Racism

[Blacksmithy]

Racism of any kind is horrible. I go to a school that isn't really that diverse, almost everyone is Hispanic/Latino and whoever isn't is treated equally. In fact, my closest friend is Irish! I think humanity should have moved past the era of racism and discrimination a long time ago, but we seem to be stuck there...

[Artius]

I hate racism, though I've never had this happen before. I'm from Korea and there's no racism here, also I know some white people in real life and thankfully they're always nice to me. I think every person in the world should be equal. Everyone should have a right to dignity, respect and freedom. So racial discrimination should be eliminated.

Edited August 5, 2016 by artiuslove

[SlyFox]

My view on racism is probably controversial because I'm one of those dreaded conspiracy theorists. I, personally, didn't grow up with racism. There were literally all races in all of my grade/junior high/high/college schools. Nobody paid any attention to race that I could see and everyone was just... people. I honestly didn't notice any true racism until these BLM protests started happening and I'm 42. Maybe I've been sheltered, but my belief is that the "establishment" has created racism to get everyone fighting as part of a much larger, insidious agenda. I don't believe most racism out there is even real (not people's true feelings), but designed.

[Paradisiske]

That's the best analogy I have seen used in explaining the Black Lives Matter movement. Kudos.

 

No one is saying "Only black lives matter." What is meant is "Black lives matter too."

Here's a really good analogy like this "Black Lives Matter, to use an analogy, is like if there was a subdivision and a house was on fire.

The fire department wouldn't show up and start putting water on all the houses because all houses matter.

They would show up and they would turn their water on the house that is burning

Because that's the house that needs the help the most."

[6Sigma]

lmao

 

lmao indeed

 

You wanna separate that out any or just talk about a huge conglomerate of people as if their looks/skin color/etc is the same?

 

But yeah, as I just said above, skin color/shade//features/etc. play a role in racism. But make no mistake that Asian-Ams still face plenty of racism.

 

Obviously different ethnicities within categories such as “Asian” or “Hispanic” largely do better or worse depending on how they came to the US which could be family sponsorship, selection factors (education/skills) or via refugee programs. Nigerians, for example, do well here because of selection factors. It’s akin to better outcomes from selection at sperm banks. It’s not about racism oppressing certain groups here. Racism has declined rapidly, yet indicators such as the black-white IQ gap still persist.

 

I didn’t separate them because the stats aren’t that specific; nonetheless, it wasn’t necessary for illustrating my point. Instances of police-on-Asian shootings are lower than what their population proportion would suggest. Blacks, Hispanics, and whites are more likely than Asians to be shot by police. What could explain this? According to your reasoning, it should be because cops feel less racial animus against Asians than everyone else (including whites). A more realistic explanation is that Asians have low crime rates.

 

Btw, what kind of “racism”? Asians are pigeonholed as being successful. Who doesn’t want that? You’ll also find "Asian privilege". Asians make more than whites, are more educated than whites, experience less crime than whites, are seen as less threatening by everyone, etc. All things SJWs claim whites cheated for. The list goes on, so what is oppressing them? What gives them oppression points? I know people complain about stereotyping such as Asian males being short, socially awkward nerds, but those kind of things also apply to a part of the white population. There are POC in the US who are seen as attractive by many and will receive more positive attention and be out of the league of a portion of the white population. You can't just arbitrarily assign oppression points because we're individuals.

 

Because racism and how black cops are treated could have nothing to do with this.

 

If white cops are out there murdering them for sport, it kind of goes without saying that black cops should have a better policing record. It’s a nonsense hypothesis to think white cops are convincing black cops to shoot black kids for just being black, as you had put it.

 

Moreover, what is your basis for assuming this? You seem to have your mind already made up that any gap between racial groups has to be because of racism. The world is more nuanced than that. Black cops get more complaints even from other blacks. It’s probably largely an issue with the applicant pool and training focus. What does it mean that runners and basketball players are generally black? Just because an equality in outcome isn’t there, doesn’t mean it’s due to racism.

 

but I also have to wonder if these stats are in context are not - are they corrected at all for how many black vs white cops there are?

 

Other studies have been consistent with these findings. From the 2nd link:

 

“This finding runs counter to concerns that white officers are overrepresented among officers using lethal force and is consistent with several previous studies of officer race and police use-of-force.”

 

A caveat is both of those studies weren’t on the national level, but from what I read, police officers of different racial groups behave rather similarly.

 

All you have to do is look at any one of the hundreds of names on the 2016 list of murders to see this isn't true.

 

A list of names isn’t going to tell you what’s justified and what isn’t. I’ve seen the videos. I’ve seen how absurd the public can be about them.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/fat...5275_story.html

 

“As was the case in 2015, in most fatal shootings by police this year, officers were confronted by subjects armed with guns. In half of such cases, those persons fired at police, prompting officers to fire their own guns to defend themselves or to protect bystanders.”

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investiga...uty-under-fire/

 

“In 74 percent of all fatal police shootings, the individuals had already fired shots, brandished a gun or attacked a person with a weapon or their bare hands, according to an analysis of actions immediately preceding the shootings, which draws on reports from law enforcement agencies and local media coverage. These 595 cases include fatal shootings that followed a wide range of violent crimes, including shootouts, stabbings, hostage situations, carjackings and assaults.

