ANSWERED:Allow Prize Choice in Raffle

[MoonShark]

13 hours ago, Hawaiianbabidoll said:

This is why I said prizes should be given out in order, specifically so this wouldn't happen. Winners wouldn't all be chosen at once, but rather in chunks.

Basically, third place wouldn't be chosen until after all previous places have been given out. So if a second place winner demoted to third place, a new second place winner would be chosen and the demoted winner would take one of the third place spots before third place was actually chosen. Once all second places have been given out successfully, any third place spots remaining would then be rolled.

So say there are 40 prizes: 5 first place, 10 second place, and 20 third place.
5 first place winners get chosen first, 1 opts for no gold and gets demoted to second place. A new winner is chosen, so 6 users have won at this point, 5 first places and 1 second place.
Now that all 5 golds have been claimed, the remaining 9 second places are rolled.
Ok, so now say 3 of these second place winners do not want a silver. They are dropped to 3rd place, and 3 new second places are rolled.
At this point, we would have 5 first place winners, 10 second place winners, and 3 third place winners.
Now the remaining 17 third place winners are chosen, and any that opted out of a bronze would be demoted to non-winners and be re-rolled until all 17 places are filled.

Does that make sense?

 

That would be a really great way to implement this suggestion.

 

And I 100% support this suggestion, because yes, we don't do anything for the Prize raffle beyond gathering a few dragons to enter it, but it still sucks a bit to win something you don't want. Yes, it's still a "win," but I know plenty of people who have their heart set on a specific prize and would disappointed if they finally won only to get something else (especially if it's a variety they don't like at all). As much as I love my Bronze Shimmer, I was disappointed he wasn't a Silver Shimmer when I won him, because that's what I really wanted.

[HeatherMarie]

36 minutes ago, Nalyua said:

 

This. It sounds like sort of ungrateful to me, you are given a gift and pout because it's not exactly what you wanted? I would love to get a Prize. Alas, probably not gonna happen.

 

What I would think works is to refuse the Prize and that egg being reraffled for the other participants.

 

Well it's not exactly a 'gift', we do have to meet requirements to enter the raffle and most people will meet those requirements and enter the raffle every month for years before actually winning. It's not just some lucky spontaneous gift, it's a raffle that people have to 'pay' to enter (by raising certain types of dragons, etc).  As such, since it takes *years* for most users to get a single win as is, and there are different *types* of dragons given out, it seems completely understandable that some people may be disappointed to *finally* win only to win something they didn't actually want in the first place. 

 

I see absolutely no downsides to this suggestion, as long as it's implemented in a way that won't screw with ratios or affect anyone else's chances I don't see why there shouldn't be an option to be allowed to choose *what* dragon you are entering the raffle for.

[Nalyua]

To me it just seems really entitled. I mean obviously I can see where some people are coming from but it's just a hard no from me. Which I guess is fine too.

[LevelsOfViolence]

Pardon me, but how is it entitled, exactly? Just because something is rare doesn't immediately make it valuable, and saying that people are 'entitled' for not viewing each and every prize as equal (also known as having personal opinions) sounds... pretty rude to me, especially as someone who had to wait 11 years to win something unwanted. I mean, I was obviously prepared for it, but that didn't make it less unpleasant.

 

Besides, users don't enter the raffle just to complain about not winning what they want, they enter the raffle because its the only way to win a desirable egg. The fact that some other, less subjectively valuable options are mixed into the raffle isn't in our control, that's just how the game is - and it doesn't mean that we have no right to be upset about it.

 

On topic though, I think @Hawaiianbabidoll brings up an excellent way to implement this, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be too complicated code-wise either.

Edited June 6, 2022 by LevelsOfViolence

[purplehaze]

57 minutes ago, Nalyua said:

What I would think works is to refuse the Prize and that egg being reraffled for the other participants.

IF that was the way it works. But if you don't pick up the egg before the next raffle it actually goes to no one. It is available for the whole month and as far as I am aware there is no option to refuse it. Early raffles were redrawn if prizes weren't claimed, but that changed when the raffle became a monthly thing. So you either take the egg or no one gets it.

