Posted July 3, 2016 (edited) Fully agree with you Vexx and Dragoniclove123. We may have these tendencies, but in the end they just hurt people. And I thought Truth vs Twilight was very illuminating. It also goes to show why I never will read those books. I was not impressed with Meyer twisting the Qulieute culture. At all. Edited July 3, 2016 by Dusky_Flareon Share this post Link to post
Posted July 5, 2016 I agree. People shouldn't be judged. It's their life, not yours. It's all well and good to repeat opinions like this, but we have to face reality: People WILL Judge and be judged by others. Bottom line. No matter how many times people tell each other not to judge, judgement will always be present wherever humanity is present. So we need to move on from thinking and saying "Don't Judge," and think about how to best handle judgement when it does come. I'm in no way saying racism and sexism are good things, because they are not. But we need to come to terms with the fact that they exist and we can't with them away just by calling foul on them. Judgement is a part of life. It's not a glamorous point of view, but it's realistic. Human beings are judgemental by nature. We make judgements every single day, whether we know it or not. We make judgement calls about when to wake up, where and why we go or don't go somewhere, etc. We judge people, to determine whether we call them "acquaintance" or "friend" or "trustworthy." We judge that person on the road with us that's swerving this way and that as either drunk, high, or distracted behind the wheel, and use that judgement to avoid their car. What I'm saying is this: The phrase "Don't judge." has been misused a lot in recent years. We need to be specific. Judgement calls can save your life, or they can show racism. They can be a product of common sense, or a product of prejudice. We need to stop throwing phrases around without explicitly defining the context and definition we use. Second, people are racist and sexist. What are you going to do about it WHEN you encounter it? (By YOU I mean everyone). We need to focus more on actively handling those problems. That brings more change and results that just saying that people shouldn't judge in the first place. They WILL judge, whether we believe they should or not. So, are you prepared for that moment? I hope I made sense. Share this post Link to post
Posted July 5, 2016 All I have to say on this is the same as what I always say in regards to: Sexism Homophobia Racism Ableism And any other discrimination towards a person is wrong. I've always been an incredibly open minded person. And all I can say is that, to me, it doesn't matter wether a person is Black, White, Asian, Gay or Straight, disabled or not, male or female, ect ect. If they're a nice person to me, I'll be a nice person to them. Its as simple as that. Whereas if someone is hateful to me, at first, I will try to ignore it. If it carries on, I'd retalliate. Simple. Share this post Link to post
Posted July 7, 2016 (edited) It's all well and good to repeat opinions like this, but we have to face reality: People WILL Judge and be judged by others. Bottom line. No matter how many times people tell each other not to judge, judgement will always be present wherever humanity is present. So we need to move on from thinking and saying "Don't Judge," and think about how to best handle judgement when it does come. I'm in no way saying racism and sexism are good things, because they are not. But we need to come to terms with the fact that they exist and we can't with them away just by calling foul on them. Judgement is a part of life. It's not a glamorous point of view, but it's realistic. Human beings are judgemental by nature. We make judgements every single day, whether we know it or not. We make judgement calls about when to wake up, where and why we go or don't go somewhere, etc. We judge people, to determine whether we call them "acquaintance" or "friend" or "trustworthy." We judge that person on the road with us that's swerving this way and that as either drunk, high, or distracted behind the wheel, and use that judgement to avoid their car. What I'm saying is this: The phrase "Don't judge." has been misused a lot in recent years. We need to be specific. Judgement calls can save your life, or they can show racism. They can be a product of common sense, or a product of prejudice. We need to stop throwing phrases around without explicitly defining the context and definition we use. Second, people are racist and sexist. What are you going to do about it WHEN you encounter it? (By YOU I mean everyone). We need to focus more on actively handling those problems. That brings more change and results that just saying that people shouldn't judge in the first place. They WILL judge, whether we believe they should or not. So, are you prepared for that moment? I hope I made sense. And the answer is - don't judge and keep it quiet or mutter to your friends - speak out. When someone on the subway tells a coloured person to get off, tell THEM to get off. When someone spits on a woman in a burqa in the street - go up to her, apologise for them and offer her a kleenex to wipe it up. When someone scrawls "Polish vermin out" on a front door, go to that house with a box of cookies and tell the family they are welcome in YOUR home. Wear a #ridewithme button whenever you are on public transit. When someone in your home says something "ist", tell them to stop it or leave. That kind of thing spreads. That kind of thing MIGHT help stamp it all out. Look at one example. There are many others. Edited July 7, 2016 by fuzzbucket Share this post Link to post
Posted July 8, 2016 If your only complaint is that you're "less cool" (by the opinions of people you don't even seem to like), then consider yourself lucky. There are people who are murdered because of their dark skin. There are people who will never get ahead in life because they're not white. Appreciate what you have, because once you're out in the big bad world, you'll be glad that you can get pulled over by a police officer without having to worry about getting killed. Share this post Link to post
Posted July 13, 2016 And the answer is - don't judge and keep it quiet or mutter to your friends - speak out. When someone on the subway tells a coloured person to get off, tell THEM to get off. When someone spits on a woman in a burqa in the street - go up to her, apologise for them and offer her a kleenex to wipe it up. When someone scrawls "Polish vermin out" on a front door, go to that house with a box of cookies and tell the family they are welcome in YOUR home. Wear a #ridewithme button whenever you are on public transit. When someone in your home says something "ist", tell them to stop it or leave. That kind of thing spreads. That kind of thing MIGHT help stamp it all out. Look at one example. There are many others. Exactly. Actions and leading by example is what brings change. Saying a poorly-understood phrase over and over does nothing but desensitize people. Share this post Link to post
