Expanded/Expandable Lineage View

[igloo9201]

The lineage page is currently limited to displaying a set number of generations (to prevent lag/visual clutter, I'm assuming), so on really high lineage dragons you have to go and click on the ancestors to see earlier generations. This is fairly tedious and prevents you from being able to see a really big lineage in all its glory. For messy lineages, if for any reason you want to investigate earlier generations, it would be EXTREMELY tedious to try and patch together the dragon's entire ancestry with the limited view.

 

Like I said, I do understand that immediately loading a huge lineage page would cause performance issues. I wonder if an "expand" option could be available on the right side of the page to load more generations within the same page, and as it gets bigger the page's scroll bars could get bigger to allow for navigation. This way, unsuspecting users wouldn't have to immediately be put through the struggle of loading a gigantic lineage, but inquiring minds would have a chance to see the full thing. With it being a voluntary choice to expand the page, it is now up to the user to crash their browser if they want to load it all up, and it's no longer a performance issue liability on Dragon Cave's end.

 

Just something I've been thinking about because only being able to see a set amount of generations on something like a 50+ gen stairstep really takes the pizzazz out of it. 

[Fuzzbucket]

I can't see how you COULD view a whole 50th gen lineage on one page. You can extend backwards on AOND, but only with the individual dragon at the base where it says "more".

 

I have a 15th gen checker, and I can hardly see the whole of the gens that DO show; the height of it all is massive; I have to scroll way down.

https://dragcave.net/lineage/ri6Sw

 

Likewise my current stairstep: https://dragcave.net/lineage/Db9Nf - I can't see how you could see much more of it on a single page. I think it is less an issue of page loading as one of how on EARTH could you even see that ?

[KageSora]

I think it's less "you would see it all at once" and more "right now you might have to manually click through tons of dragons to go to their view page, then see if they have a lineage, go through their lineage, possibly repeat the click through process several times, ultimately loading dozens and dozens of different pages to piece the lineage together"

 

This would basically allow you to load it in chunks from one page instead of taking dozens of additional clicks and pages you go through.  You'd still need to scroll and may have some issues reading it if it's massive, but it would let you not click through a billion times.

 

A possible variation is "pages" I suppose--where while it doesn't load all on one screen, it loads the next chunk of lineage.  This would get very tall eventually, but you could scroll to see it since you already have to scroll to see a lot of lineages as-is so...

[Shadowdrake]

I think the best way to do this would be to let the player pick which ancestors to expand lineage display on. This would also avoid the problem of loading up to 2048 dragons' worth of lineages simultaneously.

 

Rough example: 

 

not expanded

G38 (+) -- G38 (+) -- G38 (+) -- G38 (+)

           G39            --            G39

                   [Gens 40-49]

                          G50

 

expanded 

            G16 (+) -- G16 (+)

                [Gens 17-26]

                  G27 -- G27

G38 (+)   --    G38 (-)   --   G38 (+) -- G38 (+)

               G39              -             G39

                       [Gens 40-49]

                              G50

Edited February 24, 2023 by Shadowdrake

[igloo9201]

22 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I can't see how you COULD view a whole 50th gen lineage on one page. You can extend backwards on AOND, but only with the individual dragon at the base where it says "more".

 

I have a 15th gen checker, and I can hardly see the whole of the gens that DO show; the height of it all is massive; I have to scroll way down.

https://dragcave.net/lineage/ri6Sw

 

Likewise my current stairstep: https://dragcave.net/lineage/Db9Nf - I can't see how you could see much more of it on a single page. I think it is less an issue of page loading as one of how on EARTH could you even see that ?

I think I had envisioned just expanding the scroll bars (I’ve seen some ridiculously big webpages that you just have to scroll through for a long time lol) but some of the other things people have suggested in the thread would probably be much better. It would just be nice to have SOMETHING other than manually clicking through all the dragons to try and figure out the ancestry.

[purplehaze]

It really would be nice to have a way to see more without all the clicking that is required now. It is almost impossible, as things stand, to get a comprehensive idea of what a really large lineage actually looks like. Being able to expand to more generations and scroll to see how the parts connect would be really helpful.

[KageSora]

15 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

I think the best way to do this would be to let the player pick which ancestors to expand lineage display on. This would also avoid the problem of loading up to 2048 dragons' worth of lineages simultaneously.

 

I think the idea of being able to toggle an expansion/contraction of individual dragons would be the best option in terms of value to the players, honestly.