12 minutes ago, Nalyua said:

To me it just seems really entitled. I mean obviously I can see where some people are coming from but it's just a hard no from me. Which I guess is fine too.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but I agree with @LevelsOfViolence on this. People do have different tastes and it does not seem entitled to me to want to be able to pick a prize if you have a strong preference. Many people will be happy with whatever they get, but those who have strong feelings about it should be able to pick. It does not harm the chances of anyone but the person who is choosing.

[Silverwatermist]

1 minute ago, Nalyua said:

To me it just seems really entitled. I mean obviously I can see where some people are coming from but it's just a hard no from me. Which I guess is fine too.

For me at least, I'd really like this suggestion to be implemented not because I feel entitled to get the exact Prize I like, but because I don't want to win a Prize that I know other raffle entrants are dying for but that I happen to feel uninterested in and have 0 scroll goals for. I'd rather be able to mark which Prizes I don't want so that it never enters me for that one and therefore never takes a win away from someone who loves that Prize dragon, or so that if I win that one, it auto re-rolls until someone who wants it wins it. For me, that means there's a single type of Prize I'd be marking myself as eligible for, and I don't mind that it would lower my chances of ever winning anything at all. I'd rather the eggs I could've won go to those who love them instead. Dropping the theoretical egg in the AP is an option but I'd rather it go straight to another raffle entrant who met the requirements.
 

[Nalyua]

But that would be a case of gifting it to a person who wants it. Like I said I can understand why someone would want exactly what they want. But I feel it is ungrateful and entitled to be disappointed by a prize you won to start with. I mean if there is a lottery at a fair you don't enter saying "I will only enter if I win so and such", instead you either decline and allow someone else to win or say thank you for the opportunity and gift the prize on (or swap it).

 

And having said that, yes I do have a clear preference for breed and colour of prizes. No I will not be disappointed if I happen to win and the prize is something different. I will either keep it and be happy or give it away.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Nalyua

[schenanigans]

Repeated references to IRL raffles and lotteries are being thrown out so I'm just going to point a few things out:

With monetary lotteries, EVERYONE is entering for that grand prize, not that $10 consolation prize. The $10 just makes the loss a little more bearable. Not to mention, repeated $10 wins will eventually accumulate into something worthwhile. Repeated losses with this raffle equate to nothing, and there are no compensation prizes. Additionally, and the more important part, there is no single grand prize that every single player is entering for -- we have variety, and that variety in turn provides options for different preferences. 

 

As for other raffles with item prizes, there are multiple ways these are handled: you purchase a number of tickets and enter for whichever raffle prize(s) interest you, OR everyone is put into a pot and given prizes at random. Obviously DC functions like the latter. The difference is, if I get a winning raffle basket that I know I won't use for whatever reason, I am plenty capable of gifting that prize away to someone who will appreciate it better or even trading it with someone else who desired my prize better. DC actively prevents this. It is not entitled for people to wish for options to allow them to obtain something that is literally only obtainable in this capacity. 

 

 

Also love the ideas presented by HBD for an option on how to handle this, and I have linked them in my OP. 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by schenanigans

[Fuzzbucket]

3 hours ago, Nalyua said:

What I would think works is to refuse the Prize and that egg being reraffled for the other participants.

 

An option to refuse, and then the egg goes to the next person on TJ's list - he could draw a few extra names each month - seems to get around everything.

 

 

19 minutes ago, schenanigans said:

Repeated references to IRL raffles and lotteries are being thrown out so I'm just going to point a few things out:

With monetary lotteries, EVERYONE is entering for that grand prize, not that $10 consolation prize. The $10 just makes the loss a little more bearable.

 

With this raffle, you hope for one prize; getting a different one makes the loss of that a little more bearable. That works too, you know.

[schenanigans]

49 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

With this raffle, you hope for one prize; getting a different one makes the loss of that a little more bearable. That works too, you know.