Another 16 percent of the shootings came after incidents that did not involve firearms or active attacks but featured other potentially dangerous threats. These shootings were most commonly of individuals who brandished knives and refused to drop them.

 

The 5 percent of cases that are often second-guessed include individuals who police said failed to follow their orders, made sudden movements or were accidentally shot. In another 4 percent of cases, The Post was unable to determine the circumstances of the shootings because of limited information or ongoing investigations.”

 

All you have to do is look at all the white terrorists (CO Springs shooter, theater shooter, etc.) who are brought in alive, even though they are quite literally committing acts of terrorism and literally attacking the cops.

 

Seriously? The white cops have such racial animus that they won’t get angry enough to shoot on the spot a white mass murderer or someone shooting at them, but will shoot the black kid for just walking? I’m definitely hoisting the BS flag on this one.

 

100% confident. Sandra Bland was point blank murdered by cops before they even bothered to take her mugshot, and to barely-even-attempt to cover it up, they took a picture of her murdered face and called it a mugshot. There are dozens of analyses out there on her mugshot with incredibly evidence showing she was already dead.

 

It’s a conspiracy theory with as much evidence as the various lists of assassinations that surface every now and then about the Clintons.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015...ridiculous.html

 

“The argument being put forth: the background’s photo looks like the cell floor; she’s wearing an orange jumpsuit, while most mugshots taken at the jail feature street clothes; her eyes look “flat,” as USA Today puts it.

 

Buzzfeed observes, however, that “mugshots of other inmates at Waller County Jail … were taken against a similar background.” And a two-page statement from the Waller County Sheriff’s Department released Thursday explained the jumpsuit.

 

“Depending on how many inmates are being processed at this time, an inmate’s photograph may be taken in their original clothing, or the inmate may be dressed out in orange,” it read.

Forensic pathologist Michael Baden shot down the theory in comments to USA Today. The eyelids of the dead typically droop when open, he says, while her eyes appear “purposefully open.”

 

He continues to the Daily Beast, “To say that she’s dead from the photo is ridiculous because you can say that about almost any head photo. You have to use evidence.” And another forensic pathologist says a low-resolution photo will never be capable of providing that evidence. “From just looking at a photo, there are no signs.”

 

There is video from the police station itself, from the arrest itself, showing that Sandra Bland wouldn't have committed suicide. She was very adamant on not dying, on not wanting to die, on making sure her health status was stated so that she would not die.

 

Look at the nurse who killed herself after that prank call that she was barely even a part of. People kill themselves over triggers even less significant than what Sandra went through. How can you claim that it wouldn’t have been traumatizing? You can’t know that.

 

Are you quoting the same "justice" system

 

Many cops are protected by a union. Unionization generally means better working conditions and protections (e.g. teachers -- administration has difficult time getting rid of them even for things like sexual misconduct). Cops will then want better legal protection to ensure “grey” areas don’t result in them being condemned by an ignorant public. They will want to protect themselves even for small perceived risks.

 

Some possible shooting scenarios:

 

• A kid is carrying a realistic looking gun. He does not directly point it toward the police, but also refuses repeated commands to drop it.

 

• A suicidal guy has a gun to his own head. The cops yell at him to lower it. He starts to lower it in the direction of the cops. They shoot.

 

• A guy is carrying a cell phone, refuses commands to stop or to drop it, and screams threats at the police. The cops shoot because they don't know it's a cell phone from 50 ft away.

 

Jurors are responsible to follow the facts and make an informed decision. People think highly of cops and generally view them as “heroes”. It is more difficult to get a conviction partly because of this public perception.

 

that has not convicted any of these murderers? The same police and justice system that has falsified and ignored evidence?

 

Darren Wilson? It would be unethical to put him in jail. You’re a good example of why police unions want a “blue wall”.

 

Have you even read the DOJ report?

 

https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files...ael_brown_1.pdf

 

The justice system outcomes are partly the disparity of violent crime rates, and the generalizations that inevitably come from it. Is the justice system “sexist” against men? Because they’re more likely to be convicted and get stiffer sentences than women.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/m..._n_1874742.html

 

“The study found that men receive sentences that are 63 percent higher, on average, than their female counterparts.

 

Starr also found that females arrested for a crime are also significantly more likely to avoid charges and convictions entirely, and twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted.”

 

And yes, those were racism.

 

Tamir Rice was shot because he reached for the toy gun (at least when I last looked they had better resolution images). That case appears more to do with having better ways at resolving issues.

 

As for Walter Scott, I don’t know if the cop would discriminate (e.g. disapproval of interracial dating etc.) and neither do you. White people get questionably killed by white cops just like Walter Scott for reasons that aren’t about racism.

 

You don't utilize an illegal chokehold - while shoving all your weight on him as he lies on the ground - on a man crying out that he can't breathe and not intend to kill him.

