The Allure of Neglected Dragons

[Kith]

I can't get to the site either (stopped working last night), but my hatchlings are still gaining views so I know it's working for some out there.

[purplehaze]

It just went down for me, too, although I was able to use it less than an hour ago. I hope it will soon be back as I really rely on it.

[Gusearth]

It's up and running fine for me.

[purplehaze]

It's back for me, too.

[Qor]

No issues at all today.

[Cassie_Fenix]

It's down for me. I can't even get into the site.

[Ruby Eyes]

This thing: http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/coup-detat.info/NDER/ says it's up, but I cannot get to it either.

[Lady Artemis]

I'm able to get onto it just fine

[Cassie_Fenix]

Finally managed to get on a few hours ago.

[Jedi40]

Bit laggy the last few days but that could be from the cold weather we have been getting in the US.

[Andalusian]

I've had a problem with Allure recently: Every time I go onto the main page it takes a long time to load, then when it does I go to add my eggs/hatchlings and it takes so long to load I just give up and exit it out. This has been happening in the last maybe 3 weeks, on and off I believe, because mostly it won't load and occasionally it does. I don't know if anybody else has this problem? I've posted it just in case it's more than just me.

it is my favorite click site and I feel bad that I can't really use it as much as I'd love to.

 

Thanks

 

EDIT: I just read a few posts above me, looks like it's not just me but it doesn't look like it's been happening ongoing as long as me. :/

Edited February 21, 2015 by Andalusian

[rejierei]

This is a really great site! Helped me raise my dragons to adulthood!

[pinkgothic]

Something I've noticed recently (but not just with NDER) is that there seems to be a disconnect between the time reported on the view page and the add your dragons list. For example, right now, my egg JAF8b reports 4d 1h on its view page, but NDER is convinced that it's at 4d 0h and therefore an ER.

 

(EATW and draghatch also have this problem.)

 

Was there another change to the way the API reports times, perhaps?

[Ruby Eyes]

It's been like that for ages - you noticed it just now? Only Silvi's doesn't seem to have that offset.

[pinkgothic]

It's been like that for ages - you noticed it just now? Only Silvi's doesn't seem to have that offset.

I am extremely sure it's not been that way for ages. There was a change in the API maybe... three years ago or so? I find it difficult to gauge any time over a year, and it was definitely longer ago than that.

 

After that, basically every hatchery had the offset. Then a lot of hatcheries corrected it, to prevent accidentally ERing things. Now it's back.

 

Of course, if with 'for ages' you mean 'for a couple of months', that could easily be the case! I rarely have eggs at 4d 1h (or, well, 4d and half an hour, which is what's presumably causing the issue), since I normally tend to incubate after the 5d mark.

Edited February 23, 2015 by pinkgothic

[love_HP]

In the hatchling ER there has been a "dragon" with no pic, and the link ishttp://dragcave.net/view. It's in there for many days.

[Ruby Eyes]

3 years, in an online game especially, *is* ages And in all that time since the API change, I haven't seen a single hatchery that has corrected this offset - except Silvi's. As a rather impatient player, I keep checking on my eggs rather often, so I notice this offset rather often, too.

 

 

That ghost ER hatchling has been there ever since I started using AoND, too. It actually vanished for a few days during this year's Valentine season, but it returned quickly. Now it seems gone again ... (I suspect an input bug that somehow adds an entry without a code)

[pinkgothic]

3 years, in an online game especially, *is* ages And in all that time since the API change, I haven't seen a single hatchery that has corrected this offset - except Silvi's. As a rather impatient player, I keep checking on my eggs rather often, so I notice this offset rather often, too.

Yes, three years is ages. I wasn't claiming otherwise.

 

What I was claiming was that it was fixed by the major fansites. Which I've apparently hallucinated - or, more likely, I've managed to have absolutely terrific timing and always seen hatchery=view time because I've always just been narrowly over the 'x hours + half an hour left' mark when comparing times (as opposed to the 'x hours + less than half an hour left', which is where the discrepancy comes in).

 

Really bizarre, though, that this would be consistently true for over two years. But I guess that's what happened.

 

Guess I'll just have to be careful and never incubate anything over the 5d mark, so the dangerous half hour (where it registers as an ER but can't hatch yet) is side-stepped.

 

Anyway, thanks

Edited February 24, 2015 by pinkgothic

[bbik]

Something I've noticed recently (but not just with NDER) is that there seems to be a disconnect between the time reported on the view page and the add your dragons list. For example, right now, my egg JAF8b reports 4d 1h on its view page, but NDER is convinced that it's at 4d 0h and therefore an ER.

