Remove Sickness (or somehow change it drastically)

[solairehighwind]

Just now, Dragon_Arbock said:

 

And this is where the API and the hatcheries need to be changed- nobody but you should be able to add your scroll anywhere- but again if I'm properly monitoring my eggs and not unfogging them or adding them anywhere before 4 days, a personal attack cannot happen.

 

Also the ward page shows all your eggs unfogged, if you really want to see them unfogged. I'd like it if hatchlings could be there too, but I'm not gonna complain. Things only take 6 to 7 days to grow from egg to adult anyway. You can look at in unfogged when it's an adult, or you can freeze it.

 

By the way, hatcheries aren't the only way viewbombing can happen; you could put the egg's view code on any page and then use certain extensions to viewbomb it. VB'ers aren't practical and will go out of their way to 'bomb if they have to; one group even made their own website dedicated to bombing, lol.

[tjekan]

2 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

And this is where the API and the hatcheries need to be changed- nobody but you should be able to add your scroll anywhere-

 

Viewbombers have click-spam mechanisms that are not official hatcheries and therefore will never be bound by any rules imposed upon hatcheries.

[Dragon_Arbock]

1 minute ago, lolahighwind said:

 

By the way, hatcheries aren't the only way viewbombing can happen; you could put the egg's view code on any page and then use certain extensions to viewbomb it. VB'ers aren't practical and will go out of their way to 'bomb if they have to; one group even made their own website dedicated to bombing, lol.

 

They still can't do it if you fog it. I have literally had no problems since I've started fogging things 24/7 so I see no problems with sickness.

Literally the only problem that I can understand being a problem is with trading- and not even just sickness with trading, the fact that you can hatch people's eggs that are in trades or make their hatchlings grow.

[Cinspawn]

5 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

 

And this is where the API and the hatcheries need to be changed- nobody but you should be able to add your scroll anywhere- but again if I'm properly monitoring my eggs and not unfogging them or adding them anywhere before 4 days, a personal attack cannot happen.

 

Also the ward page shows all your eggs unfogged, if you really want to see them unfogged. I'd like it if hatchlings could be there too, but I'm not gonna complain. Things only take 6 to 7 days to grow from egg to adult anyway. You can look at in unfogged when it's an adult, or you can freeze it.

(Good) viewbombers don't (only) use hatcheries to viewbomb. So while changing the API would help a little, it won't work for the hardcore viewbombers.

 

If you're not unfogging before 4 days, you are sacrificing your own personal time (cause an egg will take longer than the minimum to hatch) because of viewbombers.

If you're "not adding them anywhere" - I think you mean, partake in ANY social activity here or on the Discord - you are sacrificing fun social parts of the game, because of viewbombers.

If you're hiding your scroll to prevent the above, you are sacrificing social parts (showing off, looking at other people's scroll, discussing what to breed/trade etc) because of viewbombers.

 

All this, because.... why? I still don't understand why you're so fond of the mechanic that hardly ever occurs for experienced players, yet give MASSIVE abuse opportunities.

 

And I don't want to go to the ward page to see my things unfogged. I want to see it in the blink of an eye, just like how I've always seen my scroll. Of course I can find another way to see the sprite, I could google it too and have a look at it there. But that's not the point. The point is we shouldn't have to jump through hoops because of rulebreakers.

[solairehighwind]

By the way, RE: difficulty: 

Dragons dying from bites or from timeout is a lot more fair than dragons dying because you forgot to fog your eggs before bed. It's something you have plenty of opportunity to choose to fix, rather than making 1 tiny mistake. Dragcave isn't supposed to be Dark Souls, lol.

 

Edit: Also Cinspawn is right  

 

Edited December 8, 2018 by lolahighwind

[osmarks]

• Constant fogging is still annoying.
• Again, trading.

[tjekan]

1 minute ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

 

They still can't do it if you fog it. I have literally had no problems since I've started fogging things 24/7 so I see no problems with sickness.

Literally the only problem that I can understand being a problem is with trading- and not even just sickness with trading, the fact that you can hatch people's eggs that are in trades or make their hatchlings grow.

