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~!~

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Everything posted by ~!~

  1. Why not do the same thing as with the Gemshards? I know there's a difference, that you can tell which color a Pyralspite is from the egg, but the Trader could still be programmed to sell randomly-colored ones.
  2. Are you talking artwork, or design? There's a difference between a well executed sprite of an ugly dragon, and a poorly executed sprite of a beautiful dragon. As far as I know, those in DR already strive for both skillful art and exciting design when creating new dragons, and TJ already selects those with the art he thinks is best to add to the site. I agree with your sentiment that rare dragons should be really special, but as far as I know, the site already strives for maximum specialness when creating common dragons. I don't see what more could be done to make the rares even more special.
  3. Why not? People already get around the "no duplicate names" thing with less elegant methods. I don't know how the cave currently works, but since capital letters and lowercase letters are usually encoded as separate characters, I assume it would be easy to add case sensitivity to names and eliminate this problem, but it would allow two different dragons to be named Spyro and SPyro. However, it may be the case that urls are always case-insensitive, meaning such an easy solution would be pretty impossible unless we eliminate the "no duplicate names" thing entirely, likely by removing the name version of the url. A less easy fix would be to check if the "taken" name belongs to the dragon you happen to be renaming right now, and if that's the case, ignore it. So if you have a dragon with code 12345 named SPyro and you want to change it to Spyro, the site says, "oh, there's already a dragon called Spyro, but it has code 12345 and so does this dragon so I'll allow the name change anyway." I don't know how possible that is, though - it would depend on how the site checks if the name is a dupe or not.
  4. I think a balance is necessary with a feature like this one. If anything is easier to get in the cave than in the store, why would anybody use the store? That said, I think "rarity-based" would be fine. I've always been a proponent of the idea that when TJ decides how "rare" a breed should be, that should affect how easy it is to get a dragon of that kind, not the physical number of that breed in existence. So, if players want a world with tons of Neotropicals and not very many Mints, we're allowed that. Of course, then you get the problem of ratios. If a breed is in high demand and is substantially easier to buy from the shop than to grab from the cave, many people will buy them, and then suddenly there are fewer in the cave, and fewer being bred. I kind of like this, but it would definitely make the store a primary way of getting eggs.
  5. I have an idea for an addition: Allow users to add dragons to a breeding "blacklist." The dragon can still be bred if you use the Breed action on that dragon, but it will never show up in any other dragon's "possible mates" list.
  6. Couldn't you just get all the bonus points and then release the adult? I don't see this being a problem because "the rich" would have to actually come up with a decent trade for such a thing. I wouldn't really care if suddenly the CW hatchling I only picked up for the points is now worth a rare in a trade. EDIT: I would definitely support a "change sprite" item. I think it should be indicated somewhere on the dragon's page that its sprite was changed though. With changing from male to female it's obvious, but I think such a thing could be used to switch between alt forms, and I think it would devalue "real" alts if they were indistinguishable from "sprite-altered" alts, even if the "regular to alt" change potion was very expensive. (On that note, why not a potion that will change your dragon's sprite into any other sprite in the game? With restrictions, ofc... That might get silly, though.)
  7. ~!~

    DC Currency

    The reason is because Dragon Cave is a zero-sum game. The cave produces fewer Golds the more people breed. If you breed a Gold egg to your scroll that's one less that the cave will produce - one less that's available to everyone else. I don't think this is wrong or shameful, I just don't think it benefits the site as a whole. Therefore I don't think there's any need to propose changes to the site that make people even more likely to do it. There's an argument to be made that generating eggs like the ones fuzz linked benefits the site by creating unique, high-value goods, but the problem with that argument is you're creating them in such a way that no one but you has access to them, unless you choose to give the egg away.
  8. You could just make a thread like this in GD and see if people use it or not. You can't sticky it but it may still get attention, esp. if it's commonly used.
  9. If that's the case, I'd prefer something like, 7 cave-only slots and 7 bred-only slots. I'd say AP eggs go into "cave" slots and eggs obtained via teleport go into "bred only," because eggs from the AP are available to everyone who's looking, like the cave, and eggs teleported in are only available to the guy with the link, which might be lots of people but is probably just you, so more similar to breeding. This way, it doesn't allow a user to breed 14 eggs every few days, which is what I'd like to avoid. Personally I'd prefer 7 "any way you like" egg slots and 7 "cave-only" slots, which would allow for the same rationing of egg slots as adding bred-only slots, but it would also allow people to take 14 eggs from the cave, which I'd like people doing. (I also like this method b/c I don't really like breeding my dragons, so bred-only egg slots don't appeal to me...) But, I think separate slots like I described above is more fair.
  10. If you guys want to talk about extra bred-only egg slots, I'd prefer it if you take it to another thread, since that kind of thing goes against my goals with this thread (to get people to take more eggs out of the cave).
  11. ~!~

