Jump to content
The Fifth Element

The Fifth Element Lineage

Recommended Posts

Lavinia, I didn't see CB green coppers in your list. (I could have missed them, of course) I didn't check thoroughly to see if there were any others. I'm sure we'll get new breeds before you're done anyway though.

 

I've been working on mine too. I'm having a little trouble getting some of my pairs to cooperate. But my harvest x undine pairs gave me 5 eggs. Hoping one of them is an alt. (alts don't count as a separate breed, the same as they don't count as separate for alt vines or nebulars. But I put them in anyway.)

Share this post


Link to post

We recently revamped the Leeloo rules. You can use 2nd gens not bred from your scroll for CB prize offspring (either shiny or fail). Golds, silvers, and holidays are not currently listed as acceptable 2nd gens not bred from your scroll but I don't know if that actually changed or we forgot to write them out in the new rule set.

 

Fi: oh, I thought we could only have one copper CB in the all-inclusive, and thus were limited to only getting two of the colors, because copper colors can be bred from each other. Is that incorrect, can we have 2 copper CBs in the all-inclusive to get all three types?

Edited by Lavinia

Share this post


Link to post

Yes, you can have two cb copper colors because it's impossible to breed all three colors from one cb. However, you must breed the third color.

Share this post


Link to post

Edit to add: Are we allowed to use 2nd gens (specifically holiday/tinsel/shimmer/metals) not bred from our scroll for the all inclusive, considering some holidays may no longer be available as CB to some of us (and CB metallics are like...well. You know.)? Same goes for non holiday/etc 2Gs from before-mentioned holidays, etc. I need to plan my own all inclusive as well, lol! (thanks for the kick in the pants, Lavinia, lol!) We are allowed to use bred 2G metals/tinsel/shimmers for the Metallic Leeloo, but not their common offspring, if it's from another scroll. (which is why I'm asking)

2nd gen offspring of prizes and CB hybrids: yes.

 

2nd gen offspring of holidays and 2nd gen metallics: we actually haven't really discussed this!

I'm thinking it makes little sense to allow 2nd gen metallics in the metallic Leeloo but not in the all-inclusive Leeloo, so I'd vote yes on those (but they have to be metallics, just like in the metallic Leeloo. 2nd gen metal-kin don't count).

 

I'm unsure about 2nd gens from holidays... discuss? (Fiona, your opinion would be especially important, as this milestone was your idea.)

Edited by Lastalda

Share this post


Link to post

I would be in favor since at this time there is no option for newer players to get a CB of past holiday dragons themselves. Also, I'd say it should be either the holiday dragon itself or another breed bred from one, because why make people wait until the holiday to be able to add that breed to their leeloo?

 

On the metallics, I think we should follow the same rules across the board, so an all-inclusive can have a 2nd gen metal bred from someone else's metals, but not a kin. Metals aren't that hard.

Share this post


Link to post

But isn't "any 2nd gen from holiday" just too easy?

Getting 2nd gen metals at least requires some effort...

Maybe we should restrict it to 2nd gen holidays?

An all-inclusive takes over a year, anyway, because of the seasonals that need breeding...

(For prizes and CB hybrids we allow kin, but even those are way harder than 2nd gen metals and 2nd gen holidays.)

 

Not callng final judgement, just throwing the thought into the discussion...

Share this post


Link to post

If you're lucky you can get all 4 seasonals in just over 3 months, so a year isn't actually needed. If you already have say, a fall seasonal CB and you're lucky enough to get a winter from it in late March, which grows up and breeds you a spring egg some time in the next 3 months, then late June you breed that spring to something and get a summer egg, bang, you've got all four seasons and only needed from just before March 21 to just after June 21. If you're lucky, of course.

 

 

It's the other stuff that will take forever. dry.gif

Edited by Fiona BlueFire

Share this post


Link to post

My two cents on using 2Gs bred from another scroll:

 

2G from Prizes and CB Hybrids (Thuweds*): Yes. Breed doesn't matter.

 

2G Holidays: Yes. I'm leaning more towards allowing holiday + kin, since otherwise, getting pretty elemental Holidaykins wouldn't amount to much as far as breeding for a project. We could count them for totals but that would be it. (Obviously you are free to do with your dragons what you want, lol, besides 5E stuff) And 5E players would be forced to wait for each Holiday cycle to attempt to get a 2G Holiday, which depending on the market, could be easier or harder (or impossible) for some *shrug* (Obviously, setting aside the generosity of our very own 5E Lineage participants wub.gif)

 

2G Metals: Yes, but metal only. We have a milestone section that awards a bred metal, so if you need one for the metallic/All Inclusive, etc, complete that milestone and wait for a shiny! (That's what I did!)

