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Twilight

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Bella Swan, by contrast, is a much more honest (though cringe-inducing) representation of adolescence. She doesn't know who she is or what she wants. She's clumsy, obtuse, and aggravating in her helplessness. She is also entirely internal, almost alienatingly so

 

I find this insulting as a young woman fresh out of teenage. I'm 21.

 

Before I go on, I'd like to point out that yes, this happens during teenage years-hell, I've had my share of bad relationships myself. But first, I was 14 at the time said relationship happened- Bella's 17, and the gap between the level of mental maturity between 14 and 17 is, I'd say, immense. When I was 17, I looked back on the said relationship with horror. It's called growing up! It's insulting because the author of the article just looks over that maturing process and treats teenage girls as if they don't have the brains to go through the process. Second, Bella never had a relationship before-but then did she not have any female friends? That seems very un-typical of a teenage girl although the article states that "Bella is how we were when we were teenagers"-teenage girls, stereotypically and in real life, form cliques or at least a small group of friends and talk about other people's relationships. It's a vital part of how you mature from a social clutz to a well developed person. Even if you don't have any friends (as Bella seems to) you get to hear about so-and-so's-breakup some way or another. You LEARN from them. You try not to repeat those mistakes. There's a very real stigma against girls whose breakups were horrible-yes, people comfort you but your story makes for a round of happy chitchat during lunchtime. And friends share advice about whom to date, what to look out for, etc etc. I can't believe that during her 17 years of life Bella never had that process, nor can I believe that the writer of the article overlooked that fact. Lastly-teenage girls, no matter what you may think of your personal teenage years, are NOT helpless creatures who are dazed and confused. We are not damsels in distress-quite the opposite in fact. You'll notice this if you spend an hour watching a power play between different girls-all the moves are calculated, judged, weighed and finally carried out. This is also inherent when you see a girl talking with a boy that she likes/dislikes. We are capable of more than sitting around waiting for a guy to ask me to go out, and through very subtle means as well.

 

I could go on and rant, but that'd be too long.

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That's just... wow!

 

The sporking pretty much covers all my thoughts on the article.

 

I haven't followed Buffy (I'm more Supernatural), but I do have seen Juno and thought it was a wonderful movie.

I've also never read Ender's game, but I'm eager to do so and will as soon as I'm over with Dresden Files.

 

Which brings me to Karrin Murphy. I absolutely adore that character, she's a strong, hard woman who knows what she wants, and yet has enough depth to be faithfully loyal to those she loves, and eager to do what must be done and face the consecuences, however unfair they might seem.

I guess Murphy is another tiny man.

 

I don't know what else to say, other than I felt insulted. I love driving, I love cars, reason why I chose proffesional driver as a career, and I LOVE it. Why should I consider sitting at home raising kids when neither I, nor my boyfriend like them? When we'd rather travel throughout the country to conformation shows with our dogs than strolling through the park with the baby? Why should I stop going out running or cicling with my pets when it is good for me and for them?

Why would that make me less of a woman?

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Murph would kick this professor's ass. Or shoot her. Or...I'll stop as I'm not sure how far you are into the Dresden Files. Suffice to say, I adore Karrin as well and she's part of my inspiration for the main character of the book I'm working on.

 

Supernatural has Jo and Ellen. They would also kick the professor's ass.

 

Another female character I've read recently is Trixa of Rob Thurman's Trickster series. Trixa doesn't take censorkip.gif from anyone and she continuously kicks ass.

 

And given that I just heard Anne McCaffrey died, I'll thrown in Lessa from Pern for good measure. Or, to go back to actual teenage characters, Menolly from Harper Hall.

Edited by terioncalling

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Murph would kick this professor's ass. Or shoot her. Or...I'll stop as I'm not sure how far you are into the Dresden Files. Suffice to say, I adore Karrin as well.

 

Supernatural has Jo and Ellen. They would also kick the professor's ass.

 

Another female character I've read recently is Trixa of Rob Thurman's Trickster series. Trixa doesn't take censorkip.gif from anyone and she continuously kicks ass.

 

And given that I just heard Anne McCaffrey died, I'll thrown in Lessa from Pern for good measure. Or, to go back to actual teenage characters, Menolly from Harper Hall.

I'm into the beggining of Small Favor, so yeah, I've seen her do some pretty awesome things.

 

Forgot about Jo and Ellen. I was so angry about what happened to them, they were also pretty awesome characters.

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I'm into the beggining of Small Favor, so yeah, I've seen her do some pretty awesome things.

 

Forgot about Jo and Ellen. I was so angry about what happened to them, they were also pretty awesome characters.

Oh, the example was going to be fine then. Chainsaw on the plant monster/Chlorofiend from whichever book that is. For some reason I want to say Summer Knight but I don't think it's that early in series.