    DC Currency

    I have sympathy for people who breed rares to gift, but not for people who breed rares to keep. What I don't like is a bunch of rares getting generated that aren't available for anyone to get, because that lowers the number of rares created that are available for all. If you breed rares to toss to the AP (which I also do) fine. If you breed rares to gift to anyone who wants them, fine. However, I don't actually understand why this suggestion will result in breeding being penalized. In fact, if you guys are really concerned, there could be an additional way of obtaining gold for gifting rares. If you Transfer (for free - not as a trade or a sell) a high-demand (overpopulated or site-regulated rare) egg to a scroll with... less than a fixed number (5?) of that dragon, you get some gold for it.
  12. Suggestion: What if you could sell eggs to the store as well as buy them?
  13. ~!~

    DC Currency

    Lineage breeding would not be affected at all by this suggestion? Breeding in general would not be affected at all? Because, you would actually be rewarded for picking up CBs, which you need to start lineages, and you're not penalized at all for breeding. Unless you're talking about breeding lineages of rares, in which case, I don't have much sympathy. I don't have any problem inconveniencing players who breed lots of rares to their own scrolls, causing the site to lower the population of rares the rest of us have a shot at getting to keep the ratios balanced. Why do you think slow clickers (who can't catch rares) would be forced to mine rares for fast clickers (who can)? The way the site works, users are already forced to pick up CBs they don't want if they want rares to ever appear. The site deliberately balances things so that there need to be 500 Neotropicals for every Silver, or something like that. That's why you get more egg slots for raising tons and tons of dragons. That's why there are user-driven projects to encourage people to pick up commons they otherwise wouldn't.
  14. ~!~

    DC Currency

    I agree that there exists a spirit of generosity. Right now, certain users have the ability to reliably produce high-value eggs via breeding. It doesn't cost you anything to breed, for example, a 2nd-gen Gold, and gift it to another user, if you weren't planning on breeding that Gold dragon to get an egg for yourself. Usually these people don't particularly want anything (or they'd be trading their nice egg instead of gifting it) or their egg isn't actually worth the trades they want. In the first case, they have no real need to save up gold, so there's no reason for them to suddenly switch to selling their eggs. In the second case, they won't be able to get much gold for their egg. I don't see why there wouldn't still be people giving away eggs, or at least selling them for affordable prices, considering it will not cost any money to create said eggs. I would expect that metallics with bad lineages will be so undesirable that people could get more money for nice-lineaged or CB commons. Like, if you can't trade them for anything, you probably won't be able to sell them for very much. I think this suggestion will benefit everyone. It will make it easier for players with access to the most valuable eggs to exchange them for things they particularly want, but it will also make it easier for the rest of us for the same reasons. It will just add fluidity and flexibility to the currently existing trade market.
  15. I would like something like this. I don't think there's any need to indicate how many dragons the person has collected, and as far as I know the moderators on the forums and in chat aren't any different from regular users on Dragon Cave proper, so you'd have to deliberately add that in if you wanted to indicate that someone is a mod. I feel like a nice way to do this would be to put it near the "users viewing this page" link at the bottom. It could just show a message like: "Other users viewing this page: username, username, username, username... 34 others." And the list would refresh whenever you refresh the page.
  16. ~!~

