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Twilight

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So Bella's basically a self-insert Mary Sue that everyone loves despite her constant whining, complaining, moping, and generic gloominess.

The reason everyone loves her is because they can see themselves in her.

Most people have felt bland and unnoticed at some point in their lives.

It makes sense to fantasize that some totally hot/perfect superhuman being is completely in love with you and won't take no for an answer.

It makes people hopeful that if boring, mopey, whiny, clumsy ol' Bella can be loved by godly Edward,

then maybe one day some amazing person will finally notice them and love them too.

Edited by miladyz

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...and won't take no for an answer.

... I would like a guy who will, on occasion, take no for an answer.

Like, "Hey, I'm gonna creep in your bedroom and watch you sleep, randomly, without you knowing about it," or "I'm going to dismantle your car's engine and bribe my family to kidnap you so you can't visit your friends," or "I'm going to make a deal with your friend that if he can convince you to get an abortion, he gets to knock you up with his kid instead."

Yeah, I'd kind of like to be able to say no to these situations.

 

There's a fine line between persistence and controlling. o_o;

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I read the first book, and couldn't get through the second one. They are badly written and don't even get me started on "sparkling vampires"... I haven't seen the newer movies, but the first one was pretty painful, that girl couldn't act her way out of a wet paper bag. >_>

Edited by mxtine

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"Hey, I'm gonna creep in your bedroom and watch you sleep, randomly, without you knowing about it," or "I'm going to dismantle your car's engine and bribe my family to kidnap you so you can't visit your friends," or "I'm going to make a deal with your friend that if he can convince you to get an abortion, he gets to knock you up with his kid instead."

But he does it because he LOVES you! wink.gif

 

that girl couldn't act her way out of a wet paper bag. >_>

 

She always has the same expression on her face.

You know, the weird angsty/pouty one.

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Oh, oh, oh... a Twilight thread. Let me bust out my fangs.

 

I started on vampires more than a decade ago, long before Twilight had ever been dreamed up. It began when I watched Interview with the Vampire. I was a huge Tom Cruise fan back then. (This was before he went all psycho. Think Legend.) Throw in some young Brad Pitt and Kristen Dunst, add blood, and poof. Instant vampire lover right here. I read all the books in Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles (though they started to get awful at Tale of the Body Thief) and moved on... but not before standing outside Anne Rice's house in the Garden District of New Orleans. I read Dracula, watched old and new versions of the movies, and continued to adore all things bloody and dark as a teenager. Blade, Buffy, Angel, you name it and I was there. In recent times I've been hooked on Charlaine Harris' Southern Vampire Chronicles, and while I'm not a huge fan of True Blood I have a few words on the series: Eric Northman. OMNOMNOMNOMNOM.

 

So when I heard about a new vampire series called Twilight, I was down. And yes, I read all four books. I hated it. Sparkly, daywalking vampires that can get girls pregnant? DO NOT WANT.

 

And here's why!

 

1. Meyer's vampires are overpowered. Classically, vampires burn/explode in daylight. Why? Because for us puny humans, that's often the only way to defeat such a powerful creature. It's also a time during which we can move and they can't follow us, giving humans a head start. Sparkling does not count as a weakness, even if it would get them found out. I'm not totally against daywalking: take Blade as an example. However, Blade has a backstory that explains an ability unique among vampires. And, IMO, it's a decent backstory. Blade is also not as strong during the day as he is at night. Meyer took vampire cannon and smashed it, with no reasonable explanation. In doing so, she made her vampires infallible. Not cool.

 

2. Sparkling. What? OMG why? Even if she made them daywalkers, why did they need to sparkle? So they'd have an excuse to live in backwoods, nothing-ever-happens-but-rain Forks. If the Cullens didn't sparkle, they'd have no reason to have ever put Edward anywhere near Bella. It's easily one of the flimsiest plot devices I've ever seen.

 

3. High School. For most people (myself included) high school is not the best time in their lives. I would never, ever want to go back there, yet the Cullen kids decide to be in high school forever?! Why? It's not like they're ever going to get normal, 9 to 5 jobs, now are they? Why would they need high school degrees? And how do they keep enrolling over and over with the same address? Wouldn't that raise some alarms? This is just another nonsensical reason for Eddie to be put squarely in Bella's path. There's no other cause -either that I could imagine or that Meyer clearly states- as to why the Cullens keep coming back to Forks High School. Besides being sparkly.

 

"Lestat and Louie feel sorry for vampires that sparkle in the sun. They would never hurt immortals who choose to spend eternity going to high school over and over again in a small town - anymore than they would hurt the physically disabled or the mentally challenged." -Anne Rice. (Yes, she really said that. It was posted on her Facebook page on Halloween and she writes the posts herself.)

 

4. Venom. Since when do vampires have venom? The bite passes on the curse. In some traditions there must be an exchange of blood for the human to be turned, in others just being bitten is enough. But never once, in any other vampire novel I've read or heard about, do vampires spread the curse through venom. They're not effing snakes. Is it because Meyer shies away from having Bella drink blood? Obviously not. She drinks it hand over fist while she's pregnant. (Yeah, I spoiled it for you. No warning. Problem?) Or is it just because Meyer doesn't want her drinking Edward's blood? I think it's because most teenage girls don't like blood.

