Jump to content
joiner123

Battling

Recommended Posts

Battling should have a timer like other actions (recovery/rest time?).

I think each breed should have a different time that must be waited to battle. Blacks and vines should have the shortest timers until they can next battle, and depending on how fight inclined the breed is, that determines the timer.

For white, mints, etc, it's be "this breed is not capable of battling".

I think draks and neos should be left out, too, not sentient enough to battle.

That's what I was thinking, too. A short cool down period, that differs slightly depending on the dragon's breed.

 

Beyond that, I also think the dragon should have to want to fight, on top of being rested enough to. Its kinda of an add on. Ussually, I think, that if a dragon is able to fight, it will want to (if its the right breed) but not always.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

I think I have to agree with the 'you won't have to battle' wagon.  Its the same way a person won't be forced to get lineage dragons, or CBs, or non-inbreds.

 

And, if you do want dragons with high stat parents, but don't want to go through the bother of training, you can always trade.

 

Now, if it turns out this is logistically impossible, obviously I think the idea should be scrapped. But otherwise, I think this could be done quite tastefully, not like another pokemon, and in a way that doesn't force players to play.

 

1) Only battling dragons should battle.

This should leave out mints, whites, and any other species the artist/creator says would not fight.

Also, I'm wondering if we should leave out draks, neos and any other 'animal' intelligence creatures, just for ethics sake.

 

2) Users can't just order dragons around. 

I'm thinking this should be put into play slightly differently than other 'actions'. Maybe a small, mandatory cool down period (the dragon needs to rest), but the dragon also has to want to battle. This, I think, could come up randomly. When the dragon decided it wants to, and you click the action, you can choose to fight another dragon who also wants to battle.

 

3) No advantages essential to the game.

So, a well-trained dragon shouldn't be given special BSAs, actions, and rare eggs shouldn't appear for winning.

It would be nice for well-trained dragons to have stats. Good stats, could, of course make their offspring worth more, same as with lineages. But maybe an option to completely hide stats from people who don't want to show them?

 

They're just a few suggestions, but I think they could go a long way to adressing the main problems people see with battling.

I agree with this.

 

I definitely think that the breeds need to be in character. But you know, now that they're working on new dragons, who's to say that there won't be new ones in the future that are also geared towards the battling side of the spectrum? So I think that it's probably a good thing that there aren't lots of breeds like that now because, if we were to get a system like this, it would probably be best to start out on a smaller scale.

 

And I agree that battling shouldn't be something you can do over and over right away. I think that a randomized time would be good because, yes, some times here are set, but the growth time isn't. So I think that a less rigid battle system would not only be in keeping with that, but would require more interaction with the site.

 

I also think that having an encapsulated system is for the best. The stats should be their own reward, IMO. That way no one will have to battle to get get things like special hatching times or the like. And if eggs bred from fighting parents become valuable, then that's no more then a dozen other things that users can do to increase value in trades.

 

~Sarah~

Share this post


Link to post
That's what I was thinking, too. A short cool down period, that differs slightly depending on the dragon's breed.

 

Beyond that, I also think the dragon should have to want to fight, on top of being rested enough to. Its kinda of an add on. Ussually, I think, that if a dragon is able to fight, it will want to (if its the right breed) but not always.

Timer could also serve as the "this dragon feels like fighting" indicator, methinks. Not just rest time, but the time that has to pass before the dragon wants to battle again.

Share this post


Link to post

I am not in favour of a batteling system - I like DC for its simplicity - if I wanted to fight or have a complicated collectible game I would play something else... smile.gif

 

However I am not totally oposing it either as I don't want to take away the fun of people who really want it - I just would like it to be optional and one doesn't have to use or participate in it to obtain "necasarry" DC features (necasarry being probably not the right word for an online game...tongue.gif )

 

as long as it is ensured to not cause much lag and does not influence my way of playing I don't care if it is installed or not smile.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Timer could also serve as the "this dragon feels like fighting" indicator, methinks. Not just rest time, but the time that has to pass before the dragon wants to battle again.

That could work, too.

 

*shrugs* I don't care which way it goes, really, as long as it seems natural. Whichever is easier to code is probably going the one which makes it, for obvious reasons.