    DC Currency

    The currency should have some intrinsic value to it, so it's valuable to dragons as well as humans (or whatever the players are, in-game). I don't think they need to be anything other than coins, but I agree that calling them "gold" is kind of dumb. After all, real-world cultures have a name for their currency - pounds, euros, dollars, etc. If it was left up to me I'd call them something stupid like "draco-bucks" though, which I doubt has the "mystical" feel you all seem to prefer. It makes a lot of sense that the people of this world (Valkymare, is it called now?) would base their currency off something dragon-related. Perhaps the currency was originally the scales of metallic dragons, or other dragons with particularly cool-looking scales (Sunsongs come to mind) but nowadays it's just manufactured stuff.
  17. ~!~

    DC Currency

    That is exactly what this is trying to do. I believe that demand for CB eggs is too low, as evidenced by how slowly the eggs are taken from the biomes. This would give people an extra incentive to pick them up. It would not force anyone to do anything. Also: yes, we do not need to encourage users to breed. There aren't site-wide problems caused by users not breeding enough. Breeding is fine and I'm not against it, but it currently happens at an appropriate rate. Plus, if we give users rewards for breeding anything at all it'll just end up with an AP full of terrible lineages. I don't understand why people are against users naming their own prices for the eggs they want to sell. That's just a more fluid version of what we have now, right? (Also: I personally prefer CB metallics to breed metallics so, yes, I would like to see users discouraged from breeding them. But, that's just my opinion, and NOT what this suggestion is about.) I'm gonna update the first post with the AP suggestion that's gotten the most support. As PF13 pointed out earlier, a currency system will only be balanced if there are consistent gold sinks. How offended would everyone be if previously "free" things started costing gold to do? Bearing in mind, of course, that the primary methods of obtaining gold will be raising dragons, and possibly selling valuable eggs to other users, and that the bonuses for picking up eggs from the biomes and the AP will be comparatively small.
  18. ~!~

    DC Currency

    So, in order for this to work, there have to be significant gold sinks to balance out all the free gold people get just from playing. (Thuban's suggestion doesn't have this problem, then, because it's actually centered around gold sinks?) That makes a lot of sense. However, if the suggestion is going to stay with current in-game features, that means I'm going to have to suggest charging gold to do things you normally do, or start handing out mad bonuses for people to buy with gold. How about buying extra egg slots? Maybe... given the prices I've listed so far... 5000 gold for an egg slot? And you get it permanently? Or maybe 1000 for a temporary egg slot that goes away as soon as the egg hatches or leaves your scroll? Fluff side: You're paying your adult dragons to help you take care of it. The high cost is b/c they don't get to keep the baby - they're just babysitting it for you. Thuban's thread is likely generating a lot of nice things other than eggs that you could pay gold for, and I don't want to cause too much overlap w/ that thread. Also, on abandoning: The other "pay gold to abandon" mechanic introduced (in the Cave Blockers thread I think) was, if you get bonus gold when you pick up an egg, you have to pay that amount when you get rid of it (abandon, bite, kill, etc.) I don't love that because it stops encouraging players to take blockers out of the biomes just to get them moving, (although I would argue that players shouldn't have to do that). However, it eliminates AGYK's issue and it doesn't discourage people from abandoning bred eggs. It also acts as a gold sink.
  19. I think it's funny to hear everyone so embarrassed about their usernames, when I look at them and I don't think there's anything wrong with them. (Then again, I'm mostly on Tumblr lately... people there come up with some pretty embarrassing usernames...) As someone who just came back from a long hiatus (who knows how long I'll stay this time) I think it's important to keep "who is this person again?" information around indefinitely. I would be really disoriented if I'd come back and didn't recognize anybody here, and had no way of knowing, "oh, that's olympe, that's fuzzbucket, that's Sockpuppet Strangler... I know these people and I know what to expect from them. I think it would be best to list a user's old usernames right there on their posts, in the sidebar, under the avatar with all the other info.
  20. ~!~