[Fuzzbucket]

"Of individual dragons" won't help with a checker. You can do that on AOND - but you only get the view of that segment.

[Shadowdrake]

4 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

"Of individual dragons" won't help with a checker. You can do that on AOND - but you only get the view of that segment.

why do you assume you'd only be able to expand one dragon at a time

Edited February 24, 2023 by Shadowdrake

[schenanigans]

On 2/23/2023 at 1:04 PM, Fuzzbucket said:

I can't see how you COULD view a whole 50th gen lineage on one page. You can extend backwards on AOND, but only with the individual dragon at the base where it says "more".

 

I have a 15th gen checker, and I can hardly see the whole of the gens that DO show; the height of it all is massive; I have to scroll way down.

https://dragcave.net/lineage/ri6Sw

 

Likewise my current stairstep: https://dragcave.net/lineage/Db9Nf - I can't see how you could see much more of it on a single page. I think it is less an issue of page loading as one of how on EARTH could you even see that ?

 

Literally the same exact way we do with what we see now, and the same exact way that we did before the change: scrolling. They aren't asking to see it all conveniently squished into one visible section of the screen, they just want the ability to look at the entirety of the lineage without having to click every ancestor to see what, where, and how it continues. 

[KageSora]

15 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

"Of individual dragons" won't help with a checker. You can do that on AOND - but you only get the view of that segment.

 

I was figuring more you could toggle it on/off for each non-CB dragon at-will.  That is, if you had 2 ancestors with a lineage you couldn't see fully by default you could toggle them as you go without having to toggle the others off.

 

Here, pretend this is part of a much longer lineage:

 

What I was envisioning was that if you click the little "hey, more to see here!" marker it would load that dragon's ancestors, but that you could also then click another marker and it would then load those as well rather than being a "only able to toggle one or the other".  (Because you're right that it wouldn't solve things for any dragon that has more than one ancestor that has a lineage that goes beyond the current visible number...)  Just that you'd toggle them one dragon at a time because that would give you maximum flexibility to only check the ancestors you were interested in or to keep it from trying to load too many images at once.

 

For long enough lineages it'd just toggle the next section and then you might want to toggle another section if needed, maybe.

 

Perhaps there could even be a "toggle all" option for those who don't care about trying to load a few hundred images at the same time for a very large lineage or something?

[Fuzzbucket]

But my understanding was that the OP wanted to see more of the whole lineage on one page.

 

11 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

why do you assume you'd only be able to expand one dragon at a time

 

I was responding to @KageSora, who said:

 

17 hours ago, KageSora said:

I think the idea of being able to toggle an expansion/contraction of individual dragons would be the best option in terms of value to the players, honestly.

....

[KageSora]

You could--it would be an option to expand more of the lineage onto the page.

 

But a toggle option would give individual users a choice between "try to load the massive lineage all at once" and "only see the truncated version unless they click through more pages over and over"

[Shadowdrake]

21 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

But my understanding was that the OP wanted to see more of the whole lineage on one page.

Yes, and there's a difference between being able to expand individual dragons vs being able to expand only one dragon at a time, which is what you seem to be thinking of. A full lineage can be displayed by having multiple individual ancestors expanded simultaneously.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Shadowdrake

[Fuzzbucket]

23 hours ago, KageSora said:

You could--it would be an option to expand more of the lineage onto the page.

 

But a toggle option would give individual users a choice between "try to load the massive lineage all at once" and "only see the truncated version unless they click through more pages over and over"

 

But how could you ? Just a sec....

 

OK - I just tried to load the last page of a 15 gen dragon I have and create the full lineage on Photoshop. This CANNOT work. I can't even get the line from gen 4 to 15 on one page....

 

3 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

Yes, and there's a difference between being able to expand individual dragons vs being able to expand only one dragon at a time, which is what you seem to be thinking of. A full lineage can be displayed by having multiple individual ancestors expanded simultaneously.

That isn't on a single page though. Which was what the OP asked for:

 

On 2/23/2023 at 4:09 PM, igloo9201 said:

This is fairly tedious and prevents you from being able to see a really big lineage in all its glory. For messy lineages, if for any reason you want to investigate earlier generations, it would be EXTREMELY tedious to try and patch together the dragon's entire ancestry with the limited view.

 

[KageSora]

34 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

But how could you ? Just a sec....

 

OK - I just tried to load the last page of a 15 gen dragon I have and create the full lineage on Photoshop. This CANNOT work. I can't even get the line from gen 4 to 15 on one page....

