The Fifth Element Lineage

[Lavinia]

Looks like it'll be just us, at least for now, so let's start!  If anyone else wants to join, you still can - we'll fit you into the picking order! 😊

 

Ooh, Lastalda, just in time!  Your post came in just as I was getting ready to post this, let me rerun the list randomizer with you included.

 

Picking Order:

1. Cathie

2. Lavi

3. Lastalda

4. Nat

5. Fiona

 

METALS

1. CB Silver donated by Fiona Lavi

2. CB Silver donated by Fiona Lastalda

3. 2g Gold from Solstice donated by Lavinia [lineage] Fiona

4. 2g PB Silver donated by Lastalda [lineage] Fiona

5. 2g PB Silver donated by Cathie [lineage] Fiona

6. 2g Silver from female White Zyumorph donated by Lavinia [lineage]

7. 2g Silver from male Chrono Xenowyrm donated by Lavinia [lineage]

8. 2g Silver from male Witchlight donated by Lavinia* [lineage]

9. 2g Silver from Mistletoe donated by Lavinia* [lineage] Cathie

10. 2g Silver from male Shadow Walker donated by Lavinia* [lineage] Fiona

 

SHIMMERS

11. 2g Bronze Shimmer Copper Noodle x Silver Tinsel donated by Fiona [lineage] Lastalda

12. 3g Silver Shimmer Luckiest Catch x Royal Blue donated by Lastalda [lineage] Lavi

13. 3g Silver Shimmer (7ClA2) x Celestial donated by Fiona [lineage] Lavi

14. 3g Silver Shimmer Lady Raphy x Summer donated by Lavinia [lineage] Lastalda

15. 3g Bronze Shimmer Caveborn Holiday Prize x Red Nebula donated by Lastalda[lineage] Cathie

16. 4g Gold Shimmer Angelight Goldenpearl x Tsunami donated by Fiona [lineage] Lavi

17. 4g Bronze Shimmer Schimmernder Drache x Winter donated by Lavinia[lineage]

 

TINSELS

18. 2g Gold Tinsel from Garland donated by natayah Cathie

19. 3g Silver Tinsel x Rainbow Copper checker donated by Fiona [lineage] Nat

20. 3g Silver Tinsel Glyphe x Celestial donated by Fiona [lineage] Lastalda

 

COPPERS AND MORE

21. 2g Rainbow Copper from alt Shadow Walker donated by Fiona [lineage] Nat

22. 2g Liver of Sulfur Copper from male Mageia Xenowyrm donated by Lavinia* [lineage]

23. 2g Liver of Sulfur Copper from male Mageia Xenowyrm donated by Lavinia* [lineage]

24. 2g Verdigris Copper from female Balloon donated by Lavinia* [lineage]

25. 3g PB Rainbow Copper donated by Lavinia* [lineage]

 

*Given to me to donate by DC friends of mine and natayah's.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Lavinia

[Natayah]

CB gold prize x Garland 2G Gold Tinsel of that clears up and his very first baby, so brand new line

 

I'm happy to participate and if there are anymore donations needed and/or if anyone wants an IOU Breeding Ticket from *anything* on my scroll minus the CB prize

[Lastalda]

4 hours ago, Natayah said:

CB gold prize x Garland 2G Gold Tinsel of that clears up and his very first baby, so brand new line

 

I'm happy to participate and if there are anymore donations needed and/or if anyone wants an IOU Breeding Ticket from *anything* on my scroll minus the CB prize

HUGE CONGRATS on that prize! What a well-deserving winner!

 

My pickings:
18, 11, 1 (gender irrelevant), 2 (gender irrelevant unless I get both XD), 13, 14, 20, then pass

Edited July 11, 2018 by Lastalda

[Fiona]

So many pretty things to choose from.

 

I don't see Nat in the rotation. Maybe slip her in ahead of me?

 

My choices: 4, 5, 3, 10, 22, 23  and then we'll see where we're at. Pretty much any of the donations would be welcome so it's hard to choose. *eyes 18 and drools*

[Lavinia]

@Natayah, did you want to get some of the shinies too, or just donate?

 

I'd love to claim either 1 or 2 on my turn - female if possible please?

Edited July 11, 2018 by Lavinia

[Fiona]

Sorry, it looks like I just missed the window to be able to influence, as they both were right at 4 days. I unfogged and they hatched immediately.

[Natayah]

If you are able to slip me in, it would be 21, 19, then I shall Pass. Then I need to go redo my lineage names and get someone who wants to help me organize. Must hunt them down!

 

[Grandmother_cathie]

Sorry I'm late coming in again!  18 , 9, 4, 15, 14  and I promise I'll come back in the morning! 