 

The video did not show intent to kill whatsoever. The DOJ still hasn’t charged him and probably never will. He didn’t have his arm around his neck area that long, and his airway wasn’t blocked by it. Even HuffingtonPost tried to educate and inform in the aftermath. Garner had a number of health problems: heart disease, asthma, diabetes, obesity, and sleep apnea

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/05/n..._n_6272000.html

 

If you pay attention to any of these cases, the most disrespect you might find are: 1) Scared teens/kids walking away from cops who have approached them when they are clearly obeying the law, 2) informed citizens citing their rights and being ignored by the cops, 3) having the audacity to exist with dark skin.

 

Not true at all. You come across as incredibly biased, you know? I don't know why people use something a person did prior, and say that's why they got killed. It's just disingenuous to say, for example, that Trayvon got killed for buying skittles and Arizona ice tea or Garner was killed because he sold cigarettes. They have cause and effect whacked.

 

And if you can't deal with being in compromising situations sometimes, then you're not in the right job.

 

In the majority of fatal shootings, the person already attacked, brandished a gun, or shot at the cops. Even the cherry-picked examples BLM latches onto in the media can be inane examples of “police brutality”.

 

But being black doesn't make you dangerous. Having a gun assigned to you for your job does, however, make you dangerous.

 

Being black and male is associated with more violent crime. People stereotype for practical reasons. As a personal example, at the university I went to, whenever I got an email notification of campus sexual harassment, theft, etc., the suspects were almost always black, yet the black population was nowhere near the majority. However, in relation to this topic, it doesn’t seem to be that much of a factor in a cops' decision to shoot, because the shooting deaths correlate well with each racial groups’ proportion to violent crime. We also know the fast majority of them aren't about unarmed and non-belligerent people being shot.

 

Do you know how many arrests police make? Shootings are a tiny fraction of interactions that police have with people. Since officers are vetted and trained, no matter what racial group you are, there is little to worry about of an officer intentionally killing you for just being black. It’s really simple to not resist or break the law.

 

As I already said, I've read multiple sources. I have watched the videos of these atrocities.

 

Yeah, well, you seem dismissive of anything that doesn’t fit the narrative that you want to believe in.

 

It's black people. Not "blacks".

 

Blacks, whites, black people, white people -- It’s all good. It might be better if I just capitalize them.

 

[Rosedamai]

Btw, what kind of “racism”? Asians are pigeonholed as being successful. Who doesn’t want that? You’ll also find "Asian privilege". Asians make more than whites, are more educated than whites, experience less crime than whites, are seen as less threatening by everyone, etc.

I don't know, actual Asians??? Positive stereotypes are still negative and also like, if you look at the different ethnic groups within the broad "asian" title you throw us under, different ethnic groups do differently. Stop telling Asians how we feel and how we supposedly "don't" express racism

also us being seen as "less threatening" also makes us easier targets for crime

Being racially fetishized isn't a compliment js

[Daxillionyx]

I don't know, actual Asians??? Positive stereotypes are still negative and also like, if you look at the different ethnic groups within the broad "asian" title you throw us under, different ethnic groups do differently. Stop telling Asians how we feel and how we supposedly "don't" express racism

also us being seen as "less threatening" also makes us easier targets for crime

Being racially fetishized isn't a compliment js

Correct.

People think that there are no setbacks to being pegged as "successful" due to your race, but that's not true.

 

I have met Asian peers that have experienced the disappointment of their teachers and peers towards them because they weren't as smart as they were expected to be, meaning that they were Asian, but were not above average in their performance.

I can understand being disappointed in someone who is very intelligent/gifted, but the lack motivation, or did poorer than they usually do. But it sucks if you have not shown any indication of being extraordinary, but people assume you are because you or your parents were born in China, and you didn't live up to their set stereotypes. The pressure to be more than you actually can be without trying very hard is hard to deal with.

 

The same goes for a lot of other immigrants, like Indians and Nigerians. There's a running joke that, if you are a Nigerian college student, then you must be studying to either be a doctor, lawyer, or engineer. Anything else is considered by others to be beneath your intelligence or potential, even if those people don't know how smart you are, or what your potential even is.

 

There may be a few perks to being pegged as smart, but if you can't deliver or fit into people's pre-made expectations, then you have a big burden and disappointment to carry.

[DuskOfTheStars]

Correct.

People think that there are no setbacks to being pegged as "successful" due to your race, but that's not true.

 

I have met Asian peers that have experienced the disappointment of their teachers and peers towards them because they weren't as smart as they were expected to be, meaning that they were Asian, but were not above average in their performance.

I can understand being disappointed in someone who is very intelligent/gifted, but the lack motivation, or did poorer than they usually do. But it sucks if you have not shown any indication of being extraordinary, but people assume you are because you or your parents were born in China, and you didn't live up to their set stereotypes. The pressure to be more than you actually can be without trying very hard is hard to deal with.

 

The same goes for a lot of other immigrants, like Indians and Nigerians. There's a running joke that, if you are a Nigerian college student, then you must be studying to either be a doctor, lawyer, or engineer. Anything else is considered by others to be beneath your intelligence or potential, even if those people don't know how smart you are, or what your potential even is.

 

There may be a few perks to being pegged as smart, but if you can't deliver or fit into people's pre-made expectations, then you have a big burden and disappointment to carry.