 

(EATW and draghatch also have this problem.)

 

Was there another change to the way the API reports times, perhaps?

As was mentioned, it's an API/View page disconnect issue. Whenever long ago, TJ changed the view pages to always round up -- instead of dragons with 0 hours left for half an hour, they show 1 hour left until they die, and instead of being at 7 days for only half an hour, they show 7 days for a full hour. The API, however, never received that change. It still rounds normally -- 0.5 hours left is treated as 1 hour left while 0.49 hours left is treated as 0 hours left, and 6 days 23.5 hours left is reported by the API as 7 days while 6 days 23.49 hours left is reported as 6 days 23 hours. As far as I know, no hatchery has changed anything in relation to this -- they can't, when there is no data more precise than "hours".

 

The only reason Silvi's seems to be correct is because it's actually on an hour delay from the other fansites. From the start, Silvi's only accepted ERs at 3 days 23 hours. AoND accepts ERs at 4 days. With the disconnect from the view page now, that means Silvi's actually accepts ERs at 3 days 23.5 hours (the view page shows 4 days, but it has been at 4 days for half an hour by then), while AoND accepts ERs at 4 days 0.5 hours (the view page shows 4 days 1 hour for up to half an hour longer). This is technically earlier than the dragon can progress to the next stage, but it is also no different than it has ever been. It's just more obvious since TJ's view page change.

 

I'll agree that it can be irritating, but it's also incredibly useful sometimes. If you grab an ER from the AP, you can start it collecting views that much earlier, and still not have any risk of sickness by the time it has enough views to hatch. Or for ND experiments, it chops the potential timing window in half, because you can figure out which half of the hour it's in based on how the fansite and view page times compare. Consistency is nice, but given how minor this issue is, I'd much rather fight for other API changes instead! Breed or Biome info, description indicators or other optimizations, anyone?

 

In the hatchling ER there has been a "dragon" with no pic, and the link ishttp://dragcave.net/view. It's in there for many days.

Yeah, somewhere there's apparently a bug that lets that blank one in. I haven't been able to track down when or how (mostly due to lack of time), but it's not actually hurting anything else, so I haven't been too worried about it, either.

 

 

And for those of you having loading issues, I am not aware of any reason for it to be worse recently (aside from perhaps supporting extra users during holiday events). I am, however, in the middle of rewriting everything, so hopefully that'll help speed it up regardless! I'll have more information about that soon, once I get a few basic things set up.

[pinkgothic]

As was mentioned, it's an API/View page disconnect issue.  Whenever long ago, TJ changed the view pages to always round up -- instead of dragons with 0 hours left for half an hour, they show 1 hour left until they die, and instead of being at 7 days for only half an hour, they show 7 days for a full hour.  The API, however, never received that change.  It still rounds normally -- 0.5 hours left is treated as 1 hour left while 0.49 hours left is treated as 0 hours left, and 6 days 23.5 hours left is reported by the API as 7 days while 6 days 23.49 hours left is reported as 6 days 23 hours.  As far as I know, no hatchery has changed anything in relation to this -- they can't, when there is no data more precise than "hours".

 

The only reason Silvi's seems to be correct is because it's actually on an hour delay from the other fansites.  From the start, Silvi's only accepted ERs at 3 days 23 hours.  AoND accepts ERs at 4 days.  With the disconnect from the view page now, that means Silvi's actually accepts ERs at 3 days 23.5 hours (the view page shows 4 days, but it has been at 4 days for half an hour by then), while AoND accepts ERs at 4 days 0.5 hours (the view page shows 4 days 1 hour for up to half an hour longer).  This is technically earlier than the dragon can progress to the next stage, but it is also no different than it has ever been.  It's just more obvious since TJ's view page change.

 

I'll agree that it can be irritating, but it's also incredibly useful sometimes.  If you grab an ER from the AP, you can start it collecting views that much earlier, and still not have any risk of sickness by the time it has enough views to hatch.  Or for ND experiments, it chops the potential timing window in half, because you can figure out which half of the hour it's in based on how the fansite and view page times compare.  Consistency is nice, but given how minor this issue is, I'd much rather fight for other API changes instead!  Breed or Biome info, description indicators or other optimizations, anyone?

Yeah, I understand the technical background to this (except for the fact that the API reports only hours - not having API access yet, I wasn't aware that was the granularity, I thought it was simply reporting an incorrect timestamp).

