05/22/10 - State of the Cave

[Cheshire]

New breeds? 8D *Scampers to check list*

 

That would be..Well, awesome.

[Sir Barton]

Really like the new progeny tool and it works great.

 

Looking forward to new dragons but I hope they come a little later then sooner since I'm locked up with six hatchies. ....isn't that just my luck.

[Lunaeluu]

I have to say I love the splitting the cave idea. It's more realistic, why would desert dragons be with water dragons in the first place It'll also encourage more different sorts of dragons to be created.

 

 

Some dragons I think though should be universal, like metallics (not trio though, they'd suit certain environments too well )

[smokeytripod]

why not enable magi dragons to be used for trading eggs?... i read about that somewhere before and id like to see that if they make more new dragons ;D... so those who dont have certain types dont have to wait for em to be traded at teh cave just to be yoinked by someone else

[Renorei]

I don't want to see the cave split up. Then there would be multiple potential places a metallic could show up. I'd hate to miss a CB metallic because I'm hunting at "The Lake" and the CB Metallic appeared on "The Mountain." Or something.

 

I also don't particularly want to see old breeds get retired, or retired from cave drops. Hell, I don't even want them reduced from cave drops. I much prefer the older breeds. I would take a CB pink, white, red, black, magi, purple, etc., over a CB waterwalker, neotropical, balloon, deep sea, any day! I don't think it's the "old" breeds that are undesirable. I think it's the moderately old new breeds. The breeds that don't have the classic simplicity of the oldest breeds, but nevertheless most people have caught their fill of them. I'll always catch more CBs of the oldest commons--can't have too many of them, IMO. But once I've caught a few of the newer breeds, I'm done. I don't use them for breeding so I mostly just grab a few for the sake of completing my scroll, and then they sit there and collect dust. So please, don't mess with the cave dropping ratios of the oldest breeds. Those are my absolute favorites.

 

The idea I like best is an idea that originated over in the suggestions forum. Basically, the idea is that dragons would be available in cycles, or "seasons" if you will. Certain dragons would always be available in the cave--such as metallics, trios, dragons with BSAs, the core dragons, etc. But the rest would be unavailable (or at least, very rare) in the cave when they weren't in season. You could still get them by breeding, though. I think this is the best idea because it still keeps all the breeds available without making the core dragons harder to get as CBs. Plus, the undesired dragons which normally clog the cave for a long time would become more desired when their season arrives, because many newer players wouldn't have been able to get them as CBs yet, so they'd get snatched up quickly.

 

Another possible consideration--have fewer releases, or have fewer dragons per release. Maybe an unpopular idea, but I don't feel that we need so many new dragons in such a short time frame.

 

 

Regarding cave block--

*If an egg sits in the cave for too long, it should go to the AP.

*If an egg sits in the AP for too long, it should go the wilderness.

*Give us more slots, or at least get rid of hatchling-lock (i.e., make hatchling limits and egg limits separate).

 

If these features were implemented, I think it would make the game a lot more enjoyable. People wouldn't have to waste precious few slots grabbing unwanted eggs just to get the cave moving, and the AP wouldn't block the cave as much. And, if we had more slots available and/or didn't have to worry about hatchling lock, I think people would be a lot more liable to pick up less desired eggs. Right now, I can only grab 4 eggs, so I am very picky about what I take the time to raise. I don't want to devote time, and a slot, to something that I don't really want. If I had more slots I'd raise more things that I don't want as badly.

Edited May 24, 2010 by Renorei

[Trinketguu]

I could live with the idea that the dragons dragons would be available in cycles, or "seasons" that would be a good option in my mind. That way I know which ones are available at that time frame and focus on getting the ones I am in need of. It may even make getting them more easy in the long run. Sure we may have to wait for the time that the dragon we really want will come but thats not such a bad thing in my book.

 

I have just 1 eggy left to hatch tomorrow I will do my best to stay away from the cave tell the news come I so want to have space for 4 brand new eggs:)

 

thank you Tj

[Ollie]

Renorei, what i have read that sounds best idea i have heard. Having them in cycles, able to breed and rarely get them, but at some other time they are very common.

 

I just dislike idea of 3 dimnesion cave so much.

[WithLight]

Looking forward to the new release!

 

But staying...unlocked...is...so hard...

[smokeytripod]

the cycle thing would be cool... at cetain cycles make the rares commons and the commons rare so that eventually everyone gets the eggs they desperatly want... exept legendary trios keep them as rare all the time so their harder to get

[Dragonbox]

Sorry the quotes went wonky.