 

This sooo much. I have ... personal reasons that involve my health... to feel pressured. The pressure, the pain... it's real.

 

Sure, for me it's pressure to disprove something, but it's also pressure to suceed...

Edited August 20, 2016 by Dusky_Flareon

[DragonKami]

Racism hurts both sides, the oppressed and the oppressor.

Recent cases in America would seem to fill the variables as, African Americans (The Oppressed), and White Police Officers (The Oppressor), in which they wouldn’t be wrong, to an extent. Let’s go back in time. Many people assume that because we have started to see police brutality more frequently, that it has just started or at least just picked up substantially, however, that is not the case. Police brutality has always occurred in America, but it wasn’t always a problem. Not that many people cared about it anyway, so even if someone was caught in the act it wouldn’t matter, on top of that, we didn’t have any way of proving these claims. Nowadays, with almost everyone having a high definition camera in their pockets (Phones) at all times, it makes it easier to capture this kind of stuff. However, if not for the New Generation trying to make a change, we would still be where we were before.

Let me serve it to you on a silver platter.

Since all this police shooting stuff started happening, and the black lives matter group kicked in, there had been videos of unjust police brutality surfacing from earlier dates, like 2014. This there all of this time, but no one really made a fuss about this so it never really came to light until recently.

Millennials may mostly consist of people who stay on their phones all the times and don’t even know what the stock market is, but we have to all agree that they have really made some big differences.

I’m talking about women’s rights, LGBT rights, and all that good stuff!

The older generations called frowned upon things like that, but as the world grows it becomes more and more understanding.

Here’s what I mean, Bestiality is frowned upon and disgusting now, but maybe in the future, people will have their rights, and you may not like it. It sounds bizarre, but I hope you see what I’m trying to paint on the board here.

Now let me get back into something I only touch up on, in my first sentence.

“Racism hurts both sides, the oppressed and the oppressor”

We already know what hurts the oppressed, but what about the oppressor?

(Just because you are a part of the “Oppressing Group” it does not mean you actually did anything wrong it just means that a small percentage of that group gave the all who fall into that category to be labeled that way, since there is no way of telling”

Well, it goes like this. You’re more likely to get persecuted.

Let’s look at it from the police officer’s side.

Some other Officers have unjustly killed, giving all of you a bad name. Okay, now you are just as bad as them in most people’s eyes, you’re a oppressor. Okay, it’s not so bad just do your job, and everything should go smoothly. Oh, now people are starting to unjustly kill Officers. Now you have to watch your back 24/7 great.

(I don’t that did my point justice, I kind of lost my train of thought there..)

Let me put it this way instead. This is something that isn’t exactly fair.

I was at a store where my brother works, and there was a African American guy who happened to have watermelon and baked chicken in his shopping cart, and there was a white guy who was waiting in line with that person. He made a joke about the items in the man’s cart, and everyone gave him a hard glare. Okay, that’s fine, but then I decided to do a little bit of experimenting, I wondered what would happen if I tried that myself.. So I did, I waited until the right moment. My brother was buying me something from the store, and he had to do whatever with restocking (I don’t know), and I noticed he had some of that baked chicken. So I grabbed a watermelon to set the scene. While we were walking past a few people including one person from the incident last time. So I made the same joke as the guy from last time (I don’t remember what it was) and some people laughed and the others just kind of kept going about their business, not looking insulted at all. It was then I confirmed that if you are white, you get persecuted easier than if you’re not. (I’m African American by the way)

Just about anyone can say “Mah *!” without being seen as racist, besides white people.

And hell! The whole Fried Chicken, Watermelon, Grape Juice, thing isn’t even racist, it’s a stereotype.

(I really think I missed a lot of stuff here, and there may be some grammar mistakes here and there, but I getting tired, and I’m way to lazy to fix them. Just call me out viciously and tear me apart like a pack of wolves about it later.)

(I also feel weird about calling people, White people, it feels weird.)

 

~ D-Kami

Edited August 20, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Obscure_Trash]

Here’s what I mean, Bestiality is frowned upon and disgusting now, but maybe in the future, people will have their rights, and you may not like it. It sounds bizarre, but I hope you see what I’m trying to paint on the board here.

 

The reason people have a problem with bestiality is that it is impossible for an animal to consent to sex with a human. I def wouldn't use it as an example for "this may be moral in the future", not to mention that plenty of unethical, violent, vicious stuff was legal in the past. That didn't make it okay.

 

Racism hurts both sides, the oppressed and the oppressor”

We already know what hurts the oppressed, but what about the oppressor?

(Just because you are a part of the “Oppressing Group” it does not mean you actually did anything wrong it just means that a small percentage of that group gave the all who fall into that category to be labeled that way, since there is no way of telling”

Well, it goes like this. You’re more likely to get persecuted.

 

I'm white, and I'm sorry, but I disagree with this.