 

You are correct! It does work that way. I think you missed my main point though - in a lottery like your example, everyone enters for the grand prize. That's not the case with DC's raffle, as everyone hopes for something different. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by schenanigans

[UnicornMaiden]

Speaking for myself, there are definitely some Prize sprites that I like better than others and would prefer to have. However, I would much rather have a less-preferred Prize than no Prize at all.

 

The way I see it, if there were an option to choose which Prize you want there are basically two ways of going about it. One would be to have one pool with all the entrants in it. If a person indicates that they want, for example, a Gold Shimmer, and their name is pulled for a Silver Tinsel then they miss out on getting any Prize, and someone else's name gets pulled for the Silver Tinsel.

 

The other way is to have six separate pools, and a person's name only goes into the pool for the option they want. Therefore, if they indicate that they want a Gold Shimmer their name is only available to be pulled for a Gold Shimmer egg, and they don't have a chance of winning anything else.

 

Personally I like the second option better. Mathematically I'm not sure if it makes any difference to the odds of winning, but it seems better to me to just enter for the Prize you want than to enter for everything and then run the risk of your name getting pulled but then missing out anyway.

[Nalyua]

That second option would be kind of unfair to the people who would actually be content with whatever they got from the raffle. If you detest the prize you won that much you can always simply give it away. The first option only affects the person declining the prize and at the same time the person who is drawn instead.

 

And if you don't like the option of winning something you may dislike then just not bother to enter?

 

Dunno, how ever you look at this for me it's pouting about a gift not being exactly what you wanted it to be, weren't the raffles introduced because of all the drama of the prizes being distributed only once a year? Quite honestly if someone sees I'm tired and offers me a coffee I won't harp on how I wanted it with milk or a tea instead. I tell them thank you or politely no thank you, as they are already acommodating me.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Nalyua

[Fuzzbucket]

ALL this is solved by simply rejecting a prize you don't want. Just give us the option to do that and it's done. KISS and all that. The only "ghastly" side if it is that instead of never having to see a prize you didn't want, you have to look at something unwanted just for long enough to give back. How TERRIBLE is that ? (Rhetorical question..)

[Hawaiianbabidoll]

10 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

ALL this is solved by simply rejecting a prize you don't want. Just give us the option to do that and it's done. KISS and all that. The only "ghastly" side if it is that instead of never having to see a prize you didn't want, you have to look at something unwanted just for long enough to give back. How TERRIBLE is that ? (Rhetorical question..)

The problem with rejection being user controlled rather than automated is timing.
If a user controls when the prize is rejected and re-rolled, and they wait until the end of the month to do that, new winners might miss their prize because they didn't realize they *could* win a prize so late in the month or they might be egglocked with not enough time to get unlocked. If there is a checklist instead for the prize to be checked against so it's automatically re-rolled, then all winners still get alerted to their prize winnings at the same time on the same day.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Hawaiianbabidoll

[KageSora]

1 hour ago, Nalyua said:

That second option would be kind of unfair to the people who would actually be content with whatever they got from the raffle.

How?  I'm pretty sure most people would prefer the idea of "enter each pool you would be interested in winning a prize from" rather than "you can only enter one (1) pool", therefore how would being abled to remove yourself from the pool of entrants for a prize you're not interested in be unfair?  If you want any prize at all, you'd just enter for all of them.

 

Personally speaking, if I'm entering a raffle, I'd rather be entering and only competing against other people who'd be happy with the prize than people who'd get the prize and go "no, just throw it in the trash, I don't want it" (which, as far as I know, is basically what happens if they don't want to claim a prize they don't want).

 

1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

ALL this is solved by simply rejecting a prize you don't want. Just give us the option to do that and it's done. KISS and all that. The only "ghastly" side if it is that instead of never having to see a prize you didn't want, you have to look at something unwanted just for long enough to give back. How TERRIBLE is that ? (Rhetorical question..)

I mean, that's the same as just not claiming it unless you change it so that people have to accept/reject within a much, much more limited timeframe.

 

If you give people an entire month to decide, that doesn't really leave you time to re-roll the raffle--especially if you got rejections on subsequent rolls.