 

That isn't on a single page though. Which was what the OP asked for:

 

 

Use this lineage building tool real quick, expand out until you have like.  30 gens.

 

At the bottom of the page there should be a scroll to the side option.  It's all on one page, you just have to scroll side to side as well as up and down to see it.  If you mean all on one screen with no scrolling involved, yeah that'll never work.

 

But if you can click "expand" to load the other ancestors then you don't have to click away from the lineage to load up a different dragon, check if it has a lineage, then load all of those then check the furthest back to see if they have a lineage.

 

So, for this dragon.  Currently, if I want to be able to check the full lineage I need to load not just this lineage page, but I need to load an additional...  Oh yeesh, 60+ pages in order to tell if each dragon at the furthest displayed end is a CB or not, and then if it isn't to check it's lineage.  If I needed to then repeat the process for their lineages that would easily be several hundred pages you might have to open to click to and then go back to the lineage you were looking at.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'd have to load the dragons in a whole lineage individually, I believe ? I can't just enter the code of the 15th gen and view it ? Am I missing something ? So - to be blunt it would be less effort to use AOND and look at a bit at a time.

[Shadowdrake]

What are you talking about?? A page is just a single web address, it doesn't matter how big it is or if it requires scrolling because it's still one page. If you zoom out enough you can certainly see most lineages regardless of size.

 

What does loading dragons on a fansite have to do with this suggestion? The whole point here is to avoid having to load "a bit at a time" when you can get it all on one url. KageSora is trying to illustrate what "expanding individual dragons" means in terms of display, not that this suggestion should be implemented like a limited fansite is.

 

This conversation feels blindingly unnecessary.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Shadowdrake

[MissK.]

@Fuzzbucket It sounds like you're fundamentally misunderstanding what people are talking about. Right now, to see more of a lineage that gets cut off, you need to open the lineages of the furthest to the right dragons in entirely new pages. So you can never have the whole thing all in one. What people are suggesting is having the option to "expand" the lineage for one or all of those dragons on the right, without loading a new page. Imagine that the rest of the lineage is collapsed under a spoiler, and clicking "expand" would make it appear and stretch the page more. So you'd have to scroll more left and right (and up and down of course) to see everyhing, but it would be all on the same page, and you could even technically see it all at once if you zoomed out far enough.

 

As long as this is feasible in terms of resources of the site, I'm in support. It's not really something I care too much about personally, but definitely sounds way handier than what we have now.

[Fuzzbucket]

I do realise that. But you CAN expand the lineage in off-site pages; what you CAN'T do anywhere is "see the full lineage in all its glory" on one page.- and expanding the - "right hand section" for my 15th gen one could never show all the dragons at the base on one page - there are just too many.- I think >32,000 of them, if I worked that out right.... Even for a 10th gen it's 1024.... How could you hope to zoom that far ? (I actually tried to zoom far enough to see all the current view and it won't zoom far enough. It would only go down to 25% which gets me less than half of it:and isn't exactly a thing of glory !

 

[Shadowdrake]

1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

what you CAN'T do anywhere is "see the full lineage in all its glory" on one page

Please stop being pedantic. The original poster mentioned being able to scroll more as the lineage gets bigger, it's only you interpreting it to mean that they want to see everything at once.

[KageSora]

Okay, so I think what's happening here is that we're using very different definitions of "page", for the purpose of "lineage visible on a single page".

 

I've been using page to mean "everything loaded to one location, even if you have to toggle some things visible or invisible, without navigating to a secondary URL"

 

So, the forums, for example.  When there's a topic that has multiple pages, if I want to read what's on page 2 or page 3 I have to load a brand new page with all new information on it.  However even within those pages I have to scroll because the information takes up more than one screen even if it's only a one-page topic--even if I zoom out as much as possible I can't see everything without scrolling repeatedly.

 

Based on the original post mentioning scrolling, I get the feeling that the OP also considers "screen" and "page" to be distinct concepts rather than using them interchangeably.

 

So, for the purposes of this topic being able to expand the lineage on one page would be the same idea as if you clicked the next "page" button on the forum and, instead of loading an entirely brand new page with all new posts, it just loaded the new posts below the current ones.  You'd still have to scroll because there's too much for one single screen of information, but you'd be able to see the previous posts and the new posts instead of only the new posts.