Share this post


Link to post

A lot of us have no lives, lol, love our dragon pets and can't imagine wanting them to battle.

 

After all, we were lured in here in the first place by the heart-jerking promise of saving cute baby dragons from dying.

 

Typically, people of a more nurturing psychological type who are attracted by the idea of saving dragons will be more concerned with raising and breeding healthy dragons than watching them fight.

 

So don't be too surprised if a fair percentage of the users might not find this idea appeals to them.

 

I would strongly recommend that if anything of this sort is implemented, it be something entirely unaffecting those to whom the idea is not of interest.

 

 

Edit: in clarification, speaking only for myself, of course, my personal concept of my dragons is of a group of noble, intelligent, social animals who would fight only to defend their Cave.

 

To me, they are pets (albiet in a social group) and my real-life pets have always been valued family members.

 

And in my mental associations, battling represents either a mechanical game concept, like battling robos or whatever, or something sickening where animals are torn apart for their owner's and/or various bookmaker's potential profit and the amusement of those who enjoy such spectacles.

 

So my reaction is likely not typical of many, as the presence of battling would conflict with the world-view I personally happen to have of the dragons of DC, so that if it were to be implemented I'd be in with those who would prefer that it simply be an entirely separate option and possible, as suggested, for those to whom battling and its attendent worldview doesn't appeal, to be able to ignore it.

 

Of course, we all have different mental concepts of what our dragons and their world are like and different ideas of what we want our dragons to be likely to do and be, but I thought I might as well mention the reasons I felt strongly enough about this to specify that I prefered this be separate, as has, I believe, been so far proposed, whether or not this statement matters to anyone but myself.

 

Although the introduction of battling would, in actuality, represent and promote a different cultural aspect than that of the Caves of many people, according to descriptions, so that RPing, for example, might take a different general direction or any number of changes occur as a result to which we would all have to adapt in any event.

 

Change happens and it's generally not possible for everyone to be pleased by it.

 

But it's often easier to deal with change when prepared for potential ramifications.

Edited by Syphoneira

Share this post


Link to post

I'm sorry but this isn't Pokemon.

-_____________-

 

Pokemon. Is. Not. Bad. Personally, I think the way Pokemon handles combat is a pretty good middle-ground between petsite-esque games and other combat-oriented video games, and I think such a take on battling could be applied to Dragon Cave without turning DC into a carbon copy of Pokemon.

 

As much as I hate to compare a wonderful site like Dragon Cave to a hellhole like UniCreatures (I'm still sore that they make you pay for stuff; sue me), but combat is one of the few things in UC that I do not pray will never happen to DC.

 

UC is completely dedicated to making sure there is nothing remotely resembling violence in their game. Yet they have a combat feature, in the form of "games" (rather mindless and stupid ones; I'm sure TJ could invent something better), which do not present the creatures as mindlessly obeying the will of their masters or being forced into fighting when they don't want to. I figure if we replace "Beach Volleyball" with simply "Spar," we could pull it off without being too petsite-y.

 

On top of that, combat in UC doesn't get the user anything they can't get already, except perhaps some prestige. Also, training your creatures gets you nothing but "Accomplishments," a stupid and retarded feature I hope TJ would never, ever implement even if you held a gun to his head. While all unicreatures can participate in the "games," some are just really bad at it, and nobody in their right mind would use them.

 

EDIT: Moreover, dragons are not unicreatures. Dragons do not follow the whims of the guy who runs UniCreatures, and therefore are not a bunch of freaking hippies. I'm sure a Red dragon would not think twice about attacking a Magi that happened to wander onto his territory.

Edited by ~!~

Share this post


Link to post
I'm sure a Red dragon would not think twice about attacking a Magi that happened to wander onto his territory.

Blacks, reds, magis, earths, storms, vines and ice all sound like agressive dragons from their desciptions. wink.gif

Even if our dragons don't fight over territory, they certainly sound like they'd battle for sport.

Share this post


Link to post

Okay... although I still wouldn't mind battling, perhaps I could suggest a slightly different approach?