 

We could use whatever we vote on this stuff across the board for the Leeloos 6G+. Anything under that (5G-) is generally easy enough to gather on your own anyway, with a little time and effort. (My opinion, anyway) You can do 5G- without holidays with the amount of breeds we have at the moment, if I did the math right...

 

*The current CB hybrids, as far as I know are: Soulpeace x Winter Magi, Hellhorse x Copper, Shallow Water x Bluna, and Geode x Stone.

 

There are a few Thuweds that have CB ALT breeds as well...If you are lucky enough to have one, could we use 2G from any of those pairings in the All Inclusive? ex: Alt Vine x Green and Alt Nebula (Red) x Royal Blue

Share this post


Link to post

They wouldn't count for an All-Inclusive because they don't actually raise the number of breeds in the final generation. In fact, for Soulpeace, Bluna, Shadow Water and Geode they actually decrease the number of breeds in the final dragon because the way it's set up now you have to breed your own, which means using two CB dragons you have three breeds represented. If you used a CB hybrid you'd only have the two.

 

As far as regular leeloos, I don't see a problem allowing them, under similar rules as the other specials.

 

I would consider the Hellhorse ok for any leeloo if one is lucky enough to have a 2nd gen. There are, as far as I know, only three CB Hellhorses in existance. Two are TJ's and I don't believe the male has a breeding partner yet. His female is mated to a Green Copper. The other is Winya, and I have a 2nd gen Hellhorse from her, with a Green Copper father.

 

Lastalda, yes, allowing holidaykin does make them fairly easy to get. Does that matter though? We could make getting a 2nd gen holiday a milestone gift, which could then fall under the same rules as 2nd gen metallics. However, gifting them would then completely fall into the narrow time window between late October and mid February. And does it really promote the lineage to make it harder both for gifters and giftees? The holiday periods tend to be a little hectic already. And as said already, it would hold up a lot of progress on leeloos, since 2nd gens are major early building blocks.

Share this post


Link to post

For the cb hybrids I didn't mean for the all inclusive (just in general)- but we probably could use the alt ones and breed the rest of the alts from it - just the starting color changed I guess..... Ah but that would require having a regular vine or a differently colored nebula from those pairs. NEVERMIIIIND.

But for a regular leeloo I don't see anything against using them. smile.gif

 

Fiona, that was pretty much my thought about the holidays.

Share this post


Link to post

Hey, any of you want a free 2nd gen green undine from harvest? I have two so far. I did get the yellow one I need for my All-Inclusive. Yay!

 

Claim Link!

Claim my eggs/hatchlings!

 

It would be nice to know where they end up. smile.gif

 

-claimed-

-claimed-

 

One out of five. Hmm. Well, no spares, but I got the alt undine I needed. The rest would like new homes, please.

 

ETA: fixed the 2nd ones link. Oops.

Edited by Fiona BlueFire

Share this post


Link to post

I don't know if we need to make things hard, I just figured these should require some effort since 2nd gen metals require some effort. xd.png (I think the milestones awarding 2nd gen metals as reward were introduced specifically to give members without CB metallics a chance to do the metallic Leeloo anyway.)

 

I'm not in principle against using 2nd gen holiday-kin. (Though since the All-inclusive is possible without holidays, you don't need to use holiday-offspring, contrary to the metallics needed for a metallic Leeloo...)

 

The All-inclusive Leeloo should require effort, since we award a CB gold for it - but I guess with all the breeding-things-from-each other (I'm dreading especially the Xenos, to be honest), they're probably hard enough. And I guess it's not really fair to require lots of effort from newer players while older players can just breed the CB holidays they have on their scroll easy-peasy...

 

CB hybrids/alts: I'm generally not in favour of making exceptions to the "all from your own scroll" rule for things you can include by breeding. Which means: 2nd gen offspring of CB hellhorses yes, because otherwise you can only get hellhorses by breeding from horses, which are not elemental. So using a 2nd gen from CB hellhorse is the only way to include hellhorses in your Leeloo. Which is why we already allow these for all 6th+ gen Leeloos.

All the other hybrids and alts can be bred from elemental parents, though, so I'm against allowing 2nd gens from off-scroll for those in any Leeloos.

 

I agree that all of these potential rule changes should apply to 6th+ gen Leeloos in general.

 

Let's keep the discussion up for a bit and call a vote early next week, yes?

Edited by Lastalda

Share this post


Link to post

I agree with your thinking about CB hybrids/alts. Hellhorses are the only off-scroll 2nd gens permitted in leeloos by my way of thinking since that's the only way to get Hellhorses in a leeloo.

