to chose between using the shards to actually get dragons we know we want but that take weeks or months to save up for, or throwing all those down the drain hoping for an alt and then in most cases ending up with a bunch of dragons we can't even gift or trade because they're locked to our scrolls unless we dump them.  While hunting the cave (or breeding, for those not looking for CBs) and coming up empty-handed all the same.

 

Personally speaking, I'd be less annoyed if there was a "return the dragon to the market for at least a partial refund" option.  As it is they may as well not give alts at all for all that I'll ever bother throwing my shards down the drain on them when I could be buying stuff like an Aeon for a breeding project.

 

10 hours ago, StarlightLion said:

That said, there really is no difference between having those alts available and having any other rare egg available. There's no thrill in wondering if you're wasting hard-earned currency.

 

Same.  If the argument is "having alts in the market cheapens the thrill of getting one in the cave" then quite frankly the entire market should go because it's very existence also "cheapens" the thrill of getting things in the cave.

 

Also, as to alt rates, some of them have some pretty grim odds of getting an alt.  While I was collecting purple ridgewings for a lineage, I needed 128 CBs.  I picked up more than that because I reflexively grabbed some even after I finished the CBs.  Out of that, probably 5 or less were tan.  You'd have to pay me real life money to convince me to throw my shards away in the market on odds like that if I were trying to get an alt.  Different breeds will have different rates I'm sure, but again.  The odds of actually getting an alt are so low compared to the amount of time needed to save up the shards you gamble it's just not worth it at all to bother with.  I'd honestly rather see dragons that have randomized alts removed entirely from the market than have them up for gamble with such an incredibly limited resource as shards.

 

It's be less of an issue if shards were a much more plentiful resource (and prices were as they still are), but with how limited they are and how they're not passively obtained...  The market is completely worthless for getting those dragons.

Edited October 13, 2023 by KageSora
Forgot a very important word

[Charity322]

Does having Golds and other rares in the market not skew the ratios for the Cave?

[deleted_account]

Our documented numbers for white Vespines from Market:

I got 0/12 in quickest purchase succession (run out of Shards)

my wife got 0/24 in quickest purhase succession very soon after me, stopped counting after that

so 0/36 for 1 household... 

I remember most comments were from players who got 1 white from 1-8 Market eggs or 0 whites from 8 Market eggs.

Classic very unfair gamble/lottery mechanic (this is far from the Monthly Raffle level!). If you loose, you loose more than you invest (here: invest very limited currency, get no reward, be no longer able to buy something else you want and could affford before gambling), so no support for that to stay like this in the Market

 

what happened in our household is not what anyone should or would like to experience!

 

so support for this suggestion 

to make it fair and even price for everyone, not 200 shards for some to get 1 alt and a few thousands (e.g. almost 5k(!) for my wife) for some other to still get 0 alts

Edited October 20, 2023 by Bialy