A marker/symbol to show described dragons

[Nakase]

I can't see it D: how do I fix it?

[CaptainHarrie]

It might have something to do with the browser you're using?

[oooopoooo]

oooopoooo, you left out the symbols that TJ suggested.

 

✍ looks effective enough to me!

no, thats already the symbol for a frozen hatchling

well, in IE it is.

EDIT: i forgot to look in FF.

you are right, i forgot them

Edited May 12, 2009 by oooopoooo

[Shszha]

Well, for me (Opera) it is a hand holding a pencil. Maybe you should try a different browser- for various reasons, by the way.

 

I also support the idea of a symbol indicating descriptions. I am sure I alreadymissed some well-written ones because I did not have the time to look at each dragon on a scroll.

So please, implement this feature!

 

Ooops, forgot to state which I prefer: ✍

Edited May 12, 2009 by Shszha

[oooopoooo]

the options are:

quills (TJ doesnt like them)

Paragraph symbol (¶)

alpha (α)

triangle (but im not sure if its like the squeres)

circle (same like triangles)

✒

✑

✐

✏

✎

✍ (i prefer this one, too!)

remember, the last 6 arnt that large, they could be this large tho if TJ implements this.

 

if for the last 6 you see only squeres, download FireFox and look again with it.

Edited May 12, 2009 by oooopoooo

[Dovealove]

It doesn't even work in firefox for me. :/ Honestly, I think an image is fine. If it's a black pixel etching reduced and compressed, it's not going to do much, right? And it's so awful to just not be able to see it, and it really messes it up for us. :/

 

[pinkgothic]

IE8, Opera and Chrome all show it fine, too, under Vista.

 

Please, please, please don't tell people what browser to use. If they want to use IE7 or IE6 (maybe they prefer the interface; privately, I used IE6 for the longest time because I don't like any browser's take on tabs but for Chrome), that's their right; not to mention that if the glyph doesn't show up properly there's just as many people you aren't reaching with your plea. "Tough luck, get a different browser," is not a good webdesign/-development mentality.

 

Anyway, here's a screencap for those who's browsers don't show it right:

 

 

@Dovealove: You might be missing a font.

 

[ Edit - screencap blends in too well. ]

 

Edit II:

 

Honestly, I think an image is fine. If it's a black pixel etching reduced and compressed, it's not going to do much, right?

Yeah, this.

 

It'd just be one more load for dragcave for the duration of the browser's cache. Even if you have the symbol on your scroll multiple times, your browser will only load the image once. If it's an image with a tiny palette (black and transparent, anyone?), it'll be very little data to transfer. Not as little as a glyph, but if it shows in all browsers on all systems, everyone wins?

 

Edit III:

 

Just to explain the thing with the font, for the curious: Unicode, which is basically what you're invoking here, frequently forces computers to use font substitution. If there's no font on your harddrive to render the glyphs with, then it doesn't matter what browser you use, they won't show.

Edited May 12, 2009 by pinkgothic

[bbik]

@Dovealove: You might be missing a font.

This. For all of you who can't see it. Missing characters/symbols has to do with what fonts are installed on your computer, not what browser you are using. Browser just determines what replacement character you see instead (question marks, squares, nothing...). Or at least, that's how I've always understood it.

 

Though, I thought unicode was unicode because it was part of a baseline that everyone could see without adding anything extra... So I'm a bit at a loss as to why those symbols aren't showing up for people.

 

 

Edit: Heh. Sniped by an edit while I typed.

Edited May 12, 2009 by bbik

[pinkgothic]

Edit:  Heh.  Sniped by an edit while I typed.

 

For what it's worth, I prefer your explanation.

 

Just one thing: "not what browser you are using" - technically true, except IIRC IE6 (as also claimed on the wiki page I linked to) doesn't support font substitution. I could boot into Windows 2000 to check?

 

As for Unicode working from a baseline, not at all. Unicode strives to display all characters in all languages and then some. Very few fonts (uh. Yeah! Basically none!) can claim to have each glyph, and those that [almost] do pretty much without a doubt needed tweaking when Unicode was formalised. Unicode is a monster!

 

Edit: Whee. Just booted into Win 2000. IE6 indeed doesn't support font substitution. Unfortunately I can't check for IE7, but I'm inclined to believe the wiki page that it does.

 

Edit II: Screencap so everyone else knows what it looks like:

 

Edited May 12, 2009 by pinkgothic

[bbik]

... except IIRC IE6 (as also claimed on the wiki page I linked to) doesn't support font substitution. I could boot into Windows 2000 to check?

It's Microsoft. Assume the worst.

 

As for Unicode working from a baseline, not at all. Unicode strives to display all characters in all languages and then some. Very few fonts (uh. Yeah! Basically none!) can claim to have each glyph, and those that [almost] do pretty much without a doubt needed tweaking when Unicode was formalised. Unicode is a monster!

Yeah, I think the substitution part was why I thought it was a baseline of some sort. Mixed the two up, or didn't know that existed, or something. But now that that's cleared up... Teamwork for a comprehensible explanation!