 

Training, or something? Various activities, like races, which improves speed, and dodging, which improves agility....? It doesn't nessisarily need to be dragon battling. It could be passed off as training in case of a battle.

 

I think this might be harder to work out, but it still has stats, and gives users extra things to do, and doesn't force dragons to fight.

Share this post


Link to post
Okay... although I still wouldn't mind battling, perhaps I could suggest a slightly different approach?

 

Training, or something? Various activities, like races, which improves speed, and dodging, which improves agility....? It doesn't nessisarily need to be dragon battling. It could be passed off as training in case of a battle.

 

I think this might be harder to work out, but it still has stats, and gives users extra things to do, and doesn't force dragons to fight.

Whiptails like to race each other, so, things like that could work. Breed Specific Attacks?

Share this post


Link to post

Perhaps we need a second topic?

 

The first this one for those arguing if we should have it and the second for the HOW to implement it?

 

For those who want to discuss the details, their getting silenced by those who don't want it, so not ideas can be thrown into the mix. If the ones who want it want to talk about it, then let them have a discussion topic SOULY on how it could be and leave this to discuss, as I said, if it SHOULD be.

 

Edit:

I look at the BSA topic and I think this could just be an answer to the dragons that can't find their BSA right now anyway.

Edited by Geobreeder

Share this post


Link to post

I look at the BSA topic and I think this could just be an answer to the dragons that can't find their BSA right now anyway.

 

I wouldn't like this as a BSA. Currently all BSAs affect dragons in some way, usually with the eggs and hatchlings. A battle system should not affect the core game of collecting dragons in some way.

 

I would strongly recommend that if anything of this sort is implemented, it be something entirely unaffecting those to whom the idea is not of interest.

 

I would equate it to a lineage. I ignore lineages, so if you don't want to battle, just ignore it.

 

Okay... although I still wouldn't mind battling, perhaps I could suggest a slightly different approach?

 

Training, or something? Various activities, like races, which improves speed, and dodging, which improves agility....? It doesn't nessisarily need to be dragon battling. It could be passed off as training in case of a battle.

 

I think this might be harder to work out, but it still has stats, and gives users extra things to do, and doesn't force dragons to fight.

 

This was my second idea. However, I won't be able to truly formulate any plan until after Christmas. Though it will have to be in short steps. Possibly implement something where black dragons on your scroll can battle each other as a test. Battle, as in hone skills.

 

The only thing I can say I had in mind was a win or lose would be based on skill but also on a random. So there would be a chance, like 2%, that a new dragon could beat a skilled dragon on the first try. As well, the spars would only be for stats. Each breed would have to have their own base stats that you could then "improve" but only to an extent. Like a black might be able to train "strength" 50% over base, but speed could only be trained 10%. Oh, and you couldn't spar/train again for at least 1 day, which could also be randomized.

 

Edit: There are some that mentioned it might lag DC. If there is a way to put it off-site, but you had to be registered to that site to use it (so no one could battle your dragons without your consent), would anyone be interested? If that is not what you meant by third-party developer TJ, please say so.

Edited by zamirathe

Share this post


Link to post

While I love this idea, I don't see how it could work AND be original.

 

Pokemon/Card game (Yu-gi-oh isn't the only one)/Bakugan/Bayblades (anyone else remember those?)-like battles are out.

 

Stat Training/Sparring sounds a lot like UC to me. Worse, it sounds like the school from Webkinz. That would RIUN DC.

 

Outright colosseum matches sound a lot like MyBrute. (This was why I originally went with the "then play something else" argument.)

 

Randomized match outcomes would be so annoying. Imagine the strongest dragon on your scroll being beaten by newbies for a month solid.

 

All I can think of would be to submit the match and have a voting page on the battling area front page. Spcetators could vote on combatants and three hours after the match starts, the votes are tallied and the winner decided.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm sorry but this isn't Pokemon.

Nor is it Neopets or Magistream, so I'm sure that you were against safe trading, right?

 

Just because another game has something does not mean that this game cannot have it also. Frankly, we may never get this. TJ didn't say that we would, only that it could be coded in some form and that it didn't need to be shot down automatically. I think that people have brought up some legitimate concerns about a system like this and the effects it might have on the game and those are being discussed. However, the "___ game does that and so we can't" argument seems pointless in light of the fact that we are currently adopting a trading system that we did not have before and that other games did.