 

 

5. Bella. She is hands down the most lackluster, Mary-Sue heroine I've ever seen. I mean, seriously? When she finally gets turned (Pow, unanounced spoiler again!) it becomes very painfully clear that Meyer has used all Bella's previous "deficiencies" -being clumsy, dark circles under her eyes, pale skin- to make her perfectly suited to being a vampire. The Cullens are astonished when she can turn away from human blood as a newborn fledgling. (A feat apparently so rare that nobody's ever seen it done, omigosh!) Furthermore, she can shield other vampires from any and every brain-based attack power possessed by another vampire. Seriously?! Godmod much, there, Stephanie? Bella has no interests other than boys. She's not into writing, photography, books, sports, horses, unicorns, cars, clothes, NOTHING. She took ballet for a few years when she was a little girl. That's it. She has bad relationships with both her parents, treating and thinking of them badly in most cases. I don't think Bella is an author surrogate. I think Bella represents Meyer's view of what an average teenage girl is like. Which, if you stop to think about it, is far worse than an author surrogate. She tried to make Bella Mary Sue Everybody, and in doing so completely wiped the character of any original thoughts or character traits.

 

Furthermore, she broke Jacob Black's heart. I'd stake her for that alone.

 

The Quileute Wolf Pack is the only redeeming quality in Meyer's books. I actually like the idea of a particular Native American tribe blessed with the gift of shapeshifting to combat an ancient natural enemy: the vampire. One of the Volturi states that they are not "Children of the Moon", referring to a classical bitten werewolf and thus distinguishing them as the shapeshifters they are. And scarred Emily. That's a great character. Though Sam gave her a horrific scar in his early days as a werewolf, Emily still takes good care of her boys, and Sam in return takes good care of her. Imprinting is a neat and original little quirk she added in. Imprinting really does happen in the animal world, though technically it's more about male birds preferring mates that look like the female bird which raises them. I still think that's a unique twist and (though it almost hurts to admit it) I liek eet. (Except for the part where they imprint on toddlers. Gross, Meyer. Why would you do that to your wolf boys?!) If Twilight had been about Bella and Jacob's love story, not involving vampires at all, I probably would have thoroughly enjoyed the novel... even if Bella blows as a character and the writing style is almost childlike in its simplicity.

 

And, finally, what you've all been waiting for...

 

~Removed; please make sure the whole word is censored~

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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2. Sparkling. What? OMG why? Even if she made them daywalkers, why did they need to sparkle? So they'd have an excuse to live in backwoods, nothing-ever-happens-but-rain Forks. If the Cullens didn't sparkle, they'd have no reason to have ever put Edward anywhere near Bella. It's easily one of the flimsiest plot devices I've ever seen.

 

Because literally, as you said:

 

Twilight had ever been dreamed up.

 

From her website:

 

I woke up (on that June 2nd) from a very vivid dream. In my dream, two people were having an intense conversation in a meadow in the woods. One of these people was just your average girl. The other person was fantastically beautiful, sparkly, and a vampire. They were discussing the difficulties inherent in the facts that A) they were falling in love with each other while B) the vampire was particularly attracted to the scent of her blood, and was having a difficult time restraining himself from killing her immediately. For what is essentially a transcript of my dream, please see Chapter 13 ("Confessions") of the book.

 

Though I had a million things to do (i.e. making breakfast for hungry children, dressing and changing the diapers of said children, finding the swimsuits that no one ever puts away in the right place, etc.), I stayed in bed, thinking about the dream. I was so intrigued by the nameless couple's story that I hated the idea of forgetting it; it was the kind of dream that makes you want to call your friend and bore her with a detailed description. (Also, the vampire was just so darned good-looking, that I didn't want to lose the mental image.) Unwillingly, I eventually got up and did the immediate necessities, and then put everything that I possibly could on the back burner and sat down at the computer to write—something I hadn't done in so long that I wondered why I was bothering. But I didn't want to lose the dream, so I typed out as much as I could remember, calling the characters "he" and "she."

 

And that's probably a way more serious answer than you were looking for, lol.

 

(But I had to, as I totally laughed at "Twilight had ever been dreamed up." when I read it in your post, because that is literally what happened.)

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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... I would like a guy who will, on occasion, take no for an answer.

Like, "Hey, I'm gonna creep in your bedroom and watch you sleep, randomly, without you knowing about it," or "I'm going to dismantle your car's engine and bribe my family to kidnap you so you can't visit your friends," or "I'm going to make a deal with your friend that if he can convince you to get an abortion, he gets to knock you up with his kid instead."

Yeah, I'd kind of like to be able to say no to these situations.