 

You don't think it's a problem that viewbombers can destroy hatcheries like they did to EATW? They didn't have to hack it; requiring logins on that site wouldn't have helped. They click-spammed the hatchery itself until everything people had entered there themselves had died. Then the hatchery folded.

 

All over a mechanism that could be changed within the game itself to prevent third parties from exploiting it in the first place, and which has no discernible gameplay benefit to keeping exactly the way it is.

[Cinspawn]

Also RE: meticulously fogging solves all problems:

 

Quote

And not to mention - this all works great for when we're tiptoeing around the occasional viewbomber. But once someone gets real personal with you they can still kill your dragons in those hours you have left them unfogged. Are you okay with that other people can control whether your dragons live, and harass you via a mechanic that was not implemented to be used that way?

 

[Dragon_Arbock]

4 minutes ago, Cinspawn said:

 

If you're "not adding them anywhere" - I think you mean, partake in ANY social activity here or on the Discord - you are sacrificing fun social parts of the game, because of viewbombers.

If you're hiding your scroll to prevent the above, you are sacrificing social parts (showing off, looking at other people's scroll, discussing what to breed/trade etc) because of viewbombers.

 

..what are these social activities of which you speak? Really, I have no clue. Also I don't hide my whole scroll. Look, it's right in my signature. Highlighted groups and all.

Also, you could just bookmark the ward page, if it's that big of a hang up for you..

 

And @ everyone, I already said trading is an issue that needs to be looked at, but it is the only real issue here as far as I can see.

 

Also @tjekan Even if things can't die of sickness anymore, things can still be ddos'd into not being able to be accessed. they could still shut down hatcheries or even DC itself for a few days if they had the resources

[BrazenChase]

This mechanic is a gift to trolls and griefers. Nothing more.

 

We can't make our eggs hatch any faster than 4 days, and gain nothing from putting things in hatcheries early.

 

All it takes is one person feeling spiteful and they can go on ahead and ruin your scroll if you go to have dinner or dare I say have the gall to fall asleep. Having to constantly fog things is a huge pain, especially when I'm trying to trade. 

 

This mechanic is so easily exploitable to people with malicious intentions. It has nothing but a negative impact on the site and its users and it needs to be either removed or adjusted to be less easily abused.

 

No amount of "it adds challenge!" is going to be enough for people who are being harassed with this mechanic as a vector.

 

Challenge in this game should be obtaining the eggs you're after, breeding ratios, rare hunting, saving up! Not.... Having to guard your things from being destroyed by other players.

 

DC isn't a PvP game but it certainly has come to feel that way recently.

Edited December 8, 2018 by BrazenChase

[osmarks]

Just now, Dragon_Arbock said:

they could still shut down hatcheries or even DC itself for a few days if they had the resources

Oh, sure, but that's significantly harder than just making a thing to click/view eggs in hatcheries, or even just sticking them into them.

[solairehighwind]

Just now, osmarks said:

Oh, sure, but that's significantly harder than just making a thing to click/view eggs in hatcheries, or even just sticking them into them.

 

Yeah  DDoS'ing an entire site is a Lot harder than refreshing a few eggs a lot.

[tjekan]

3 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

Also @tjekan Even if things can't die of sickness anymore, things can still be ddos'd into not being able to be accessed. they could still shut down hatcheries or even DC itself for a few days if they had the resources

 

Yes, but that's temporary. Once the ddos attack ended (and unless the Russian government or something is involved, an attack like that can't be kept up for very long,) the hatchery would be operational again. EATW is gone for good.

Edited December 8, 2018 by tjekan

[Dragon_Arbock]

Just now, tjekan said:

 

Yes, but that's temporary. Once the ddos attack ended, the hatchery would be operational again. EATW is gone for good.

 

I have heard various things about EATW. Something about them having done something not actually allowed by DC outside of the 'viewbombing'. I cannot say for sure, but I do not believe EATW was killed solely by that.
And you know why I can believe they were doing something not okay? When I used to put my dragons in there, it could sometimes tell me the genders of ungendered hatchlings. I don't know how, but it wasn't wrong ever.. so something was up, and they probably had access to things they were not allowed to.

