ANSWERED:Allow Prize Choice in Raffle

[Ruffledfeathers]

I think this is a good idea  Support.

I can understand people appreciating any prize, but also those who so desire a specific one.
 

I’d love a silver shim, but am far from upset at what I have! But can understand it would suck a little if you disliked a specific prize/colour and got that one (its sods law). 

[TJ09]

I'm not sure I understand the premise here. It seems like the request here is to have no egg rather than an egg you don't want. Limiting your options would only decrease your chances of winning any egg, and wouldn't really increase the chances of getting the specific egg(s) you want (it doesn't affect the number of prize eggs generated of a given kind. It may decrease the number of people going for the specific egg you want, but I don't suspect this is going to be a commonly-used option so I doubt the pool of people going for e.g. a silver eastern prize would change enough to affect chances of winning).

 

In that case, couldn't you could just abandon or not claim the egg if it's not one you want?

[boscodelta]

3 hours ago, TJ09 said:

I'm not sure I understand the premise here. It seems like the request here is to have no egg rather than an egg you don't want. Limiting your options would only decrease your chances of winning any egg, and wouldn't really increase the chances of getting the specific egg(s) you want (it doesn't affect the number of prize eggs generated of a given kind. It may decrease the number of people going for the specific egg you want, but I don't suspect this is going to be a commonly-used option so I doubt the pool of people going for e.g. a silver eastern prize would change enough to affect chances of winning).

 

In that case, couldn't you could just abandon or not claim the egg if it's not one you want?

 

My take-away from the suggestion was just that you either get the one you want or none at all, so yes you would be correct in that it would decrease your chance at any egg. I agreed with the idea because in essence it would be like saying "I'd rather have nothing than (say a bronze tinsel) potentially take away from the chance of someone getting the bronze tinsel they really wanted.

 

Yes, you could always just abandon it to the AP and someone would be thrilled. I guess the main idea is just "if I win, I definitely get something I want" instead of, "Yes I did win but I already have 3 of these and it would be nice if I could have had a choice in this or nothing then" 

 

Also yes, I doubt that many people would use the system anyways as well but I wouldn't be a very good judge of that either way

 

I may have explained this poorly, if I did then I apologize

 

(Personally this suggestion wouldn't really apply to me anyways, but nevertheless)

[HeatherMarie]

Sure, if you really don't want the specific type you win you could just not collect it or toss it to the AP.... But I think one of the points here is that it's so extremely rare to actually *win* a raffle in the first place, after literally 5+ years of entering every single month it may be devastating to *finally* win only to see what you won after all those years is the one you really didn't want.  If we had the option to choose which prize we wanted to enter for, maybe it wouldn't increase our changes and maybe it might even decrease our chances but at least when we *finally* win we'll know it's what we want and we can celebrate instead of feeling disappointed. 

 

That's how I've understood the idea here, anyways. 

[LevelsOfViolence]

17 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

 it's so extremely rare to actually *win* a raffle in the first place, after literally 5+ years of entering every single month it may be devastating to *finally* win only to see what you won after all those years is the one you really didn't want. If we had the option to choose which prize we wanted to enter for, maybe it wouldn't increase our changes and maybe it might even decrease our chances but at least when we *finally* win we'll know it's what we want and we can celebrate instead of feeling disappointed. 

This is exactly the reason I want this suggestion implemented. I don't care that setting a strict preference lowers my chances to win if it means that I'm actually able to win the egg I want.

Because the way things are right now, for me personally its a coinflip between winning and effectively getting nothing, along with a side effect of potentially depriving the entire playerbase of 1 raffle egg in general if I refuse to claim it outright.

 

[Su_Halcon]

Winning a prize dragon at all after being here since 2009 would be incredibly awesome and of course I would take any of them. But being able to choose would be awesome-on-top, since of course I have favs like probably everyone has.

[Windrunners]

Change of mind

Edited June 5, 2022 by Windrunners

[Fuzzbucket]

8 hours ago, TJ09 said:

I'm not sure I understand the premise here. It seems like the request here is to have no egg rather than an egg you don't want. Limiting your options would only decrease your chances of winning any egg, and wouldn't really increase the chances of getting the specific egg(s) you want (it doesn't affect the number of prize eggs generated of a given kind. It may decrease the number of people going for the specific egg you want, but I don't suspect this is going to be a commonly-used option so I doubt the pool of people going for e.g. a silver eastern prize would change enough to affect chances of winning).