 

There's a fine line between persistence and controlling. o_o;

~Someone~ doesn't read those cheap romance novels by the dozens. -shot-

 

I've honestly no idea how Twilight became so popular. It's just a generic romance novel, only with vampires. I can't exact say either one is creative.

Edited by Zovesta

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1.  Meyer's vampires are overpowered.  Classically, vampires burn/explode in daylight.  Why?  Because for us puny humans, that's often the only way to defeat such a powerful creature.  It's also a time during which we can move and they can't follow us, giving humans a head start.  Sparkling does not count as a weakness, even if it would get them found out.

Definitely agree with this.

I really don't understand why the vampires are so fussed about being 'found out' through their glittering. First of all, no one would see someone standing in the sun and sparkling and think OMG IT'S A VAMPIRE, VAMPIRES ARE REAL, WE HAVE TO KILL THEM ALL! And even if they did? Meyer-pires can only be killed by fire, can only reliably be dismembered by vampire or shape-shifter (and apparently 'real' werewolf?) teeth, and can move faster than humans can see. How are people a danger?

 

3.  High School.  For most people (myself included) high school is not the best time in their lives.  I would never, ever want to go back there, yet the Cullen kids decide to be in high school forever?!  Why?

I never understood that. The Cullen 'kids' don't interact with others, so they don't gain anything from the social aspect. They've got utterly perfect memory recall, so it's not like they're even gaining anything from repeating the same classes over and over. It just draws attention to them when a bunch of adoptive siblings are openly dating (taboo, despite them having no blood relation). If the community needed to know Carlisle and Esme had kids, why not say they're homeschooled and let them do what they want?

 

4.  Venom.  Since when do vampires have venom?  The bite passes on the curse.  In some traditions there must be an exchange of blood for the human to be turned, in others just being bitten is enough.  But never once, in any other vampire novel I've read or heard about, do vampires spread the curse through venom.  They're not effing snakes.

I think it's because Meyer is supposed to have done next to no research of vampire lore.

On the other hand, she does not deal with vampirism as the spreading of a curse, or making of demons. In her 'verse, it's a biological change at a genetic level. The venom alters and adds new genetic material to the human to make it into a different animal.

Honestly, I didn't find the venom idea so terrible. Though what she ended up doing with the chromosomes in the creation of the Spawn-child was kind of stupid... 25 chromosome pairs + 23 chromosome pairs =/= 24 chromosome pairs. You get 23 pairs and two unmatched chromosomes.

 

Though Sam gave her a horrific scar in his early days as a werewolf, Emily still takes good care of her boys, and Sam in return takes good care of her.  Imprinting is a neat and original little quirk she added in.  Imprinting really does happen in the animal world, though technically it's more about male birds preferring mates that look like the female bird which raises them.  I still think that's a unique twist and (though it almost hurts to admit it) I liek eet.  (Except for the part where they imprint on toddlers.  Gross, Meyer.  Why would you do that to your wolf boys?!)

Honestly, I'm mixed on the wolf pack.

On the one hand, they're the most real and likable characters of the books.

On the other, I can't stand the way they treated Leah. Honestly, the amount of stuff she had to deal with in the space of a year or two? Sam disappearing for weeks, dumping her for Emily, Emily nearly getting killed, becoming a werewolf, causing her father's fatal heart attack, finding out that Sam was the one who mauled Emily, not a bear, having to deal with all of this with a bunch of guys (including her ex and her little brother) hearing her every thought... She has a lot of reason to be an angry person. She gets nothing but bile from the pack. Paul, who we're only ever told is just an angry sort of person without any kind of reason for it, is only ever called 'annoying' for nearly flipping out over a hot dog.

I mean, really? They know every thing that Leah is dealing with, and not one of them tries to help her?

 

And then imprinting... Nothing about imprinting is okay, the way Meyer does it. Particularly not Sam's and Emily's relationship.

Y'know why he ended up attacking her right? She rejected him. She told him to go back to Leah, and she said something about him being like his deadbeat father and that was what made him flip and slash her face.

The only instance we have of a girl actually trying to reject the guy that imprinted on her resulted in him nearly killing her, and her ending up with him anyway.

 

The imprinting on children is just... bleh. Staking out an infant as your future baby-mama ain't cool. And the only reasonable explanation that's given for imprinting is that it is a sexual thing, so really all they're doing is grooming their future wives. It's such a freaky system.

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@ Socky: Oh, you broke my heart taking my pony down! ;A; But, I fix'd it.

 

user posted image

 

And that's probably a way more serious answer than you were looking for, lol.

 

(But I had to, as I totally laughed at "Twilight had ever been dreamed up." when I read it in your post, because that is literally what happened.)

 

And, okay, LoL at my unwitting play on words. That aside, the fact that Meyer made her vampires sparkle because she had a dream about it only makes me hate the trait more. It shows me that she broke an accepted and well-known mythos for a reason no better than, "Well in my dreams, they sparkle." She didn't do it to make them unique, she didn't do it for the sake of the plot, she did it because her subconscious told her to. Forget the fact that vampires are by their nature creatures of darkness. Forget the fact that burning in sunlight is an Achilles' Heel for the vampire species. Forget the symbolism created by vampires being destroyed by our life-giving star. She wanted them to sparkle, so we're throwing one of the key elements of vampiric life right out the window. That makes me have an angrehface.