 

EATW is just one hatchery out of several other options anyway, and if DC ever gets its own on-site one there will be no need for any of them.

[osmarks]

1 minute ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

EATW is just one hatchery out of several other options anyway, and if DC ever gets its own on-site one there will be no need for any of them.

Not really. Hatcheries have cool extra tools like inbred checkers, and TJ09 seems to currently be suggesting a mostly useless onsite one.

[Dragon_Arbock]

4 minutes ago, osmarks said:

Not really. Hatcheries have cool extra tools like inbred checkers, and TJ09 seems to currently be suggesting a mostly useless onsite one.

 

You could just check yourself. I know that takes longer, but you could. There's also no reason a tool like that has to be hosted on a hatchery site, but I digress.

 

The bottom line is, if you keep your growing things fogged, nobody can mess with you. It becomes impossible for them to hurt you.

Keep them fooged. Don't put them in hatcheries at 6 days or 5 days, then fog them after the fact. Keep them fogged. These people will get bored if we stop crying about it and giving them attention.

 

Do we need protection for things in trades? Yes, but that's the only thing I think we need that we don't currently have- and not only because of sickness. You don't have to make something in a trade sick to ruin it by hatching it or making it grow because it's low-time.

Edited December 8, 2018 by Dragon_Arbock

[Cinspawn]

8 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

..what are these social activities of which you speak? Really, I have no clue. Also I don't hide my whole scroll. Look, it's right in my signature. Highlighted groups and all.

Also, you could just bookmark the ward page, if it's that big of a hang up for you..

They were in the same quote you quoted above your question. As for not hiding your scroll - that's because you fog everything, which isn't 100% safe without hiding your scroll, too. Again, I'm glad you haven't been a personal victim of VB so far - but that's only a matter of time, sadly. We're trying to prevent that.

 

Also note that your 'solution' involves:

- changing API

- changing the way our scroll look

- hide/unhide all eggs option

- make ward work on hatchlings

- a change in how views work in trades (which might not be even favorable because of Neglecteds)

- an on-site hatchery

- always keep everything fogged for as much time as possible - which also... isn't failproof.

 

instead of removing sickness or nerfing it. All because "it's not that hard to fog" (which, again, isn't failproof without sacrifing other parts of the game).

[BrazenChase]

Just now, Dragon_Arbock said:

 

You could just check yourself. I know that takes longer, but you could. There's also no reason a tool like that has to be hosted on a hatchery site, but I digress.

 

The bottom line is, if you keep your growing things fogged, nobody can mess with you. It becomes impossible for them to hurt you.

Keep them fooged. Don't put them in hateries at 6 days or 5 days, then fog them after the fact. Keep them fogged. These people will get bored if we stop crying about it and giving them attention.

 

Do we need protection for things in trades? Yes, but that's the only thing I think we need that we don't currently have- and not only because of sickness. You don't have to make something in a trade sick to ruin it by hatching it or making it grow because it's low-time.

I fail to see why my main concern on this site should be preventing other people from destroying what I have.

 

Challenge should be things like hunting rare dragons, building long and neat lineages, and setting goals for yourself.

 

Is a culture of paranoia really what you think is healthy for this site? Look at who you are encouraging here.

 

The way you talk is encouraging malicious players, and punishing players who just want to play the game in a relaxed and comfortable manner.

[osmarks]

4 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

 

You could just check yourself. I know that takes longer, but you could. There's also no reason a tool like that has to be hosted on a hatchery site, but I digress.

 

The bottom line is, if you keep your growing things fogged, nobody can mess with you. It becomes impossible for them to hurt you.

They do need API access to work, at the very least.

 

True, but we shouldn't have to to protect from a mechanic almost only used to hurt others. And trade protection would either not be much use or trivialize accidental sickness (when it very occasionally occurs, and what you seem to want to keep for some reason) anyway.