 

~Sarah~

Edited by skauble

Share this post


Link to post

The was once a simply system I knew where you had points into speed, strength and endurance.

 

-Speed was your chance to be hit Vs their speed.

-Strength was your damage power

-Endurance how much you took.

 

Everyone had HP equal to each over per lvl. And tit was all down to luck.

 

There was a challenge board with all the players that were up to 5 levels above and below your own level, you could not see any others but they could still challenge you if you want.

 

Battles were automatic each round, but you could pull out if you honestly thought you were loosing.

 

It was a simple system that didn't require a lot to do. You also had the training system for the XP grinders. DC could do something VERY simple like that, its not too complex and sticks with DCs basic simple collecting site routine. Some dragons, as I said earlier might not fight but act as other things to you.

 

There was a few complex things:

 

When you lost was your fighter couldn't fight for 1 hour. There was money involve (game money, not real money), and you could spend a LOT of gold getting your fight healed sooner by a priest. Gold was gained by victories over other players (inexpensive bets that made it so you could just blow all your money) and by training (the site stated that you were fighting against small time fighters for petty change).

 

The site doesn't exist anymore anyway, buts ideas weren't so difficult that you couldn't do anything with the site. They tried to keep it as simple as possible, hence why there were only 3 stats. Since DC is simple "pet" site, my opinion we should find something simple if we do have a battle thing going on. Besides the more complex the battle system the more resources and problems occur.

Share this post


Link to post

I do agree that I would like an extra something to do while raising eggs, purely optional and not significantly affecting the actual dragon raising aspect. Not neccesarily battling, but something. For instance the 'Quest' system of MagiStream is a good concept (though not very well executed in my opinion). I'm NOT suggesting DC does the same, simply that it is a good example of something other than battling which could be amusing.

Share this post


Link to post

I, personally, am not interested in seeing battling as an option for my dragons. I doubt I would ever use it - I am just not THAT obsessed with my dragons (it's also why I have no lineage dragons, yet).

 

However, I would not object if this was implemented. If others want it, and would enjoy it, go for it. So long as I would not be forced to participate. smile.gif

 

And while I had the mental image of Dragon Cave becoming something akin to Mafia Wars/Shogun Wars/Vampire Wars/etc.... let's not go there. tongue.gif

Share this post


Link to post

I, personally, am not interested in seeing battling as an option for my dragons. I doubt I would ever use it - I am just not THAT obsessed with my dragons (it's also why I have no lineage dragons, yet).

 

However, I would not object if this was implemented. If others want it, and would enjoy it, go for it. So long as I would not be forced to participate. smile.gif

 

And while I had the mental image of Dragon Cave becoming something akin to Mafia Wars/Shogun Wars/Vampire Wars/etc.... let's not go there. tongue.gif

I have to agree with this. If someone completed their scroll goal, DOES NOT go on the forums, they will get so bored. All of you saying to go play another game then no I like this game. I like to play the game so I'm not going to play another game; I just need action, something to do. Also some of you saying that go play neopets while you're waiting isn't part of DC so it doesn't make sense on any reason. It may not have to be battling but it is something that needs to be fun. Battling can be optional so what the heck is the deal if you don't have to do it?!

Edited by joiner123

Share this post


Link to post

I think it's amusing that 100% of the people here feel battling would be actual hand to hand (or claw to claw, as it were) combat.

 

If dragons are intelligent and magical, why would they feel the need to slug it out? Computer programmers can one-up each other with doing X, Y, and Z with code, they don't need to beat each other up...

 

So if it WAS a battling system, why not have the dragons battle each other with their wits and cunning, and magic? Blacks might want to duke it out, but I can see Magi dragons preferring to play six-dimensional chess or something instead. Or a riddle contest.

 

There's a game in an RP my husband made that's played by a race that's naturally psionic, where it's like a combination of dodge ball and soccer, but you're not allowed to touch the ball at all, and you have to mentally control the ball to move. Distracting the other team's players is a valid, and much-used tactic. One team scored the winning goal by doing a mental illusion on the other team, making them think the ball was somewhere else.