 

Definitely agree with this.

I really don't understand why the vampires are so fussed about being 'found out' through their glittering. First of all, no one would see someone standing in the sun and sparkling and think OMG IT'S A VAMPIRE, VAMPIRES ARE REAL, WE HAVE TO KILL THEM ALL! And even if they did? Meyer-pires can only be killed by fire, can only reliably be dismembered by vampire or shape-shifter (and apparently 'real' werewolf?) teeth, and can move faster than humans can see. How are people a danger?

 

Exactly. If I were walking down the street and saw a person that sparkled like their skin was made of diamonds, my first thought would be, "Check it out, it's Emma Frost!!" Not, "SQUEE a vampire!!" Especially if it was during the day. Killing a vampire with fire is a very difficult thing to do. If you try it at night, when they're supposed to be awake, they're really not going to hold still long enough to be set on fire. If the vampires would sleep during the day, you could possibly trap them in their resting place and light the fire, but that's not an easy thing to do. The sort of blockades it would take to keep a vampire contained would require another supernatural species of some sort to assist a human... or some heavy construction equipment.

 

I never understood that. The Cullen 'kids' don't interact with others, so they don't gain anything from the social aspect. They've got utterly perfect memory recall, so it's not like they're even gaining anything from repeating the same classes over and over. It just draws attention to them when a bunch of adoptive siblings are openly dating (taboo, despite them having no blood relation). If the community needed to know Carlisle and Esme had kids, why not say they're homeschooled and let them do what they want?

 

Right? "Hey, isn't that Alice and Jasper over there kissing?! Aren't they brother and sister?!" Also, in a classical setting, vampires tend to move away from the place they are born. Even if it's too cloudy for her to sparkle, wouldn't all the kids Bella went to school with see her on the street with a toddler that nobody's ever seen before, sporting even paler skin and red eyes, and go, "Geeze, Bella, what the censorkip.gif happened to you? Whose baby is that?" Vampires leave the places they lived their human lives to keep people from getting wise to the change. Even if Carlisle and Esme wanted everyone to know they had kids, all they'd have to say is, "Yes, they're all adopted, the youngest is nineteen." Problem solved. No high school needed. Furthermore, all the Cullen kids -Jasper especially- are tormented by the constant scent of blood and presence of nomnomnoms. That's like only allowing your kids to eat vegetarian food and making them work at McDonald's. Carlisle and Esme, Y U SO CRUEL?!

 

I think it's because Meyer is supposed to have done next to no research of vampire lore.

On the other hand, she does not deal with vampirism as the spreading of a curse, or making of demons. In her 'verse, it's a biological change at a genetic level. The venom alters and adds new genetic material to the human to make it into a different animal.

Honestly, I didn't find the venom idea so terrible. Though what she ended up doing with the chromosomes in the creation of the Spawn-child was kind of stupid... 25 chromosome pairs + 23 chromosome pairs =/= 24 chromosome pairs. You get 23 pairs and two unmatched chromosomes.

 

Well, I could definitely believe that Meyer didn't do her research, or did but didn't care about what she found.

 

The venom bothers me a lot. In both the Dracula Mythos and the Cain Mythos, vampirism is a curse directly applied by God. It spreads when a normal human becomes tainted through contact with a vampire, either by being bitten or consuming the vampire's blood. It's a combination of magic (in one form or another) and some element of biological change caused by this magic or animating force. If you went Virus-vampire, and made a really believable biological agent that caused vampirism and the physical/anatomical changes, maybe I'd buy it. But Meyer doesn't give any source for this new genetic material. If you're going to think up an entirely new species of vampire, please to be having a believable creation mythos. Thx.

 

Bella's pregnancy and Renesmee's birth are, to me, the stupidest part of the whole book. Vampires are dead. By Meyer's own admission, Wardo's heart does not beat. He does not age. He does not change. She never explains to us how or why that one particular organ continues to produce living, viable reproductive cells after the rest of his body has died. Poor Rosalie would love to have a little hellspawn, but apparently while male vampires are capable of throwing little momma-killing buggers, females' reproductive systems are just as dead as the rest of them. What is the mechanism and the reason?

 

Honestly, I'm mixed on the wolf pack.

On the one hand, they're the most real and likable characters of the books.

On the other, I can't stand the way they treated Leah. Honestly, the amount of stuff she had to deal with in the space of a year or two? Sam disappearing for weeks, dumping her for Emily, Emily nearly getting killed, becoming a werewolf, causing her father's fatal heart attack, finding out that Sam was the one who mauled Emily, not a bear, having to deal with all of this with a bunch of guys (including her ex and her little brother) hearing her every thought... She has a lot of reason to be an angry person. She gets nothing but bile from the pack. Paul, who we're only ever told is just an angry sort of person without any kind of reason for it, is only ever called 'annoying' for nearly flipping out over a hot dog.

