Same-Name Eggs ( Descriptions )

[Charu]

I think what Nalyua is talking about how in the end it will not matter in the end. There are only two eggs with the same description. In the end... When people STOP massbreeding their stripes every day of the week and give the cave time to even out the ratios, It will be on a 50/50 ratio.

 

 

This is 'Frill Drama' all over again. Should be renamed to 'Stripe Drama' now though.

 

Really. Everyone here KNOWS that Stripes are overbred... and just because there is a egg with the same description in the cave does NOT mean that it is a Stripe. If you want CB Stripes to come back, why don't you do something about it and pick up eggs that are underpopulated? CB Stripes have not been dropping in the cave for like forever. I have not seen them since around a few months after they came out. Stop acting like they are dropping like fleas and creating drama over it. Geez.

[alci]

Yes and I never contradicted the fact that it is possible now to get another than the dragon you wanted, but in the way of ratios the striped are not harder or easier obtainable than before.

 

also if say 1 stripe per hour drops the chances  are that you miss it because you dunno even do something silly as sratch your nose while it passes.

Then you should refrase your statement:

 

Spitfires having the same name will not affect Stripe ratios - TRUE.

Spitfires having the same name will not make it more difficult to get Stripe - FALSE.

 

And obviously, you're never guaranteed to get an egg, even if you see it (and are able to recognize it's the one you want) - but obviously, your pick-up chance is unaffected by whatever happened, so that's irrelevant to this case.

 

 

My solution? I'm going to hoard Spitfires. Initially it'll be counterproductive to getting Stripes, as I'll be locked for a lot longer than 5 hours, but at least because I'm choosing to pick them up as Spitfires, I won't be feeling so frustrated, and if I do snag a Stripe it'll be a great surprise.

I think you fail to realize how many Stripes there are in total on all cave scrolls. Without knowing the numbers, I think it's safe to say that for this to work, you'd have to hoard Spitfires from today and until sometimes into 2011 to actually affect the ratios.

Edited July 17, 2010 by alci

[Renorei]

I think what Nalyua is talking about how in the end it will not matter in the end. There are only two eggs with the same description. In the end... When people STOP massbreeding their stripes every day of the week and give the cave time to even out the ratios, It will be on a 50/50 ratio.

 

 

This is 'Frill Drama' all over again. Should be renamed to 'Stripe Drama' now though.

 

Really. Everyone here KNOWS that Stripes are overbred... and just because there is a egg with the same description in the cave does NOT mean that it is a Stripe. If you want CB Stripes to come back, why don't you do something about it and pick up eggs that are underpopulated? CB Stripes have not been dropping in the cave for like forever. I have not seen them since around a few months after they came out. Stop acting like they are dropping like fleas and creating drama over it. Geez.

But people will not stop mass breeding their stripes. Some people might, sure, but most people will do as they please. A user who already has all the CB stripes they need, but who needs more 2nd or 3rd gen stripes...do you think that person is going to stop breeding their stripes for the sake of others who need CBs? Probably not. Or the people who use stripes as partners for metallics (since stripes are one of the best partners for metallics these days since stripes are overbred)--do you think they will stop breeding stripes for the sake of those who need CBs? No.

 

We shouldn't have to rely on users "doing the right thing" just to be able to get a specific egg. That's one of the biggest flaws about Dragon Cave--the users' actions have way too big of an effect on the cave's output.

 

Personally, I don't breed my stripes much, nor am I currently seeking any CB stripes. But even if I needed some CB stripes and I stopped breeding all of my stripes full-stop, that wouldn't mean I would get a CB stripe. My actions alone wouldn't be enough to make a difference, and the few people who decided to help out by also not breeding stripes probably wouldn't make much difference either. Even if a lot of people stopped breeding their stripes, enough to make a difference, that would probably just mean more bred stripes produced in stripe/common pairings for people's lineage projects. And even if we just barely managed to increase the number of CB stripes a little by not breeding them, who is to say that the person who snags it is someone who was helping? The people who get them could be people who continue to breed lots of stripes...

 

That's why a lot of users favor a change to DC where our actions wouldn't affect the cave so much. A ratio change which guarantees that a certain percentage of all dragons produced be CB. That way, people would still stand a reasonable chance of getting things like CB stripes, CB metals, etc., and people's bred eggs wouldn't take up all the available slots for eggs of that breed.