 

Oppression isn't just outright going out and, say, killing black kids and hiding behind your badge to avoid charges. It's also about privilege - getting perks for being on the oppressing side of oppression, even if you are not consciously committing any obviously violent acts. It's about being allowed to wear your natural hair to work and to school. It's about having a far higher chance of being hired for a job or accepted to college. It's about having no chance of not being considered for a job just because of your name. It's about never being labeled a terrorist, even when you shoot multiple people. It's about the media presenting your story as sad and sympathetic no matter what you do - sell drugs or shoot someone. It's about having a far lower chance of seeing jail time for major and minor crimes.

 

It doesn't matter if someone is going out and using racial slurs or identifying themselves as a white supremacist. By existing in this system, they are actively benefiting from racism. We did not set up the system, no. But is it more unfair that we have to dismantle the system or more unfair that people are still being targeted and disadvantaged and killed because this system is still in place?

 

Also, we are not more likely to get persecuted. Sure, let's talk about cops. How many cops have seen any jail time for the murder of a black or brown person? How many cops lost their jobs due to these murders? How many were even suspended while the murder was being investigated? I can't think of one, and I can't even find anybody who has compiled numbers on this. But from the stories that have hit the media, you're not likely to find many, if any, cops that faced any negative consequences for shooting a black or brown person. In fact, Darren Wilson was literally made into a millionaire after supporters sent him donations after he resigned from the police.

 

I was at a store where my brother works, and there was a African American guy who happened to have watermelon and baked chicken in his shopping cart, and there was a white guy who was waiting in line with that person. He made a joke about the items in the man’s cart, and everyone gave him a hard glare. Okay, that’s fine, but then I decided to do a little bit of experimenting, I wondered what would happen if I tried that myself.. So I did, I waited until the right moment. My brother was buying me something from the store, and he had to do whatever with restocking (I don’t know), and I noticed he had some of that baked chicken. So I grabbed a watermelon to set the scene. While we were walking past a few people including one person from the incident last time. So I made the same joke as the guy from last time (I don’t remember what it was) and some people laughed and the others just kind of kept going about their business, not looking insulted at all. It was then I confirmed that if you are white, you get persecuted easier than if you’re not. (I’m African American by the way)

 

That's because there's a huge difference in power between the people telling these jokes. There's a huge difference in meaning.

 

When you did this, it was a joke, yeah? It was supposed to be funny. It was basically poking fun at yourself. That's fairly innocent humor.

 

But the white guy who said this? It's unlikely he had the same intentions. To you, it's funny because you actually like that stuff. To the white guy, it's funny because for some reason, you liking this stuff is supposed to make him seem superior in some way. It wasn't him making some clever or insightful joke. It wasn't him poking fun at himself or a friend. It was him, full well knowing these are stereotypes, deciding to point this out, like the shopper in front of him probably wasn't well aware of what it could look like. Watermelon and fried chicken have a long history in being used as mocking and disparaging antiblack jokes for decades. When you make a joke involving those items, it's kind of self-deprecating. It's you acknowledging this stereotype and deciding to laugh at it. When the white guy says the joke, it's baked up by centuries of racism. There's a totally different context.

 

The Atlantic has a pretty good and interesting piece on the importance of watermelon and race: There's not profanity in the article but there may be in other links/descriptions for other articles. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archiv...t-trope/383529/

 

Free black people grew, ate, and sold watermelons, and in doing so made the fruit a symbol of their freedom. Southern whites, threatened by blacks’ newfound freedom, responded by making the fruit a symbol of black people’s perceived uncleanliness, laziness, childishness, and unwanted public presence.

 

They also did on article on watermelon and fried chicken: Link contains the antiblack racial slur. Profanity possible in descriptions for other articles. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archiv...-racist/357814/

 

The problem stems from the way fried chicken is associated with black people, and the historical baggage that comes with it. The same way blackface recalls minstrel shows, the "black people love fried chicken" image recalls negative portrayals of black people. According to Claire Schmidt at the University of Missouri, it started with Birth of a Nation, the 1915 film on the founding of Ku Klux Klan. In one scene:

 

[A] group of actors portraying shiftless black elected officials acting rowdy and crudely in a legislative hall. (The message to the audience: These are the dangers of letting blacks vote.) Some of the legislators are shown drinking. Others had their feet kicked up on their desks. And one of them was very ostentatiously eating fried chicken.

 

"That image really solidified the way white people thought of black people and fried chicken," Schmidt said.

 

Now, if you are okay with your friends making jokes that like, it's perfectly fine! It's your life, and that's your choice.

 

But me not being able to tell jokes baked up by decades of racism doesn't hurt me. And it's about the least amount of effort I can put in to not support racist institutions. ^^

[Daxillionyx]

Okay.

 

Here’s what I mean, Bestiality is frowned upon and disgusting now, but maybe in the future, people will have their rights, and you may not like it. It sounds bizarre, but I hope you see what I’m trying to paint on the board here.

 

Just a little note, bestiality isn't the best example to use. If something like bestiality becomes "normal" and "moral" in the future, then humanity definitely deserves to slowly die in the hole its dug for itself.

 

You have a point with the oppressors being hurt by racism. The officers are a good example. Those slain officers were just doing their jobs, and they were killed because of their jobs.