Posted July 18, 2016 You may have opinions, have pride in your identity, make jokes, have movements, protest, be beautiful, empowered, etc. Unless you're a cis hetero white person. Then you're racist, sexist, homophobic, naïve, ignorant. "White privilege! Check your privilege!" the people cry. Not allowed to have opinions, you must censor yourself, must deal with being generalized (but heaven forbid if a white person generalizes other races), being demanded that they have to pay for things that no one in this current generation had to deal with, being hated for the color of skin, etc. Yep. Really enjoying that white privilege. Hate is perpetuating hate. Racism is a huge problem on BOTH sides. It's a two way street. Share this post Link to post
Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) Racism is all about the oppression of one race towards another, so, personally, racism against white individuals would technically be prejudice. Racism thrives upon the suppressed societal, political and economical situation of individuals because of their ethnicity or color. A generalization when it comes to someone else because of their race or color is not necessarily racism, only because these generalities are hurtful and rude does not make them racist because they are not affecting the individual in a way that pertains to their economical, societal or political status. In American history, white individuals have indeed used oppressive tactics to dominante and discriminate against different races; this behavior being the root to what racism is today, inequality in its most raw expression. Now, this does not mean it is alright to discriminate against someone because of their color, be it white, black, brown or anything else, but racism and prejudice are very different from each other. Prejudice is simply a preconceived idea or assumption about an individual, disregarding a coherent reason or experience. This is what is experienced when there is racism against whites. A person should not be judged by their race in any moment, but rather be respected for who they truly are and how their actions affect others around them. Edited July 18, 2016 by andromedae Share this post Link to post
Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) Agreed. You make very good points :3 What bothers me though is that many act like white people are the only ones to ever oppress and subjugate other races and minorities. I do disagree with the usage of prejudice instead of racism. By definition: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior: "a program to combat racism" synonyms: racial discrimination · racialism · racial prejudice · [more] •the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races. Prejudice and racism are synonyms and here I refer back to my first post. Edited July 18, 2016 by LoveOfTheMoonChild Share this post Link to post
Posted July 18, 2016 You know what I don't like? The fact that we as a people, when a black guy shoots a white guy, the white community comes together and mourn. We dont riot, we don't vandalize, we don't destroy people's livelihood that they worked so hard on just to be destroyed in a matter of an hour. Yet, when a white guy kills a black guy, their people trying to have protests about it, but then the gangs like the Black Panthers (not to mention the opportunists) come in and causes trouble. That's what I don't like about their community. Louisiana is slowly going on a downward spiral. Three of our cops were killed (so pray for their families), three more were injured, one being in critical condition and now we got the gang rolling in to make their people look bad. It's not the fact I hate black people, in fact I love them. I work with black and I have a hoot just talking to them. They are the most hilarious people I have I ever meet. Not every one sees this side to them unfortunately. If they have never met a black person in their life. What makes them think black people could be as kind and generous if they watch the news and sees nothing but these gangs and opportunists riot all because a white guy killed one of their own? Share this post Link to post
Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) Prejudice and racism are not synonyms in this case since racism has "deeper roots" so to say, it goes beyond simple assumptions about who someone is regarding their ethnicity or color, or any other external characteristic. This is because racism is focused on oppression on different levels in relation to society, economy, politics and the general struggle for power amongst different types of people within society. It is true that the definition of racism simply states that any kind of hostile behavior because of the color of somebody's skin is defined as racism, but the concept possesses a greater complexity due to the way it has manifested in society, historically speaking. The reality of racism is much more crude, and goes beyond the hurtful opinions of one individual towards another because of color, which is why I say that racism against white people is in fact, prejudice rather than racism, which I may continue to affirm, is also wrong. When it comes to "riots and protests" from the black community, it is important to remember that they, as a race, have faced major societal oppression and violence throughout many, many years. An existing example is the police brutality situation. More than 100 unarmed blacks have been killed in circumstances regarding police brutality in 2015 alone. It is a massive issue that affects this community in particular, and needs to be treated as one that needs to be resolved, rather than making protests or the right to speak out to be seen as a problem. Media often portrays the way the black community speaks out as a complication to society, when it is quite the contrary, it is only a way to bring attention to what the real problem is. Protests are born as a way to manifest the importance of the issue itself, to bring attention to a situation that is taking lives from this community at an alarming rate. Black people deserve to express themselves, and speak out about the real problem. The white community does not protest because they are not a victim of the existing police brutality situation. Edits: grammar. Edited July 18, 2016 by andromedae Share this post Link to post
Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) You know what I don't like? The fact that we as a people, when a black guy shoots a white guy, the white community comes together and mourn. We dont riot, we don't vandalize, we don't destroy people's livelihood that they worked so hard on just to be destroyed in a matter of an hour. Yet, when a white guy kills a black guy, their people trying to have protests about it, but then the gangs like the Black Panthers (not to mention the opportunists) come in and causes trouble. That's what I don't like about their community. It's not that "a white guy shot a black guy". It's that "black people keep getting systematically murdered by cops and vigilantes who face no consequences whatsoever and are even rewarded in some cases (Darren Wilson being a good example)". Also, riots are completely justified, but I have to wonder if you're lumping together riots+vandalization with protests on the basis of not understanding why they are necessary and a realistic response to the murders. (And I think if you looked into this more closely, you'd see a lot of the vandalization that has happened during some riots is actually done by white protestors...) Also, the Black Panthers were not a gang and they did not "cause trouble" - at least not how you seem to be insinuating. They attempted to balance the scales and uplift and protect black people. Here are their ideologies, straight from wiki: Black nationalism (early) Maoism Anti-fascism Anti-imperialism Marxism–Leninism Revolutionary socialism Anti-racism Here are some things the Black Panthers actually did. Links may contain language - I have not checked super closely. http://66.media.tumblr.com/f1fa9d44ee80342...fgmbqo2_500.jpg http://67.media.tumblr.com/9b75121500284f5...fgmbqo3_500.jpg http://66.media.tumblr.com/6eb753e7ad2cae4...fgmbqo4_500.jpg http://67.media.tumblr.com/e67e1e17afb1f80...fgmbqo5_500.jpg http://65.media.tumblr.com/d513cf13b2a5020...fgmbqo6_500.jpg Society loves to portray the Black Panthers as the villains in America. They’ll only tell you that they held guns and were “militant”. The Black Panthers did many positive things for the Black Community; the Free Breakfast Program is one of them. It was designed to feed Black Children a good breakfast each morning so they could retain information at school. Too many Black Children, to this very day, go to school hungry because they cannot afford food in the morning. It has been proven that students do not learn as well when they are hungry. The Panthers were aware of this and wanted to ensure they had the opportunity to receive an adequate meal. As Huey said, “The Children always inherit the Revolution” so obviously they needed and still need to be invested in. They’ll never tell you about this but I’m not surprised. “I Do Not Expect The White Media to Show Positive Black Images.” Written By @KingKwajo Bobby Seale looking over bags of food being donated to the black community. That among other community initiatives. They had weapons training, self defense, their free breakfast program and ran a newspaper. They raised money to pay for bail and legal funding for people. And they used to notify the community of their rights and encourage people to know the laws and protest the one which were unjust. That type of irked the local police and damned sure struck a nerve with the FBI. They were taking back the streets and providing the protection the police were never interested in bringing to their neighborhoods from the very start. i would just like everyone to know that the modern disability rights movement in america would not exist without disabled black people like bradley lomax, chuck johnson, gary norris gray, don galloway, johnnie lacy, brigardo graves, and dennis billups, many addicts and felons from groups like delancey street, members of the chicano organization mission rebels, and the black panthers and their support from disabled black people overall (tw for use of the r-slur). never forget the disabled black people and addicts who helped pioneer our movement. "We want an immediate end to POLICE BRUTALITY and MURDER of black people." Point 7 of the Black Panther Party Platform and Ten-Point Program, October 1966 The Panthers used to ride around and follow the police. So the cops would pull over some sorry black person, and get ready to rough him up, but then there were the Panthers right behind them. Watching, armed to the teeth, and citing legal statutes. It’s inspirational. "I left home at age 10 in 1961. I hustled on 42nd Street. The early 60s was not a good time for drag queens, effeminate boys or boys that wore makeup like we did. Back then we were beat up by the police, by everybody. I didn’t really come out as a drag queen until the late 60s. When drag queens were arrested, what degradation there was. I remember the first time I got arrested, I wasn’t even in full drag. I was walking down the street and the cops just snatched me. We always felt that the police were the real enemy. We expected nothing better than to be treated like we were animals-and we were. We were stuck in a bullpen like a bunch of freaks. We were disrespected. A lot of us were beaten up and raped. When I ended up going to jail, to do 90 days, they tried to rape me. I very nicely bit the out of a man. I’ve been through it all. In 1969, the night of the Stonewall riot, was a very hot, muggy night. We were in the Stonewall [bar] and the lights came on. We all stopped dancing. The police came in. They had gotten their payoff earlier in the week. But Inspector Pine came in-him and his morals squad-to spend more of the government’s money. We were led out of the bar and they cattled us all up against the police vans. The cops pushed us up against the grates and the fences. People started throwing pennies, nickels, and quarters at the cops. And then the bottles started. And then we finally had the morals squad barricaded in the Stonewall building, because they were actually afraid of us at that time. They didn’t know we were going to react that way. We were not taking any more of this . We had done so much for other movements. It was time. It was street gay people from the Village out front-homeless people who lived in the park in Sheridan Square outside the bar-and then drag queens behind them and everybody behind us. The Stonewall Inn telephone lines were cut and they were left in the dark. One Village Voice reporter was in the bar at that time. And according to the archives of the Village Voice, he was handed a gun from Inspector Pine and told, “We got to fight our way out of there.” This was after one Molotov cocktail was thrown and we were ramming the door of the Stonewall bar with an uprooted parking meter. So they were ready to come out shooting that night. Finally the Tactical Police Force showed up after 45 minutes. A lot of people forget that for 45 minutes we had them trapped in there. All of us were working for so many movements at that time. Everyone was involved with the women’s movement, the peace movement, the civil-rights movement. We were all radicals. I believe that’s what brought it around. You get tired of being just pushed around. STAR came about after a sit-in at Wein stein Hall at New York University in 1970. Later we had a chapter in New York, one in Chicago, one in California and England. STAR was for the street gay people, the street homeless people