Award a prize dragon with each trophy.

[Cireth]

Absolutely, yes.

 

Option 3 for Platinum.

 

Now excuse me I need to go get 89,000 dragons so I can have 16 of each Prize Dragon and breed PB 5G Even Gens of Each Prize Breed. 😉

[zippuzzle]

While I agree the luck-based implementation is rough, I don't think I'm on board with giving another bonus incentive tied to trophies. We already get the extra space for eggs/hatchlings as a reward for the collecting play style. So, no support from me to adding Prizes to the trophies, but yes for sure to making them more accessible in a different way. I don't want to derail, since it wasn't the initial topic, but I saw someone mention unlocking them in the market, and I feel like treating them the same as the other rares might not be a bad idea? I don't support adding them as another bonus specifically to trophies though (even if I'd love to instantly get two Prizes <3)

[PrincessLucy]

The discussion on this is all well and good, but, ultimately, it is up to TJ, so I don't think anything will happen any time soon with this issue.

 

Good luck to all on tonight's raffle.

Edited February 28, 2023 by PrincessLucy

[KageSora]

7 hours ago, seventeendeer said:

EDIT: Oh yeah, also just gonna add here, in response to the "pushing people away" part - this is not at all a personal dig at you, or anyone else in particular, but I do find it a bit odd that there's apparently a section of players who get so frustrated with "exclusive" releases that they feel demotivated to continue to play. From alt sweets to early holiday CB's, this game has always had exclusivity as a consistent feature.

 

Well, you see, it's because DC as a whole does not cater heavily to the exclusive side of things.  Especially not since the addition of the holiday biome to allow old CB holidays to be obtained.  A tiny handful of exclusive dragons is one thing, but continuing to add more drives people away who are sick of exclusivity and FOMO being driving factors in a ton of games of all sorts nowadays.

 

Also feels a little weird to try and treat an exclusive that was given specifically as compensation to users who suffered losses from a nasty site issue the same way as other exclusives.  Those were a specific compensation gift.  Those should be treated as their own thing.

Edited February 28, 2023 by KageSora

[schenanigans]

8 hours ago, seventeendeer said:

EDIT: Oh yeah, also just gonna add here, in response to the "pushing people away" part - this is not at all a personal dig at you, or anyone else in particular, but I do find it a bit odd that there's apparently a section of players who get so frustrated with "exclusive" releases that they feel demotivated to continue to play. From alt sweets to early holiday CB's, this game has always had exclusivity as a consistent feature. I can't help but wonder what causes some people to start playing a game, only to then go "this thing that's always been here needs to change, or I'm walking right back out that door." I always liked the game the way it was, which was why I stuck around for a decade and a half, so it's just not really something I can relate to, I guess. Again, mostly saying this to explain why I think platinum prizes would fit in just fine, not because I think I can change anyone's mind about it who feel strongly about these things.

 

I have been around for over a decade; I didn't just start playing and decide something was unfair and got mad about it. I'm not the only person who feels the way I do, and especially not the only one who has been around as long as if not longer than I have who feels this way. The thing with the few CB exclusives DC did have was that they just didn't contribute anything to the game. I don't particularly see a not super messy 6G holly being considered a "lucky catch" engaging or rewarding gameplay. If we had never gotten the CB holiday biome I would have just kept on trucking and ignoring the breeds I couldn't access easily myself. 

 

That being said, exclusives are actually a major factor as to why I've avoided another game that has had some AMAZING sprites done in the past by some of my favorite artists: Magistream. If I start a game, or am interested in getting started, and I find a dragon or creature or sprite that I'm in love with and was the catalyst for me to start looking into it, only to find out I'm SoL just because I didn't stumble across it in time? What does that do for the game at all other than drive players away? I guess it's just preying on the FOMO of its more active players.

 

It only makes things easier for me, and more enjoyable for me, if other players are able to help me with what I want to do. Exclusivity has never been a driving factor for DC and it has steered away from that even further, and I'm forever grateful. 