 

But your convenience store example does not have much ground. First, we have to mention white privilege, and yes it exists. As SockPuppet said, there is a difference in power between the white man and you guys, and the motives behind the same joke may very well be different.

Context: Black people were enslaved and oppressed by white people for many years. White people used terms like n* in derogatory manners to describe these oppressed people.

Fast-forward and now we are all equal (in theory). Should whites still use such a term so freely now, considering the cultural history and baggage tied into the meaning and use of the word?

 

I do not think so. It means something else coming from a Caucasian's mouth. I don't really understand why black people use it on themselves (I am black, mind you), but it definitely doesn't have the same connotation when a white person uses it. And there is no need to even say something like that in the first place, so Caucasians are not suffering by not being able to say racial slurs whenever they want to.

[DragonKami]

Okay.

 

 

 

Just a little note, bestiality isn't the best example to use. If something like bestiality becomes "normal" and "moral" in the future, then humanity definitely deserves to slowly die in the hole its dug for itself.

 

You have a point with the oppressors being hurt by racism. The officers are a good example. Those slain officers were just doing their jobs, and they were killed because of their jobs.

 

But your convenience store example does not have much ground. First, we have to mention white privilege, and yes it exists. As SockPuppet said, there is a difference in power between the white man and you guys, and the motives behind the same joke may very well be different.

Context: Black people were enslaved and oppressed by white people for many years. White people used terms like n* in derogatory manners to describe these oppressed people.

Fast-forward and now we are all equal (in theory). Should whites still use such a term so freely now, considering the cultural history and baggage tied into the meaning and use of the word?

 

I do not think so. It means something else coming from a Caucasian's mouth. I don't really understand why black people use it on themselves (I am black, mind you), but it definitely doesn't have the same connotation when a white person uses it. And there is no need to even say something like that in the first place, so Caucasians are not suffering by not being able to say racial slurs whenever they want to.

Well, yea, that's what I mean.

 

Doesn't the notion of something like bestiality just disgust you? It seems totally irrational and improbable. That's pretty much what people thought and said about people being gay back then.

I personally think that using bestiality is kind of a good example, because it's something that we all can agree is messed up.

However, each generation gets more and more accepting of things, for better or for worse.

 

I have to agree with you, the convenience store example really was a embarrassingly faulty example.

 

It's good to know that you caught what a was pitching.

[DragonKami]

The reason people have a problem with bestiality is that it is impossible for an animal to consent to sex with a human. I def wouldn't use it as an example for "this may be moral in the future", not to mention that plenty of unethical, violent, vicious stuff was legal in the past. That didn't make it okay.

 

 

 

I'm white, and I'm sorry, but I disagree with this.

 

Oppression isn't just outright going out and, say, killing black kids and hiding behind your badge to avoid charges. It's also about privilege - getting perks for being on the oppressing side of oppression, even if you are not consciously committing any obviously violent acts. It's about being allowed to wear your natural hair to work and to school. It's about having a far higher chance of being hired for a job or accepted to college. It's about having no chance of not being considered for a job just because of your name. It's about never being labeled a terrorist, even when you shoot multiple people. It's about the media presenting your story as sad and sympathetic no matter what you do - sell drugs or shoot someone. It's about having a far lower chance of seeing jail time for major and minor crimes.

 

It doesn't matter if someone is going out and using racial slurs or identifying themselves as a white supremacist. By existing in this system, they are actively benefiting from racism. We did not set up the system, no. But is it more unfair that we have to dismantle the system or more unfair that people are still being targeted and disadvantaged and killed because this system is still in place?

 

Also, we are not more likely to get persecuted. Sure, let's talk about cops. How many cops have seen any jail time for the murder of a black or brown person? How many cops lost their jobs due to these murders? How many were even suspended while the murder was being investigated? I can't think of one, and I can't even find anybody who has compiled numbers on this. But from the stories that have hit the media, you're not likely to find many, if any, cops that faced any negative consequences for shooting a black or brown person. In fact, Darren Wilson was literally made into a millionaire after supporters sent him donations after he resigned from the police.

 

 

 

That's because there's a huge difference in power between the people telling these jokes. There's a huge difference in meaning.

 

When you did this, it was a joke, yeah? It was supposed to be funny. It was basically poking fun at yourself. That's fairly innocent humor.

 

But the white guy who said this? It's unlikely he had the same intentions. To you, it's funny because you actually like that stuff. To the white guy, it's funny because for some reason, you liking this stuff is supposed to make him seem superior in some way. It wasn't him making some clever or insightful joke. It wasn't him poking fun at himself or a friend. It was him, full well knowing these are stereotypes, deciding to point this out, like the shopper in front of him probably wasn't well aware of what it could look like. Watermelon and fried chicken have a long history in being used as mocking and disparaging antiblack jokes for decades. When you make a joke involving those items, it's kind of self-deprecating. It's you acknowledging this stereotype and deciding to laugh at it. When the white guy says the joke, it's baked up by centuries of racism. There's a totally different context.

 

The Atlantic has a pretty good and interesting piece on the importance of watermelon and race: There's not profanity in the article but there may be in other links/descriptions for other articles. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archiv...t-trope/383529/

 

 

 

They also did on article on watermelon and fried chicken: Link contains the antiblack racial slur. Profanity possible in descriptions for other articles. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archiv...-racist/357814/

 

 

 

"That image really solidified the way white people thought of black people and fried chicken," Schmidt said.

