ANSWERED:Cap market prices

[Nokturna]

Yes please. Support.

[biruko]

Full support for this.

 

I'm now at a point that I'm literally 115 shards short to get a Stat from Market - and when I get to only 15 shards short, every week Stat price goes up by another 100 shards, and I'm back to being 115 shards short every week. It keeps happening for a while, and it makes me give up to try getting Stat and just buy something else I can afford (as I didn't buy anything in Market for months, because I'm saving up every week).

So, I would love some limit to which Stats price would stop increasing, or at least making some cooldown that would stop they price rising every week (if price rise in this week, then for at least 2-3 weeks it shouldn't rise anymore so at least some people might catch up to this price). Or maybe just rising price once a month and not every week would be more reasonable to do? Anything that would improve current situation would be a good idea for me.

As others says, I really understand that price shouldn't be fixed and should change on Market, but if price increase every week for one breed, it makes it impossible for anyone to get this breed.

I love Market, it was blirriant idea thanks to that I could finnaly get my own CB Gold or Silver, but recently seeing price going up every week makes it hard to save up enough shards. Some changes would be really apreciates.

 

Please TJ or moderators, let us know if at least slowing rise of Stat price could be done, so it won't rise 100 shards every week

[D-wing]

Full support. Also suggest that set the price increasing every week as 50 but not 100, or increase the weekly limit so we can catch up the price slowly.

[oxoniensis]

It isn’t something that affects me personally, as I’ve managed to get most of my rares through breeding/trading, and just use the market for cheap rares (new Gemshards in particular), but I wholeheartedly support this. It is in line with the original purpose of the market, and would save a lot of frustration for those struggling to save for a precious rare.

[wiks]

I like the price increase cool down concept to offset the weekly cap vs price increase (100 currency for both).

 

It took me almost a year to buy a Stat but I knew that going in and it is supposed to be rare.  I'm a recently returned player and happy with a slow & steady game experience so maybe that's why I don't mind that there is one dragon in the game steadily going up. I'd be more frustrated by across the board price increases or individual dragon species cap (only 1 leetle tree makes me sad - I want a forest! /joking but not )

 

[Reykur]

Would love to see this implemented aswell!

I was lucky to get the ones I have on my scroll. And it's not like you can just easily trade for one, seeing what is asked for them. Even if you are after a bred one and don't care about cb. So the market it is and honestly currently it feels like a fairy placing the egg on your scroll is more likely than catch up with the price. ^^°
But just generally a cap that makes market eggs obtainable after half a year or even after a full year of constantly playing and saving your shards seems fair without devalueing any breed too much. The cap could even differ for breeds. Like the super rare ones get the 1year cap and the common ones the half year cap? Even if that means that at a certain point quite a few people would suddenly be able to buy one all at once, that means all their shards are spent and it takes them a good while to get there again. So technically if it stayed up there every user would be able to still get one max per year from the market.

[ShorahNagi]

I'm on the fence here.

 

On the one hand, a cap would give people a final goal they need to reach to get the egg they want guaranteed. [Say the market price for a dragon is capped at 5,000 shards. I know I need to wait nearly a year to buy my egg assuming the price doesn't drop]

 

On the other hand, adding a cap could also open up arguments about the cap being lowered, different caps for different rarities, and other similar arguments. Which while it wouldn't affect the main issue (difficult/"unobtainable" eggs) could lead to further upset between the various styles of players.

 

Despite the above, I will admit I'm leaning more towards support, if only because it would make the market a more viable source of rare eggs for players of all kinds.

[yanderella]

I support this entirely! It would make Stats feel obtainable.

[Skadi]

Support a reasonable cap honestly.

 

I don't really like market rares being too hard to get. More than 4k shards seems a little ridiculous for a breed when you can only get 100 shards per week. I usually meet my shard limit just from casual play and CB hunting, so...

[BringsTheSnow]

Full support! I think an upper limit of 3600 (9 months) or 5200 (12 months) would be completely reasonable. 

[blah]

I just bit the bullet and bought one because I am one of those "been around forever, never used any shards, were on a hiatus" players but I won't be able to buy another one for a breeding pair, I only have like 900 shards left. So yeah, we all know what happens on this site when something goes absolutely super rare and it isn't pretty. I don't really care what solution we go with but I'd like one.

[DaniBoo]

I support this! I don't see a reason why any egg, even the rarest of breeds, should take any player longer than a year to obtain through the market. 5200 shards is a hefty amount as is, and you'll only reach that amount in a year if you are active enough to be earning 100 shards per week. For casual players, it could take so much longer to even come close without a cap. 

 

I feel that a cap would just make eggs much more attainable for all levels of player activity

[caseytalk]

On 1/23/2022 at 8:32 AM, ShorahNagi said:

 

On the other hand, adding a cap could also open up arguments about the cap being lowered, different caps for different rarities, and other similar arguments. Which while it wouldn't affect the main issue (difficult/"unobtainable" eggs) could lead to further upset between the various styles of players.

 

There are people who managed to get a CB breeding pair from the start or to buy them when the price was significantly lower.  Are you saying that they, the fortunate ones, should continue to reap their fortunes by being able to trade Stat eggs for other rare dragons while the unfortunate ones should never have the chance to get even one?   That appears to be what you are saying, because without a cap, the price has been going up 100 every week and the max a person can earn is 100 a week.   Am I understanding your concerns properly?  If the cap for any dragon is set at 9 months worth of shards (3600), then there need be no arguments over which dragons are capped where.  They all would have the same maximum (not minimum) price of 3600 shards.  What upset do you foresee? 