I mean, really? They know every thing that Leah is dealing with, and not one of them tries to help her?

 

You're right about this: Leah Clearwater gets the short end of the stick all the way around. But how likely is it that an all-boys club suddenly plus one unexpected and unwanted female member is going to be warm and supportive? If I'm remembering correctly, Leah is the first female to have ever gone wolf, and even the Tribal Elders aren't sure what to make of it. In a real-world situation that didn't involve shapeshifting and vampires, I wouldn't expect a female to be welcomed into such a group or treated well. For instance, females who try to join all-male football teams. They're not allowed in the same locker room, the guys can't talk about chicks with them, (Or at least not in terms as crude as what they'd use around other guys.) and males aren't societally expected to provide comfort and kindness to women in whom they have no romantic interest and are not related to. Leah does seem to be a nexus of bad luck and bad treatment, but to me that makes her more real and well-developed than a lot of the other characters. It shows strength and resilience in her ability to endure all this and still stay sane. It is also a most unfortunate coincidence that she can hear what they're all thinking. If I were in her shoes, I'd move far, far away. The pack members state that when Jacob disappears into Canada, they can't hear his thoughts anymore.

 

Paul, meh, he's such an in-the-wings character that it doesn't bother me his personality never gets really flushed out. If the story had concentrated solely on the wolf pack, then I'd be disturbed by his lack of development.

 

As far as the imprinting, I'll differ with you as far as the whole concept being bust. (Though I didn't expect we'd disagree on the toddlers element, but I'll get to that in a minute.) I may be remembering some of this incorrectly -and I'm surely not about to go thumbing through a Twilight novel to find the passages I'm thinking of- but I like the way it works. When a wolf pack member meets someone that would be perfectly suited as a life mate for them, a subconscious instinct recognizes this compatibility. This instinct takes over and makes every other personal relationship in the wolf's life much less important than the relationship with the imprint partner. They would do anything for their imprinted one, and remain faithful and dedicated to that person for the rest of their lives. It makes the wolves absolutely monogamous, and furthermore it's the kind of love that many people can only ever dream of having. Absolute. Unshakable. Unwavering. Even in the face of rejection and temptation.

 

The fact that Emily tries to turn Sam down frankly makes me like her more. She doesn't want to do that to Leah, and she doesn't really know Sam that well. Perhaps my memory is foggy, but what I recall is that when Emily tries to turn him away he gets so angry he can't control his change and wounds her in the process due to their close physical proximity. Not as in, "You know what? I have a giant wolf form and I'm going to use it to maul you until you love me." Then again, among the wolves Sam is my least favorite character. I adore that Jacob turns Alpha himself and leaves Sam's pack.

 

Finally, imprinting on children. That's just so wrong. First of all, there is usually something called reverse imprinting that occurs in natural human behavior. Scope the Wiki. Those people that are in close contact with the child from birth to age six are usually not found sexually attractive by the child later in life. This means that having a wolf imprint on a child so young (regardless of the icky factor) is actually detrimental to a possible future relationship. Second, Jacob tells Bella that when an imprint occurs with such an age difference existing, the older wolf will become more of a guardian and playmate to the youngster rather than experiencing pedo urges. Yes, basically grooming the child to be a future wife/baby momma. But, of course, in the back of their minds this is what the wolf wants to occur eventually. It's the ultimate form of CREEPY UNCLE. Last but not least, children's personalities change drastically as they grow. Even a magical instinct like imprinting couldn't determine how a child would turn out as an adult. There are too many variables, things that could occur during a child's life to shape its adult personality, for any sort of determination about relationship compatibility to be made. I wonder if Meyer had a dream about a shapeshifting wolf dude protecting her kids? Or was it all simply a way to keep Jacob in Bella's life after her change?

 

And that was a much longer reply than I'd planned. Oh well. happy.gif

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See, that whole 'meets someone who's meant for them,' thing doesn't really fly given the way some of them have a complete personality change after imprinting. Like Paul, who was a really angry kind of guy who then became Mr. Chill after imprinting on Jacob's sister. If they were so perfect to begin with, why did he change so much?

 

Imprinting takes away the shifter's free will. It's not that he's entirely faithful because he will not give in to any kind of temptation. He's entirely faithful because he is mentally incapable of even recognizing another human being as a potential partner. The way Meyer phrases it through Quil, that he 'doesn't see girls faces anymore,' almost makes it sound as though he barely recognizes them as human.

 

Oh, trying to shut Sam down was nothing against Emily. I was happy that she did it. After all, that's what someone who's supposed to be like a sister would do. Leah and Sam had been dating for years, then he suddenly starts hounding after Emily? Yeah, no. There's no way Emily would've taken him up right away. The reason why the mauling bothers me is that everything about the imprinted wolf is supposed to be geared toward protecting and supporting the object of their imprinting. How can he be her protector if she can make him angry to the point of physically attacking her with just a word? How can you say the wolf 'becomes what the girl needs him to be' if he will not leave when she clearly needs (since his chasing her is ruining her relationship with her family) and wants him to?