 

Nope... don't like that idea. Many people including me use CBs for their projects. And I know I'm not the only player who dislikes messy long lineaged and possibility inbred eggs.

 

Not only that you're going to get the new players upset that they can't collect CBs of certain common dragons.

What about reducing the number of CBs for older breeds, but not retiring them altogether? Make them about as common at the Cave Entrance as the Uncommons, so that the people who want them can still get them, but they aren't clogging up everything. Right now whenever I go to the cave entrance there's almost always a ton of older-type eggs sitting there for minutes at a time and 150 people or so refreshing constantly to get the eggs they actually want. If these CBs were actually wanted people would be snagging them right and left, but they aren't.

 

Also, I disagree with your contention that long lineaged dragons are worth less than short-lineaged dragons. I actually like long lineaged dragons, they're much more interesting to look at then short lineaged dragons (which I think are rather boring). I'm much more likely to dump an egg I picked up off the AP if it has a short lineage.

Making certain commons uncommon is a nice idea. It will give more flare and skill to the game.

 

I never said that long lineaged eggs are worthless. There are long lineaged eggs done with care and some that are just slopped together for the sake of getting an egg. And I never said those were worthless either.

 

 

I dislike golds and prefer silvers, stripes, and water horses. Does that make the golds worthless? No.

 

[ayobelle]

Renorei I agree with everything you said. I really love those ideas. I really dislike the idea of a 3 dimensional cave. I REALLY don't want to have to look in three different parts of the cave for CB Metallics for example. The rares are hard enough to get as is. Anyways just my two cents.

[Ardath Rekha]

My random blah-blah-blah on the ideas being floated around:

 

The problem with "let's make older CB commons less common!" is that that's already happening in the cave, and it's already a point of contention among users. Just try to catch a CB black and you'll see what I mean, but the bred blacks take over the AP at least once a day. Personally I think that there should be a set ratio of CB-to-bred to ensure that overbreeding of a certain type of dragon doesn't wipe out its appearance in cave drops (as is currently happening with black eggs and metallics).

 

I like the idea of cycling rarities, myself... I don't think that any of the breeds should stop dropping completely at any point, but if we had cycles wherein it was easy to catch a particular dragon, but then a few months later it was more difficult, that would be immensely helpful. For one thing, it would mean that right around the time people were likely to complain about being "sick of" a particular egg, it would start being hard to find. And it would let people plan a bit better.

 

I think giving more of the ultra-commons BSAs -- desirable BSAs -- would help, too. I now have eighteen adult pinks on my scroll, including several inbreds, because they can influence genders (yes, nine of each gender) and I'm working towards having eighteen reds. I'm not really a fan of Earthquake so it hasn't impacted my collecting greens, but BSAs are very nice incentives for collecting eggs I'd otherwise have had enough of. Given how many frozens I still need to collect, I'd love a BSA that gives users extra freeze slots, and/or I'd love a BSA that actually does the opposite of the red BSA, so that I could slow down the hatching process when I'm waiting for a freeze slot to open up. --No, that doesn't have anything to do with making sure people can get every egg ever released, except that it does give them a reason to "make do" with ultra-commons while they hunt for harder-to-get breeds.

 

For me, every new dragon released adds a little less than two weeks to my completed-scroll ETA... for other people it's longer or shorter depending on how they count things as "complete." I'm going for sets of five CB and bred, each with an adult male, adult female, frozen male, frozen female, and frozen ungendered -- that's ten dragons and six freeze slots per new breed. As of this moment I have 85 current dragons left to collect, not counting neglecteds and breeds that aren't currently available. That's 17 weeks of collecting left for me if nothing new was released in the cave (since I'm almost done collecting adults and mostly need frozens), so my big hope is just that these releases aren't so large and frequent that each one sets me back further. So I'd be a BIG fan of additional scroll slots and/or a larger freezing limit.

 

Also, I definitely need to join the chorus of objections to the whole thing of splitting up the cave into multiple sections, more than exist now, if that means that it's actually harder to predict where a rare is going to appear and be there for it. I've still never caught a CB gold, but at least right now I know where I need to be to lie in wait for one. It's fruitless enough so far that I think I'd want to jump through my screen and beat people up if I found out that while I was waiting "by the lake" for one to appear, three appeared "on the mountain" and got snapped up by other users. We all get testy enough as it is about someone else clicking faster than us; let's not amplify that frustration with more variables.

[Emberclaw]

o_o

[RheaZen]

tl;drs but I did see someone mention cycles so *thumbs up*

 

I personally love the cycles idea.