and anybody that needed help at that time. Marsha and I had always sneaked people into our hotel rooms. Marsha and I decided to get a building. We were trying to get away from the Mafia’s control at the bars. We got a building at 213 East 2nd Street. Marsha and I just decided it was time to help each other and help our other kids. We fed people and clothed people. We kept the building going. We went out and hustled the streets. We paid the rent. We didn’t want the kids out in the streets hustling. They would go out and rip off food. There was always food in the house and everyone had fun. It lasted for two or three years. We would sit there and ask, “Why do we suffer?” As we got more involved into the movements, we said, “Why do we always got to take the brunt of this ?” Later on, when the Young Lords [revolutionary Puerto Rican youth group] came about in New York City, I was already in GLF [Gay Liberation Front]. There was a mass demonstration that started in East Harlem in the fall of 1970. The protest was against police repression and we decided to join the demonstration with our STAR banner. That was one of first times the STAR banner was shown in public, where STAR was present as a group. I ended up meeting some of the Young Lords that day. I became one of them. Any time they needed any help, I was always there for the Young Lords. It was just the respect they gave us as human beings. They gave us a lot of respect. It was a fabulous feeling for me to be myself-being part of the Young Lords as a drag queen-and my organization [sTAR] being part of the Young Lords. I met [black Panther Party leader] Huey Newton at the Peoples’ Revolutionary Convention in Philadelphia in 1971. Huey decided we were part of the revolution-that we were revolutionary people. I was a radical, a revolutionist. I am still a revolutionist. I was proud to make the road and help change laws and what-not. I was very proud of doing that and proud of what I’m still doing, no matter what it takes. Today, we have to fight back against the government. We have to fight them back. They’re cutting back Medicaid, cutting back on medicine for people with AIDS. They want to take away from women on welfare and put them into that little work program. They’re going to cut SSI. Now they’re taking away food stamps. These people who want the cuts-these people are making millions and millions and millions of dollars as CEOs. Why is the government going to take it away from us? What they’re doing is cutting us back. Why can’t we have a break? I’m glad I was in the Stonewall riot. I remember when someone threw a Molotov cocktail, I thought: “My god, the revolution is here. The revolution is finally here!” I always believed that we would have a fight back. I just knew that we would fight back. I just didn’t know it would be that night. I am proud of myself as being there that night. If I had lost that moment, I would have been kind of hurt because that’s when I saw the world change for me and my people. Of course, we still got a long way ahead of us." Sylvia Rivera Anyway, I would like to leave you with these words: "As the [black] Panthers evidenced signs of making significant headway, organizing first in their home community of Oakland and then nationally, the state perceived something more threatening then yet another series of candlelight vigils. It reacted accordingly, targeting Panthers for physical elimination. When Party cadres responded (as promised) by meeting the violence of repression with armed resistance, the bulk of their “principled” white support evaporated. This horrifying retreat rapidly isolated the Party from any possible mediating or buffering from the full force of state terror and left its members nakedly exposed to “surgical termination” by special police units. … t became fashionable to observe that the Panthers were “as bad as the cops” in that they resorted to arms…; they had “brought this on themselves” when they “provoked violence” by refusing the state an uncontested right to maintain the lethal business as usual it had visited upon black America since the inception of the Republic… Such conscientious avoidance of personal sacrifice (i.e., dodging the experience of being on the receiving end of violence, not the inflicting of it) has nothing to do with the lofty ideals and integrity by which American pacifists claim to inform their practice. But it does explain the real nature of such curious phenomena as movement marshal, steadfast refusals to attempt to bring the seat of government to a standstill even when a million people are on hand to accomplish the task, and the consistently convoluted victim-blaming engaged in with regard to domestic groups such as the Black Panther Party. Massive and unremitting violence in the colonies is appalling to right-thinking people but ultimately acceptable when compared to the unthinkable alternative that any degree of real violence might be redirected against “mother country radicals.”" Ward Churchill | Pacifism as Pathology (1986) It's easy to cast judgement when you're not the one dodging bullets. I strongly urge you to really look into the Black Lives Matter movement, why they exist, and what they do. And listen to people involved in the movement. Because they're not calling for murder or revenge. They're calling for justice and protection. Edited July 18, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler Share this post Link to post
Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) "The white community does not protest because they are not a victim of the existing police brutality situation." http://static.ijreview.com/wp-content/uplo...tances_v3.0.png Then please explain this graph to me. And please explain to me how the targeting of white cops and how the hatespeak against whites all across the internet and social dialogue is not racism. Edited July 18, 2016 by LoveOfTheMoonChild Share this post Link to post
Posted July 18, 2016 I grew up in the deep south, when a police officer, black or white, told you to get back up on that curb, or to stop, you got back up on that curb or you stopped. It was a matter of respect for that uniform. I don't believe that there is a white community or a black community. That's being racist in my book, separating people by the color of their skin. There are 18,000 police departments in the US. There were 1000 people shot down by police officers in 2015. They were divided into three categories: 1. Brandishing a weapon. 2. Mentally troubled or suicidal 3. They ran when told by the officer to stop. When an officer pulls me over or stops me for no reason, I still respect that uniform, like I did when I was a little boy. Share this post Link to post