[WarMachine]

Bright markings on the new eggs ??? ROFL how off can it get, the actual egg and dragon has no bright markings, the description should read " This has has very dull natural earthy colors ".

Edited July 17, 2010 by WarMachine

[naturalcyber]

I think you fail to realize how many Stripes there are in total on all cave scrolls. Without knowing the numbers, I think it's safe to say that for this to work, you'd have to hoard Spitfires from today and until sometimes into 2011 to actually affect the ratios.

Well, I still plan to be here in 2011, so that doesn't matter. Besides, I'm not going to hoard Spitfires with hopes to change the ratios any. I'm going to hoard them so that when I click on a "brightly colored markings" egg in the cave I know it's something I want, no matter if it's a Stripe or a Spitfire.

 

I'll probably start an even-gen Spitfire lineage too, since I'll end up with so many.

 

 

 

That's why a lot of users favor a change to DC where our actions wouldn't affect the cave so much. A ratio change which guarantees that a certain percentage of all dragons produced be CB. That way, people would still stand a reasonable chance of getting things like CB stripes, CB metals, etc., and people's bred eggs wouldn't take up all the available slots for eggs of that breed.

 

This would be great. I've kind of been hoping the sudden decrease in every kind of breeding that people have been talking about will have the effect of more CBs eventually. I don't know that it has anything to do with that (it's probably only the cause of the really low AP) but it might be a side-effect.

[OMGitsKairi]

The same egg description takes away from the fun of cave-hunting a little for

me. I used to play the "strange markings" lottery a lot... And lose... A lot. x'D

[Charu]

We shouldn't have to rely on users "doing the right thing" just to be able to get a specific egg. That's one of the biggest flaws about Dragon Cave--the users' actions have way too big of an effect on the cave's output.

 

But the thing is there is no such thing as "doing the right thing" here. People play the way they want. What I was saying was that if everyone wants to bring back CB Stripes then they should start a project to do so instead of complaining only to go back and breed their stripes.

 

That's why a lot of users favor a change to DC where our actions wouldn't affect the cave so much. A ratio change which guarantees that a certain percentage of all dragons produced be CB. That way, people would still stand a reasonable chance of getting things like CB stripes, CB metals, etc., and people's bred eggs wouldn't take up all the available slots for eggs of that breed.

 

/startrant

 

I am personally against a ratio change because all it will do is bring more drama. People do not get it. It does not solve people's wants. All it does is give a handle for those people who want to get moar rares. Which is absurd. If you take away users affecting ratios, then it just gets rid of ANY value of eggs that are rare at the moment. Rare eggs will become more common and the "Rare departure board" will disappear. Why? Because everyone will be able to get CB Blacks, CB Stripes, CB Magis, CB WHATEVERS easier. The only things considered rare would be new eggs, but only for a moment.

There would be so much drama over new eggs being produced that it will not even be funny. Lets just say there is a new uncommon egg released. Lets say uncommon eggs have a 25% chance to spawn. Now lets say there are 15 uncommon breeds. Anyone else want to do the math there?

Sure new eggs are not constantly released, but there is already enough drama with getting them. The change to the system will benefit some... But in the end it will bite you in the butt.

 

Changing the system will take away the challenge and PRIDE of catching a CB Gold/Silver/Stripe/Black yourself. Did I mention worth?

Yes soon it will be a pretty common occurance to see "HAVE: CB SILVER... WANT: CB GOLD" in the rare trading threads. One part of DC is about pride, and taking away the current system takes away "pride" from a rare catch.

 

/endrant

 

And I wish I could use a|ot without having the take it's place. Too bad it is so awesomely funny. /randomthought

[TPishek]

/startrant

 

I am personally against a ratio change because all it will do is bring more drama. People do not get it. It does not solve people's wants. All it does is give a handle for those people who want to get moar rares. Which is absurd. If you take away users affecting ratios, then it just gets rid of ANY value of eggs that are rare at the moment. Rare eggs will become more common and the "Rare departure board" will disappear. Why? Because everyone will be able to get CB Blacks, CB Stripes, CB Magis, CB WHATEVERS easier. The only things considered rare would be new eggs, but only for a moment.