 

I figured trying to breed all the different Xenos one from the other was enough headache without making the 2nd gens from holidays a headache too. laugh.gif That's going to be the killer on my all-inclusive plan. Plus getting all the Avatars. The Lunar Heralds shouldn't be too bad. That's just watching the moon phases and breeding at the right time. As you said though, in a 6th gen leeloo all the holidays are optional. It's a bit more of a struggle in a 7th gen, especially an all-inclusive.

Share this post


Link to post

Milestone gifted!

GIFTER:Lastalda

RECEIVER:Grandmother_Cathie

GIFT:http://dragcave.net/lineage/WBMRl

MILESTONE:4A - 100 elements in Earth

GIFT:http://dragcave.net/lineage/cFf3A

MILESTONE:3D - 15 Mints

GIFT:http://dragcave.net/lineage/eGTjp

MILESTONE:4A - 100 elements in Wind

GIFT:http://dragcave.net/lineage/lPUay

MILESTONE:3D - 15 daydreams

 

Thank you so much Lastalda!!!

 

When I get a little more sheep I'll come back and read the posts about 2nd gens and the like and put in my 2 knuts worth

 

edit: sleep not sheep. by bed is calling me right now.

Edited by Grandmother_cathie

Share this post


Link to post

Ack, totally forgot to post it.

 

Lastalda gifted me a cb lindwurm for one of my milestones.

Trying to copy paste and view excel on my phone is catastrophic, so I'll do it when I get home later!!

 

@cathie....lol sheep xd.png

Share this post


Link to post

Hey, any of you want a free 2nd gen green undine from harvest? I have two so far. I did get the yellow one I need for my All-Inclusive. Yay!

Grabbed the 'nother one because of the mother's name. tongue.gif

 

The first two links are the same, FYI.

 

2nd gen metals (but not metalkin) for Leeloos: I'm in favor. I think at this point, most people in the lineage do have a CB silver and a CB gold that they could use, but (1) this isn't true of everyone in the lineage and (2) I don't want to assume it would be true of future members of the lineage.

 

As for 2nd gens from holidays for Leeloos, I'm torn. On the one hand, I do feel like Leeloos, especially the All-Inclusive, should be special, and 2nd gen holidaykin are very easy to get. Unlike 2nd gens from prizes or 2nd gen metals, 2nd gen holidaykin are very easy to get from the AP. On the other hand, I also am missing CBs of some elemental holidays (Shadow Walkers, Heartseekers, Winter Magis), and I understand the frustration of not being to put them in Leeloo plans.

 

Possible Compromise Idea #1: 2nd gen holidaykin not bred from your scroll can be included, but must have elementally named parents? It doesn't make sense to limit 2g metals or 2gs from prizes to elementally named parents, but I think a 2nd gen holidaykin for a Leeloo can be pretty easily requested from this group and have at least one parent named elementally.

 

Possible Compromise Idea #2: 2nd gen holidaykin do not get an exception but can still be included by the 2nd gen metal rules. So, no 2nd gen commons from holidays, but they would be valid mates for the 2nd gen metals that are part of the Leeloo.

 

Disclaimer: my compromise ideas are selfishly motivated in part, due to my desire to use this gorgeous man as part of mine.

Edited by Lavinia

Share this post


Link to post

I'm pretty sure the gorgeous you have there is covered by the current "2nd gen metals from off-scroll are allowed" rule, as that rule does not say anything about the mate breed (except they need to be elemental, of course). smile.gif

 

Hm. I kinda like Lavinia's idea #1, though.

It introduces a bit of restriction so that not any old egg will do, but without the pain of waiting for the right holiday. Getting these is still easy. But since the parents must be named elementally, they won't even stick out in the final lineage...

What do others think?

 

(Idea #2 is already allowed, IMO, but would be limited to 2 holidays (one mated with gold, one with silver. So I don't think it's a helpful solution)

Edited by Lastalda

Share this post


Link to post

I'd be in favor of #1 compromise. It both answers the "it's too easy!" and "but I don't want to wait for Halloween!Christmas!Valentines!" to build my leeloo.

 

 

and all anyone really has to do to get a 2nd gen from any elemental holiday is ask me.

 

And I agree with Lastalda's assessment of #2. We already let 2nd gen metals with any elemental mate in leeloos. That one wouldn't change anything. And Lavinia could already use her gorgeous fella in her leeloo.

Share this post


Link to post

When I was planning my all-inclusive Leeloo over the weekend, I wasn't sure if 2g metals not from my scroll would be allowed, so I didn't include him. I'll definitely be fixing that tonight. biggrin.gif

Share this post


Link to post

Milestone gifted!