 

That being said, I acknowledge that trophy locked new prize is not the same as "I can never get this ever no matter how hard I try" (which supporting previous exclusives contradicts your previous point about grit and determination), but I do still find it an unhealthy way to release something new. 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by schenanigans

[seventeendeer]

3 hours ago, KageSora said:

 

Well, you see, it's because DC as a whole does not cater heavily to the exclusive side of things.  Especially not since the addition of the holiday biome to allow old CB holidays to be obtained.  A tiny handful of exclusive dragons is one thing, but continuing to add more drives people away who are sick of exclusivity and FOMO being driving factors in a ton of games of all sorts nowadays.

 

Also feels a little weird to try and treat an exclusive that was given specifically as compensation to users who suffered losses from a nasty site issue the same way as other exclusives.  Those were a specific compensation gift.  Those should be treated as their own thing.

 

3 hours ago, schenanigans said:

 

I have been around for over a decade; I didn't just start playing and decide something was unfair and got mad about it. I'm not the only person who feels the way I do, and especially not the only one who has been around as long as if not longer than I have who feels this way. The thing with the few CB exclusives DC did have was that they just didn't contribute anything to the game. I don't particularly see a not super messy 6G holly being considered a "lucky catch" engaging or rewarding gameplay. If we had never gotten the CB holiday biome I would have just kept on trucking and ignoring the breeds I couldn't access easily myself. 

 

That being said, exclusives are actually a major factor as to why I've avoided another game that has had some AMAZING sprites done in the past by some of my favorite artists: Magistream. If I start a game, or am interested in getting started, and I find a dragon or creature or sprite that I'm in love with and was the catalyst for me to start looking into it, only to find out I'm SoL just because I didn't stumble across it in time? What does that do for the game at all other than drive players away? I guess it's just preying on the FOMO of its more active players.

 

It only makes things easier for me, and more enjoyable for me, if other players are able to help me with what I want to do. Exclusivity has never been a driving factor for DC and it has steered away from that even further, and I'm forever grateful. 

 

That being said, I acknowledge that trophy locked new prize is not the same as "I can never get this ever no matter how hard I try" (which supporting previous exclusives contradicts your previous point about grit and determination), but I do still find it an unhealthy way to release something new. 

 

 

Lumping these two together, since my thoughts on both are the same-

 

I think you're both misunderstanding my love of the early days' completely 100% unobtainable breeds (old holidays, alt sweets, the first set of prizes) for an argument in favor of adding that specific mechanic back in. I was comparing the potential rare platinum prizes to unobtainable breeds because they'd be so much less unforgiving than those oldies (as schenanigans says in that last bit of text). My point is that if some people absolutely hate the idea of some players getting something they themselves don't have entirely equal access to, it's just a little surprising to me that they're on the "CB hollies were simply out of stock for years and even finding their messy offspring in the AP felt like stumbling on a diamond in a gravel pit" website (which yes, actually was super fun to me, I kid you not! I have great memories of hanging out with other players telling tales of "having seen a Holly in the AP earlier", the hype was real and this early group of players I was with didn't expect anything else, since it was exactly what we'd signed up for! If we'd intensely disliked the original holiday release model, we would have simply played something else).

 

As for combatting FOMO, I've already argued in favor of being able to get another CB prize of one's choosing for every 1000 dragons, meaning people can take their time and work toward getting CB platinum prizes whenever they want to and feel it would be fun for them. But DC is also a competitive game (it's right there in the 70+ people climbing over each other trying to click the same uncommon in the biomes, even today), so I just can't see why we have to give no one rare stuff, on the off chance someone who doesn't have any yet wanders into the trading center and gets sad.

 

I just think people who put in more hours should get more stuff, like any other video game.

 

Continuing to make CB holidays unobtainable after their first run would play into FOMO, that's true, and even though I liked it very much personally, I don't support adding something like that back in, because it is predatory game design. However, simply giving people a goal to work toward does not play into FOMO. Giving players who play more hours stuff that players who play less don't get does not play into FOMO. Giving players who play more an advantage in the trading center is not predatory design, it just rewards them fairly for the time they've spent.