And then you have to wonder, why is it that Sam didn't become calmer and more controlled after imprinting as the other imprinted wolves are supposed to have done?

 

The kicker for child imprinting for me was the bit Meyer threw in about Jacob having a pre-imprinting attraction to 'Smee in utero. Really, how can you claim a child as your soul mate when it's not even born yet. I think that Jake imprinting on her was just a way for Bella to keep Jake in her family. Though how you can have someone you seriously considered having as a lover now be your son-in-law is beyond me. And I really think it was a terrible thing to do for his character. Since New Moon, he'd been the personification of choice and free will for Bella. He starts his section of BD talking about how he's disgusted by the imprinting impulse. Then he imprints on the infant daughter of his crush. lolwut.

 

Imprinting as a concept could've been interesting, if it were actually done as a soul-mate thing. Just Meyer's way of doing it was just so... bleh. So many problems.

 

 

Anyway, back to Leah. Yeah, she might have been able to run to Canada and avoid all the problems of the pack, but she really probably couldn't. She'd be leaving her mother alone after she basically killed her father... I can't see her leaving.

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I honestly think that the series is overrated and shallow.

There isn't too much thought to the characters, the villains lack true incentive, and

I hate how edward is such a worry hen. if i were a fan, though,

I would definitly support jacob through the end.

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What I like: The author has a way of wording things that appeals to the nearly everyone. I read and bought the four main books. After I read the books, I was able to quote many, many parts exactly from the books after only reading it once. I really liked that. The storyline is a good idea but Meyer has a lot more work to do before she is truly as great as she and the majority of her fans think.

 

What I hate: I can't stand how women are portrayed through Bella. I don't know about the other women out there, but I'm not a clumsy, shallow, overly hormonal, idiot. All the characters in the book have very little depth and their actions tend to make no sense. Bella and Edward have nothing in common at all. This is what their relationship is based on: Bella- he's hot and mysterious. I want to be a vampire. Edward: She's weird. I wonder what she's thinking... I have never read about a relationship that was so based off of lust in my life. In real life, that relationship would have never lasted. Then again, in real life, Edward probably would've accidentally killed her.

 

There are so many AMAZING books out there that no one will even try to read, but yet, this series is getting so much attention. This series was good, but not AMAZING, especially after you really think about it. I am no longer a fan; society, honestly, ruined it for me. I can only hope that the Twilight Saga is/was a "gateway book" for more people to start reading other things.

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The author has a way of wording things that appeals to the nearly everyone.

Wait, really?

 

Because I forced myself to read the books, and I hated the way they were worded. The grammatical structure, the awkward sentences, the unnecessary purple prose...

The writing was extremely juvenile.

 

Meyer strung sentences together with ten commas, creating 'sentence minivans' when she could have made her point much more effective with several sentences. She also used wrong words many times, mixing up simple terms and making her sentences look downright stupid!

Here's one of the worst examples:

 

"Jacob shuddered, then gritted his teeth as hard as his fists."

 

...

what.

Fists do not grit. You cannot grit your fists.

 

Anyway, I'm not going to turn this into a long rant but those are my two cents. Meyer's writing is simply too juvenile and awkward for me to even consider enjoying--even if the plot hadn't been centered around a self-insert with boundary issues--and reading her books felt like slogging through a swamp.

Edited by Jackal

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LOVE Twilight. One of my favorites.

 

Team Jacob; who is win. If you're not a Jacob fan, I'll hit you with a shovel.

 

No not really, just a big fan. Movie AND book.

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Wait, really?

 

Because I forced myself to read the books, and I hated the way they were worded. The grammatical structure, the awkward sentences, the unnecessary purple prose...

The writing was extremely juvenile.

 

Meyer strung sentences together with ten commas, creating 'sentence minivans' when she could have made her point much more effective with several sentences. She also used wrong words many times, mixing up simple terms and making her sentences look downright stupid!

Here's one of the worst examples:

 

"Jacob shuddered, then gritted his teeth as hard as his fists."

 

...

what.

Fists do not grit. You cannot grit your fists.

 

Anyway, I'm not going to turn this into a long rant but those are my two cents. Meyer's writing is simply too juvenile and awkward for me to even consider enjoying--even if the plot hadn't been centered around a self-insert with boundary issues--and reading her books felt like slogging through a swamp.

The keyword in my sentence was "nearly." I never said that everyone out there loved the way she wrote. I said in my original post that Meyer has a lot of work to do. I do not think she is a great author; I could name many, many authors that deserve the fame Meyer has received and more. She managed to word her sentences in a way that many females could easily follow, especially those teenagers that hadn't willingly picked up a book in years.