 

In that case, couldn't you could just abandon or not claim the egg if it's not one you want?

I totally agree, actually. My suggestion was just trying to be nice to people who want to have some degree of option. I TOTALLY disagree with Windrunners, as it would be very unfair on a) people not on forum, who have no idea about any of this and b), more importantly, people who happen not to be able to be on line when the draw is made. Think time zones, work, etc. Also - well, one does ASSUME one won't win; I was certainly egg locked the day I was notified of my win.

 

Maybe as another alternative - have a thread where people can trade them  CB for CB ONLY ? Say I hate bronze shimmers and want a gold tin - someone may be out there who feels the exact opposite ?

[Shadowdrake]

2 hours ago, Windrunners said:

That way players can get the prize they want but at the same time, it rewards players who are eagerly refreshing the raffle page at the time of the announcement.

As this is an extremely different suggestion from the OP's idea, it'd probably be best off with its own thread to prevent taking over discussion of the original. However, I have to say I dislike this idea monumentally because it's a complete departure from the raffle's cold fairness in favor of those lucky few who have the time and energy to be on every raffle drawing. Golds would probably vanish by DC morning due to their trade value and anyone who didn't show up the rest of the day would practically be given bronze by default. Given raffle pick-up lasts a whole month and DC is a long-term game, it seems backwards to turn it into a contest of how fast you can claim your winnings. 

 

 

 

 

If a majority of players actually would feel disappointed to not win their "acceptables", this thread's suggestion sounds like a good idea in theory. Probably depends on how the raffle system picks regarding whether it actually comes out fair. If it rolls winners for each tier/species separately, letting people pick (or exclude) multiples shouldn't change the tiered odds per person by much. But if it picks all winners then assigns their tier, it can't be weighted towards the people who pick something specific to keep it fair for the "whatever works" players, so it'd have to discard and reroll declined winners.

 

But speaking as someone who hasn't won and has no preference, I can't imagine someone being pleased to wait another two decades specifically for a silver something even if they wouldn't be pleased with a bronze or gold anyway.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Shadowdrake

[DragonLady86]

While the idea is good in theory, I honestly agree with TJ. Guess who's only won the prize she really would have perfered not to if a choice had been allowed. Guess who also kept it and was happy just to finally win which I think would actually be the reaction of most people even those who claim they'd be disappointed. 

 

How many really dump prizes or dont claim them not because they forgot to come check for a month but because they dont want that prize? And how many people are just thrilled to finally get something even if its not thier favorite?

[schenanigans]

12 hours ago, TJ09 said:

I'm not sure I understand the premise here. It seems like the request here is to have no egg rather than an egg you don't want. Limiting your options would only decrease your chances of winning any egg, and wouldn't really increase the chances of getting the specific egg(s) you want (it doesn't affect the number of prize eggs generated of a given kind. It may decrease the number of people going for the specific egg you want, but I don't suspect this is going to be a commonly-used option so I doubt the pool of people going for e.g. a silver eastern prize would change enough to affect chances of winning).

 

In that case, couldn't you could just abandon or not claim the egg if it's not one you want?

 

In a collection based game that has a huge focus on lineage building for a lot of people, depending on pure RNG to 1) win the raffle and then 2) win the prize that you want sucks. I'm glad some people in this thread don't have preferences for prizes. They are entitled their opinion. But others do. If it takes potentially years just to win one, at least having the option to wait for one of the options that you really wanted would be nice. I honestly don't imagine there will be preferences to the degree that will actually hinder (or boost) anyone's chances of winning by any major degree; but admittedly I don't have any data, so that's just how I perceive the variety in player preferences.

 

Basically yes. If I already am not winning an egg, I'd rather alter my miniscule chance to at least be an egg that feels worthy of the wait. 

 

People have abandoned prizes they didn't want. But saying "you don't like it you don't have to keep it" to a system that's already terrible odds for winning anything is a bad take imo, especially when the only way to get one of the ones they do want still requires them to enter the raffle. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Maybe as another alternative - have a thread where people can trade them  CB for CB ONLY ? Say I hate bronze shimmers and want a gold tin - someone may be out there who feels the exact opposite ?

 

Sure - that would be a great option if not given something like this, feel free to make a thread about it. But I'd rather my thread remain a discussion of my proposal rather than changing and derailing it with different ideas. 