 

I suppose an alternative would be "have a base pool of prizes, and any unclaimed or rejected prizes are added to the next month's pool of prizes"?  If everything gets claimed then the next month starts with the normal base pool, but if anything was unclaimed or rejected it would also be added to the next month's pool of prizes.  That, at least, would be nicer than assuming if you reject or don't claim it then the prize goes to nobody and just gets deleted.

[Jazeki]

Just popping back in to say that I like the idea of being able to use checkboxes to select which prize pools to enter/not enter and I like the idea of a prize pool that contributes to the following month.

[schenanigans]

2 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

ALL this is solved by simply rejecting a prize you don't want. Just give us the option to do that and it's done. KISS and all that. The only "ghastly" side if it is that instead of never having to see a prize you didn't want, you have to look at something unwanted just for long enough to give back. How TERRIBLE is that ? (Rhetorical question..)

 

This only solves half of the problem - rejecting a prize you don't want doesn't solve the problem of being able to narrow down the prize you do want. This just adds an extra step to giving someone else a prize. It also doesn't ensure someone will want specifically that prize, and could go to someone who would just think "good enough" whereas at least if I had control over who got the egg, I know it would be cherished. Or go to someone with 3 prizes instead of none. And so on. 

 

How does this suggestion affect you in such a way that providing people with options hurts you or your gameplay? How is your rejection idea different than your idea of being able to only trade CB prize for CB prize? This would just automate that process, and skip a step. Actually, it would also do a worse job of it, because at least trading between prizes would create two happy parties. 

 

You are repeatedly coming up with ideas that ignore the core issue that I presented and wish to address. My core issue being able to somehow choose the prize you enter for, plain and simple. We know you don't like it now at this point. I am not seeking an alternative or a happy medium. This thread is about specifically what I presented, and only wish to seek options that remedy that issue. At least your trading CB prizes idea addressed that. 

 

I'm just having a really hard time wrapping my head around the people saying "I didn't win what I wanted and I do have a preference but no I don't want anything that would actually solve my problem of winning the one I didn't want!" Do you want other people to be equally unhappy just because you got stuck with what you didn't want? I just don't get it. I guess maybe this is one of those "change bad!" situations for some people, no idea.  

Edited June 7, 2022 by schenanigans

[Estellux]

I also like Kit's suggestions. I am fine with any suggestion that lets me say, up front, "I'm not interested in X thing."

• I like Kit's suggestion that just rerolls without telling me because then it saves everyone time in the long run. I can still get up, see that I didn't win, and go on with my day. But it also means that whatever other person out there can get up, see that they won, celebrate with the rest of the winners, and be none the wiser that they were this close to missing out.
• I like the auto-downgrade option too, because it still means I get something out of my win. However, I am fine with this not being implemented. It means that I truly and fully give up my chance by having a staunch preference, and I personally am okay with that.
• Either way, if we were to have an "auto-reroll", it also would allow the beneficiary of the system to pick the day that works most effectively for them to claim their prize. In addition to this, if they were to win it in a month with a date sentimental to them, it would allow the recipient of the prize to claim the dragon on that sentimental date, which I think is a nice additional perk.

I think at the very least it would be nice to pick out whether you want a Western or Eastern prize, honestly. I know we've had a few folks say that a prize is a prize, but the sprites are legitimately different. The outlines are different, they're entirely different breeds, and I know many people who have preferences of one or the other. As for colors, I think that's also important albeit possibly not as important for some. I would pair a silver differently than I would a bronze or a gold. Everyone has preferences, after all!

 

 

Also, I do feel like another important aspect of this whole process that's being overlooked is the idea of 'perceived luck', by which I mean how people feel about their luck as opposed to what their odds actually are. In reality, you have the same chance as anyone else that enters to win any of the prizes. It doesn't matter how many prizes you've won prior, if any, and it doesn't matter how recently you've won, if ever. We can see this from peoples' wins in the past.