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What I hate: I can't stand how women are portrayed through Bella. I don't know about the other women out there, but I'm not a clumsy, shallow, overly hormonal, idiot. All the characters in the book have very little depth and their actions tend to make no sense. Bella and Edward have nothing in common at all. This is what their relationship is based on: Bella- he's hot and mysterious. I want to be a vampire. Edward: She's weird. I wonder what she's thinking... I have never read about a relationship that was so based off of lust in my life. In real life, that relationship would have never lasted. Then again, in real life, Edward probably would've accidentally killed her.

 

There are so many AMAZING books out there that no one will even try to read, but yet, this series is getting so much attention. This series was good, but not AMAZING, especially after you really think about it. I am no longer a fan; society, honestly, ruined it for me. I can only hope that the Twilight Saga is/was a "gateway book" for more people to start reading other things.

And that's the only thing you hated?

 

Though the person I'm quoting is a fan of Twilight, she raises points I can't help but listen to. I was caught up in the developing hype and, as a sappy love-sick teenager was immensely drawn into this subpar little vampire fanfic, featuring the author and her self-insert Mary Sue, paired up with the most "omg!perfect" boyfriend. Not only this, but she has several other men fawning over her, and she turns up her nose at them. Why?

 

Bella only had eyes for Edward, but only because of 'omg he's HAWT and he sparkles and I just fall in love with guys because of how they look, not because of how they might feel about me! Okay, maybe a little bit, but that's it!!!111".

 

Apparently he was her soul mate or something. I doubt she would have wanted to cheat on him. He actually might have remembered he was a vampire and killed her! And oh goodness gracious, we certainly don't want that to happen, do we?

 

 

 

 

...Anyway, I didn't like the books or the movies. Here's more depth into my reasoning. Feel free to tune my opinions out if you wish.

 

 

For the books (and some for the movies):

 

-The plot was meh, and only made worse by the way Myer wrote each story.

 

-Half of the characters were shallow, unlikable, whiny, and portrayed horribly. The few that you could have liked were dumbed down overtime.

 

(And I could see why Myer inserted her own version of vampire, but it was definitely one of those 'it seemed like a good idea at the time' things. Especially since it didn't work out, and the other abilities added just made it more confusing to grasp on a whole.)

 

And things that the characters did that made sense soon became confusingly wrong.

 

-The climaxes were usually the stupidest parts of the series.

 

-Any reason you may have for hating it. Especially what makes up most of the series.

 

 

For the movies:

 

-Changes did not help anything.

 

-They could have made the movies better, or at least made them about as bad as the books, but they didn't. Sheesh.

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For the movies:

 

-Changes did not help anything.

 

-They could have made the movies better, or at least made them about as bad as the books, but they didn't. Sheesh.

Actually, I've heard that the writers for the movie at least tried. But Meyer vetoed anything that wasn't staying true to her original intent. So... yeah.

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Actually, I've heard that the writers for the movie at least tried. But Meyer vetoed anything that wasn't staying true to her original intent. So... yeah.

While I do not like her works (which is no secret at this point), I can understand her completely. If it was me, I would have acted the same way. I mean, it is my work the one you're representing in the movie, therefore I'm just not going to let the director do whatever changes he might like. After all, most likely it will be my fans watching the movie, and they do expect, after all, at least to see a faithful version of the book.

 

Although Meyers book can do with a whole redoing, tho. But that's a completely different topic.

 

Sometimes, changes might work. See, for example, How To Train Your Dragon, which is loosely based off the books (I haven't read them, but loved the movie, and from what I investigated about them I'm not going to like them much). The author herself was extremely pleased, which is curious.

 

Sometimes, they just don't. Eragon is a great example. The book is not precisely brilliant, but I'm still astounded as how can a director F-up directing a plot that's Star Wars on Middle Earth. They ruined it so much any possibility of making the second movie went down the drain, apart from the fact that critics were... very critic about it, and I don't think it made the money they were expecting either.

 

I'm not expecting to triumph at all in a Meyer fashion with my novels. Mainly because they are adult focused adventures which won't have the reception romance book have, and belong to a rather limited audience. However, if someone was ever interested in making a movie out of them, I would probably refuse. Call me paranoid, but considering most book based movies are pretty bad (with a few exceptions like HP 1 and 2, LOTR, HTTYD, and Just Like Heaven), I do not want such a stain on my profile. I don't have much confidence in directors nowadays, seeing the "wonderful" movies they've been making lately.

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I've never read the books and have no desire to. I find the undying love as well as the fervent hatred for the series tiresome and annoying at this point, though. Twilight is booked (lol pun) as a romance drama centered around young adults... of course it's not going to be the next Dickens. Romance has pretty much always been the "joke" of all the main genres. It's pinned as a pretty easy way to get money in comparison to tightening a noose around your neck if you want to start out with hardcore science fiction. Its targeted audience is usually more 'forgiving' and able to understand key concepts and characters if they're centered around a pliable subject such as love. Romantic concepts translate easily into different languages. Now I'm positive there are some truly fantastic romance novels out there, but the fact remains that it's not a particularly risky genre to write about.