 

 

1 hour ago, DragonLady86 said:

While the idea is good in theory, I honestly agree with TJ. Guess who's only won the prize she really would have perfered not to if a choice had been allowed. Guess who also kept it and was happy just to finally win which I think would actually be the reaction of most people even those who claim they'd be disappointed. 

 

How many really dump prizes or dont claim them not because they forgot to come check for a month but because they dont want that prize? And how many people are just thrilled to finally get something even if its not thier favorite?

 

While I'm glad you were totally okay with whatever prize you won, not everyone is. It might be rare for someone to abandon or not claim a prize they don't want, but I feel more that is indicative of the way the raffle is than it is on people even wanting what they won. This suggestion wouldn't hinder people in any way should they be happy with literally whatever; this would allow others to pick "any prize" if they wish. But because you didn't get the prize option you wanted when you won, you don't imagine it would be nice for others to have that luxury? 

Edited June 5, 2022 by schenanigans

[Fuzzbucket]

6 minutes ago, schenanigans said:

While I'm glad you were totally okay with whatever prize you won, not everyone is. It might be rare for someone to abandon or not claim a prize they don't want, but I feel more that is indicative of the way the raffle is than it is on people even wanting what they won. This suggestion wouldn't hinder people in any way should they be happy with literally whatever; this would allow others to pick "any prize" if they wish. But because you didn't get the prize option you wanted when you won, you don't imagine it would be nice for others to have that luxury? 

 

I have hesitated to say this, because I value the artists and their work - but I was not "happy" with the prize I won, and I would have very much preferred another. That said - I was happy to have won at last. I will be happy if I ever win on the Premium Bonds in the UK - I have held bonds since 1960, and have never ever won, even the smallest prize. (And you think the odds for prize dragons are bad ? ) And I would prefer to win £50k. But if I win a tenner, I'll still be glad to have won. That's the way a raffle is.

[Estellux]

I feel like the "if you don't want it don't keep/accept it" mindset ignores (or at least down plays) a couple of things. If I don't want the prize I get and don't accept it, that's cool it's not on my scroll. But that win could have gone to someone else who would have utilized it, or even wanted it. So instead of me getting it and letting it rot on my scroll or get AP tossed, no one gets it. Which, to my mind, is a huge waste.

 

Now, if I take the option where I pick it up and then AP toss it, there's a few outcomes that I can think of off the top of my head. I can toss it, not say anything, and someone gets lucky. Maybe it's some who wants it real bad, maybe it's someone who'll let it rot on their scroll. If I toss it and let people know so they can stalk it, then the people who tend to be more skilled/lucky with that get it instead. I can't speak for everyone, but I am God awful at AP stalking, so I'd be out of the running to get something like that. Again, you never know who would get it, and it might be someone who's already collected several prizes this way, or it might be the one guy who would love it to pieces. The final option I can think of is drop it under AP time, coordinate with the person I would want it to go to, and maybe, MAYBE they're quick enough and get it. I've seen pink sapphires get ganked out from under people though, so that's not a guarantee. In the scenarios I can think of (and there might be others currently available that I'm just not thinking of), there's a chance that someone who doesn't have a prize and would love it to bits would get it, but it's not a guarantee.

 

 

As for overall winning odds, I have this thought: My odds of winning the thing I want probably wouldn't change whether I say I want it or not. My odds of winning a silver shim or gold tin or whatever probably wouldn't change whether or not I say I want them. They're still abysmal. But I'd rather say up front "I don't want a bronze prize, so if you roll it and that's what I won, don't bother with telling me I won it because I'll have to go to the don't accept/keep option. Just give it to someone else who would want it." You'd essentially automate the rigmarole of me having to give up the prize and just give someone else that happy notification off the bat.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Rosastrasza

[Fuzzbucket]

15 minutes ago, Rosastrasza said:

I feel like the "if you don't want it don't keep/accept it" mindset ignores (or at least down plays) a couple of things. If I don't want the prize I get and don't accept it, that's cool it's not on my scroll. But that win could have gone to someone else who would have utilized it, or even wanted it. So instead of me getting it and letting it rot on my scroll or get AP tossed, no one gets it. Which, to my mind, is a huge waste.

 

Now, if I take the option where I pick it up and then AP toss it, there's a few outcomes that I can think of off the top of my head. I can toss it, not say anything, and someone gets lucky.