Edited July 12, 2018 by Grandmother_cathie

[Lavinia]

Whew, nearly 4 rounds in one go!  Please let me know ASAP if I missed anything.

 

I guess I'm passing now, all the rest look pretty familiar.  😉

 

Cathie and Fiona, whaddaya want?

 

[Lastalda]

Whee, thanks!

I'll hatch those shimmers before sending them, to make sure Influence sticks...

 

Edit: all sent off

Edited July 12, 2018 by Lastalda

[Grandmother_cathie]

I'm pleased as punch with mine, I'll pass.  Thanks for the pretties!!!!

[Fiona]

There's nothing there that I would not enjoy, so I guess start with 6? lol. Am I the last one in?

 

And Lavi, you  haven't picked up the gold shimmer from Angelight and silver shimmer from Celestial. They're about to hit 3 days so I'll have to break the teleport, influence and hatch them. I'll remake the teleport when I can but it's going to be a busy day.

[Lastalda]

Yup, you're the last one standing. All remaining shinies: go flood @Fiona

[Fiona]

Yum.

[The Fifth Element]

I have added the new breeds to the timeline, Mastersheet and front page.

Huge THANK YOU to @Grandmother_cathie for taking charge of the voting!

 

Now that the shiny drawing is through (thank you @Lavinia!), shall we continue discussing the new breeds and adding mana affinity as an argument for adding a breed?

 

~ Lastalda

Edited July 16, 2018 by The Fifth Element

[Lastalda]

My last suggestion for assigning DC mana to our elements was this:

 

EARTH - Earth

WATER - Water, Ice
WIND - Air, Lightning

FIRE - Fire, Light (if referring to physical light)

LIFE - Magi, Light (if referring to spiritual light)

UNASSOCIATED: Life, Dark, Death, Time, and Balance/Neutral.

 

My suggested wording (as an example):

old:

FIRE - Dragons who control or are comprised of fire or electricity. Also those that resemble fire or the sun or which are controlled by or strongly tied to the sun.

new:

FIRE - Dragons who control or are comprised of fire or electricity. Also those that resemble fire or the sun or which are controlled by or strongly tied to the sun, OR dragons strongly tied to Light mana (if referring to physical light) or Fire mana.

 

Any comments/further suggestions on this?

 

Oh, and while we're at this, can we add "or have a strong affinity to and tolerance of flame or intense heat (possibly those living only in volcanic areas)" to the Fire criteria, please?

Because that makes so much sense, and most of us have been using it that way forever, anyway, I think... (That would shift the focus from necessarily "being (on) fire" towards including "loving fire". But seriously, a dragon breed who really loves fire and scorching heat is IMHO at least a good a candidate for an elemental category called Fire as one whose hatching cycle is merely associated with the sun... )

 

Any other descriptions that might benefit from an update, while we're at it?

 

As for the new breeds:

I don't see anything elemental about black truffles.

Pyrovars, however, look very much like Fire candidates to me. They

- live in areas with lots of volcanic activity
- love soaking in scalding hot water
- powerful flame breath
- fire magic (& fire mana)
- incubate their eggs in geothermal spots (so they even let fire hatch their eggs)

 

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Lastalda
fixed typo

[Stormfriend]

Since truffles are life forms (hails from Oregon here — truffles are afairly common), I would think of them in Life. But the dragon’s description doesn’t bear it out.

[Fiona]

I like your proposed changes to our definitions, Lastalda, including your bolded suggestion.

 

I'm going to vote yes for Pyrovars in Fire, in case I wasn't clear before.

[Lastalda]

Thanks for posting an opinion, @Fiona.

 

I'll be offline on vacation for the next 2 weeks and a bit, so I'll leave discussions on these things open until I return (August 8th-ish), and if it looks like we have a consensus to vote on, I'll call for a vote then (also for a vote on the new breeds). Yes?

Edited July 18, 2018 by Lastalda

[Grandmother_cathie]

On 7/16/2018 at 4:07 AM, Lastalda said:

My last suggestion for assigning DC mana to our elements was this:

 

EARTH - Earth

WATER - Water, Ice
WIND - Air, Lightning

FIRE - Fire, Light (if referring to physical light)

LIFE - Magi, Light (if referring to spiritual light)

UNASSOCIATED: Life, Dark, Death, Time, and Balance/Neutral.

 

My suggested wording (as an example):

old:

FIRE - Dragons who control or are comprised of fire or electricity. Also those that resemble fire or the sun or which are controlled by or strongly tied to the sun.

new:

FIRE - Dragons who control or are comprised of fire or electricity. Also those that resemble fire or the sun or which are controlled by or strongly tied to the sun, OR dragons strongly tied to Light mana (if referring to physical light) or Fire mana.

 

Any comments/further suggestions on this?