 

Ultimately, what constitutes "destabilizing the trading economy" depends heavily on what each of us consider an unstable economy. I thought the original prize set's effect on the trading economy was too much, but I'm completely cool with how Stats have been shaking things up, for example. But if someone doesn't want any upheaval in how the economy is right now, or wants to even it out even further, then yeah, platinum prizes would be too much. I just don't feel that way, so I'm in favor of platinum prizes. Personal preference plays in too much here for us to be able to agree with each other when we come from such wildly different perspectives on what is fundamentally enjoyable about this game.

 

(As for why I mentioned alt sweets, they were simply another thing only given to a few players as a one-time thing early on. Simply pointing to all the times in early DC history where the site had no mercy on the exclusivity side of things. Not gunning for nuance on that specific point, just pointing out that the vibes were different.)

 

(Also, schenanigans, like I said, please don't take my opinion as a personal attack, or even an attack on the group of people who feel that way. Like I said, it's simply a stance I can't relate to and I was explaining why! You have every right to feel the way you do, I just don't agree and I struggle to understand the mentality due to my own subjective experiences, and that's okay. You can stick to your guns and I can stick to mine, doesn't mean anyone has to shoot. ^^)

 

Anyway, I think I've said everything I really can on the subject. I think my arguments make perfect sense, both as self-contained video game design theory, and looking at DC's specific history. To quote Princess Lucy-

 

5 hours ago, PrincessLucy said:

The discussion on this is all well and good, but, ultimately, it is up to TJ, so I don't think anything will happen any time soon with this issue.

 

TJ can read back this thread and see which perspective he relates to more, if any. I've given my two cents, that's all I can do as a player. What matters most to me is that the prize dragons we already have can be distributed to more players, anything beyond that would just be icing on the cake for me. I hope TJ will consider OP's main suggestion, and I wish everyone else in here good luck on figuring out the specifics! ❤️

 

(To be clear: I will not be responding further to this thread, not because I'm ignoring anyone or upset with anyone, only because I feel I've elaborated on my thoughts the best that I can. Anyone is free to contact me on PM if there's something you really want to tell me, and of course you can always argue against my points for the sake of others reading this thread. )

[Fuzzbucket]

8 hours ago, UnicornMaiden said:

Speaking as someone who does have a CB prize, I would LOVE if the prizes were more plentiful and more readily available.

 

2G prizes don't command nearly as much trading value as they used to, and that's fine. Yes, I've had the advantage of getting some good trades by producing 2G gold Shimmers for people who wanted them, but I've also had 2Gs that sit in the trading hub for days with no offers. I don't see an issue with making the eggs more accessible for people to get what they want.

 

On that note, I don't understand why some people want to keep the prize numbers low. Why shouldn't someone be able to collect a dozen or more CB prizes? There's no scroll limit on them. I understand the idea of wanting to keep them "special." They have a unique mechanic, and I want to see that uniqueness preserved, but keeping them unique doesn't need to mean keeping them exclusive or even rare. The suggestions here of having them be earned through collection milestones preserves their specialness.

 

There are also a lot of advantages to making them more plentiful. I love building lineages, but even having a CB to breed and use for trading it is extremely difficult and time-consuming to get the 2Gs that I need for certain projects. Having more CBs available would open up so many possibilities.

 

(For example, how beautiful would it be to have a silver and gold Shimmer checker? Right now I doubt if it would even be possible to build since you would need at least four people who all have a CB gold Shimmer and a CB silver Shimmer and have all the golds one sex and all the silvers the other. This arrangement probably doesn't even exist right now, and yet it's not too difficult to find checkers of other rare breed combinations.)

 

I'm all for their being more plentiful - just not in favour of another breed. There are 6 already, and you'd need 12 (mixed sex !) to start big building projects. Even now, every new holiday release leads to all sorts of scrambling to build lineages, because of the 2 CB limit (which I don't mind much, though 4 would be nice....)