Which puts AP hunters in the exact same position as we all are when we enter the raffle. Ask Amazonwarrior, who once got one from the AP ! What's wrong with that ? Someone will get it. You suggest that maybe "no-one gets it" which isn't going to happen.

 

15 minutes ago, Rosastrasza said:

 

Maybe it's some who wants it real bad, maybe it's someone who'll let it rot on their scroll. If I toss it and let people know so they can stalk it, then the people who tend to be more skilled/lucky with that get it instead. I can't speak for everyone, but I am God awful at AP stalking, so I'd be out of the running to get something like that. Again, you never know who would get it, and it might be someone who's already collected several prizes this way, or it might be the one guy who would love it to pieces. The final option I can think of is drop it under AP time, coordinate with the person I would want it to go to, and maybe, MAYBE they're quick enough and get it. I've seen pink sapphires get ganked out from under people though, so that's not a guarantee. In the scenarios I can think of (and there might be others currently available that I'm just not thinking of), there's a chance that someone who doesn't have a prize and would love it to bits would get it, but it's not a guarantee.

As long  as someone gets who wants it - that's a win, surely ? Once an egg is no longer on your scroll you don't get to say what happens to it.

 

15 minutes ago, Rosastrasza said:

As for overall winning odds, I have this thought: My odds of winning the thing I want probably wouldn't change whether I say I want it or not. My odds of winning a silver shim or gold tin or whatever probably wouldn't change whether or not I say I want them. They're still abysmal. But I'd rather say up front "I don't want a bronze prize, so if you roll it and that's what I won, don't bother with telling me I won it because I'll have to go to the don't accept/keep option. Just give it to someone else who would want it." You'd essentially automate the rigmarole of me having to give up the prize and just give someone else that happy notification off the bat.

 

I'm sorry - but I REALLY can't see that as such a terrible burden - as you say, wins happen so rarely, you'd probably only have to do that once in your whole life ! It's just like holidays and celestials when you have to pick one to keep.

 

I was in favour of asking not to win something in particular, but I'm sliding rapidly round to leave it as it is.... It's a matter of luck anyway.

[boscodelta]

1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Which puts AP hunters in the exact same position as we all are when we enter the raffle. Ask Amazonwarrior, who once got one from the AP ! What's wrong with that ? Someone will get it. You suggest that maybe "no-one gets it" which isn't going to happen.

 

As long  as someone gets who wants it - that's a win, surely ? Once an egg is no longer on your scroll you don't get to say what happens to it.

 

 

I'm sorry - but I REALLY can't see that as such a terrible burden - as you say, wins happen so rarely, you'd probably only have to do that once in your whole life ! It's just like holidays and celestials when you have to pick one to keep.

 

I was in favour of asking not to win something in particular, but I'm sliding rapidly round to leave it as it is.... It's a matter of luck anyway.

 

I wouldn't use this suggestion myself; that said, the implementation of this suggestion wouldn't impact me in any way let alone negatively. So if others are in favour of it, it costs me nothing to support it

[Ripple_Tiger]

My mental image of this, OP correct me if I'm wrong, was just a simple set of check boxes before you entered the raffle, 6 of them for the types of dragons, then one for any. Or you don't have to interact with them at all and just enter and it'll default you to any. It won't hinder any one in any way, and make it feel more like a real raffle with the different prizes you can enter in to. It won't change the rates or anything, just a QOL thing for the people with preferences or have already won and don't want the same type of dragon again.

[purplehaze]

Sure, if you get something you don't want you can always not accept it. But that means a wasted chance at anyone getting that Prize.

You can toss it to the AP. Nice gesture. And maybe it goes to someone who will treasure it. But I have seen too many nice eggs, even 2G Prizes and Pink Sapphires, that have died after I sent them to the AP, because whoever it was that picked them up either didn't care or didn't know how to raise them. So there is no guarantee that it would even get raised to adulthood. I know once it leaves your scroll it is no longer yours to control, but still it would be sad to have a CB Prize die untended.

 

I see no harm in this suggestion for people who don't choose to use it. I understand the frustration of someone who may have waited years to get a raffle win and finally get one that they really don't like. I think it could feel much worse than never getting one at all.

[MissK.]

Just a small addition on the point of "just AP it if you don't want it"...that does keep you locked for 5 hours. I guess that's "small" on the grand scheme of things but it's just an unnecessary extra step when you don't want the prize but don't want it to go to waste. Why should the person who won be locked out of their egg slot for 5 hours just to abandon a prize, when their win could have simply automatically gone to someone else?