 

Now, if you are okay with your friends making jokes that like, it's perfectly fine! It's your life, and that's your choice.

 

But me not being able to tell jokes baked up by decades of racism doesn't hurt me. And it's about the least amount of effort I can put in to not support racist institutions. ^^

Yea, I don't exactly agree with it you know. I was just using something that I know that people detest. That way I could try to get my point across easier.

I do get what you are saying though.

 

Actually I was mainly focusing on the whole Police Officer thing, then I got I little side tracked, and the point you make is true, however, I think you misunderstood me.

I wasn't trying to say that the oppressors have t just as bad, or all that. I was merely saying the both sides take damage, based on the context, one side can hurt more than the other.

 

When I used the word, Persecuted, I meant that in any way possible, those Officers may not have got any justice served to them, but that stirred up emotions in people causing the to fire upon Officers, (Even if those individuals didn't do anything wrong.)

 

Okay, okay.. I'll admit defeat here, that may not have been a good example. It may have been a really bad one. Yu made some really good points here, and I won't shamelessly try to deny it.

 

(Dang, like I thought, there were a lot of holes in my argument, and you sure showed me that, as I thought you would. To be honest, I just wanted to get all of that and really get some opinion on it, because I was thinking about it on a thirteen day vacation we just had.)

(I'll come back here when I'm not sick and tired with a scrambled brain.)

 

[tardograd2]

~Removed~ Edited September 2, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[georgexu94]

While these discussions are great, I just want a practical side. How to deal with racism? How to react to issues directly affecting your life?

 

So here's my story.

In Metro Manila, Chinese are usually seen as the elite class. They are seen as the wealthy and well-educated. I'm saying there are discrimination of the Chinese against Filipinos. Anyway, I'm a Chinese who is working at a local organisation owned by Chinese. Well, my fellow Filipino colleagues are expressing their misgivings how Chinese employees are given more attention, trust and higher salary. How do I respond to that? They are the ones suffering from discrimination and I'm enjoying the benefits from the so called elite race. It's making me guilty and it's not even my fault.

[Kyath The Dream Worker]

I think because human instinct works wrongly and they learn this from other people in their country.

That's rediculous.

 

And that reason why I hide my contry in other online communities.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Kyath The Dream Worker

[Fuzzbucket]

On 1/3/2018 at 9:18 AM, georgexu94 said:

While these discussions are great, I just want a practical side. How to deal with racism? How to react to issues directly affecting your life?

 

So here's my story.

In Metro Manila, Chinese are usually seen as the elite class. They are seen as the wealthy and well-educated. I'm saying there are discrimination of the Chinese against Filipinos. Anyway, I'm a Chinese who is working at a local organisation owned by Chinese. Well, my fellow Filipino colleagues are expressing their misgivings how Chinese employees are given more attention, trust and higher salary. How do I respond to that? They are the ones suffering from discrimination and I'm enjoying the benefits from the so called elite race. It's making me guilty and it's not even my fault.

 

You can be extra nice to them; you can tell them you know it goes on and you understand that this is unfair, and you can refuse to co-operate in anything discriminatory that you can. You could even tell management that you are concerned.  And you could even try to set up a union ?

[maratrekkan]

Can you integrate the Filipino coworkers better into projects with Chineses employees... group bonding is important, and people tend to self segregate unconsciously.

Edited January 6, 2018 by maratrekkan

[Fuzzbucket]

That is a really good point, maratrekkan.

[georgexu94]

I appreciate those points, fuzzbucket and maratrekkan!

 

I do have power to join people in projects as a leader.

 

As for the setting up a union, I'm not certain how that works. I actually do not know what the objective of a union is. Shows I'm not aware of my surroundings.

[Fuzzbucket]

A union will fight for things like equal treatment, decent working conditions for EVERYONE, etc.

[JavaTigress]

On 8/20/2016 at 12:17 AM, SockPuppet Strangler said:

 

 

The reason people have a problem with bestiality is that it is impossible for an animal to consent to sex with a human. I def wouldn't use it as an example for "this may be moral in the future", not to mention that plenty of unethical, violent, vicious stuff was legal in the past. That didn't make it okay.

 

 

 

I'm white, and I'm sorry, but I disagree with this.

 

Oppression isn't just outright going out and, say, killing black kids and hiding behind your badge to avoid charges. It's also about privilege - getting perks for being on the oppressing side of oppression, even if you are not consciously committing any obviously violent acts. It's about being allowed to wear your natural hair to work and to school. It's about having a far higher chance of being hired for a job or accepted to college. It's about having no chance of not being considered for a job just because of your name. It's about never being labeled a terrorist, even when you shoot multiple people. It's about the media presenting your story as sad and sympathetic no matter what you do - sell drugs or shoot someone. It's about having a far lower chance of seeing jail time for major and minor crimes.