 

It's a fairly big issue for me if (and only if) I incubate above 5d, since I work on the very edge of what is healthy for eggs and hatchlings, so even just a half hour unnecessary ERing will make my dragons astonishingly sick, but since I don't usually incubate above 5d, but almost exclusively under or at the 5d mark, it barely had an impact on me. I got into the habit of incubating above 5d this Valentine, though (during Valentines this wasn't a problem, I only let the eggs and hatchlings get about half the attention they usually get), and so it became very obvious to me after Valentines was over.

 

My only point of confusion was that I was absolutely certain there had been changes in the fansites, as mentioned in my previous post. But Ruby Eyes already made it clear that this hadn't happened, no matter how surprising this is to me now. I'm guessing I must have had certain timing habits that made the discrepancy invisible in all scenarios I ever compared the timers.

 

Anyway, I grok you. I don't consider the discrepancy even remotely useful, but that's my playstyle talking. (I don't use Sylvi's, by the way, so I had no idea that it was different there.)

 

Thanks for the detailed history!

 

Edited February 25, 2015 by pinkgothic

[Darth Krande]

 

aND* egg for free. Preferably to someone who often uses Allure of Neglected Dragons

http://dragcave.net/teleport/bdee9f3f42b87...44dd7c6ec328a05

[bbik]

... I am, however, in the middle of rewriting everything, so hopefully that'll help speed it up regardless!  I'll have more information about that soon, once I get a few basic things set up.

As promised, more information! But first, a history lesson.

 

As some of you may remember, this site was originally designed purely for neglected experiments. It came about because Soti-Dragon's site, which had a great tool for experimenters, went down. So I, with no clue what I was doing, no experience with any sort of programming, and minimal experience with HTML, decided to see if I could recreate that tool. Very much to my surprise, I succeeded! But I had nowhere to host my creation publicly, and no money. Conveniently, Agrona was one of the ND experimenters, and she had some space on her personal hosting account, which she very kindly allowed me to use. Thus, the ND auto-refresher came to see the light of day.

 

Eventually, that one page expanded to include a more user-friendly code submission, and then a full ER, then a Daycare... Along the way, it gained the name "Neglected Dragon Emergency Room", then later was updated to "The Allure of Neglected Dragons", because it had become so much more than just an ER. The user base also grew so much that Agrona had to upgrade her hosting account, possibly even twice (I don't remember that part).

 

That brings us up to today.

 

There are so many improvements and additions that I would like to make to the site, but its current code is such a mess as to be largely unmaintainable. In fact, I'm astounded the site continues to work at all, much less as well as it does, considering how clueless I was when I created it all.

 

Additionally, Agrona no longer plays DC, so I do not anticipate that she will be renewing her hosting account, nor the domain name. I expect the current hosting and domain to expire late this spring or early in the summer. If that happens, AoND will need a new home, or it will go offline entirely. To that end, I have already purchased a new domain name. I have not yet purchased hosting, because that is far more expensive, and I would appreciate some help in paying for it -- I expect it will cost around $100-$150 for a year.

 

I have also (finally!) been working on overhauling the site's code so the new domain can use the new and improved version of the site. I am hoping I will be able to finish everything before the current site runs out of time, and preferably with at least a month of two of buffer time, so everyone has a chance to notice the switch before the current site goes away. But, AoND has become quite a large beast! So I'm not sure if I will have enough time, despite treating it as a second full-time job for the past few months, and probably for several months to come. Ideally, I will have everything rewritten and tested in time, and be able to migrate all data (dragons, trackers, etc.) from the current site to the new one. However, if it gets down to the wire and I have to choose between finishing updates or migrating data, I will be putting the priority on the updates, with profuse apologies to anyone who loses data. I will try to put up a notice to save your records externally before we get to that point, though, so there is no need to worry about it yet.

 

tl;dr

- AoND will be reborn within the next few months -- new domain, new layout, new back-end.

- It's approaching time to pay for hosting again, and as with previous renewals, help would be appreciated!

 

 

Edit for two small clarification points:

- If there is money available above the cost for a single year, it will either be saved for the next year's renewal, or be used towards purchasing multiple years up front, depending on the amount.

- I intend to hold off on purchasing the hosting until I have as much of the site redone as I can, before it gets too close to the current site going offline. Once the new version is up and running, I will post to let everyone know.

Edited March 5, 2015 by bbik

[Ruby Eyes]

That donation button at the bottom of AoND, does that go to your account or to Agrona's?

[bbik]

That donation button at the bottom of AoND, does that go to your account or to Agrona's?

It goes to mine, as of a couple days ago. That was one of the "few basic things" I needed to take care of before posting the update.

 

 

And a huge thanks to our first donor!

[Ruby Eyes]

Alright, so one might better do a hard refresh before hitting that button.