 

So no, if there was a battling system, why WOULD it be like pokemon, or any "arena" style system, except for the fact that it would be slightly easier to code, and extremely simple?

Share this post


Link to post
I think it's amusing that 100% of the people here feel battling would be actual hand to hand (or claw to claw, as it were) combat.

 

If dragons are intelligent and magical, why would they feel the need to slug it out? Computer programmers can one-up each other with doing X, Y, and Z with code, they don't need to beat each other up...

 

So if it WAS a battling system, why not have the dragons battle each other with their wits and cunning, and magic? Blacks might want to duke it out, but I can see Magi dragons preferring to play six-dimensional chess or something instead. Or a riddle contest.

 

There's a game in an RP my husband made that's played by a race that's naturally psionic, where it's like a combination of dodge ball and soccer, but you're not allowed to touch the ball at all, and you have to mentally control the ball to move. Distracting the other team's players is a valid, and much-used tactic. One team scored the winning goal by doing a mental illusion on the other team, making them think the ball was somewhere else.

 

So no, if there was a battling system, why WOULD it be like pokemon, or any "arena" style system, except for the fact that it would be slightly easier to code, and extremely simple?

I support this it might be difficult to program, its simple sounding enough.

Share this post


Link to post
I think it's amusing that 100% of the people here feel battling would be actual hand to hand (or claw to claw, as it were) combat.

 

If dragons are intelligent and magical, why would they feel the need to slug it out? Computer programmers can one-up each other with doing X, Y, and Z with code, they don't need to beat each other up...

 

So if it WAS a battling system, why not have the dragons battle each other with their wits and cunning, and magic? Blacks might want to duke it out, but I can see Magi dragons preferring to play six-dimensional chess or something instead. Or a riddle contest.

 

There's a game in an RP my husband made that's played by a race that's naturally psionic, where it's like a combination of dodge ball and soccer, but you're not allowed to touch the ball at all, and you have to mentally control the ball to move. Distracting the other team's players is a valid, and much-used tactic. One team scored the winning goal by doing a mental illusion on the other team, making them think the ball was somewhere else.

 

So no, if there was a battling system, why WOULD it be like pokemon, or any "arena" style system, except for the fact that it would be slightly easier to code, and extremely simple?

I'm 100% for this.

Share this post


Link to post

I personally support this idea. However, I insist that:

 

1) This system be COMPLETELY optional. A game's not a game if you're forced to do it. Then it turns into a job.

 

2) Any "rewards" of winning a match should not affect any part of the main game- this includes dying, less/more of a chance of successful breeding, ect.

 

3) Only breeds that have been stated as aggressive should be allowed to fight

 

Now, in response to people that compare this sort of option to dog fighting, we should note that many breeds are naturally restless and aggressive. Perhaps dragons could only fight when they want to, and less sentient breeds be kept out of the fighting, along with passive breeds, but this has already been stated in this thread.

 

What hasn't been discussed so thoroughly is the matter of "ordering" your dragon around during a fight and telling it how spar. This problem could be solved by, say, the humans are just there to make sure the dragons don't hurt each other too badly. Then, for the match, the players play as the contending dragons, and it plays out as if the dragons are making their own decisions on how to fight. A bit like the book Heart's Blood if anyone has read it, accept here, it will be less for sport and more for the dragon's own interest.

 

Imagine it less like a fighting ring and more like taking your dog to the dog park. Most dogs appreciate being able to run around and interact with other dogs, but its not a necessity for a dog owner to take their dogs to a park. This sparing system would be less for the human's benefit and more for the dragon's since the dragons suggested to participate are sentient enough to not do anything they don't want to, such as become a puny human's entertainment source.

 

Now, as for Axiluvia's suggestion, it seems interesting enough, and I certainly wouldn't object to it if it were implemented- but what about the breeds such as Reds or Blacks that have no other abilities other than their claws or fire breath? This system might work to be an enthralling addition for breeds that can't "fight" under the convention conditions of the word, such as Whiptails or Pinks, but some breeds just seem more prone to fighting than word games =\

Edited by SnowstarX

Share this post


Link to post


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.