    DC Currency

    I hear your concerns, but, isn't inflation a result of greedy sites trying to get people to use the "pay for gold" options and bring in revenue? Like, when I think of sites with terrible economies, Neopets and Gaia come to mind. (I've never actually used either, I just know the stories.) The way I see it, DC is significantly smaller, and TJ has said he's not interested in generating site revenue by pressuring users into buying things. I think tying gold generation directly to the means of production of dragons (the only thing there currently is to buy) would be a way to mitigate inflation, as well. (As far as I know, most other sites generate gold via mini-games.) And, if gold doesn't turn out to be viable for trading, people will just go back to barter trading like we have now, right? EDIT: Okay, okay, the gold timer would only be on while the egg is actually showing and available to be adopted. Eggs that sit behind the first page won't accumulate gold. Also: if messy-lineage holidays are that undesirable, maybe they ought to shell out ridiculous amounts of gold. The gold is meant to get people to pick up the eggs, after all. Also: the entire AP is terrible and needs to be fixed, esp. during holidays, but that's beside the point. That isn't actually a part of the suggestion. I understand DC has a long-standing tradition of no paid features and I wouldn't want to upset that. EDIT: fixed my double-post
  21. I realize that this is almost a duplicate of Thuban's store thread, but I'd like to talk about currency in a thread that isn't tied to those other ideas. I think currency could be a useful addition to DC just on its own. I hope to avoid most of the drama of the store thread by steering clear of "buying eggs." I agree with the dissenters in that thread that being able to buy an egg would change the game in drastic ways (although I'm not sure if they are bad ways...) so I don't want to discuss that here. You will, however, be able to buy dragons from other users, but for user-determined prices, not site-determined ones. It will be exactly like trading currently is, but instead of exchanging dragons for dragons, you would exchange them for gold. It would supplement trading, not replace it. In Thuban's thread they call their currency "points" or "mana" but I feel like gold is appropriate? Physical, material treasure - shiny things. It is Dragon Cave, after all, and dragons are known for hoarding treasure, right? So I'm gonna call it gold for the time being. Obtaining currency: Thuban's thread already has a lot of great ideas for obtaining gold, as well as rich discussion about how it should be limited. However, a lot of that discussion is predicated on the fact that money will be used to obtain dragons, which this thread is not going to assume. All I propose is for a currency that greases the wheels DC already has, rather than adding anything new. (And, if in-game currency is implemented, people can suggest new features to interface with it.) So, these are all ways that I purpose gold can be collected. I would like to implement these all together, so that users with different play styles can get gold in different ways. Passive Maybe have little piles of 5-10 gold show up like the Easter eggs, or Halloweeen treats? This way you can't make an auto-refresher do the work for you. Pros: works equally well with any play style. Cons: requires JS enabled. Clicks Giving clicks to eggs or hatchlings should yield 1-5 gold, only when the click is actually counted toward the dragons "clicks." So far the only cons I've seen to this are "but I don't wanna click." So like... don't then? There's other ways to get gold. Biomes As eggs sit in the biomes, they slowly accumulate wealth. Every second, they have a 50% chance of gaining 1 gold piece. So a rare egg, or a new release, or anything that will otherwise get snatched up really quickly, will not come with any gold. However, eggs that are in lower demand will sit in the cave and accumulate gold until someone takes them. Users will not know how much gold an egg has until they grab it. Pros: gets eggs out of the cave Cons: "but I don't wanna take the cave eggs!" yeah I know, no one does, that's why I'm suggesting literally paying you to do it Abandoned Page Eggs (and hatchlings) accumulate gold in the AP as well, at a slower rate (because they are also losing time here). An AP egg starts with 0 gold and gains 1-0 for every 5 seconds that the egg is showing and available on the AP. (Eggs on the AP that do not have enough time to show on the page will not gain gold.) It will start with 5 extra gold for each time it's been abandoned. Paying to Abandon I propose the following mechanic to balance the two ways to obtain gold by picking up eggs: If you got gold when you picked up an egg, you have to pay that much when you abandon it. So, if you snatch a Paper from the cave in 0.02 seconds, you don't have to pay anything to abandon it. If you breed an egg, you don't pay to abandon it. But, if you got a Guardian egg from the volcano after it had sat