 

Even looking at what AOND does, that's not quite it--that shows a maximum of 13 and then you have to load a whole new page with the information for the lineage you clicked the "more" link on.  And since it defaults to 4 when you click the "view more" link...  While it does cut down on the number of pages loaded drastically because you can right away tell if a dragon has more ancestors or not (unlike on DC itself) and you can have inbreeding highlighted so it's easier to notice, I'd still need to click and open around 25 different pages for this dragon (same as above).  Down from over 60, yes, so it's a useful reduction but still a lot of pages.  If the dragon was not inbred, it'd be notably higher.

 

Being able to expand them--however many of them you want, up to and including all of them--without having to load an entire brand new page with all new information and none of the previous dragons listed is still an improvement in terms of being able to easily examine the lineage rather than having to go back and forth between pages (especially if pages are taking eternity to load for you--once they're all loaded up you can often scroll more easily but if you have to keep re-loading pages going back and forth or opening dozens of tabs you're swapping between that's...  A lot more of a pain, IMO.)

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by KageSora

[AnthillDragon]

I a hundred percent support this idea! Personally, I would prefer to just load the entire thing in at once, rather than expand single dragons in the lineage (it would require a lot of clicking!). Maybe the full lineage could open in a separate page without the site's standard CSS (possibily just a button that leads back to the main site) so one could take it all in (and limit the scrolling a little bit, haha). But regardless of how it would be implemented, I would support and use this feature for sure ^^

[Fuzzbucket]

10 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

Please stop being pedantic. The original poster mentioned being able to scroll more as the lineage gets bigger, it's only you interpreting it to mean that they want to see everything at once.

 

See below. (though that - "all its glory" - was what they said !) But as soon as you load a dragon on the "right" you still wouldn't get MUCH more information...

 

9 hours ago, KageSora said:

Okay, so I think what's happening here is that we're using very different definitions of "page", for the purpose of "lineage visible on a single page".

 

I've been using page to mean "everything loaded to one location, even if you have to toggle some things visible or invisible, without navigating to a secondary URL"

 

So, the forums, for example.  When there's a topic that has multiple pages, if I want to read what's on page 2 or page 3 I have to load a brand new page with all new information on it.  However even within those pages I have to scroll because the information takes up more than one screen even if it's only a one-page topic--even if I zoom out as much as possible I can't see everything without scrolling repeatedly.

 

Based on the original post mentioning scrolling, I get the feeling that the OP also considers "screen" and "page" to be distinct concepts rather than using them interchangeably.

 

So, for the purposes of this topic being able to expand the lineage on one page would be the same idea as if you clicked the next "page" button on the forum and, instead of loading an entirely brand new page with all new posts, it just loaded the new posts below the current ones.  You'd still have to scroll because there's too much for one single screen of information, but you'd be able to see the previous posts and the new posts instead of only the new posts.

 

Even looking at what AOND does, that's not quite it--that shows a maximum of 13 and then you have to load a whole new page with the information for the lineage you clicked the "more" link on.  And since it defaults to 4 when you click the "view more" link...  While it does cut down on the number of pages loaded drastically because you can right away tell if a dragon has more ancestors or not (unlike on DC itself) and you can have inbreeding highlighted so it's easier to notice, I'd still need to click and open around 25 different pages for this dragon (same as above).  Down from over 60, yes, so it's a useful reduction but still a lot of pages.  If the dragon was not inbred, it'd be notably higher.

 

Being able to expand them--however many of them you want, up to and including all of them--without having to load an entire brand new page with all new information and none of the previous dragons listed is still an improvement in terms of being able to easily examine the lineage rather than having to go back and forth between pages (especially if pages are taking eternity to load for you--once they're all loaded up you can often scroll more easily but if you have to keep re-loading pages going back and forth or opening dozens of tabs you're swapping between that's...  A lot more of a pain, IMO.)

 

This. But as I am not specially invested in this one, I will bow out, as it just interested me how it could possibly be made to work, and as I don't mind one way or the other, I'll leave it to those who do care to get something that makes them happy!

[igloo9201]

Just to clarify - yes, my ideal would be to see everything in one page that you get the ability to scroll through. That would be my ideal situation, to have like a "load full lineage" button/link and see the whoooole thing with expanded scrollbars for vertical and horizontal scrolling. If nothing else, I would at LEAST like to see some kind of option on the lineage page to indicate if a particular part of the lineage goes back further than what we can see, because any of these suggestions would IMO be better than what we have right now.