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hibini

Are humans more important than animals?

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The book you're thinking of is Among the Hidden. Not a happy story. (Think mass murder of children.)

Ye, tha be da one. Very sad but addicting. For me it was one of those books that you generally dislike to read but it happened to be better then others of it's kind.

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Overall, I'd choose helping animals over people. We're overpopulated and humans get the most help already anyway.

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A couple of days ago I watched a show on Nova about dogs. They have proven that dogs can reason on a low level. They know that dogs can be shown a 2 dimensional picture and will go and get the object of that picture when they have never been shown that picture before. It was fascinating.

 

Also, my mother owned a dog that literally tried to talk to us. She would say hello. And when calling her in for the night, she would yodel and form complete sentences and actually use body language to indicate that she didn't want to come in for the night. While we were not smart enough to understand her, she would use tones that mimicked our nature sentence tones to the point of the tone dropping at the end of the sentence with a very brief pause between sentences. And guess what? She understood us. She learned that certain words meant certain things. Say the word "cookie" in our house and see what happens. Dogs go to where the treats are. Say the words "go for a ride" and dogs go to the car. When was the last time an animal said something to a human and the human understood and did what the animal wanted?

 

Further, working with horses I know that they do communicate with each other as well. They call for each other when they are seperated. They have memory and know when a herd mate leaves and even after years they fully remember the herd mate. They will talk to them. One just has to watch animals and learn that there is more to it than what we understand.

 

So how can we as humans think that animals are not smart enough to communicate with each other? How shallow are we to say we are better than them?

 

Again, I can not choose one over the other. We (all species) are all dependant on others. Animals have a very important roll to play in our lives. Not only do they nurish us (physically and mentally if kept for pets), but they help control what humans can't/won't take care of. Goats eat weads, cats eat mice, vultures clean up the dead, insects pollinate plants to allow the plants to flourish, birds eat insects. You get the picture.

 

And humans, well, we should be smart enough to be able to reason out the importance of animals and to take care of them. But to do so, you have to help humans in poor countries to evolve and learn to take care of themselves. Give humans a decent life and teach them that their lives depend on being in harmony with the planet.

 

I think some cultures have it so right. Native Americans are just one example. They know how vital it is to take care of animals.

 

So again, neither is more important than the other. We all have a roll to play. Donating to both animal and people related charities is a good thing. There is no right answer as to which is more important. It is all situation dependant. I have donated to both, have helped start a not for profit animal rescue, and I understand the value of humans and the power that humans have to save or destroy things.

 

So me, I donate to both. I go with what my gut tells me is right at the time.

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Edit @ Rhea: I don't think elephants are particularly evil, though, and they're quite intelligent.

I don't think that Rhea meant an obligatory "intelligent is evil" but that the possible aptitude for evil is proportional with an animal's intelligence.

 

That said, if a species is endangered, then some priority should be given to it, because extinction could upset a whole food chain, etc. Plus just for scientific research and stuff.

 

Perhaps, but humans aren't an endangered species. ;D

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Frankly I would sooner donate (and I do) to an animal rescue shelter than to any human health research campaign. Most animals are in the plight they are most likely because of humans.

 

And my personal peeve: I'm sick of those bloody pink ribbons!! Aaaarrrrggghhhhh!! I can understand raising awareness, but is breast cancer the most prevailing f***ing lethal illness among humans that need to be eliminated ASAP, or has it become a fad to "go pink"??

 

 

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Human causes get much more funding than animal ones, thus I would support animals, the "underdogs" (if you'll pardon the pun) of the world of charity.

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Human causes get much more funding than animal ones, thus I would support animals, the "underdogs" (if you'll pardon the pun) of the world of charity.

Human causes need much more funding, so that is not an argument.

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Human causes need much more funding, so that is not an argument.

We're also more capable of taking care of ourselves. Valid argument. It's not the animal's fault what we do to them.

Edited by War Pig Killer

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Perhaps, but humans aren't an endangered species. ;D

If only have any of you heard about the mile of forest on the north Korea south Korea boarder?

 

apparently it's a very rich wildlife reserve. Why?

 

 

Anyone who steps foot inside this mile get's shot

 

I'm not saying that I approve or disapprove but that is very effective at keeping a invasive speices from over running native ones.

 

It also seems depending on the speices moving into a new enviroment is either being invasive or "colonizing" rolleyes.gif

Is there a difference?

Some animals are so adapted to their enviroments they can't live anywhere else naturally. Like a salt water fish in the Missouri river you stick a person somewhere and give them enough time and they'll adapt that's our problem we can live almost anywhere. Which often spells doom for native plants and animals.

 

people are a invasive species no thinking required about that

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We're also more capable of taking care of ourselves.

Can you? Maybe. Can I? Sure. But it's not you or me or anyone from this forum we are talking about. It's about people who need help so desperately that they can't just take care of themselves.