there for 30 seconds, and you got 17 gold when you picked it up, you have to pay that 17 gold back to the cave when you abandon the egg. Raising Dragons Hatching an egg will gain you some gold. Depending on the breed, it may give you a lot or a little. The cave knows how rare a dragon is "supposed" to be, so if the dragon is "rare" it will yield only a little gold, but still significantly more than just picking the egg up. Perhaps 20 gold for a rare egg hatched. "Uncommon" eggs would yield 30 gold, and "commons" 50. This is assuming the cave sorts breeds neatly into rare, uncommon, and common. I actually have no idea how the internal workings of the cave decide how difficult eggs are to get. I would suggest that whatever mechanics the site uses to determine breeding success, it uses to reward hatchings. That is, an egg that is more likely to be successfully bred also yields more gold upon hatching. Lore justification: Young dragons are ready to hatch early on, and choose to stay in their eggs, so they are aware of your presence while still in the egg stage. When the dragon finally emerges, it begins to stockpile valuables and gives some to you as a thank-you for taking care of it while it was in the egg. Raising a hatchling to adulthood will yield a reward as well, with the same lore justification. These rewards will be significantly larger: approx. 80 gold for a rare, 100 for an uncommon, 150 for a common. Depending on how frozen hatchlings interact with the ratios, freezing a hatchling will yield the same or a smaller reward. In-universe, freezing is not a bad thing and doesn't harm the hatchling at all, so they should bear no ill will toward people who freeze them. Fluff-Side Giving a dragon a name or a description is a sign of loyalty and friendship between you and the dragon. Naming a dragon gets you ~10 gold. Getting a description approved gets you ~40 gold. This represents the dragon's returned friendship to you (giving you some of its wealth). New Things Any in-cave action that suggests a relationship of friendship between you and a dragon should give a gold reward, which symbolizes the dragon's returned loyalty to you. If in-game currency is implemented, new features should follow this standard. Things that should not give you gold (imo): just showing up and not doing anything auto-refreshing a page for hours(/days/-ever) breeding (just b/c we don't need to encourage it) anything that harms a dragon or shows a lack of friendship (killing, releasing, etc) Uses Paying Players I'd like to keep discussion in this thread to how currency can be used to enhance current features, rather than to suggest new ones. I imagine the primary use for currency will be to pay other players. For what? That's up to you. I mostly see currency supplementing the trade market. A promise of payment could sweeten or completely replace a trade deal, eliminating the need for IOUs and the double-coincidence of want required for a successful trade. Perhaps Teleport could be given a third option that is "Sell," where you name a price in gold pieces for your egg, and anyone who accepts the Teleport will automatically be charged that amount (if they have it - otherwise the Teleport does not go through and remains open for someone else to take). Users could therefore earn gold by selling their eggs and hatchlings on a regular basis, if they have anything people are buying. Currency-based egg transfers, rather than barter-based ones, would be much more readily accepted, since although not everybody will be willing to buy your egg for your price, everyone will at least have access to the thing you want. This will definitely significantly affect the trade market, but it shouldn't affect the "value" of an egg. Eggs will still be worth whatever they're worth to you. There's other reasons why you could pay players. Maybe something related to the forums, somehow? Anyone remember the "random acts of kindness" thread? Maybe instead of just a signature badge, you could get some gold for that, too. Users could also have like, raffle pots, where everyone pays one person 5 gold, they generate a random winner, and that winner gets all the gold that got paid. Could this be used for nefarious purposes? Sure, but not any more nefarious than you could already do with real money... Escaping Cooldowns Perhaps a dragon could be persuaded to use a BSA before its cooldown is finished? Or attempt to breed again, if the previous match resulted in no eggs? I imagine the scenario will play out like this: You have a Red dragon - you use Incubate. Incubate has a two-week cooldown, right? Immediately upon using Incubate the Red dragon gains a counter, set at 0, saying "how many times that guy has asked me to use Incubate before I'm ready." If the cooldown is allowed to run out on its own, the counter is removed and the action becomes available again. However, before the cooldown runs out, you can go to the dragon and offer him some gold in exchange for Incubating another egg before he's ready. The first time it'll cost maybe 10 gold. The dragon agrees and his counter goes up to 1. The cooldown resets - now you will have to wait another full two weeks before you get free Incubates again. So if you want to do it again before the cooldown runs out, he will charge you more. Maybe 30 gold this time, and his counter will go up to 2. As the counter increases, the more he will charge you. If the cooldown is allowed to fully run out, the counter will disappear, and the next time you use Incubate it will be reset to 0.