 

If Twilight was instead a science fiction series, to again use that as an example, and still managed to gain enormous amounts of popularity in such a short time, then I could understand such vehement dislike. The writing style, plot devices, characters, etc. would not have been appropriate for such a genre that is known for somewhat prickly fans, and the popularity of it would seem misguided and undeserving (even insulting). But in the end, Twilight is a romance novel and it garners attention from its desired audience. It's not my cup of tea, but it does what it does. Now if only I would stop seeing those ridiculous Twilight tote bags everywhere.

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The first book got a major word of mouth vibe online before the crazy hit.

 

I read it when a net friend asked me to. Got it from the library and thought it was YA fodder with a stalker paranormal boyfriend that was forgiven a lot because he was so beautiful. Didn't think the writing was that great but she nailed teenage angst.

 

I read New Moon but ran out of any steam to read further. Not interested.

 

I watched with amazement as this thing hit Hollywood and middle aged women started chasing the dude who plays Edward and the vids on youtube attacking Stephen King who dared say these books are badly written started turning up.

 

Then I read an analysis of the book by a former Mormon who freaked me totally out. The link is here if you want to check it. Need to be over 14 to get into the site and there is some swearing, so make your own call on that.

 

http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html#cutid1

 

But the parallels between their prophet and the way he is described with the vampire character Edward is scary. It's probably all happening subconsciously for the author, but wow. Food for thought.

 

The Twilight phenomenon now officially confuses me.

 

Vampires used to be cool.

 

xd.png

 

 

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The writing style, plot devices, characters, etc. would not have been appropriate for such a genre that is known for somewhat prickly fans, and the popularity of it would seem misguided and undeserving (even insulting).

I dunno, I still think needing a good four or five dei ex machina to wrap up your series is not appropriate for any genre...

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Sometimes, changes might work. See, for example, How To Train Your Dragon, which is loosely based off the books (I haven't read them, but loved the movie, and from what I investigated about them I'm not going to like them much). The author herself was extremely pleased, which is curious.

 

Sometimes, they just don't. Eragon is a great example. The book is not precisely brilliant, but I'm still astounded as how can a director F-up directing a plot that's Star Wars on Middle Earth. They ruined it so much any possibility of making the second movie went down the drain, apart from the fact that critics were... very critic about it, and I don't think it made the money they were expecting either.

 

I'm not expecting to triumph at all in a Meyer fashion with my novels. Mainly because they are adult focused adventures which won't have the reception romance book have, and belong to a rather limited audience. However, if someone was ever interested in making a movie out of them, I would probably refuse. Call me paranoid, but considering most book based movies are pretty bad (with a few exceptions like HP 1 and 2, LOTR, HTTYD, and Just Like Heaven), I do not want such a stain on my profile. I don't have much confidence in directors nowadays, seeing the "wonderful" movies they've been making lately.

I agree with everything here, mostly.

 

I liked the HTTYD movie, but I didn't like how they changed so much in it. Sure, the books weren't great, but everything was different, except for the fact that they kept four characters from the books in.

 

 

Vampires are still cool. Just not the kind that sparkle.

 

 

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I dunno, I still think needing a good four or five dei ex machina to wrap up your series is not appropriate for any genre...

Lol don't tell me these things, I might actually start becoming interested in reading Twilight out of curiosity. Like how you can't avert your eyes from a horrific car crash even though you're well aware it may blind you...

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Lol don't tell me these things, I might actually start becoming interested in reading Twilight out of curiosity. Like how you can't avert your eyes from a horrific car crash even though you're well aware it may blind you...

Oh, the deus ex machina party isn't really until the very last book (Meyer usually prefers to shrug off conflicts rather than really resolve them), and Breaking Dawn is just a pain to get through. Probably more than morbid curiosity could get you through. xd.png

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I read the first book way before it got popular. And, I found it extremely boring. I normally can read a book of that size in half a day. Twilight took me three months. I just couldn't get behind any of the characters and the story wasn't engaging or romantically sweet. It seemed like it dragged it's feet getting to the climax and the climax only lasted a few pages, which was a big disappointment. Not to mention, I really hate Vampires and the Vampire Story Genre in general (There's only one exception to that- Vivian Vande Velde's Companion of the Night and that's mostly because I love the way she writes and her characters).

 

I didn't like how, if you took out the Vampire aspect and replaced it with any other mythical creature, you would get the same outcome. I mean, Vampirism plays both a large and small part but you could have said they were a pack of Human-Eating Unicorns and it would have made more sense. The sparkle and the Werewolves-are-our-enemy aspect at least.

 

The story could have gone a very awesome way had they thought up what this blogger did: That Bella is a Succubus. (You can read that article here: http://sketchdcomedy.com/2011/12/filling-i...holes-twilight/ )

 

I think my outlook on the book was always: "This is boring". I never thought the book was outright horrid (believe me, I've read much worse) and I think it gets ragged on more then it should when compared to other books in it's genre. I do, however, think a lot more books in this genre deserve to be more recognized then Twilight.

 

Of course, i'm talking ONLY about the first book.

I hear the fourth book is disaster crack on wheels.

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