[Merlot]

I also dislike the 3D idea But I do like the cycles idea.

I finally got my nebula but still trying to get a summoned Maybe they could be better ratioed. I have tried each time its allowed with no success.

 

Gotta get unlocked soon so I can get New eggys (sigh)

Edited May 24, 2010 by Merlot

[frozenwombat]

Very excited to see what's new.

 

As a new player faced with collecting tons of eggs (because they be so purdy!) I like the idea of perhaps unlinking hatchling/eggs. I also dislike the idea of retiring sprites- some of us still want them. But I have no issue with making "older" commons less common.

 

I'm a player who really has no difficulty with something being DIFFICULT to get, so long as it's obtainable. I count sitting and stalking the AP/Cave as "obtainable"- mind numbing and maddening, yes, but wholly obtainable.

 

[earthgirl]

There won't be any retired sprites. I know this for sure.

[Ryukotsusei]

I'm glad to hear that, but I'm greatly anticipating what ideas there are. Can't wait to find out.

[00n0b0dy]

I'd like to mention that I like cycling rarities, a sort of migration thing if we will.

 

I do not like "3D" cave, for aforementioned reasons, as well as it's been discussed before and I believe the final word was it would cause ridiculous lag. Course I'm not sure if that was TJ word or not, as it was a long time ago, but lag is never good on this game.

 

I would also like to mention that old commons are not what is blocking the cave. Not anymore. There used to be a couple (pinks, especially) that used to sit there, but these days it is not "old" commons that block it, it's new ones. Not new, new ones, but ones that might seem old to somebody who hasn't been around too long. Things from the common drops of last summer and fall. I mostly see deepsea, water walker, and balloon. Once in a while you might get storm or pebble, but those don't happen often at all from my personal hunting experience. But our old favorites, vines, blacks, and even to an extent whites and reds- are very difficult to find at times, and are certainly not unwanted. While the old breeds with their long and sometimes inbred lines do frequently block the AP, they are rarely, if ever the cause of caveblock. Caveblock has been mostly the fault of more recent common drops, MM excluded, as those are still impossible to catch.

 

More BSAs would be a good option. That really worked wonders on pinks, for example. But the pebbles seem to demonstrate the problem of implementing a BSA which doesn't have a high success rate on a common, or rather, has a high damage for failure. The only use I've heard for those on these forums is to clear out mounds of AP eggs, if you're feeling daring.

 

If it can be made to fit on a single page without scrolling, I would love more cave drop egg slots at once. But if it'll make the page long, I don't want it. That's a major advantage over the AP for me- I don't have to scroll or zoom out in order to see all the eggs.

 

[Syphoneira]

Great!

 

My preferred solution to the increasing number of breeds is to increase the number of slots each player has for adoption by two. This would enable everyone, even new players, to keep up with all the new breeds better, and also keep the AP from becoming too full or unmanageable.

 

Since special dragons are all scroll-limited anyway, I don't think it would create a hoarding problem.

 

 

... ahem...

 

Edit: *jumps up and down frantically guesturing at good points overhead, in 00n0b0dy's post*

 

Re-edit to mention that I hate the idea of adding more caves or 'cycling' dragons, which would continually foul people and lineages up, not to mention confusing the heck out of on-forum people, never mind those off-forum.

 

I can't figure out why we can't just solve the actual problem by simply not having too many of certain dragons for the environment (us) to support, since that's the actual gosh-darned problem, dagnabbit!?

 

All these complex work-arounds I've seen suggested so far may sound cool in some respects but seem likely to cause more problems than they solve...

Edited May 24, 2010 by Syphoneira

[Drakrono]

I can't figure out why we can't just solve the actual problem by simply not having too many of certain dragons for the environment (us) to support, since that's the actual gosh-darned problem, dagnabbit!?

I don't understand this "solution." Could you elaborate please? Do you mean you want the cave drops to be decreased in number?

[Syphoneira]

Regarding the previous detailed comments and suggestions made in relation to the hunting problem:

 

it seems to me that we finally have enough variety in commons that we don't need to have the ultra-commons blocking the Drops anymore 'for a challenge'.