 

However, if you win something you don't prefer, then it can feel like you 'wasted' your luck. Again, we know mathematically that this isn't the case, but that doesn't always help the monke brain feel any better. Unfortunately, it's hard to assuage the feeling of having 'wasted' your luck if you can't just give the prize to someone you feel deserves it, or by leveraging the prize for some sort of profit. Not accepting the prize, per TJ's prior suggestion, essentially burns the ticket, and gives you no guarantee that you'll be better off in the future. But tossing it to the AP doesn't help either because, as previously mentioned, maybe it'll go to someone who wants it and maybe it'll end up with someone who wouldn't appreciate it. Or heck, maybe it'll end up with someone who's already fished a couple of other prizes out of the AP because they're just overall better with AP hunting.  With either of TJ's suggestions (AP dumping or not accepting/generating the prize), you potentially lose the satisfaction of doing a tangible good deed with your good fortune.

 

What this system--the ability for individuals to opt out of winning certain prizes--does is allow the individual to feel like they're taking back a bit of that control. Even if they're not. Even if the odds are just as abysmal to get exactly what one would like as though they had never gotten to choose in the first place. I would still like to have the chance to get that out of the way ahead of time. It does not stop others from saying they are fine with whatever they get. It might even help them if I'm taken out of their way. Frankly, I think it would increase overall morale about the raffle system to give people the choice.

 

I know this might seem entitled to others who think I should just be happy with whatever I get, and they're welcome to that opinion. However, I would ask that the entirety of my feelings on the matter be understood. To my mind, just calling someone entitled for having preferences and hopes and expectations only to have them dashed is rather reductive and rude. If you would like me, or others, to respect and understand your feelings, then please do us the courtesy of respecting and understanding ours.

[Nalyua]

5 hours ago, KageSora said:

How?  I'm pretty sure most people would prefer the idea of "enter each pool you would be interested in winning a prize from" rather than "you can only enter one (1) pool", therefore how would being abled to remove yourself from the pool of entrants for a prize you're not interested in be unfair?  If you want any prize at all, you'd just enter for all of them.

 

 

 Because I am quite happy to universally enter instead of needing to fullfill a task for every slot I enter. That is how changing it would be unfair to those who are happy to simply enter the pool. If some people want to be picky this should not affect me because that is on them.

 

Aside of that, the suggestion area is also designed to say why you do not like a suggestion. This is not only about saying how great something is and otherwise be silent.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Nalyua

[KageSora]

30 minutes ago, Nalyua said:

 Because I am quite happy to universally enter instead of needing to fullfill a task for every slot I enter. That is how changing it would be unfair to those who are happy to simply enter the pool. If some people want to be picky this should not affect me because that is on them.

Ah, I think I see--sounds like a miscommunication because the two of us have very different ideas on what the idea of "checkboxes for which prize(s) you want to enter for" means.

 

I never got the impression that you'd have to complete a different task to enter for each possible prize, but that it would function exactly as it is now except you'd be given quick form that lets you pick if you want to opt out of any prize pools.  That, or it would give you two choices:  "enter for any prize" or "enter for a single specific prize", but I'd rather it just be checkboxes that let you select which you want to enter for (including all of them).

 

The simplest way (for the players, dunno about coding-wise) would simply have checkboxes for each breed and color, and have them all checked by default and if you don't want to be selected for a specific breed you would manually un-check the box.  If you're happy with anything you'd just hit the "enter raffle" button the same as you do now once you meet the monthly criteria (which I do not think should be increased but left as it is)

 

Having players complete tasks for every breed and color they want to enter for would be turning one raffle into 6 different raffles, which to me would be an entirely different suggestion than what's been suggested here--and is something I would not want to see.

 

Something like this is what I was picturing.  Please excuse the quick, bad editing lol

 

 

[HeatherMarie]

10 minutes ago, KageSora said:

Having players complete tasks for every breed and color they want to enter for would be turning one raffle into 6 different raffles, which to me would be an entirely different suggestion than what's been suggested here--and is something I would not want to see.

 

Yeah, I never thought this suggestion had anything to do with multiple tasks or splitting up things like that... I wonder if anyone else misunderstood it that way. 

 

I'm honestly confused why some people are seeming so firmly against a suggestion like this. If you would be happy with any prize, then just keep entering the same way you always have, and nothing changes for you. This is not going to negatively impact anyone who doesn't have a preference, but it *will* help those who do have a preference... How is that such a bad thing? 