Posted July 18, 2016 I grew up in the deep south, when a police officer, black or white, told you to get back up on that curb, or to stop, you got back up on that curb or you stopped. It was a matter of respect for that uniform. I don't believe that there is a white community or a black community. That's being racist in my book, separating people by the color of their skin. There are 18,000 police departments in the US. There were 1000 people shot down by police officers in 2015. They were divided into three categories: 1. Brandishing a weapon. 2. Mentally troubled or suicidal 3. They ran when told by the officer to stop. When an officer pulls me over or stops me for no reason, I still respect that uniform, like I did when I was a little boy. I fully agree with you on your interpretation. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like the world wants to view it that way... Share this post Link to post
Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) "The white community does not protest because they are not a victim of the existing police brutality situation." http://static.ijreview.com/wp-content/uplo...tances_v3.0.png Then please explain this graph to me. That graphic doesn't really have any context... There's a specific graphic I'm looking for - I can't find it right now, so this one will do. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-na...m=.7cc069e4285f If we have a shooting, we end up assuming that it had to be racial,” former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee ® said Saturday during an interview with Fox News, in which he argued that national concerns about police killings of black men are overblown. “When in fact, as we know … more white people have been shot by police officers this year than minorities,” he said. Huckabee is not, factually, incorrect. In 2015, The Washington Post launched a real-time database to track fatal police shootings, and the project continues this year. As of Sunday, 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black (and 382 were of another or unknown race). But as data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population. According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers. U.S. police officers have shot and killed the exact same number of unarmed white people as they have unarmed black people: 50 each. But because the white population is approximately five times larger than the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer. Police have shot and killed a young black man (ages 18 to 29) — such as Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo. —175 times since January 2015; 24 of them were unarmed. Over that same period, police have shot and killed 172 young white men, 18 of whom were unarmed. Once again, while in raw numbers there were similar totals of white and black victims, blacks were killed at rates disproportionate to their percentage of the U.S. population. Of all of the unarmed people shot and killed by police in 2015, 40 percent of them were black men, even though black men make up just 6 percent of the nation’s population. And, when considering shootings confined within a single race, a black person shot and killed by police is more likely to have been unarmed than a white person. About 13 percent of all black people who have been fatally shot by police since January 2015 were unarmed, compared with 7 percent of all white people. (Bolding mine.) Rate of law enforcement killings, per million population per year, 1999-2011. Source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Health Statistics. 1. A black male born in 2001 has a 32% chance of spending some portion of his life in prison. A white male born the same year has just a 6% chance. [sentencing Project] 2. In major American cities, as many as 80% of young African-American men have criminal records. [Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow] 3. African-Americans who use drugs are more than four times as likely to be incarcerated than whites who use drugs. African Americans constitute 14% of the population and 14% of monthly drug users. But African-Americans respresent 34% of those arrested for a drug offense and 53% of those sentenced to prison for a drug offense. [American Bar Association] 4. In seven states, African Americans constitute 80% or more of all drug offenders sent to prison. [Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow] 5. Black students are three and a half times as likely to be suspended or expelled than their white peers. One in five black boys recieve an out-of-school suspension. Education Secretary Arne Duncan who commissioned the study, said “The undeniable truth is that the everyday education experience for too many students of color violates the principle of equity at the heart of the American promise.” [New York Times] 6. Black youth who are referred to juvenile court are much more likely to be detained, referred to adult court or end up in adult prison than their white counterparts. Blacks represented 28% of juvenile arrests, 30% of referrals to juvenile court, 37% of the detained population, 35% of youth judicially waived to criminal court and 58% of youth admitted to state adult prison. [National Council on Crime And Deliquency] 7. The United States imprisons a larger percentage of its black population than South Africa did at the height of apartheid. [Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow] I would also like to point out that BLM/other black-centered groups have spoken out about and protested several police murders of white folk because yeah, there is a general problem of violence perpetrated by cops. It's just that those most likely to suffer from this are black folk - not white folk. Ex. http://aplus.com/a/zachary-hammond-black-lives-matter http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/20...be_justice_for/ Edited July 18, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler Share this post Link to post
Posted July 18, 2016 I remember the Black Panthers. They were an organized, armed group, whose purpose was to kill police officers. Anyone who holds that organization in high esteem probably is too young to remember what they really did, and just read a book about it somewhere. Last year a former Black Panther leader called for the deaths of police officers in Texas. Last week 3 police officers were murdered in Dallas. Share this post Link to post
Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) I grew up in the deep south, when a police officer, black or white, told you to get back up on that curb, or to stop, you got back up on that curb or you stopped. It was a matter of respect for that uniform. I don't believe that there is a white community or a black community. That's being racist in my book, separating people by the color of their skin. There are 18,000 police departments in the US. There were 1000 people shot down by police officers in 2015. They were divided into three categories: 1. Brandishing a weapon. 2. Mentally troubled or suicidal 3. They ran when told by the officer to stop. When an officer pulls me over or stops me for no reason, I still respect that uniform, like I did when I was a little boy. Gonna get this out of the way first, but isn't it incredibly disturbing that the way the cops deal with mentally ill folk is to just kill them??? They 10000% need better training on how to deal with mental illness and suicide. Speaking on the general attitude here, not specifically towards you - Colorblind racism is very harmful to minorities and helps to support racist attitudes, laws, structures, etc. It makes it easy to say "you're not being targeted on your skin color because I don't see your skin color". There is nothing wrong with recognizing differences in skin color (which generally correlate to differences in culture, btw). In fact, diversity should be celebrated. It's beautiful how we evolved to be so different, to celebrate different things, to have different cultures. There's nothing wrong with recognizing that we have different skin colors - because we do have different skin colors. It is only when prejudice happens on this basis that it is bad. Also, BLM exists because people are being respectful and are still being murdered. Sandra Bland, for instances, was booked in her cell (for speeding!) and then murdered. They didn't even bother taking a mugshot of her before killing her. Eric Garner was put in an illegal chokehold and murdered because he had cigarettes on his person. Etc., etc., etc. There are so many examples caught on camera of police straight up targeting and harassing people based on skin color. It's irresponsible to just say "be polite and you won't be murdered" when 1) cops should not have right to kill people just because they aren't respected like they're royalty or something and 2) polite people are still being murdered. "I think this mythology—that of course we’re all beyond race, of course our police officers aren’t racist, of course our politicians don’t mean any harm to people of color—this idea that we’re beyond all that (so it must be something else) makes it difficult for young people as well as the grown-ups to be able to see clearly and honestly the truth of what’s going on. It makes it difficult to see that the backlash against the Civil Rights Movement manifested itself in the form of mass incarceration, in the form of defunding and devaluing schools serving kids of color and all the rest. We have avoided in recent years talking openly and honestly about race out of fear that it will alienate and polarize. In my own view, it’s our refusal to deal openly and honestly with race that leads us to keep repeating these cycles of exclusion and division, and rebirthing a caste-like system that we claim we’ve left behind." Michelle Alexander on the mythology of colorblindness "In a colorblind society, white people, who are unlikely to experience disadvantages due to race, can effectively ignore racism in American life, justify the current social order, and feel more comfortable with their relatively privileged standing in society (Fryberg, 2010). Most minorities, however, who regularly encounter difficulties due to race, experience colorblind ideologies quite differently. Colorblindness creates a society that denies their negative racial experiences, rejects their cultural heritage, and invalidates their unique perspectives." Monica Williams, Ph.D for Psychology Today, “Colorblind Ideology is a Form of Racism "Since the notion that we should all forsake attachment to race and/or cultural identity and be ‘just humans’ within the framework of white supremacy has usually meant that subordinate groups must surrender their identities, beliefs, values, and assimilate by adopting the values and beliefs of privileged-class whites, rather than promoting racial harmony this thinking has created a fierce cultural protectionism." bell hooks | killing rage: Ending Racism I remember the Black Panthers. They were an organized, armed group, whose purpose was to kill police officers. Simply untrue, as I just posted about. and just read a book about it somewhere. As you can tell by my various sources, I have read about them. And not just from Fox News. Last year a former Black Panther leader called for the deaths of police officers in Texas. Source? Also would love an explanation on why you think one person means a whole movement/race doesn't deserve justice? Last week 3 police officers were murdered in Dallas. Yes, by a man not associated with BLM - or any group, for that matter. And BLM does not condone his actions. Aaaaand the New Black Panthers excused him (told him to get out and get help) when he became violent. All that aside, I'm not sure why you're really bringing it up. It's a tragedy, yes, but I'm not sure how it adds to the conversation at all except to attempt to derail it??? Unless perhaps you wanted to talk about the fact that there is no obvious trend in the shooting of cops rising or that 71% of cops shot were shot by white men? Edited July 18, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler Share this post Link to post
Posted July 20, 2016 The Dallas Police Chief had a good response. "We're Hiring". But the reason it's good is there's some history there. The FBI put out a report in 2006 that White Supremacist groups were trying to infiltrate law enforcement without giving away what they were. They're called Ghost-Skins. I have family that work with the police and bad recruits are both a problem and hard to get rid of once they get in. I don't think that's a unique to police problem. Every place I've ever worked had that one or two guys that were either toxic or a disaster. And they'd never get fired. Problem with this in Law enforcement is the amount of damage they can do. Especially when people that mean to do evil get in the door knowing that they are pretty iron clad once they do. Anywho, here's an article that links the FBI report as well as some cases where they got rid of supremacist cells in police forces. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/5/21/13...-Be-Assimilated Share this post Link to post
Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) That graphic doesn't really have any context... What does it mean when black officers are more likely to shoot blacks than white officers? What does it mean when Asians are the least likely to be shot? Can you reconcile that? https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/department-j...se-deadly-force http://ric-zai-inc.com/Publications/cops-w0753-pub.pdf “We found that the threat perception failure rate for White officers and Black suspects was 6.8 percent. Black officers had a threat perception failure rate of 11.4 percent when the suspect was Black” http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080...3X.2015.1129918 “The study uses data from the New York City Police Department on 291 officers involved in 106 officer-involved shootings adjudicated between 2004 and 2006. Black officers were 3.3 times and officers rapidly accumulating negative marks in their files were 3.1 times more likely to shoot than other officers.” Likewise, the graph you posted doesn’t give full context. Black people are disproportionately responsible for violent crime (see below) and are much more likely to live in poverty (poverty is associated with violent crime) and live in single parent households with little wealth. Etc. Gonna get this out of the way first, but isn't it incredibly disturbing that the way the cops deal with mentally ill folk is to just kill them??? They 10000% need better training on how to deal with mental illness and suicide. They're more likely to be killed because they’re more likely to resist, attack, or act strangely in a threatening matter. They don't "just kill them". Colorblind racism is very harmful to minorities and helps to support racist attitudes, laws, structures, etc. It makes it easy to say "you're not being targeted on your skin color because I don't see your skin color". There are a lot of reasons for “police brutality”, yet SJWs act as if it’s always about racism when it can be anger from someone resisting, nervousness that the person may hurt/kill them, improper training (e.g. too much focus on their own safety), or boneheaded decisions on how to resolve a scenario, etc. Sandra Bland, for instances, was booked in her cell (for speeding!) and then murdered. They didn't even bother taking a mugshot of her before killing her. What? How confident are you? Who was responsible? They said that she wouldn’t have committed suicide, but how can anyone know that? You’ve also said that of Wilson, but last I saw the ballistics and forensics supported his viewpoint, and even Obama’s DoJ said the evidence wasn’t there for prosecuting an unjustified act. There are better examples than these such as Tamir Rice and Walter Scott. Have you seen those? But those aren’t necessarily because of racism either. There are bizarre shootings of white people, too. They didn't even bother taking a mugshot of her before killing her. Eric Garner was put in an illegal chokehold and murdered because he had cigarettes on his person. What's up with the asinine comments and generalizations about cops? The cop most likely didn’t intend to kill Garner. You don’t know as a fact that he intentionally tried to kill him. The reason why NYPD doesn’t allow chokeholds is more of a liability issue because it has the potential to harm/kill someone from positional asphyxia. Even without a chokehold, it’s dangerous to keep someone laying sprawled on the ground, so they’re trained to try to seat them up. It's irresponsible to just say "be polite and you won't be murdered" when 1) cops should not have right to kill people just because they aren't respected like they're royalty or something Asking people to not resist and obey orders that cops have a right to make is not trying to be “respected like they’re royalty”. That’s beyond absurd. They don’t know who you are, and if you’re dangerous (antics place them in a compromising position), and they shouldn’t be expected to just leave if someone doesn’t want to be bothered by a cop. Simply untrue, as I just posted about. There are good parts, but rhetoric matters. A lot of them want to make every shooting a race issue and insinuate that the cops are “murdering” them left and right contrary to the evidence. As you can tell by my various sources, I have read about them. And not just from Fox News. There are biased left-leaning sources as well, and I’m saying this as a person who voted for Obama twice and would have voted for Sanders. Source? Also would love an explanation on why you think one person means a whole movement/race doesn't deserve justice? The rhetoric matters more to me. It’s one thing if it’s true, but a lot of it isn’t. As a consequence, people are taking it out on the cops. the fact that there is no obvious trend in the shooting of cops rising People actively trying to kill cops is uncommon. The trend is there. "This year already looks like it will be the deadliest for U.S. police officers targeted by terrorists since 1973, when 14 people died in attacks by terrorists targeting police. The deadliest day for police in U.S. history was Sept. 11, 2001, when 72 officers died in terrorist attacks that didn’t specifically target police. The nature of the attackers has changed. Between 1970 and 1974, 28 of the 31 deadly attacks on police officers were carried out by black nationalist or black militant groups.5 All of the perpetrators in the 2013 and 2014 attacks, by contrast, were apparently unaffiliated with specific groups; they were motivated by either anti-government sentiment or their view that U.S. policing is racist.” http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/2016-c...ice-since-1973/ https://www.silentmajority.news/wp-content/...238977b60bc.png ~Linked for size~ or that 71% of cops shot were shot by white men? This may have to do with low cop deaths each year (i.e. variable each year) if it’s accurate. There is FBI data suggesting ~30-40% by blacks in previous years, though none of the agencies have complete data. The link doesn’t give the source. Edited July 20, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler Share this post Link to post
Posted July 20, 2016 What does it mean when black officers are more likely to shoot blacks than white officers? What does it mean when Asians are the least likely to be shot? Can you reconcile that? You wanna separate that out any or just talk about a huge conglomerate of people as if their looks/skin color/etc is the same? For example, the Hmong are among the most likely to be stricken with poverty, even if general stats for Chinese-Americans are baseline higher than the specific Hmong ethnicity. But yeah, as I just said above, skin color/shade//features/etc. play a role in racism. But make no mistake that Asian-Ams still face plenty of racism. “The study uses data from the New York City Police Department on 291 officers involved in 106 officer-involved shootings adjudicated between 2004 and 2006. Black officers were 3.3 times and officers rapidly accumulating negative marks in their files were 3.1 times more likely to shoot than other officers.” Because racism and how black cops are treated could have nothing to do with this. I don't feel like checking through your source, but I also have to wonder if these stats are in context are not - are they corrected at all for how many black vs white cops there are? They're more likely to be killed because they’re more likely to resist, attack, or act strangely in a threatening matter. They don't "just kill them". All you have to do is look at any one of the hundreds of names on the 2016 list of murders to see this isn't true. All you have to do is look at all the white terrorists (CO Springs shooter, theater shooter, etc.) who are brought in alive, even though they are quite literally committing acts of terrorism and literally attacking the cops. There are a