There would be so much drama over new eggs being produced that it will not even be funny. Lets just say there is a new uncommon egg released. Lets say uncommon eggs have a 25% chance to spawn. Now lets say there are 15 uncommon breeds. Anyone else want to do the math there?

Sure new eggs are not constantly released, but there is already enough drama with getting them. The change to the system will benefit some... But in the end it will bite you in the butt.

 

Changing the system will take away the challenge and PRIDE of catching a CB Gold/Silver/Stripe/Black yourself. Did I mention worth?

Yes soon it will be a pretty common occurance to see "HAVE: CB SILVER... WANT: CB GOLD" in the rare trading threads. One part of DC is about pride, and taking away the current system takes away "pride" from a rare catch.

 

/endrant

 

And I wish I could use a|ot without having the take it's place. Too bad it is so awesomely funny. /randomthought

I don't WANT more rares. I want COMMONS.

 

I want Pinks, Guardians, Pebbles, Magis, Blacks, Whites, Waters.... Supposedly all COMMON breeds, that you barely even see in the AP let alone the Cave.

 

Yes I want CB ones. For lineage projects. Being CB instead of 57th gen shouldn't make it "rare". They are still "common" eggs. Pinks, Pebbles, etc, even CB ones, aren't even allowed on the Rare Departure Board, nor the Rare Trading Thread.

 

And there is no way that CB Golds and Silvers will ever be "common." THEY are rares. Even if x% start showing up in the Cave, they are still Rares and will always be Rares.

 

I have never even seen a CB Metallic. I've seen CB Blacks maybe twice. A CB Stripe once. I used to see CB Pinks, Waters, etc pretty often, but not anymore. It's not a question of the challenge, it's a question of impossible odds.

 

/slightly offtopic rant

[Vicats]

Bright markings on the new eggs ??? ROFL how off can it get, the actual egg and dragon has no bright markings, the description should read " This has has very dull natural earthy colors ".

... seems pretty bright to me...

[Confused Cat]

Maybe the adult Stripes in the cave are sad because all their eggs were stolen all the time, and now they're hiding them among the Spitfire eggs hoping to keep us from stealing all their babies.

Should we really complain about that?

 

 

(Well, actually I had just started hunting for CB Stripes shortly before the Spitfires were introduced - now guess how "happy" I am about them sharing the same description. But the good thing is, I love the Spitfires anyway, so I'll just catch more "brightly colored markings" eggs whatever they turn out to be. )

[Charu]

I don't WANT more rares. I want COMMONS.

 

I want Pinks, Guardians, Pebbles, Magis, Blacks, Whites, Waters.... Supposedly all COMMON breeds, that you barely even see in the AP let alone the Cave.

 

Yes I want CB ones. For lineage projects. Being CB instead of 57th gen shouldn't make it "rare". They are still "common" eggs. Pinks, Pebbles, etc, even CB ones, aren't even allowed on the Rare Departure Board, nor the Rare Trading Thread.

 

And there is no way that CB Golds and Silvers will ever be "common." THEY are rares. Even if x% start showing up in the Cave, they are still Rares and will always be Rares.

 

I have never even seen a CB Metallic. I've seen CB Blacks maybe twice. A CB Stripe once. I used to see CB Pinks, Waters, etc pretty often, but not anymore. It's not a question of the challenge, it's a question of impossible odds.

 

/slightly offtopic rant

 

All of a sudden people want those breeds? And Waters? I saw like 3 of those drop in the cave like 2 hours ago. They are still common. But what you forget is that there are projects that snatch up common eggs. I like many others was tired of seeing commons. And all of a sudden people want commons? Make up your mind people.

 

You missed my point with CB Golds and Silvers being common. I mean they would be LIKE common because they would OBVIOUSLY drop more than they do now.

 

Yes it is a question of "the challenge". People whine left and right no matter what drops in the cave. People whine no matter how awesome the sprite is. People whine because it interrupts THEM and their WAY. There is no "impossible odds" and there would not be "impossible odds" if people would stop complaining and pick up the underpopulated eggs so the ratios balance out.