 

I hated the way they went out too but DAMN they were awesome. I was a little wary about liking Jo some of the time but I loved Ellen from that first introduction.

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That was Dead Beat I think.

 

I pretty much liked Jo from the beggining. Although I had trouble understanding her (I'm not native english speaker) xd.png.

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In think any heroine you can name is better than Bella and could give her beats- Hermoine, Valkreye Caine, Amy Pond, Ziva David... Anyone. (Okay, I included one grown woman and a Mosaad agent. So sue me. I hate Bella. wink.gif ))

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would pretty much sum up my opinion of Twilight. (I actually made it my ringtone, oh yes)

 

.... Most of what I think has already been said somewhere in the last 72 pages or so. xd.png

Ah well. Let the fangirls rage, for all I care.

Edited by digipup

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The one thing I'm not understanding is how she says that female character who's vengeful and sexually active and rides a motorcycle and all that is essentially a man because those are 'male coded' traits...

 

Does that then mean that Harry Potter and Albus Dumbledore are essentially female? Dumbledore always spoke of the power of love and forgiveness over hate and vengeance. He gave second chances. Though Harry didn't understand at first, in the end he gives Voldemort the opportunity to redeem himself and 'try for some remorse.' Voldemort was responsible for every terrible thing that ever happened in Harry's life, but Harry still gave him a second chance, a chance to heal his decimated soul.

If seeking revenge is male-coded, then granting forgiveness would likely be female-coded, no? So Harry's a girl.

SURPRISE.

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The one thing I'm not understanding is how she says that female character who's vengeful and sexually active and rides a motorcycle and all that is  essentially a man because those are 'male coded' traits...

 

Does that then mean that Harry Potter and Albus Dumbledore are essentially female? Dumbledore always spoke of the power of love and forgiveness over hate and vengeance. He gave second chances. Though Harry didn't understand at first, in the end he gives Voldemort the opportunity to redeem himself and 'try for some remorse.' Voldemort was responsible for every terrible thing that ever happened in Harry's life, but Harry still gave him a second chance, a chance to heal his decimated soul.

If seeking revenge is male-coded, then granting forgiveness would likely be female-coded, no? So Harry's a girl.

SURPRISE.

Didn't think abuot it that way, but I completely agree.

 

So a typically legal-good character is a woman in essence? say like Drizzt for example.

 

Edit; And does it not offend you guys to be considered vicious machines of vengenance?

Edited by DragonNighthowler

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You know, that was just wrong in so many ways that I don't even want to comment on it, other then to say that while quiet, demure women are women, so are the ones at the other side of the spectrum.

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Which brings me to Karrin Murphy. I absolutely adore that character, she's a strong, hard woman who knows what she wants, and yet has enough depth to be faithfully loyal to those she loves, and eager to do what must be done and face the consecuences, however unfair they might seem.

I guess Murphy is another tiny man.

 

"Tiny, but Fierce!" wink.gif

 

 

The one thing I'm not understanding is how she says that female character who's vengeful and sexually active and rides a motorcycle and all that is  essentially a man because those are 'male coded' traits...

 

Does that then mean that Harry Potter and Albus Dumbledore are essentially female?

 

Dumbledore is gay. JK Rowling wrote him as a gay man... so I guess you could say that Dumbledore has more feminine traits than a straight guy.

 

TD (butting out now)

Edited by Twilightdreamer1979

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Sexuality =/= gender

Desiring romantic and/or sexual relationships with men does not make you effeminate. Much less female.

Edited by Stromboli

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Dumbledore is gay.  JK Rowling wrote him as a gay man... so I guess you could say that Dumbledore has more feminine traits than a straight guy.

What that is just wrong being gay does NOT make you more feminine. Honestly where are you getting all these ideas from? So normal men are all tree-crunching, rock-eating adrenalin fuelled machos? Hell no. I can think of plenty hetero guys in fiction that are gentle, from Faramir(lotr) to Aang(the last airbender). I can think of plenty gentle guys in real life who are hetero.

 

*Shakes head slowly*

Edited by ylangylang

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What that is just wrong being gay does NOT make you less feminine. Honestly where are you getting all these ideas from? So normal men are all tree-crunching, rock-eating adrenalin fuelled machos? Hell no. I can think of plenty hetero guys in fiction that are gentle, from Faramir(lotr) to Aang(the last airbender). I can think of plenty gentle guys in real life who ate hetero.

 

*Shakes head slowly*

This.

 

This so much.

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This.

 

This so much.

Oops typo I meant more feminine....it says less feminine but I meant that being gay does not make you more feminine. Ah well, you got the gist.