GIFTER: Lastalda

RECEIVER: mishii

GIFT: CB Green Opal

MILESTONE: 3C: 15 Elements of Single Breed (Deep Sea)

 

Also, I like Compromise #1 as well. Clarify: ONE or BOTH parents should be elementally named? I'd be fine with either. (Leeloo general rules state at least one of each pair, be it your own scroll or not, need Elemental names - except Metals/Prizes or the Hybrids)

 

Offscroll stuff for leeloos:

Holidays: Okay with Holiday or Holidaykin (with restriction - Compromise 1)

Metalkin- No. 2G metals only.

CB Hybrid Hellhorse - Yes (either breed I guess?)

Other Hybrids or Alts: No. (That makes sense, Lastalda)

Prizes: Any breed. (So either Prize or Prizekin, bred Prize can be substituted for a bred metal for Metallic Leeloo, as stated)

 

(Also, I have to laugh, haven't been back that long and I'm already living up to my previous title of Loophole Girl. Sort of. LOL!!)

Edited by mishii

Share this post


Link to post
Clarify: ONE or BOTH parents should be elementally named? I'd be fine with either. (Leeloo general rules state at least one of each pair, be it your own scroll or not, need Elemental names - except Metals/Prizes or the Hybrids)

Good question. I suppose it would fit best with the general Leeloo rules to require only one elementally named parent. Both parents would, of course, be nicer (as always tongue.gif), but I'm for going analoguous to the existing system.

 

CB Hybrid Hellhorse - Yes (either breed I guess?)

Yes, either breed, just like CB prize offspring. That's already covered by the current General Milsetone Rule #8:

 

(8) For Leeloos of 6th or higher gen, you may include 2nd gen offspring from CB prizes (or CB hybrids that cannot be bred from elemental parents), even if the parents are not on your scroll and not elementally named. These 2nd gens can, but do not have to, be the same breed as their prize/hybrid parent.

 

So the only thing we'd need to adjust would be a rule for CB holiday offspring. So we'd get something like

 

(8) For Leeloos of 6th or higher gen, you may include 2nd gen offspring from CB prizes (or CB hybrids that cannot be bred from elemental parents), even if the parents are not on your scroll and not elementally named. You can also use 2nd gen offspring from CB holidays on another scroll, but at least one of the parents must be elementally named. All these 2nd gens can, but do not have to, be the same breed as their prize/hybrid/holiday parent.

 

Or is that too complex? Should we make two separate rules?

 

Further discussion/ideas still welcome, of course. smile.gif

Share this post


Link to post

Someone in group Owns Alt Sweetlings but can't remember who unsure.gif would like to ask for favour biggrin.gif

Share this post


Link to post

I claimed the last little Undine, Fiona. Cute lineage!

 

I need to start planning my all-inclusive... but I also need to breed back a bunch of the ones I lost /sigh. That'll take a while.

Share this post


Link to post

Finally, after about 2 years because of stubborn dragons I've finished my 2nd metallic Leeloo!

 

Grandfather request

FORUM NAME: Lastalda

SCROLL NAME: Lastalda

MILESTONE IN QUESTION: 6th gen metallic Leeloo for http://dragcave.net/lineage/K0yIG

GIFT REQUESTED: CB Silver

REASON: I was only 2 successful breedings away from completion when the milestones changed

 

Hope I did this right. unsure.gif

 

Now I need to poke airaani, deb or Pink into deciding on it... xd.png

 

(And of course, they promtly refused each other... xd.png)

Share this post


Link to post

Grats Lastalda! Pretty!

 

Oops, double posted - edited it into here instead:

 

Milestone request correction

MILESTONE EARNED: 3C: 15 Daydreams

ORIGINAL REQUEST: CB Green Lindwurm (opal)

NEW REQUEST: CB BLUE Lindwurm (opal)

 

 

Milestone request correction

MILESTONE EARNED: 3C: 15 Hellfires

ORIGINAL REQUEST: CB Green Lindwurm (opal)

NEW REQUEST: CB BLUE Lindwurm (opal)

 

dry.gif oops

Copy and pasted wrong to Lastalda via PM the first time, my bad. :<

 

Grandfather request

FORUM NAME: mishii

SCROLL NAME: mishii

MILESTONE IN QUESTION: 3E: 4G leeloo from AIR (this Daydream)

GIFT REQUESTED: CB Pyrope Pyralspite

REASON: Bred this back in August of 2011, when we considered Nebula Alts as a separate breed (I'm pretty sure)

 

Milestone Earned!

FORUM NAME: mishii

MILESTONE EARNED: 3B: 50 Elements in single category (AIR)

GIFT REQUESTED: CB Blue/Green Lindwurm or Pyrope Pyralspite

VERIFICATION: My Verification Spreadsheet ((Personal Spreadsheet)

Edited by mishii

Share this post


Link to post

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.