Updating old sprites

[danicast]

Off course, this wouldn't be mandatory for every spriter and will be done only if they want and have the time.

Then we definitely don't need this thread. This already happens on DC. If the spriter feels like, they update their spriters. I think this discussion is unecessary.

[sparkle10184]

Little shading and anatomy upadates are great (like the GoN), but I really don't like to see dragons changed into entirely different looking sprites. Probably has to do with my preference to some of the earlier released dragons compared to the super new breeds. I like simplicity and some of the new sprites are so intense and shiny.

[RecycledHeart]

Then we definitely don't need this thread. This already happens on DC. If the spriter feels like, they update their spriters. I think this discussion is unecessary.

You see it as unnecessary but I enjoy finding out what people think about this kind of stuff.

[Asketil]

I know the topic is about to heat up which is why I am taking a no opinion stance for these reasons.

 

There will always be people who want the sprites to all flow together shading/detail wise.

There will always be people who want them to stay the same because they is the way they were made.

 

You could only solve this by meeting in the middle and even then the topic will be a very touchy subject. I am fine with either way, minor updates, or staying the same.

[ParticleSoup]

You see it as unnecessary but I enjoy finding out what people think about this kind of stuff.

Open a thread up in site discussions perhaps? Or ask a mod to move this?

 

It's nice to want to know thoughts, but I agree that this type of thread should not be a suggestion.

Edited July 3, 2015 by ParticleSoup

[RecycledHeart]

Open a thread up in site discussions perhaps?

 

It's nice to want to know thoughts, but I agree that this type of thread should not be a suggestion.

Alright, I'll pm a mod to move it there then.

[Tazzay]

Then we definitely don't need this thread. This already happens on DC. If the spriter feels like, they update their spriters. I think this discussion is unecessary.

Except you fail to realise that a lot of the older spriters have left or drifted away from DC, so they'd need to be chased for these sorts of things.

 

But me, personally, i'm all for updated sprites. Some older sprites have some anatomy/shading that is almost too painful too look at, not to mention they look so out of place besides the newer sprites.

 

And I don't see why newer sprites are such a fuss. You can always go to the wiki to see them, or if TJ implements it, on the encyclopedia.

[Rally Vincent]

And I don't see why newer sprites are such a fuss. You can always go to the wiki to see them, or if TJ implements it, on the encyclopedia.

So get someone to make you a "better" sprite and save it on your computer. Should be enough by your own account, right?

 

Not to mention that the lineage view is always changed by a replacement.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Rally Vincent

[danicast]

Except you fail to realise that a lot of the older spriters have left or drifted away from DC, so they'd need to be chased for these sorts of things.

 

Sprites that the spriter is absent should not be touched. Like Tawanda001 said, vintage is also good. I would not update one single dragon, I like them as they are. I think that if someone wants to see a different dragon, then the person can suggest a new dragon, there is a whole area in the forum to do that.

[Snowytoshi]

But me, personally, i'm all for updated sprites. Some older sprites have some anatomy/shading that is almost too painful too look at, not to mention they look so out of place besides the newer sprites.

 

Wow... I highly doubt that a picture of a dragon is causing you actual pain and to say that is pretty rude to the spriters. Bashing other people's art isn't constructive at all and doesn't actually aid in the discussion.

 

In my opinion if the spriters want to update then that is of course their choice, but I'd love to still have the old sprites. I think a lot of the recent releases have looked very busy and shiny and I prefer the style of the older sprites.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Snowytoshi

[Nerei]

What if in a user's account, there was the option to view dragons with or without their sprite updates. This would cause all dragons of that breed to look only one way for a specific user.

 

I think that slight anatomy or shading updates would be good. I do not think that "updates", like that of golds that changes the whole sprite, would be appreciated.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Niyaka

[ParticleSoup]

What if in a user's account, there was the option to view dragons with or without their sprite updates. This would cause all dragons of that breed to look only one way for a specific user.

This was one of the ideas getting tossed around for the gold replacement. TJ had decided in the end that it was going to be all golds or nothing at all.

 

ETA: Of course that's not to say he won't make a different decision next time around..

Edited July 3, 2015 by ParticleSoup

[Asketil]

What if in a user's account, there was the option to view dragons with or without their sprite updates. This would cause all dragons of that breed to look only one way for a specific user.

This sounds like a good way to go actually...just saying it's meeting in the middle.