 

And no I really don't see 'just don't pick it up' or 'add a rejection option' as a comparable option.  Both of those options are literally just throwing away win-spots, and if anything *that* seems entitled when the majority of people still haven't won a single prize. A re-roll would solve that, but realistically in order to have a re-roll the acceptance period for wins would have to be much shorter than the current "until the next raffle". And a re-roll still doesn't solve the core issue here, that prizes take so ridiculously long to win most of the time and it might be pretty disheartening to finally win only to have it be the one you like least. 

[Astral_Skies]

That is about what I was thinking it would be as well, checkboxes are not checkpoints. I think what the miscommunication is here is that the individual believes certain requirements have to be met to obtain certain prizes, while that is not the case.

 

Entering the raffle will have the exact same requirements as previously, only, with Schenanigan’s suggestion introduced, it would give players a choice to opt out of winning a prize if they already have it, or just don’t want it. While yes, with the current way raffles are conducted most players are happy with what they get drawn with. But wouldn’t you be even more excited and happy if it was that prize you’ve been wanting all along? While it may result in a longer wait time, in the end I only see positives to Schenanigan’s suggestion.

[Nalyua]

Ah yes I see what you mean. It did not sound to me like that before. Like I said I personally have preferences, yes, but I still find it kind of weird to be upset because a prize you won is not what you wanted. Might be the way I was educated as a kid. That is why I either happily accept a prize I won or politely decline (or gift it on) instead of doing something else. Though at least it does not impair another person's gameplay.

 

Anyway I am not sure how easy that is to implement in programming. Either you would need to make 6 seperate raffles with seperate entries, including an option to prevent someone winning twice in the same month, or you'd have to do IF-cycles to determine if the person is a yes or a no for the prize selected and do a redraw if not.

 

If atm the prizes are assigned a number 1-6 and the six names drawn get sorted with a number counting up this would completely change the programming.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Nalyua

[LevelsOfViolence]

23 minutes ago, Nalyua said:

you'd have to do IF-cycles to determine if the person is a yes or a no for the prize selected and do a redraw if not.

This is the way I envision it would work.

Assuming current raffle just draws x amount of names (lets say 30) and assigns 5 per each tier, all you would have to do is run something like:

If winnerA is assigned tier1 - true, and winnerA chose to enter for tier1 - true, then the egg goes to them.

If one of these returns false, the script just rerolls the winner until both of the criteria are true - which should be pretty easy. Even if you had to run 1000 iterations/rerolls for each placement (which is really unlikely, since most users would probably enter for all prizes) it shouldn't really be a problem in any capacity whether this information is stored indefinitely or not.

 

Besides, I can't see why you just wouldn't purge said information at the end of each month - or even store the past attempts/rerolls that don't include the winner.

[Hawaiianbabidoll]

38 minutes ago, Nalyua said:

Might be the way I was educated as a kid. That is why I either happily accept a prize I won or politely decline (or gift it on) instead of doing something else.

Essentially what this suggestion is, is a way to auto-decline a prize and gift it to a new winner.

I've entered real life raffles where it was one pool of names and multiple prizes. I entered with the hopes of only getting maybe one or two of the prizes being raffled, and yes, once the prizes I wanted were raffled off, I saw no problem in leaving rather than claim a prize I did not want. They would simply throw out my called ticket and call a new winner if I didn't come up to accept, and I preferred it that way, because the new winner wanted the prize. There's no shame in this, and honestly, better a person who wants the prize than someone who would stuff it in the closet or throw it out, right?

In the case of DC, you could argue that simply abandoning the unwanted egg would be the same thing, but its not. I don't really hunt the ap, and other cave hunters like myself will not catch an AP egg. An auto-decline option like what has been suggested gives everyone, cave hunter or ap hunter, a chance at that re-rolled prize. This in particular is a big reason I am a fan of this idea too as it's fairly beneficial to anyone who doesn't have a preference for prizes since it gives us bonus chances at a win from any re-rolls.