 

It's simple enough and doesn't have any negative consequences. Support, even though I probably wouldn't use it myself.

[Adrak]

I like the idea of adding check boxes for preference. I love silver and bronze tinsels and am not really a fan of the look of shimmers. If I could narrow it to those for myself as possible prizes, that would be fantastic. I only see this being a positive for people that want to aim for specific dragons and no impact at all for people who would take any. Full support~

[Hawaiianbabidoll]

I do like the idea of the check boxes, so you click which ones you want and if you win a prize, it compares the prize to your choices. If the prize is not among the ones you want, it auto re-rolls to a new winner and checks their list. Default would have all options checked, so if you didn't want, say, gold tinsel, you'd have to go to the raffle page and uncheck it.

Now something that might be harder to code, but might be slightly better than 'don't tell me if I won something I don't want' - if you win 1st place (gold) but you have checked you do not want gold, it will automatically demote you to 2nd place and give you a silver, and if you won 2nd but have selected no silver, it will demote you to 3rd place and check to see if you want bronze. If you won 3rd place and have no bronze selected, you'd demote to 'non-winner' and it would just re-roll a new winner.
All first place prizes and re-rolls would be given out first, remaining second place prizes and their re-rolls next, and then remaining third place prizes last. Since it would be based on the user's check list, it would be automated rather than rely on users needing to race each other to choose.
Basically, the same number of first, second, and third place winners are selected, but users who actually win auto exchange their prize for a lesser prize if they don't want the higher prize.

[Astral_Skies]

1 hour ago, Hawaiianbabidoll said:

Basically, the same number of first, second, and third place winners are selected, but users who actually win auto exchange their prize for a lesser prize if they don't want the higher prize.

My worry with this is what if somebody won a third place prize, but a user above them didn’t want silver, so was hence demoted to bronze, but there were no more slots left? Would the user who won the bronze be kicked out or would the user who won the silver be kicked? Or would they be swapped and checked against lists again?

[PrincessLucy]

I love my silver Shimmer. I love all the prizes.

 

I know some people don't want the kind they hate, but don't forget that you can trade 2nd gens with someone else. That is what I do to increase my poor of prizes/kin.

[Hawaiianbabidoll]

1 hour ago, Astral_Skies said:

My worry with this is what if somebody won a third place prize, but a user above them didn’t want silver, so was hence demoted to bronze, but there were no more slots left? Would the user who won the bronze be kicked out or would the user who won the silver be kicked? Or would they be swapped and checked against lists again?

This is why I said prizes should be given out in order, specifically so this wouldn't happen. Winners wouldn't all be chosen at once, but rather in chunks.

Basically, third place wouldn't be chosen until after all previous places have been given out. So if a second place winner demoted to third place, a new second place winner would be chosen and the demoted winner would take one of the third place spots before third place was actually chosen. Once all second places have been given out successfully, any third place spots remaining would then be rolled.

So say there are 40 prizes: 5 first place, 10 second place, and 20 third place.
5 first place winners get chosen first, 1 opts for no gold and gets demoted to second place. A new winner is chosen, so 6 users have won at this point, 5 first places and 1 second place.
Now that all 5 golds have been claimed, the remaining 9 second places are rolled.
Ok, so now say 3 of these second place winners do not want a silver. They are dropped to 3rd place, and 3 new second places are rolled.
At this point, we would have 5 first place winners, 10 second place winners, and 3 third place winners.
Now the remaining 17 third place winners are chosen, and any that opted out of a bronze would be demoted to non-winners and be re-rolled until all 17 places are filled.

Does that make sense?

 

[Aie]

Support! There are obviously many users hoping to get a certain type of Prize out of the raffle, myself included. Both of @Hawaiianbabidoll's ideas for implementation are great, and I'd be happy with either one.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Aie

[Nalyua]

On 6/3/2022 at 5:28 PM, WWECornSerpent said:

 It would probably increase my chances of getting any of the other 5.  I'm just surprised to hear that players are disappointed at winning a prize because it isn't what they wanted.  ...  A prize is a prize, and winning ANY prize should be treasured, IMO. 

 

This. It sounds like sort of ungrateful to me, you are given a gift and pout because it's not exactly what you wanted? I would love to get a Prize. Alas, probably not gonna happen.

 

What I would think works is to refuse the Prize and that egg being reraffled for the other participants.