You could build your lineages based on how they always looked or look after the revamp(?)

[Tazzay]

So get someone to make you a "better" sprite and save it on your computer. Should be enough by your own account, right?

 

Not to mention that the lineage view is always changed by a replacement.

Heh.

 

I didn't say "I want new sprites now", I said i'm all for newer sprites if they are to be implemented, and if they were updated, the older sprites could be viewable in the encyclopedia. If they aren't updated, i'm fine with that, too.

 

And with the lineage view replacement, there would be practically little difference if the updated sprites just have an anatomy/shading fix. Like the op said, the best way for updates sprites is for the sprites to have the exact same pose, just with fixes.

[Rally Vincent]

And with the lineage view replacement, there would be practically little difference if the updated sprites just have an anatomy/shading fix. Like the op said, the best way for updates sprites is for the sprites to have the exact same pose, just with fixes.

A difference is a difference. Lineages are built not only on the outline of dragons; colors alone often are a reason why someone starts a lineage. Even only a change in shading has a great impact on some lineages.

 

One player's "little difference" is another player's major flaw of their favorite sprite or lineage. As long as replacement suggestions do not take into account that issues of perception do not have a middle ground, but are either/or, they will raise as much resentment as they always have.

[Syrup]

Because it is not the dragon I caught and raised, and because it is respectless to take away something from other user's scrolls. Would you replace a painting of Rembrandt with a photo because it looks more realistic?

 

I will not comment on "really good" so nobody will use that to derail the discussion (like it always has been done in the past). "Really good" is a matter of opinion, that is all I'm going to say.

The thing is, its not like the dragons will be plucked off your scroll or made unbreedable. The Golds were updated a few years ago, and the only way I found out is when I was checking my dragons and boom! There was a new sprite (though, yes, if I recall correctly there was a forum post about it).

 

There normally isn't anything bad that happens. But, I agree that a lot of the sprites would look nice updated; and not just rares/holidays.

 

Its still the same dragon, it just has updated shading and proper anatomy. Its just like the artist curators and such (don't know who actually does it) in museums maintaining the artworks; they keep them touched up and pretty, undo the aging and such, and often, more detail is actually revealed.

Edited July 3, 2015 by arya10

[Rubin]

Except you fail to realise that a lot of the older spriters have left or drifted away from DC, so they'd need to be chased for these sorts of things.

One thing I've always liked about DC is their copyright policy. Even if the spriter is no longer around, the sprite is theirs and nobody has a right to alter/update or in any other way change it without their permission.

 

That is a good and respectful policy to have.

 

 

That being said I remember the riots that ensued when the Golds were replaced. And the change WAS a drastic one, that was sure to mess up lineages and lineage views.

 

If a spriter chooses to go back and fix things about their sprites that THEY perceive as errors or no longer up to their own standard that is their decision. But going around calling older sprites 'bad' or 'painful to look at' is not constructive, it's downright offensive.

 

I'm not saying people have to like the old sprites. If you don't fancy them the way they are, that is a legit opinion to have. But as such it is by default subjective and so far the subjective opinion of the majority of the forum users has always been in favor of their old beloved sprites rather than any replacements.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Rubin

[Pixxelation]

Sprite updates don't really belong in the public forums, IMO. Look what happened with the Silvers--everyone and their cousin tried their hand, in-cave or not (myself included), and we ended up with, what, over twenty options, and avoidable drama? There is a system in place for updating outdated sprites. It comes down to TJ's decision when and whether they get implemented.

 

Sprite updates have to be handled very gingerly. Even when a work has clear and glaring flaws, older users tend to get sentimental about the sprites that currently exist. However, updating older works is important for the site to continue expanding; when there is a large and obvious gap in quality of works, it hinders the site's appearance to new players. Not everyone is going to like the updated sprites, and that is fine. I don't even like one or two of the updated ones, myself. But they were still necessary, and still something I support, despite the inevitable drama.

 

I think it's best to leave them to be dealt with in private, between the existing site artists and TJ.

[Rally Vincent]

Its still the same dragon, it just has updated shading and proper anatomy.

That's what I think about it being the same dragon:

 

Edited July 3, 2015 by Rally Vincent

[RecycledHeart]

Sprite updates don't really belong in the public forums, IMO. Look what happened with the Silvers--everyone and their cousin tried their hand, in-cave or not (myself included), and we ended up with, what, over twenty options, and avoidable drama? There is a system in place for updating outdated sprites. It comes down to TJ's decision when and whether they get implemented.