I seem to have mostly avoided being viewbombed so far, despite having an unhidden scroll, my name displayed on dragons' pages and no fogging except if stuff does get sick. This is a nice situation - changing my playstyle to avoid trolling when it could be simply stopped on the site's end would not be a good outcome for me.

Edited December 8, 2018 by osmarks

[solairehighwind]

4 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

 

These people will get bored if we stop crying about it and giving them attention.

 

 

They'll also get bored if sickness is removed, you know  

And like multiple people above have said, we shouldn't have to worry about 1 tiny mistake like forgetting to fog our stuff once killing our dragons. I've had to get up in the middle of the night bc I forgot to fog my eggs, lol.

+ sickness is nearly useless anyway since it mainly happens in viewbombing and to brand-new players who figure it out quickly

Edited December 8, 2018 by lolahighwind

[solairehighwind]

To put it simply: 

The benefits of sickness are small. 

The downsides to sickness are big.

So it's overall a negative.

[Dragon_Arbock]

Just now, Cinspawn said:

They were in the same quote you quoted above your question. As for not hiding your scroll - that's because you fog everything, which isn't 100% safe without hiding your scroll, too. Again, I'm glad you haven't been a personal victim of VB so far - but that's only a matter of time, sadly. We're trying to prevent that.

 

Also note that your 'solution' involves:

- changing API

- changing the way our scroll look

- hide/unhide all eggs option

- make ward work on hatchlings

- a change in how views work in trades (which might not be even favorable because of Neglecteds)

- an on-site hatchery

- always keep everything fogged for as much time as possible - which also... isn't failproof.

 

instead of removing sickness or nerfing it. All because "it's not that hard to fog" (which, again, isn't failproof without sacrifing other parts of the game).

 

Because sickness isn't going to be removed. You need to go for something more realistic. Also no, you don't have to change the look of the scroll.. just putting hatchlings on the 'ward' page, or showing the time left on the 'sort growing things' page would suffice. Breed specific actions already take up an extra line on the 'sort- available for BSA' page, so imagine time there instead.
Hide/unhdie all is already something people have been asking for, and changing the API is something TJ has commented positively on.

 

And again, to everyone. I get sick eggs. I get sick eggs trying to hatch zyus and prizes. I have only ever once gotten a sick egg from a view bomber, and that's because I take care of my items. Sickness has a place in 'normal' gameplay, I see it often enough, not being targeted by anyone.

I don't see why you want the site to be responsible for what you yourselves should be responsible for.

[osmarks]

Prizes and zyus do get sick, but this is just a nuisance which you can deal with pretty easily.

 

And users should not be responsible for avoiding being attacked by others when the site can easily stop it.

[BrazenChase]

1 minute ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

 

Because sickness isn't going to be removed. You need to go for something more realistic. Also no, you don't have to change the look of the scroll.. just putting hatchlings on the 'ward' page, or showing the time left on the 'sort growing things' page would suffice. Breed specific actions already take up an extra line on the 'sort- available for BSA' page, so imagine time there instead.
Hide/unhdie all is already something people have been asking for, and changing the API is something TJ has commented positively on.

 

And again, to everyone. I get sick eggs. I get sick eggs trying to hatch zyus and prizes. I have only ever once gotten a sick egg from a view bomber, and that's because I take care of my items. Sickness has a place in 'normal' gameplay, I see it often enough, not being targeted by anyone.

I don't see why you want the site to be responsible for what you yourselves should be responsible for.

Why should I be responsible for the malicious behavior of one or more other people on this site?

 

You're blaming victims. That's messed up.

[Cinspawn]

1 minute ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

And again, to everyone. I get sick eggs. I get sick eggs trying to hatch zyus and prizes. I have only ever once gotten a sick egg from a view bomber, and that's because I take care of my items. Sickness has a place in 'normal' gameplay, I see it often enough, not being targeted by anyone.

I don't see why you want the site to be responsible for what you yourselves should be responsible for.

 

You're literally blaming the victims of malicious viewbombers here because "it's not that hard to fog". I don't know what else to say to you. I guess you really need to experience being targeted first before you understand. (Which I don't wish to anyone, of course).