 

There is nothing wrong in desire to help endangered animal species. Just don't forget there are humans who need your help as well.

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Can you? Maybe. Can I? Sure. But it's not you or me or anyone from this forum we are talking about. It's about people who need help so desperately that they can't just take care of themselves.

 

There is nothing wrong in desire to help endangered animal species. Just don't forget there are humans who need your help as well.

Nobody has said that humans don't have to be taken care of, they do.

 

But we have a serious responsibility to give back to animal species that our oh-so-precious species has been very fond of killing off for non-vital things like furs, claws, tusks, feathers, heck, even bird heads to put on ladies' hats.

Edited by lightbird

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Nobody has said that humans don't have to be taken care of, they do.

 

But we have a serious responsibility to give back to animal species that our oh-so-precious species has been very fond of killing off for non-vital things like furs, claws, tusks, feathers, heck, even bird heads to put on ladies' hats.

...and I'm not trying to justify the humankind. I'm just trying to point out that some humans are realy in a dire need for help, the thing many users here forget or prefer not to mention.

To my mind, everyone who desperately needs help should be given it, and I see your point of view, even though I would rather save the most worthless human being than a godly beast. For that I might be damned and scorned by some of you, yet no one in the world would dare call me a monster.

Edited by Fabulo

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...and I'm not trying to justify the humankind. I'm just trying to point out that some humans are realy in a dire need for help, the thing many users here forget or prefer not to mention.

To my mind, everyone who desperately needs help should be given it, and I see your point of view, even though I would rather save the most worthless human being than a godly beast. For that I might be damned and scorned by some of you, yet no one in the world would dare call me a monster.

No, I don't forget it. I just don't care. There is a difference.

 

And, as it happens, if you saw an animal suffering and in need and wouldn't raise a finger to help it I *would* call you a monster.

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No, I don't forget it. I just don't care. There is a difference.

 

And, as it happens, if you saw an animal suffering and in need and wouldn't raise a finger to help it I *would* call you a monster.

Non sequitur.

I would save it, that's obvious. But being put before a choice whom to save and not being able to save both, I'd save human.

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Survival of the species forces me to choose donating to animals. It would do the world of good if our population was cut in half. Not saying I'd like it, but it'd help everything, including the animals and our own species.

 

I'd love to see birthing licences put into effect. One child per couple. After, say, 5 years, they could have another. Or they could adopt sooner. If you wanted more than 2 children, you'd have to adopt. Once we no longer had the sheer amount of kids that we do in the system, this policy might change accordingly. I'd be fine with mandatory sterilization after two kids.

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"don't you think humans are in more need of help then...tigers. I mean there is tons of suffering within humans."

 

Now see, if everyone thought like this no one would ever give money to help animals. If you endeavor to stop human suffering before you do anything about the rest of the world you're going to be living on a very sad planet when it comes to biodiversity.

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And, as it happens, if you saw an animal suffering and in need and wouldn't raise a finger to help it I *would* call you a monster.

THIS!

 

I just don't understand people who "hit and run" stray animals. First of all, those stray animals are "stray" because some human b@stard either abandoned them or didn't care to keep the animal properly confined. And on top of that cruelty, if you hit a cat or a dog, not to care to take it to a vet? Disgusting!

 

 

Edit: Sorry about the rant. It's a bit of a touchy subject for me because of my little Limpy, who was a stray I rescued after some vehicle hit her and broke her leg in 2.

 

 

Edited by lanette

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Now see, if everyone thought like this no one would ever give money to help animals. If you endeavor to stop human suffering before you do anything about the rest of the world you're going to be living on a very sad planet when it comes to biodiversity.

Such things should be kept within reasonable limits. I'm sure Hibini didn't mean tigers are not to be helped at all. He just gave his own, pretty reasonable, opinion on that topic.

 

Edit: Sorry about the rant. It's a bit of a touchy subject for me because of my little Limpy, who was a stray I rescued after some vehicle hit her and broke her leg in 2.

Not every humanist is an animal-hater, trust me.

Edited by Fabulo

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Of course I understand that. But hating animals and not giving a censorkip.gif about their basic care is two different things.

 

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I don't think that Rhea meant an obligatory "intelligent is evil" but that the possible aptitude for evil is proportional with an animal's intelligence.

*Nogs* Yes, but at the same time, that would be soooo awesome. Criminal masterminds!

Sorry, it's early.

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Of course I understand that. But hating animals and not giving a censorkip.gif about their basic care is two different things.

Seems pretty much the same to me.

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*shrug* I know people who have pets themselves (and spend a lot of money on their pet care) but wouldn't bother to take a stray dog who was hit by a vehicle (that sped off of course) right in front of their houses to a vet. It took me, who lived much further down the road to come investigate the animal's howls of pain and take her to the vet. And what were those people doing the whole time? Peering out their windows and watching the "show". My blood boils just thinking about it even now.

 

 

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