 

Oh, and while we're at this, can we add "or have a strong affinity to and tolerance of flame or intense heat (possibly those living only in volcanic areas)" to the Fire criteria, please?

Because that makes so much sense, and most of us have been using it that way forever, anyway, I think... (That would shift the focus from necessarily "being (on) fire" towards including "loving fire". But seriously, a dragon breed who really loves fire and scorching heat is IMHO at least a good a candidate for an elemental category called Fire as one whose hatching cycle is merely associated with the sun... )

 

Any other descriptions that might benefit from an update, while we're at it?

 

 

I like a LOT of what you have on here.  The only things I'd add/change specifically are that I'd add Life and Death in our Life category.  (sorry, Dark, Time and Balance, y'all are SOL.)

 

Round 1 - Rewording definitions  Here's my first go at some rewordings.....

 

EARTH - Dragons comprised of, strongly resembling, or able to control rock, metal, and/or dirt, POSSIBLY those residing in the earth OR Dragons strongly tied to Earth Mana.

FIRE - Dragons who are comprised of, control, or have a strong affinity for and tolerance to flame, electricity, or intense heat. Also included are those that resemble fire or the sun or which are controlled by or strongly tied to the sun, POSSIBLY those living only in volcanic regions, OR Dragons strongly tied to Light Mana (if referring to physical light) or Fire Mana.

LIFE - Dragons who rely on or are affected by a very specific part of nature (excluding those mentioned elsewhere), which must be different from the majority of other breeds. Dragons who have control of magic in a way that is different from other breeds, possess mana pertaining to mental or spiritual control, having a significant positive or negative effect on the world that is different from other breeds, or having a significant effect on a very specific part of nature which must be different than the majority of other breeds, OR Dragons strongly tied to Magi Mana, Light (if referring to referring to spiritual light) Mana, Life Mana, or Death Mana.

WATER - Dragons who are comprised of or control water in either its liquid or solid state. Also those that live in water in its liquid or solid state the entirety of their lives. OR Dragons strongly tied to Water Mana or Ice Mana.

WIND - Dragons comprised of gas or with a strong connection to weather, the atmosphere, or the cosmos. POSSIBLY those that spend a majority of their time in the air. OR Dragons strongly tied to Air Mana or Lightening Mana.

[Fiona]

That looks pretty good, Cathie.

 

I really do think Life mana at least should be included in the Life category, as Life mana is very strongly nature related, and we already have a number of breeds that are Life mana related.

 

Also, didja get your new dragons yet?

 

I'm not absolutely certain my new breed is elemental. We can discuss it once TJ's adult and we can see the whole breed description. I'm not really seeing a lot to be hopeful for on the other breed at this point.

[Fiona]

TJ's new dragons have grown up, so here are the two new breeds ready to be considered:

Siyat Dragons are extremely smart and have an excellent memory. They are very quick and will often dive through the air making chirps and calls for attention if they feel ignored. Siyat dragons are herbivores and need to eat a lot to make up for all the energy they use with their excitable nature. Groups of Siyat Dragons have a hierarchical structure based on the color of their markings. It is thought that the social status of a dragon is determined by its incubation period—in addition to having different coloration, dragons allowed more time to develop are considered wiser and of higher status.

 

Mimic Pygmies seem quite harmless during the day with their impish grins. However, at dusk they show their true nature, drawing on Death mana to imitate the voices of the dead, using their mimicry to lure the unsuspecting into an ambush. Once drawn into the circle of their colony, Mimic dragons will attack in a swarm, disabling their victim then settling down to lap up the welling blood from their still-living prey.

 

Mimics use death mana, so whether or not these qualify for the lineage may be determined by whether we think death mana qualifies in the life category. They use light and sound as elements in luring their prey, but their hypnotic effect is more important. I can answer any questions you guys have about these, as they are my concept.

 

Siyats seem to be more time based than anything else. They are glowy, so possibly light (physical light). I think I need to see what else Corteo has to say about them.

[Lavinia]

@Fiona Siyats look glowy, but there is nothing I see in the description about their glowiness?

 

No on Truffles, yes to Pyrovars if we're doing Lastalda's addition to the fire category definition (which I'm guessing will be a yes).

 

I looked at the encyclopedia entries for every current Life breed, and NONE of them even have an elemental affinity to Death (or Water or Air, all others are represented).  The ones I thought would likely have Death affinity (Desipis, Witchlight) actually had Dark affinity.  And the Dark element is listed as the inverse of the Light element (in the spiritual sense).  Maybe we shouldn't count Death mana?  Maybe we should count Dark mana?  There are currently also not very many breeds which have an affinity for Death mana (complete list: Black Marrow, Brute, Caligene, Fell, Fever, Seragamma, Vampire) so there are not very many data points. I'm very much still pondering. [Yes I know that DC elemental affinity is not what we are considering as counting toward Elementality, but I figured (a) no breed is going to have a very strong tie to a mana type without being listed as having an affinity to that element and (b) I'm still trying to suss out exactly what the DC element categories mean, so info from non-Elemental breeds is still useful there.] 