 

8 hours ago, UnicornMaiden said:

(Though I admit I intensely dislike the pink Sapphire mechanic because I can't keep things I've bred if I want the color.)

 

I have to agree there.... It IS frustrating. But I do get Infi's reasoning.

[Jazeki]

I'm with Schen and Fuzz (and others here). I've been playing since 2009. I just won Pwooflesheepie, a golden prize, after a billion years. I paid arms and legs for long-lineaged hollies and prizes to get the breeds for completion purposes.

 

I don't have an issue with adding more prizes. I've supported tons of suggestions for adding more prizes into the pool. The problem I have (like others) is adding a totally new exclusive thing that is not readily available. I don't mind things like Little Pancakes or Spriter Alts, but I'm not so much a fan of adding mostly unobtainable things that just widen the gap.  That's why the removal of honorable mentions is a sore spot for me. Very few people have them.

 

But, like Schen mentioned, we are mostly evolving and moving away from things that are exclusive to a tiny amount of players. I'd rather have nothing happen with Platinum trophies or we get the option to choose a color on our own. I could ideally have 13 additional prizes right off the bat. So, again, my concern is not "oh no more CB prizes." My concern is the addition of a new top-tier prize just to have one and then to claim that it's evening the playing field for everyone. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Jazeki

[StormBirdRising]

I love this idea in its entirety .  It would be fabulous. 👍

[KittyHawkMC]

I saw the title for this thread and instantly thought "oh no, that's a bad idea, prizes are supposed to be unique!" but reading through, I've changed my mind. I don't want to go back and necro any posts here, but someone mentioned the Holiday biomes and how they were implemented after multiple years of being unable to get CBs if you were new to the game. I think that's a good way to look at the prize mechanic; with every new, active player, the raffle becomes more of an unattainable dream. There's always the fact that, every month, six people are lucky enough to get a prize, but I feel like the userbase has grown enough that maybe implementing a new way of getting them would be a nice touch, whether through market unlocks or trophy rewards... although I am against an entirely new prize breed

[StarlightLion]

Is it really only six players??? I've been operating under the belief it's more like fifteen per breed - not exactly, I think there was some kind of uneven split across the colour variants with gold being the lowest number of winners - but if it's only one per unique variant per month that's so astronomically unlikely to win that they might as well still be unobtainable. Which really only strengthens the argument for creating a reliable method of obtainment, even if they're kept very rare.

That also makes the existence of multi-prize owners even more hecked up imo. It's not the fault of the prize-winners at all, but it only fuels the imbalance when, as many people have said, there's no need for these dragons to be so rare. The demand for 2Gs isn't even there except for specific breeders (like me, for example) after specific pairings or for stuff like Secret Santa, where it's usually still specific pairings from specific variants. They're not as overwhelmingly valuable as they have been historically so there's no damage done to the wealth of the prize-owners if they're mass distributed. Even if we went with the most generous method and some players ended up with like 20 prizes.

 

I do still think a new prize variant would cause brief economic upset, even if it was implemented in a way that ended up with a lot of them in circulation (for example the platinum trophy, the playerbase is large enough that even a third of us getting them automatically on release would be more than enough to create supply), because new releases are always in demand, but I'm no longer deadset against it. I think it would even out fairly quickly as more people acquired them (since there would be a guaranteed method of doing so) and as the ratios calmed down. New prize ratios would be a problem, but all new release ratios are a problem, I don't think that issue can be applied to a new prize breed as a new prize breed specific problem.

Edited March 1, 2023 by StarlightLion

[Shadowdrake]

It's a minimum of 60 winners, with 10 gold's, 20 silvers and 30 bronze. 

 

I think making a new breed that everyone can only get 1 cb ever (plat trophy) will get a lot of pushback - we can get 2 cb holidays each and 3 GoNs, but most people want more for various reasons. It'd also be weird if the first three trophies were the old prizes and then suddenly you swapped to an entirety new breed? Or even a recolor that's not raffle-winnable.