 

Infact I feel this thread was started on complaining. I said when Spitfires came out "I can already hear the echos of Frill Drama". Should I go ahead and say "Y Helo Dar Stripe Drama!". Because this is all it is.

[olympe]

Well, I don't like seeing the same description for different breeds, but I can live with it as long as they are of equal rarity (like the strange markings eggs), and I actually like the almost-alts (like the Dorsals) or the cases where only one of the respective eggs actually drops in the cave (like stones and geodes or BBWs and Shallow Waters). Also, I don't mind the dinos getting the same description because I don't hunt them anyway. (They are cute, but for me, this is dragcave, not dinocave.)

 

I'm really happy about eggs sharing similar descriptions like the Neotropical (bright yellow stripes) and the Stripes (brightly colored markings), or the white and silver (which I manage to mix up time and again ) or the Chicken/Pygmy pair (which had me fooled more than once).

 

But I absolutely hate the fact that the uncommon and hard to get Stripes now share their description with a common breed (Spitfires).

[alci]

I am personally against a ratio change because all it will do is bring more drama. People do not get it. It does not solve people's wants. All it does is give a handle for those people who want to get moar rares. Which is absurd. If you take away users affecting ratios, then it just gets rid of ANY value of eggs that are rare at the moment. Rare eggs will become more common and the "Rare departure board" will disappear. Why? Because everyone will be able to get CB Blacks, CB Stripes, CB Magis, CB WHATEVERS easier. The only things considered rare would be new eggs, but only for a moment.

There would be so much drama over new eggs being produced that it will not even be funny. Lets just say there is a new uncommon egg released. Lets say uncommon eggs have a 25% chance to spawn. Now lets say there are 15 uncommon breeds. Anyone else want to do the math there?

Sure new eggs are not constantly released, but there is already enough drama with getting them. The change to the system will benefit some... But in the end it will bite you in the butt.

 

Changing the system will take away the challenge and PRIDE of catching a CB Gold/Silver/Stripe/Black yourself. Did I mention worth?

Yes soon it will be a pretty common occurance to see "HAVE: CB SILVER... WANT: CB GOLD" in the rare trading threads. One part of DC is about pride, and taking away the current system takes away "pride" from a rare catch.

 

/endrant

 

And I wish I could use a|ot without having the take it's place. Too bad it is so awesomely funny. /randomthought

I simply don't see how what you say is true (particularly highlighted park). You could have a fixed rate dropping, which would work so that every kind of dragon has a certain percentage of dropping.

 

To do an example, let's imagine each day (or each week, whatever, I don't know the numbers) 10.000 eggs drop. Then you could have ratios like:

 

Gold: 0.0001

Black: 0.0005

Stripe: 0.001

Split: 0.005

Red: 0.01

Spitfire: 0.05

 

Now this would meen that for each time we drop 10.000 eggs, statistically there would be 1 Gold, 5 Blacks, 10 Stripes, 50 Splits, 100 Reds, 500 Spitfires, etc. Obviously, ratios for all dragons would have to add up to 1.

 

What this would mean is that statistically, you can control (on average) how many of each egg comes out. This doesn't mean that cave will be flooded in CB Golds - 1 in 10.000 is not a lot for sure, but isn't it more reasonable than ~0 in 10.000 as it was most of last year? (In all my time in the cave, I never saw a single Gold egg during 2009!)

 

Notice that overall, this is just another way of normalizing the cave. Currently, we normalize to all eggs including old ones, this one only takes new eggs into account. The good thing about such a scheme would be - apart from the fact that certain ratios would not go down to 0, which I personally think is a bad thing - that when a new egg comes out, it can still be at a set rate, instead of flooding the cave because of offset ratios, so that everybody gets sick of the new release within two weeks - as is currently the case.

 

And the part about taking the pride of catching a CB Gold away is pure nonsense. No matter how ratios are calculated, you can make sure that Golds are rare, which will make it a great satisfaction to catch one. In fact, with current system, no-one ever catches a CB Gold because they don't drop, and how much fun is there in THAT?

[Sir Barton]

Charu, Golds and Silvers will never be like commons. They won't drop more because TJ doesn't want them to drop more. Just recently I saw someone post that TJ feels there are already more Golds and Silvers then he would like so regardless of what happens to the ratios the only thing that is obvious is that metalics will stay the same; rarer then hen's teeth.