 

It doesn't matter if someone is going out and using racial slurs or identifying themselves as a white supremacist. By existing in this system, they are actively benefiting from racism. We did not set up the system, no. But is it more unfair that we have to dismantle the system or more unfair that people are still being targeted and disadvantaged and killed because this system is still in place?

 

Also, we are not more likely to get persecuted. Sure, let's talk about cops. How many cops have seen any jail time for the murder of a black or brown person? How many cops lost their jobs due to these murders? How many were even suspended while the murder was being investigated? I can't think of one, and I can't even find anybody who has compiled numbers on this. But from the stories that have hit the media, you're not likely to find many, if any, cops that faced any negative consequences for shooting a black or brown person. In fact, Darren Wilson was literally made into a millionaire after supporters sent him donations after he resigned from the police.

 

 

 

That's because there's a huge difference in power between the people telling these jokes. There's a huge difference in meaning.

 

When you did this, it was a joke, yeah? It was supposed to be funny. It was basically poking fun at yourself. That's fairly innocent humor.

 

But the white guy who said this? It's unlikely he had the same intentions. To you, it's funny because you actually like that stuff. To the white guy, it's funny because for some reason, you liking this stuff is supposed to make him seem superior in some way. It wasn't him making some clever or insightful joke. It wasn't him poking fun at himself or a friend. It was him, full well knowing these are stereotypes, deciding to point this out, like the shopper in front of him probably wasn't well aware of what it could look like. Watermelon and fried chicken have a long history in being used as mocking and disparaging antiblack jokes for decades. When you make a joke involving those items, it's kind of self-deprecating. It's you acknowledging this stereotype and deciding to laugh at it. When the white guy says the joke, it's baked up by centuries of racism. There's a totally different context.

 

The Atlantic has a pretty good and interesting piece on the importance of watermelon and race: There's not profanity in the article but there may be in other links/descriptions for other articles. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archiv...t-trope/383529/

 

 

 

They also did on article on watermelon and fried chicken: Link contains the antiblack racial slur. Profanity possible in descriptions for other articles. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archiv...-racist/357814/

 

 

 

Now, if you are okay with your friends making jokes that like, it's perfectly fine! It's your life, and that's your choice.

 

But me not being able to tell jokes baked up by decades of racism doesn't hurt me. And it's about the least amount of effort I can put in to not support racist institutions. ^^

Interesting articles Sockie.

 

I DO recall that , not being aware of all the history behind it or the stereotypes connected to it, I was PUZZLED growing up when I first became aware that watermelons had racist connotations...or COULD have. After all, I used to think.... LOTS of people, and not just those of African American descent, like them.  I think that article does a good job of explaining the issues with some of those stereotypes.

 

Edited January 8, 2018 by JavaTigress

[hazeh]

So, the NFL just passed a policy that says that players aren't allowed to kneel or sit during the National Anthem. They may stay in the locker room, but on the field they're forced to stand. 

Which... I find extremely unsettling. This is basically forced nationalism, which is extremely no bueno. I mean, schools can't even force kids to stand and partake in the Pledge of Allegiance, even if they threaten punishment-- they tried to do so to me as a kid, and my moms would not have it. So how is it that an entire multi-billion organization can do so to the players without infringing on the right to peaceful protest? I'm glad at least that I don't even like sports, much less football. 

Considering it has nothing to do with veterans or respect for the military, I can't see this anything other than a decision born of intent to silence those who are protesting against police brutality and racism (since that's the purpose of it to begin with!). 

 

Thoughts? Opinions? 

[StormWizard212]

17 hours ago, hazeh said:

So how is it that an entire multi-billion organization can do so to the players without infringing on the right to peaceful protest?

 

This is absolutely baffling. I honestly don't have words. 

 

17 hours ago, hazeh said:

I can't see this anything other than a decision born of intent to silence those who are protesting against police brutality and racism (since that's the purpose of it to begin with!). 

 

I can't either. Those involved in this protesting have done so subtly, quietly and respectfully. They are not causing disruption, conflict or violence/danger. On that basis alone, I can't see any reasonable justification for this policy. But the origins of this movement make its implementation absolutely deplorable. It's a kick in the teeth to anyone of colour and the ultimate statement of the NFL's lack of solidarity and support for racial equality. 

 

17 hours ago, hazeh said:

I mean, schools can't even force kids to stand and partake in the Pledge of Allegiance, even if they threaten punishment

 

I worry that this policy will have a ripple effect in schools/colleges. I remember reading reports a while ago about schools trying to strong-arm students into standing, under threat of expulsion or removal from teams, of scholarships, etc. This policy sets a precedent for schools/colleges to follow suit and enforce similar regulations themselves. Even if they technically aren't allowed to, it hasn't stopped them from trying in the past. The threat of consequences, whether they can actually be carried out or not, is often enough to deter people from acting, anyway. 

 

I honestly don't even know what to think. This degree of aggressive nationalism is seriously unsettling. 

[Raldoron]

Racism is natural.

Most of the time people just project the misfitings of a particular person/group to the entirety of similar people. Ancient.

Sometimes this seems intuitive.

 

But these days people make more fuss out of it for the sake of fuss. Very useful to make people bicker or get oppression points and benefits for thyself. Distasteful.