[KageSora]

On 2/28/2023 at 1:58 AM, seventeendeer said:

I just think people who put in more hours should get more stuff, like any other video game.

 

How exactly does "grab a ton of crap off the AP, dump it in a hatchery, log off for a few days, log back on to rinse and repeat" thus amassing a large amount of dragons constitute putting in more hours than "spending several hours each day online trying to hunt for the dragons you're looking for for your highly specific collection"?

 

It genuine takes very little time to amass a large number of dragons if you do take advantage of the AP (especially if it's incuhatchable and you have Reds)

[Fuzzbucket]

If you work up to platinum just to get the prize - do you lose that prize if you then downsize your scroll, as happens with the trophy ?

[DragonLady86]

2 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

If you work up to platinum just to get the prize - do you lose that prize if you then downsize your scroll, as happens with the trophy ?

Not anymore, per TJ

[Su_Halcon]

Being here since 2009 and never winning anything I would really love to avoid this permanently monthly frustration very much, so I support any idea and this one too

[Starscream]

On 2/28/2023 at 3:58 AM, seventeendeer said:

(As for why I mentioned alt sweets, they were simply another thing only given to a few players as a one-time thing early on. Simply pointing to all the times in early DC history where the site had no mercy on the exclusivity side of things. Not gunning for nuance on that specific point, just pointing out that the vibes were different.)

 

It was fun for a while, but the change that alt sweet owners also get pink now was a grave mistake in my eye.  If I could have any say in the matter, I would press for that any lineage with alt as a parent should go black on anyone's scroll.

 

I am opposed to making everything utterly easy to obtain - which is a vibe I tend to get from threads like this. I like a bit of a challenge. while I do have CB golds, I have yet to get one of my own-  frustrating, but I enjoy the challenge.

 

In general, I don't breed on request. I don't breed much other than my own personal needs, or glomp gifts for those whom I wish to give thanks to (for whatever reason.) I ceased breeding on request after a series of unfortunate personal incidents that I found very off putting.

 

As a mod, I can see how this could be abused, which is why, I would strongly suggest that these be scroll locked, (or gone upon abandonment- essentially released to the wilds)

As for the it's not my play style. This is why I never use celestials- I've never liked multi-egg, even when it was the original way of things..  I will also say as a mod we do our best to find and remove multi-scrollers. If you suspect any, feel free to DM me here, or in Discord.

 

Now to play devils advocate. I suppose if you wanted to go the way of a prize dragon (of a type) for each trophy. then this is my suggestion, (forgive me if I am getting these out of order). Bronze: A CB BSA dragon of choosing (currently released) . Silver: An Uncommon egg of your choosing (currently released). Gold: A rare egg (currently released) of your choosing. then Platinum, A Prize dragon of your choosing. Now I'm going to toss this little nib-let out there. It could be kinda interesting if any of the available hybrids (summons excluded) could be available as the prize for each of the levels as a CB. For example a Bronze trophy could choose a Soulpeace. I truely can't think of which other hybrids exist at each level. But ALL of these are to be locked to scroll, not for trade, and if abandoned, end up in the wilderness.

 

 

[Shadowdrake]

20 minutes ago, Starscream said:

I am opposed to making everything utterly easy to obtain - which is a vibe I tend to get from threads like this.

On the contrary, no breed is less challenging than a cb prize because they at least require some hunting or raising shards. Getting a prize is just a matter of a monthly check-in and grabbing or breeding 3 random dragons.

 

28 minutes ago, Starscream said:

As a mod, I can see how this could be abused, which is why, I would strongly suggest that these be scroll locked, (or gone upon abandonment- essentially released to the wilds)

Prizes already have adequate anti-abuse by being untradable. Making the prize seem abandonable like any other egg only to destroy it sounds unreasonable and cruel.

[nerys]

How about one "free" dragon from the shards buying place when you unlock each level?  Then there is no new thing that folks get gritty about and you can choose the one you need for a thing ? You get a new colour badge as it is, and more spaces to grow things..is that not enough of an unlock these days?