 

You say that the Rare departure board will disappear because everyone will be able to get CB Blacks, CB Stripes, CB Magis etc. easier. It won't disappear because there will always be people who can't catch those eggs regardless. People with slow internet connections or out dated computers. People who simply don't have the time or aptitude for hunting the cave. That was proven with the MM release. I didn't have any issue catching those eggs but look at how many people complained that they couldn't get them and didn't even see them in the cave. A CB Black or a CB Magi, just going with your list, shouldn't be hard to get because those are common eggs. People will still have to hunt for them because we have over 60 species, a number that happily keeps growing, and many of them are dimorphic requiring the capture of even more if you want all of the sprites. That's still a lot of dragons to wade through to find the one that you are looking for.

 

Any species designated as common should remain common regardless of the actions of the players. It's unfair to new players to have once common eggs, like blacks and magis, to suddenly be nearly impossible to get. That's my biggest grip with the retirement of the Frills; Lyth's feelings were hurt but did pulling the sprite actually punish the people who hurt her feelings? No. It punished the innocent people who weren't even here at the time and will never get a chance to own a frill. Just because we are inconvenienced by a plethora of common eggs doesn't mean that we should deny future players a chance to obtain them. Common should stay common and if that means separating breeding populations from CB populations then that should be the direction we take. Not sure if that would work but so far nothing else has so might as well give it a shot.

 

/end of off topicness

 

 

Anyway, back on topic, I don't like the shared descriptions because I also could see drama that this will cause. Personally, I wouldn't mind it so much if they were both uncommon species so we have a fighting chance. I can only hope that once the "new dragon smell" wears off of the Spitfires they will become uncommon and level the playing field. Barring that I'll be scratching bright marking eggs off my list of cave huntable and shelf stripe lineage plans. The aggravation isn't worth it.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Sir Barton

[Meridok]

I rather like it - makes it a bit more fun for me, and doubley-delightful when you get the one you were hoping for out of the same description eggs.

 

I can, however, see how it could frustrate some. But I think those who get *really* frustrated and/or rant against it should just chill a little and enjoy it - its a game, not life or death, and you can always freeze the hatchling/abandon the egg or if you really must, kill it.

[Charu]

I can see that no one here understands what I am trying to say. Metallics are ALWAYS overpoppulated because EVERYONE force-breeds them. If you create a fixed ratio, TECHNICALLY they will become more COMMON.

 

Clear enough?

[Errant Mist]

Funny I have been breeding my silvers every week and have yet to get one for 3 months. I don't see this as an issue.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Errant Mist

[Deshera]

I'm defiantly against the shared description a similar but slightly different description. Like how the water dragon is in a puddle of water as opposed to the water walker who is on a puddle of water. One tiny word makes a world of difference bringing less hate to the cave and saving a lot of drama.

 

Over the past week I have picked up and subsequently abandoned over 50 (killing 2 of then and vampirising 1 ) of the new spit fire eggs from the cave in my futile effort to obtain a striped egg. At leas before I would spend a few hours hunting and miss one but now I feel a growing animosity towrds this new dragon. As it is I only hunt strange marking eggs from the AP.

 

At this rate if I did manage to snagg a CB stripe I wouldn't even trade it for a CB gold.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Deshera

[Renorei]

But the thing is there is no such thing as "doing the right thing" here. People play the way they want. What I was saying was that if everyone wants to bring back CB Stripes then they should start a project to do so instead of complaining only to go back and breed their stripes.

 

Hence why I put "doing the right thing" in quotation marks. The point is, I shouldn't have to rely on other users to do a specific action, or refrain from doing a specific action, in order to obtain the eggs I need. We shouldn't have to start a project where people don't breed stripes, because other people breeding stripes shouldn't mean that none (or, practically none) will drop in the cave.

 

And my point from earlier stands--even if a big group of forum-users started a project where people didn't breed stripes but bred the spitfires instead, the effect it would have would be little more than a drop in the bucket. And even if they do manage to have a slight effect, there is no guarantee that any of the people who have been engaging in these efforts will be the beneficiaries of their work--the people who get the extra CB stripes produced could easily be those people who overbreed the stripes they already have.