Edited by ylangylang

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Oops typo I meant more feminine....it says less feminine but I meant that being gay does not make you more feminine. Ah well, you got the gist.

Lol. didn't even realize the typo. I'm starting to think I read concepts instead of sentences xd.png.

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Thanks, dragonNighthowler smile.gif

 

 

Another thing that I find ridiculous about separate gender roles and you being a 'tiny man' if you like motorcycles is that why can you not be both? For example I like stuff that the writer would probably think of as masculine such as motorcycles, martial arts, sports, lotr and other high fantasy, metal music, leather, debating, fishing and so on. I also like what she calls feminine things such as cooking, dresses, animals, being in love, decorating, dessert, jewelry, gardening, chamber music(or is that masculine too? Honestly I have no idea), and so on. 

 

Does that make me a gender-confused freak of nature or a woman trying to be a man? I would like a response from her. I would probably be labelled as not a real woman or a poor confused little sweetheart. Add the fact that I am living in a conservative third world country and I would get something like, "poor darling...you are trying so hard, just let go."

 

I also wonder what she thinks about misogynistic practices that some third world countries have, like female circumcision or honor killings. Are those justified too? After all, it is what is needed to keep women demure and in the house. *sarcasm* 

Edited by ylangylang

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hey... I didn't mean any offence.. it was supposed to be .. oh never mind.

 

I'm "getting all (?!) these ideas" from my life.

Please don't shake your head at me, just because I didn't explain myself very well.

 

no offence was intened. I apologise if I didn't explain myself very well/at all.

Would you prefer that I delete my post and butt out of your conversation?

 

TD.x.

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Nah, you're fine. I'm sure you didn't mean it the way it ended up coming across.

It's just that being gay doesn't mean you're basically a woman any more than riding motorcycle and hacking computers would make you essentially a man. And, even though he was gay, Dumbledore never came off as particularly effeminate to me.

 

 

But I feel like we're getting off the topic of Twilight. ^-^;

 

 

ETA: Found this through memebase.

Do people not know how math works? Really. >.>

Edited by Stromboli

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9000 internets to the commenters. Particularly that second one because:

 

For my closing statement dear ignorant journalist; I’m sorry, I can’t hear you over how epic the Harry Potter theme park in Universal Studios is.

 

Because it IS epic.

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hey... I didn't mean any offence.. it was supposed to be .. oh never mind.

 

I'm "getting all (?!) these ideas" from my life.

Please don't shake your head at me, just because I didn't explain myself very well.

 

no offence was intened. I apologise if I didn't explain myself very well/at all.

Would you prefer that I delete my post and butt out of your conversation?

 

TD.x.

Oh, okay, sorry about that smile.gif I'm just a bit touchy on the issue of how homosexuals/heterosexuals are represented as. And please don't erase it, leave it so that future commenters may see it as a ... chat for thought? IDK.

 

btw, someone said this:

‎"What do you mean, sparkling vampire?"

"It was caused by the darkest form of magic, Harry. Mary-Sues. "

 

So I did a voiceover. Sorry that the sound is so fuzzy and everything.

http://vocaroo.com/?media=v3BKZwNjq1XPRDaXB xd.png

Edited by ylangylang

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hey... I didn't mean any offence.. it was supposed to be .. oh never mind.

 

I'm "getting all (?!) these ideas" from my life.

Please don't shake your head at me, just because I didn't explain myself very well.

 

no offence was intened. I apologise if I didn't explain myself very well/at all.

Would you prefer that I delete my post and butt out of your conversation?

 

TD.x.

I'm obtuse. I'm sorry but I don't get where you said anything offensive. smile.gif

 

This is quiet how conversations tend to go.

 

BTW, on a sided note, I happened to see an article in the news yesterday night where, here, in Spain, most women expect men to do everything for them while men expect women to be docile and gentle.

Which is pretty much what Twilight represents AND, funny enough, in a country where readers are considered weirdos, it is as well one of the best selling books.

 

I have a friend who deffends Twlight (althought she admits it is not a good book) by stating it made people read. Quiet frankly, her friend doesn't get anywhere near a book even if her life depended on it, yet she read Twlight.... and nothing else. That's not something to celebrate, since she is practically unable to read anything else because it doesn't resemble Twlight.

Having a plot, full 3D characters and good writing tends to do that I guess.

 

Edit; LOL. Hadn't seen that trailer. Found myself enjoying the music. Anyone knows where it is from? Because I highly doubt it is from the movie.

Edited by DragonNighthowler

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The main character is an empty shell of a girl.

She has no backbone and no personality whatsoever.

 

The only reason she's the main focus of the entire series is because some sparkly man-god thinks she smells good and gets all obsessed with her.

 

Lusty things ensure.

 

</series>

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