 

Even if it was too complicated to try to match individual Dropped sprite proportions to player demand levels,

 

if all commons were dropped on an equal basis,

 

with graduated extra quantities of the last 2 or 3 Releases and of a few sprites desirable for BSA's, etc.,

 

(excluding the Midwinter Madness Release, since everyone who's been here more than a month or so has had ample opportunity to obtain the dragons from this, and those present at the time have typically loaded up on all they want of these)

 

everything would be available at all seasons and times to those who wanted them and were willing/able to hunt,

 

without everyone/everything bogging down in mass quantities of ultra-commons people typically already have enough of, but which obscure the commons (and others) more typically wanted in the currently often slow-moving crowd.

 

With faster-moving drops having a variety of desirable eggs (as greatly reduced numbers of then-ex-ultra-commons could then be filling an actual demand rather than blocking traffic) it would then be possible to increase the number of eggs Dropped.

 

Obviously, demand for a variety of desirable (because at appropriate levels) eggs cannot be exceeded by even unlimited Drops whenever the Cave isn't blocked by the AP, as the eggs simply would not be taken, and - importantly - no more would be produced by the Cave at that point, a situation entirely different than that of the AP, supplied only by the abandons (and trades and gifts passing though) of the players.

 

This seems to me to be the most logical and straightforward - and actual - solution, one which adversely affects no-one, so far as I can tell, and should cause no disruption/alteration (or additional server strain) beyond that of creating a freely-flowing Cave Drop situation where eggs actually wanted by someone or other can be found at all times, and where all eggs can be sought and eventually found without endless refreshing on the same few sorts of eggs most people really don't want any more of...

 

Bringing forward a previous post which I hope explains my position.

 

Edit: a glance at the post below mine (which I'm loudly applauding) illustrates my point admirably well.

 

I also have been havng pre-BSA Pink flash-backs regarding the commons mentioned - and it's the overabundance of such as these that make hunting difficult, not the variety of dragons most of us adore and wish to see more of.

Edited May 24, 2010 by Syphoneira

[RMMC]

 

I would also like to mention that old commons are not what is blocking the cave. Not anymore. There used to be a couple (pinks, especially) that used to sit there, but these days it is not "old" commons that block it, it's new ones. Not new, new ones, but ones that might seem old to somebody who hasn't been around too long. Things from the common drops of last summer and fall. I mostly see deepsea, water walker, and balloon. Once in a while you might get storm or pebble, but those don't happen often at all from my personal hunting experience. But our old favorites, vines, blacks, and even to an extent whites and reds- are very difficult to find at times, and are certainly not unwanted. While the old breeds with their long and sometimes inbred lines do frequently block the AP, they are rarely, if ever the cause of caveblock. Caveblock has been mostly the fault of more recent common drops, MM excluded, as those are still impossible to catch.

 

More BSAs would be a good option. That really worked wonders on pinks, for example. But the pebbles seem to demonstrate the problem of implementing a BSA which doesn't have a high success rate on a common, or rather, has a high damage for failure. The only use I've heard for those on these forums is to clear out mounds of AP eggs, if you're feeling daring.

Yes. I can't tell you how often I've seen the cave blocked by water horses, balloons, or water walkers in the past...oh 6-7 months or so. And as soon as one finally gets taken the cave shoves out another one to replace it. O.o Space them out a little, maybe? Its very discouraging the you hit a CB wall like: 'it's blue and slimy.' It's harkening back to the 'it's bright. And pink,' issue we had last year before the Pink BSA. Commons definitely need a little something to help prevent cave & AP blockage.

 

More BSAs... with less of a less catastrophic consequence, may be a good option. Or the bred to CB ratio. Although I can see that making things out of whack for the 'less popular to breed' breeds...which are our current Cave blocking issues. The ratio would only be beneficial for the over-bred commons like blacks, whites and vines.

 

Please, what ever happens, do not make the older eggs any harder to find than the Cave already has. New players (and new lineage projects) pop up all the time; lets not make playing any harder more difficult than it should be.

 

 

And I am definite against any more dragon retirements. (*pats her little Frills*) That way will just make completionists go insane and them as well as others just walk away.

 

 

 

 

On the other news...Yay! New eggs! *happy dance* And the spiffy progeny tool! Yay!

[Lunaeluu]

Hmmmm I'm not sure I'm fond of the cycles idea (though I may change my mind in time )

 

I don't like the idea of waiting around for certain dragons to become more common again, I like my freedom of choice. Everybody has their favourites and I don't like the idea that you can't collect them just because it's the wrong time of the year.

 

Plus isn't it just going to make it even harder on newbies to get all the eggs. It's also going to make lineages take even longer to build up if you are going to have a very low breeding success rate for a lot of the year.

[wondersueak]

ooh thanks tj! I hope one of my completed breeds gets through. I'd really like that whirlpool....