  22. These are fair points, and things I hadn't considered... Although if it is true that how many dragons you have is an unreliable predictor for how many egg slots you need, why are egg slots tied to scroll size at all? Why not just give everybody 7 egg slots? I suppose TJ is trying to reward people for hoarding tons and tons of commons, to make the ratios work out? If so (and if it's working) I definitely support more trophy tiers. You guys are continuing to bring up a lot of good points as to why completely removing egg limits is a bad idea. (Although, I should mention, "I don't want it" doesn't count as a "good point.") However, the thread is generating some good ideas - I'm considering consolidating them into the first post, or merging the thread with the "Cave Blockers and how to deal w/ them" thread, but I don't want to derail the discussion currently in that thread...
  23. I didn't mention it because I figured it was obvious, since this thread is all about making the cave move faster, but I wasn't thinking "migration" would affect breeding at all, just what you can find in the cave. Because, it's the wild dragons that are leaving - your dragons at home are just hanging out and can breed normally. So, so long as you have all the CBs you need for your lineage, you won't be affected. (And, if you need to grab a lot of CBs before the breed goes on hiatus, that's what the extra egg slots right before the hiatus starts are for.) Mind, this would only happen with breeds that are already low-demand and easy to get in the cave. Also, I don't understand why people who aren't hoarders need lots of egg slots. If your playstyle means you don't want a massive number of dragons, when are you going to want 8 eggs at once? Conversely, if you're a player who always has the maximum number of eggs on your scroll, you're going to accumulate dragons pretty quickly.
  24. This actually gives me a great idea to couple with breed "migration." Site automatically determines a breed that is in low demand and decides to make it go away temporarily. In lore: The continent we live on has become inhospitable for that dragon in one way or another so they're migrating. So, a lot of dragons of this species leave their eggs in the care of other dragons, namely the dragons on our scroll. Hence, free egg slots (our adults are helping us raise the eggs.) EDIT: Maybe the number of bonus egg slots is based on the number of dragons you have? Perhaps the number of dragons of that kind specifically, or ones with the same elemental affinity? And I should point out that Biting the egg will make it's dragon foster parents no longer interested in helping raise it, so it'll start counting toward your limit again, so it'll get auto-abandoned if you don't have space for it. After this period, maybe two weeks or so, that breed stops showing up in the cave entirely, then comes back some months later. (Of course, this screws with the ratios a bit, so it would require a functioning migration feature first. I've been gone for a while so idk how those are working nowadays. Last I knew TJ had never actually told us how the ratios work.)
  25. Yeah. If you pick up an egg and it comes with 5 gold pieces, or whatever ends up getting implemented, then you have to pay 5 gold pieces to get rid of that egg. Once the bonus is received for picking up the egg, it would just go into your cumulative account and no longer be distinguishable from all the gold you've received for other reasons. So, if you managed to spend ALL your gold and didn't have enough to get rid of the egg, you couldn't get rid of it until you earned enough gold to do it. This is one reason why I think it's a little overkill to implement such a failsafe, especially since I would expect most eggs would not sit long enough in the cave to accumulate significant rewards. (Especially if players are making a habit of snatching cave eggs just for the gold, then dumping them immediately to the AP, which is what the charge-to-abandon mechanic is in place to prevent.) I think there should be a reward earned upon raising a dragon to adulthood - a significantly larger one than just for grabbing the egg. I just think a reward should also be given at the egg-grab stage, to give people an incentive to just pick up blockers, and get them out of the cave. (And, if it was up to me, you'd get to keep the reward even if you dump the egg.) I feel like an element on instant gratification will be a better motivator than a delayed reward, even if it's just a few days, and a reward for something you were probably planning on doing anyway.