[Fiona]

Well, add Mimics to the short list that have Death mana. It's a point that none of our current breeds ended up with Death mana. As I said above, if we go with Death as the anti-thesis to Life, and include it our definition of the Life category then I think Mimics belong in the lineage. If we don't include Death mana in the definition then I don't see Mimics being elemental. I don't want that to influence the decision in any way, but it's a point here.

 

I believe the colors on the Siyats' wings and belly is the glow, though I can ask Cort for sure if you'd like. I'm not sure what causes the glow. There's probably going to be something in the encyclopedia entries that explains the glow more but I haven't seen that written yet, and it's obviously not in yet.

 

Edit: Corteo says the spots on their body glow. It is bio-luminescent.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Fiona

[Natayah]

I don't want to make "Life" Overly Complicated, but to me, life falls neatly into the 3-4 Categories, which just also happen to be the Core Elemental Categories and Avatars. Both Death and Dark are part of Life. They just lie on the "Death/Destruction/Darkness" side of it, especially since "Light," as long as it is not a literal flame/fire based form of light, especially when you lean on the themes of spectrum of religion or color theory or vibrations, Dark can be All Colors, No Colors, Absence of Anything/Life (which is still related to Life). It is just Dark/Destruction Life. That is usually represented by Black, A Dark Color, or Grayness. Then there is the Currently Living Vibrant and/or Nature related Life, and sometimes which if you don't want to make Balance its own category, can be stuck in there. Generally Green. You could Stick Chaos in with either Prior Definition depending on how you want to look at it, or just then divide Chaos into Positive Chaos vs Negative Chaos and then they divide neatly into their own of Destruction and my next Upcoming one.Then there is Light/Life which is the form of birth, rebirth, spirituality, afterlife, light (not fire). Usually White, Rainbow, Crystalline/Iridescent, etc. And again, those who seek Balance above all, respecting all three and abhorring those who try to exist outside of the "natural cycle" (like Undead, Vampires - think Raven Queen) and seeking to destroy anything that defies this "natural order" and/or anything that tries to raise one aspect out of proportion with the others, etc. I don't really know what "color" best represents this. (Just going to be honest here, I dwell on this topic a lot because in my universe, my GoNs hold "Natural Balance" as the ultimate Good and that is what rules and it creates an interesting form of Tyranny I enjoy). So, you would just stick those "Defying Balance" into Death/Darkness so Zombies and Vampires and whatever else exist within the Realm of Life, but more in defiance and as a mockery of it, even if they were not really able to "choose" it. Balance can be the over-reaching Top and the others 3 under it, or easier to stick it in with the Nature/Vibrant Currently Living Life Aspect as when everything is in proper balance, Life and Nature just progress "naturally" (I am so punny).

 

I don't really know what color I'd choose for Balance. Although I would default to a sort of pearlescent purple or dark purple or amaranthine/amaranth or indigo (only because GoN are mostly purple) or swirl of color or a sort of Yin-Yang symbol of (colors here, not themes) : Dark Color, Green Color, Light/White Color and either swirl them inwards or just have them be a triangle. OR a symbol without color that is just a symbol, like celtic knots or even the dang Recycle Triangle Arrows forever cycling symbol (which is probably just a knockoff of the triangle knot thingie I am blanking on its name).

 

Why did I write all of this? Well, because obviously to me Dark fits in there, and while I approve of the current or proposed definitions, I know Life is a really hard to define "element" unless you are looking at it from that perspective. Then I think it becomes exceedingly much easiser. I think when TJ spent time creating "elements" in this world and how they are joined and categorized, I think he did a pretty good job, and this is a pretty standard view of it throughout time. I do not know how you write that as a definition.

 

I promise to be around more in the coming month and go properly name some of my dragons more but yes:

 

I would vote Pryovars for Fire Easily.

I would vote Mimic Pygmies for Life Easily.

I really wish I could vote for Truffles for Life. I want there to be some Breed characteristic where they actively cultivate fungus gardens, or help oversee biome decay and regrowth of their territories, or seek out places fallen "ill" and help correct it with fungus/mold/decay and regrowth or something. I'm not thinking this will magically become part of their breed description just because I will it to be. They also have some really rust shading which, while for breeding I can mix that with chocolate, it also seems to reflect the "rust" colors we see in Coppers. But instead of being "Metal" that is a more "Natural Rust" of Fungus and Decay and whatever. But just because I will it does not make it so.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Natayah