 

Sprite updates have to be handled very gingerly. Even when a work has clear and glaring flaws, older users tend to get sentimental about the sprites that currently exist. However, updating older works is important for the site to continue expanding; when there is a large and obvious gap in quality of works, it hinders the site's appearance to new players. Not everyone is going to like the updated sprites, and that is fine. I don't even like one or two of the updated ones, myself. But they were still necessary, and still something I support, despite the inevitable drama.

 

I think it's best to leave them to be dealt with in private, between the existing site artists and TJ.

I suppose so. Otherwise too many feelings get involved about nostalgia and the like.

Edited July 3, 2015 by RecycledHeart

[Sketch]

I'm just going to come out and say it; no support. Older dragons have older sprites that remind us of the past and the better (or worse) times we had in DC when we were just getting dragons. The older sprites should stay how they are unless specifically requested by the artist to be updated. I personally love the current Silver sprite and the Seasonals that are shown... I don't know. I just don't like them. So, once again, zero support for the older dragons getting their sprites updated unless an artist wishes for their dragon to be revamped. (If it's a sprite I like, they better have a good reason )

[Syrup]

I do agree, though, that in the end it is the spriter's decision, and long gone spriters shouldn't have their sprites retouched. I just think its at least worth putting out there in open discussion; it can at least give TJ/ the spriters a decent idea of where the community is.

 

Don't get me wrong, I adore all the sprites and the hard work the spriters put in to them now, and did back then.

 

But I don't see any harm if the community can politely and maturely debate/suggest new touch ups to the spriters, and they themselves can decide what they want to to do.

Edited July 3, 2015 by arya10

[Lurhstaap]

The degree of hostility and resistance to change in this thread frankly astonishes me. You would not see this in just about any other game, at least not those I am familiar with. You know whose right it is to choose to change the sprites? TJ's. Because it's his site. And if the players don't like that if he chooses to? TOUGH. New sprites aren't "impostors" or anything else ridiculous I've seen people say in this thread. MOST sites update their art over periods of time and DC in particular has a history of replacing whole batches of sprites because they were either copyrighted or simply not as good as what could be done. The golds have already been updated and I think anyone who is HONEST will admit that the new sprites are superior to the old. You may personally prefer the old ones, but that does not magically sweep away the OBJECTIVE ARTISTIC PROBLEMS with them.

 

You guys need to understand that you are playing a FREE game which owes you NOTHING. If the art needs to be updated, objectively, then it needs to be updated. And if you compare the newer sprites with the older ones... yeah. DC has changed. There is nothing wrong with the art changing to reflect that. In the old days all the sprites were more or less the same quality-wise, so their flaws weren't such a big deal. Nowadays though the contrast between newer sprites and older sprites is getting to be so big that, frankly, the site is starting to look unprofessional and uncoordinated.

 

If you like the old sprites, save them to your machine with right click and save. You have no inherent right to keep them on your scroll just because you personally like them better. TJ needs to do what is for the best of the site as a whole and sometimes that means some people don't get what they want.

 

Obviously this is just my own opinion, but I felt I needed to say it given what I have seen here. I apologize if this was offensive to anyone, but again, I really felt the need to respond.

 

Also, speaking as an artist - when I submit art to a project, I am aware that this is done on a professional basis. If, later on, my work no longer fits the project's requirements and needs to be replaced? That's called life. It's not an insult to me nor is it any sort of personal rejection or a denigration of my work in general. And to say it is, frankly, IS insulting. Artists are not fragile delicate snowflakes. We don't need to be coddled and babied and shielded from the reality of the quality of our work over time in case we BAWWW ourselves to death. Sheesh.

 

Signed, a player who's been playing since 2009 and would love to see the low quality old sprites replaced with nice ones. ESPECIALLY on those special things I fought and worked hard to get like my CB silvers. >.>

Edited July 3, 2015 by Lurhstaap

[sparkle10184]

You know whose right it is to choose to change the sprites? TJ's. Because it's his site.

Erm, no, it's the spriter's choice :/

[Nerei]

Erm, no, it's the spriter's choice :/

The artists have control over what happens to the art, but if TJ wants change, it's pretty much that or they go.