 

 

<joke soapbox>

Everyone needs to go out and install a dozen new fonts right now, until they find one that works! The world will end if you don't! You can keep your preferred browser (for now), but get to it with those installations!

</joke>

[pinkgothic]

<obligatory rooting for the unlikely underdogs>

 

It's Microsoft.  Assume the worst.

 

Dude. Chances are we'd not have half the internet technologies today without Microsoft. Seriously. I know it's hip and in and trendy to hate them, but short of them committing marketing harakiri every once in a while, there's very little substantial reason to. >.>

 

</obligatory rooting for the unlikely underdogs>

 

Um.

 

*braces for onslaught of stoooones*

 

Edited May 12, 2009 by pinkgothic

[oooopoooo]

so, whould we look for more suggestions, or start a poll?

by the way, i mostly use IE6, and i saw squeres instead of unicode(snow, the 6 here...)

when i see a squere, i look with FF, and i see the real stuff, not squeres.

so, list of browsers that can see the unicode:

FF

IE8

opera

chrome

... (might be more)

[pinkgothic]

 

so, list of browsers that can see the unicode:

FF

IE8

opera

chrome

... (might be more)

 

IE6 'sees the unicode', as you put it, it just doesn't do font substitution, meaning it checks the display font for the glyphs, notices the font doesn't have them, and then does nothing; whereas other browsers check the display font for the glyphs, notice the font doesn't have them, and then look at other fonts.

 

Anyway, to extend your list, according to Wikipedia, IE7 can.

 

Checking with Safari for Windows yields that Safari for Windows can.

 

But! Remember that even if you have the right browsers, it depends on if you have a font to display those glyphs. While people who use IE6 (apparently just under every fifth person) can be helped by wrapping the glyph in a font-family <span> that displays the glyph, you're still powerless to stop people from being unable to view it because they don't have the font, like Dovealove.

 

[ Edit for text flow. ]

Edited May 12, 2009 by pinkgothic

[Svataben]

Yay, the idea didn't die away!

 

Anyway, I'm not too particular about the specific symbol myself, just so long as it is logical. For instance, I like the pen TJ suggested. Everyone knows that a pencil means writing, so it's very suitable. Stuff like that.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Svataben

[BettyxMe]

I can't see any of the symbols. They show as boxes

I'd rather not see a symbol than boxes, so I vote no. :x

[pinkgothic]

I can't see any of the symbols. They show as boxes

I'd rather not see a symbol than boxes, so I vote no. :x

 

Yeah, that problem's been beat dead, really. Take a look at the screencap I posted? There's a serious thought about making one of those into a small image as a marker.

 

Edit: Actually, let me repost it for your convenience:

 

 

Edited May 12, 2009 by pinkgothic

[BettyxMe]

Heh, those are cute. X3

 

/switches her vote to yes.

[Nakase]

I have IE7 and I only see boxes

Being forced to use a certain browser to see a specific font...it's a real turn off for the game :\

[bbik]

Being forced to use a certain browser to see a specific font...

Look a few posts below where the symbols were first posted:

 

For all of you who can't see it:

 

The missing characters/symbols are based on what fonts are installed on your computer, not what browser you are using.  Browser just determines what replacement character you see instead (question marks, squares, nothing...).

 

To make it even more visible:

 

The missing symbols are not caused by your browser!

 

Go back and read the thread for the rest of the details.

[oooopoooo]

I have IE7 and I only see boxes

Being forced to use a certain browser to see a specific font...it's a real turn off for the game :\

i know, but its already on.

like the frozen unicode?

i see it as a box in IE6 but as snow in FF.

so, im gonna look for places you can download the fonts to see them.

[Nakase]

bbik,

I did read the whole thread, and have been following it. I didn't completely understand it then, that's why I made a post. There is no need to use all caps...thanks for the qoute anyways. >:\

 

oooopoooo,

If you find a place where people can download the speacial font, please post a link <3 I for one would be glad to take the time to download it instead of using FF

 

 

[Dovealove]

Guys, I REALLY think that having to download something additional for something that would become part of the baseline game is not a good idea. Is it really worth irritating literal hundreds with illegible glyphs in exchange for a tiny bit of saved space? It's one image. I'll do a little one, just to show you.

 

[pinkgothic]

What Dovealove said.

 

Lemme make a little image version. *heads off to tinker, will edit post when done*

 

Edit:

 

 

Technical info:

GIF, anti-aliased to base scroll background, transparency.

Palette is 5 colours.

File size is 184 bytes.

Image dimensions are 24 x 19.

Edited May 13, 2009 by pinkgothic

[oooopoooo]

but TJ doesnt want an image as a marker, he wants a unicode.

did the squeres ever bother anyone before?

hold on, ill bring a screenie of what i mean.

[Completely Different]

I love this idea! It would certainly make it more likely for people to look at dragon descriptions.

 

Although I love the little quills, I think I agree that unicode would be better. One little picture on everyone scrolls becomes a lot of little pictures. And it makes the sight that much slower.

 

I think the hand holding a pen puts the point across quite nicely.