 

Starting some kind of project to try and bring back CB stripes is ultimately futile because of all the people who won't stop breeding them. Rather than more CB stripes appearing, there will probably just be more bred stripe eggs produced by the folks who have no interest in refraining from breeding their stripes.

 

I can see that no one here understands what I am trying to say. Metallics are ALWAYS overpoppulated because EVERYONE force-breeds them. If you create a fixed ratio, TECHNICALLY they will become more COMMON.

 

Clear enough?

 

No, it isn't "clear enough"--because you are wrong.

 

Let's say the ratios allow for 50 new silver eggs to be produced each month*. The overwhelming majority of those eggs will be bred eggs, because people are always breeding them. We are not suggesting that the ratios be changed to allow more silver eggs to be produced each month than 50. We are suggesting that the ratios be tweaked, to guarantee that a certain percentage of them will be CB. For example, the ratios could mandate that at least 30% of all silver eggs produced would be CBs. So, in a month, 15 silver eggs could appear in the cave (rather than closer to 0, under the current system), while 35 slots could be taken by bred eggs. This would not make silvers any more common. It would just make the CB Silvers (and golds) somewhat obtainable, rather than completely unobtainable.

 

 

*Just a ballpark estimate--I know the ratios don't just say things like "Okay, 50 silvers this month"--it's a lot more complicated than that.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Renorei

[_Z_]

Spitfires and Stripes are now both bright marking eggs.

Horses/Ochredrakes/Skywings are all strange markings eggs, as were frills before they were discontinued.

Some think this is what helped drive the frills to extinction--it's easier to dislike something when you take it thinking it's something else, even if what you do get isn't bad.

 

Thoughts?

I believe this is the topic.

[Eddiexelite]

I agree with the "it's a surprise" sort of thing.

I've grabbed eggs at the risk of getting one I don't like, but in the end I keep whatever I pick up. I don't find anything bad with it :3

[Talisraye]

I think it's as annoying as hell.

 

[alci]

I can see that no one here understands what I am trying to say. Metallics are ALWAYS overpoppulated because EVERYONE force-breeds them. If you create a fixed ratio, TECHNICALLY they will become more COMMON.

 

Clear enough?

Crystal clear. I guess that discussion amounts to whether you think there are enough metallics dropping in the cave (which I don't think). I reckon you disagree, so let's end it there and stick to topic as adviced.

[olympe]

I am personally against a ratio change because all it will do is bring more drama. People do not get it. It does not solve people's wants. All it does is give a handle for those people who want to get moar rares. Which is absurd. If you take away users affecting ratios, then it just gets rid of ANY value of eggs that are rare at the moment. Rare eggs will become more common and the "Rare departure board" will disappear. Why? Because everyone will be able to get CB Blacks, CB Stripes, CB Magis, CB WHATEVERS easier. The only things considered rare would be new eggs, but only for a moment.

 

Well, first of all, if the tie-up between bred eggs and CB eggs is to be changed, it might change the ratios. But only of the bred eggs. The ratios of CBs will still be "normal". Normal in this case meaning "overall ratio normal", not "after every (over)bred egg is taken into account super-hyper-über-rare". True, blacks, whites, reds, vines and a few others are rare as CBs, and people are happy if they can get them, even if it is from the Rare Eggs Departure Announcement Board. But you know what? I might be the only one who doesn't look there any more, but I highly doubt it. After a dozen or so times when I tried to get an egg and never ever did, I decided to just go with AP or cave hunting.

 

Besides, there won't be the need for the REDAB if people have a reasonable chance of acquiring the dragons themselves.

 

Also, bred metallics/stripes/splits/whatever will become more common (unless the breeding ratios, but the CBs will still be sought-after for lineage projects or by people who want CBs on their scroll. And for people who like challenges, it will be a challenge to get all of their dragons as CBs.

 

 

Also, a tie-in between bred and CB eggs could still be maintained, as long as a certain percentage (like 25 %) of all eggs created are CB. This way, people would still stand a reasonable chance with their breeding projects, and there will still be CBs in the cave for those who don't have them yet. (CB black, anyone?)

[silvara7]

It irritates the heck out of me, especially when I'm looking for a specific breed... Like stripes. Meh!