[Starscream]

1 hour ago, Shadowdrake said:

On the contrary, no breed is less challenging than a cb prize because they at least require some hunting or raising shards. Getting a prize is just a matter of a monthly check-in and grabbing or breeding 3 random dragons.

 

Prizes already have adequate anti-abuse by being untradable. Making the prize seem abandonable like any other egg only to destroy it sounds unreasonable and cruel.

I did not say use deception. Logically there would be a warning. If this egg is abandoned it automatically goes to the wilds. I would have assumed this was logical and not necessary to spell out since there are warnings regarding most every action in the site. If its specific to an egg, it will be a specific abandon warning.

[StarlightLion]

3 hours ago, Starscream said:

t could be kinda interesting if any of the available hybrids (summons excluded) could be available as the prize for each of the levels as a CB.

I am extremely biased of course, but I would LOVE this to be an option. Even if it was a Platinum trophy only (or really any other method tbh, I'd even take pure rng raffle if it meant getting CB hybrids into circulation). But as much as I would love it, it would need a lot of conversation with the spriters/concept creators before doing, because hybrids are specifically not intended to be caveborn.

That said, if they agree, all aboard the hype train to CB hybrid-ville!!

[Shadowdrake]

1 hour ago, nerys said:

How about one "free" dragon from the shards buying place when you unlock each level?  Then there is no new thing that folks get gritty about and you can choose the one you need for a thing ? You get a new colour badge as it is, and more spaces to grow things..is that not enough of an unlock these days?

Not to be rude, but this idea doesn't really fit the thread. This thread is mainly trying to fix prizes, so just giving people a free egg from market while it doesn't have prizes misses the point. 

 

1 hour ago, Starscream said:

I did not say use deception. Logically there would be a warning. If this egg is abandoned it automatically goes to the wilds. I would have assumed this was logical and not necessary to spell out since there are warnings regarding most every action in the site. If its specific to an egg, it will be a specific abandon warning.

I'm afraid I don't take warnings for granted as several warnings are relatively recent (holiday biome, killing after a revive) and other possible ones haven't been implemented (breeding whole locked, killing fresh cave eggs). However, if we must go with a warning and the egg being scrollbound, I would prefer the GoN method and a warning before you accept the egg. Block's idea of just granting an adult prize is not ideal, but still better than making a unnecessary new system of abandonment.

[Starscream]

3 minutes ago, Shadowdrake said:

I would prefer the GoN method and a warning before you accept the egg. Block's idea of just granting an adult prize is not ideal, but still better than making a unnecessary new system of abandonment.

I admit it's been dog years since I've had a summon so I've forgotten this. This could be a solution.

[Arlen]

I really really wish this is the way things were already. Not for the new prize idea though.

Either this or increase the amount of raffle winners

 

I'm collecting at least 2 adult cbs and at least 3 frozen breds per species (living dex kind of a deal) and this would make things a lot easier, I hate the idea of having to enter the raffle every month to be able to finish my collection when everything else can be collected from the cave or bred

[KittyHawkMC]

20 hours ago, StarlightLion said:

Is it really only six players??? I've been operating under the belief it's more like fifteen per breed - not exactly, I think there was some kind of uneven split across the colour variants with gold being the lowest number of winners - but if it's only one per unique variant per month that's so astronomically unlikely to win that they might as well still be unobtainable.

 

19 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

It's a minimum of 60 winners, with 10 gold's, 20 silvers and 30 bronze. 

 

Ah, alright! My apologies. The site itself isn't very descriptive in terms of how many winners there are, so I assumed the absolute bare minimum  Regardless, the fact that the raffle is solely determined by RNG is a bit disheartening, even though I know that's how raffles work. There are just so many players that reliably join every month for years and win nothing, while on the other hand, some people have multiple prizes. 

 

I do still think the raffle mechanic for CB prizes is slightly outdated now that the playerbase has increased so much, and I'd still love to see a different way to obtain them implemented.  

 

(Sorry if this post is off-topic! I just wanted to apologise for issuing false information. I'll keep lurking here though!)