lot of reasons for “police brutality”, yet SJWs act as if it’s always about racism when it can be anger from someone resisting, nervousness that the person may hurt/kill them, improper training (e.g. too much focus on their own safety), or boneheaded decisions on how to resolve a scenario, etc. lmao What? How confident are you? Who was responsible? They said that she wouldn’t have committed suicide, but how can anyone know that? 100% confident. Sandra Bland was point blank murdered by cops before they even bothered to take her mugshot, and to barely-even-attempt to cover it up, they took a picture of her murdered face and called it a mugshot. There are dozens of analyses out there on her mugshot with incredibly evidence showing she was already dead. There is video from the police station itself, from the arrest itself, showing that Sandra Bland wouldn't have committed suicide. She was very adamant on not dying, on not wanting to die, on making sure her health status was stated so that she would not die. You’ve also said that of Wilson, but last I saw the ballistics and forensics supported his viewpoint, and even Obama’s DoJ said the evidence wasn’t there for prosecuting an unjustified act. There are better examples than these such as Tamir Rice and Walter Scott. Have you seen those? But those aren’t necessarily because of racism either. There are bizarre shootings of white people, too. Are you quoting the same "justice" system that has not convicted any of these murderers? The same police and justice system that has falsified and ignored evidence? And yes, those were racism. I've already covered shooting white people. You even quoted a post about this above... What's up with the asinine comments and generalizations about cops? The cop most likely didn’t intend to kill Garner. You don’t know as a fact that he intentionally tried to kill him. The reason why NYPD doesn’t allow chokeholds is more of a liability issue because it has the potential to harm/kill someone from positional asphyxia. Even without a chokehold, it’s dangerous to keep someone laying sprawled on the ground, so they’re trained to try to seat them up. You don't utilize an illegal chokehold - while shoving all your weight on him as he lies on the ground - on a man crying out that he can't breathe and not intend to kill him. Asking people to not resist and obey orders that cops have a right to make is not trying to be “respected like they’re royalty”. That’s beyond absurd. They don’t know who you are, and if you’re dangerous (antics place them in a compromising position), and they shouldn’t be expected to just leave if someone doesn’t want to be bothered by a cop. If you pay attention to any of these cases, the most disrespect you might find are: 1) Scared teens/kids walking away from cops who have approached them when they are clearly obeying the law, 2) informed citizens citing their rights and being ignored by the cops, 3) having the audacity to exist with dark skin. Besides, that, disrespect still doesn't mean a cop should have the right to kill you. Someone could curse at cops, call them ugly names, scream and shout insults - and none of that means a cop should have a right to kill them. Someone could refuse to pull over when asked to pull over - and that doesn't mean a cop should have a right to kill them. Which is clearly what I was saying in my post. But being black doesn't make you dangerous. Having a gun assigned to you for your job does, however, make you dangerous. And if you can't deal with being in compromising situations sometimes, then you're not in the right job. There are biased left-leaning sources as well, As I already said, I've read multiple sources. I have watched the videos of these atrocities. by blacks It's black people. Not "blacks". Share this post Link to post
Posted July 21, 2016 I fully agree with you on your interpretation. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like the world wants to view it that way... Most of the world does view it that way. Unfortunately there are a lot of outspoken, ignorant, and semi literates with a sense of entitlement who make so much noise because it is the only way they can be the center of attention, that people get the idea that the majority of Americans do not respect police officers, which I find to be untrue. Sadly, another police officer, Capt. Robert Melton of Kansas City, was gunned down in cold blood by a black gunman today, bringing the total to 8 dead police officers at the hands of black shooters, just in the past 2 weeks. I hope someone starts a movement called ALL LIVES MATTER, because anything less than saying ALL LIVES MATTER is is true racism. Share this post Link to post
Posted July 21, 2016 I hope someone starts a movement called ALL LIVES MATTER, because anything less than saying ALL LIVES MATTER is is true racism. I don't believe anyone is insinuating that other lives are worth less. I can't find the source for this analogy now, but it illustrates the point beautifully. If I find it again, I'll link to it and quote the actual text instead of summing it up: Imagine sitting at a dinner table surrounded by delicious food and everyone has been served but you. You say that you deserve your fair share, and someone responds that everyone deserves their fair share. On the surface they're correct, but did it solve your problem of not getting any food? Saying "all lives matter" in response to the black lives movement is technically correct, but it doesn't solve anything. BLM is not insinuating other lives are worth less, but they are asking to be treated fairly to not be racially targeted, as by too many police and a broken justice system. Share this post Link to post
Posted July 25, 2016 I don't believe anyone is insinuating that other lives are worth less. I can't find the source for this analogy now, but it illustrates the point beautifully. If I find it again, I'll link to it and quote the actual text instead of summing it up: Imagine sitting at a dinner table surrounded by delicious food and everyone has been served but you. You say that you deserve your fair share, and someone responds that everyone deserves their fair share. On the surface they're correct, but did it solve your problem of not getting any food? Saying "all lives matter" in response to the black lives movement is technically correct, but it doesn't solve anything. BLM is not insinuating other lives are worth less, but they are asking to be treated fairly to not be racially targeted, as by too many police and a broken justice system. That's the best analogy I have seen used in explaining the Black Lives Matter movement. Kudos. No one is saying "Only black lives matter." What is meant is "Black lives matter too." Share this post Link to post
Posted August 3, 2016 these are not racist some black people are mean black people have dark skin Share this post Link to post
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