[Fuzzbucket]

52 minutes ago, caseytalk said:

There are people who managed to get a CB breeding pair from the start or to buy them when the price was significantly lower.  Are you saying that they, the fortunate ones, should continue to reap their fortunes by being able to trade Stat eggs for other rare dragons while the unfortunate ones should never have the chance to get even one?   That appears to be what you are saying, because without a cap, the price has been going up 100 every week and the max a person can earn is 100 a week.   Am I understanding your concerns properly?  If the cap for any dragon is set at 9 months worth of shards (3600), then there need be no arguments over which dragons are capped where.  They all would have the same maximum (not minimum) price of 3600 shards.  What upset do you foresee? 

 

You really think those of us who were that lucky are managing to do anything much with trades ?

 

At the beginning - when they were also quite cheap - they bred stats - but not much any more:

 

https://dragcave.net/progeny/Kd2Zh

 

And for the record, most of mine I bred for free. I still have a list of people I want to gift them to. I think I haven't got a single one since March last year - and I breed them a lot. So please don't make assumptions here. I'll even add you to my list -= but don't hold your breath. In terms of stat eggs, they are reluctant breeders, to put it mildly.

[purplehaze]

34 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

You really think those of us who were that lucky are managing to do anything much with trades ?

Yeah, I don't think people are really getting very rich off the Stats they have.

 

But I think it is a poor argument against a cap to say that people would argue about the caps. We argue about everything! That is not a reason for TJ to do nothing.

Edited January 28, 2022 by purplehaze
I need to read my post before hitting save!

[Falorni]

Support as long as said cap is still reasonably high - maybe 5200 as someone said?.  Making users save up for over a year to buy a dragon would be overkill, even for something as rare as Stats.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Falorni

[HeatherMarie]

9 hours ago, purplehaze said:

But I think it is a poor argument against a cap to say that people would argue about the caps. We argue about everything! That is not a reason for TJ to do nothing.

 

Agreed, pretty much every single new thing ever implemented on DC has had arguments/debates/people who don't like it. That's just human nature, really, there will always be someone unhappy about it or who wants more (like different caps or whatever). That's not a reason to not implement something that could help the majority of the playerbase. 

 

I do think a very simple across the board cap would help a lot, not just in terms of actually being able to buy certain things but also just in terms of overall morale... It's a lot more fun/exciting/etc to know you can work towards a goal and eventually get it, to know that even if the individual goalposts are moved (ie prices fluctuate) it will never go beyond a specific point. That gives a nice concrete goal to look forward to, instead of getting *thisclose* but never actually achieving it because the price just keeps increasing. 

[Natayah]

I would like to challenge anyone to quote a real life example of market caps of any type fixing not only the problems they address, but caused no other problems that then led to other problems just as large if not worse. Because I haven't found one. But my household has lived through the Jimmy Carter 1970's and the NYC actual City with very high crime rate rent controls and gas shortages, and they were bandaids not only on festering wounds, but made the wounds far worse and longer recovery. 

 

Economics of Supply and Demand are pretty simple. Even on Games. The issue is not the Market. The Market was one of many player and admin created, suggested, and implemented options to fix this issue and offer alternatives to **dragons who's demand exceeded to vastly far exceeded their supply causing very high negative consequences** for whatever reason. It is why we have Monthly, instead of Yearly, Raffles for Prizes. It is why there is an algorithm that expands the Prize Pot of Potential winners based on entries each month. That is why there are Player Raffles and Gifting Games and just Super nice People and Gifting & Breeding Request Threads to help with this. Also we release a TON more dragons a LOT more often - compared to just - 5 years ago? maybe less? We have so many I cannot even keep up, and I think this is fantastic! Also organized *intended beneficial* breeding events to provide sought after and helpful eggs easier, lower AP times & sometimes even help with ratios/mechanics, and other intended to be positive and not create walls of fury dragons.

 

It may have taken awhile, but there was a lot of work and effort and patience and other put into the things.

 

So you can make whatever suggestion - but does your suggestion get to the real question - why is the supply excessively so out of sync with the demand. The Dragon Market did a really good job to fix it with Golds and Silvers and Others. Sure, there are other dragons with very very high amount (usually things that only pop in one biome but have lots of other ways people can still get them, even as CB - like Trios, Chickens, Dinos, etc. - The prices on Market may seem Crazy, but you **CAN** get them trading or gifting with a little bit of patience because they are common enough and caught enough), but it is the Dragon Creator/Spriter and the Admin and the mechanics that determine the supply. 

 

The other Xenos have been generally very underpriced (considering their vast demand at the time) on the market once they finally got on there (be aware, to be fair to history, it did take them awhile to get into the market and things were crazy for demand the original Xenos - I believe the spriter stated on the anniversary how delighted they were with the player base response to them because they didn't expect *that* high of a response to them). The current Xenos are very underpriced considering their demand and supply on in the Biomes and "Trade Markets" vs. the Dragon Market, in my opinion too. It allows me to stock up on them since - I was very sad on the new release that I missed the release and got some weirdo egg in the second wave but kept them because "that is what I caught" and would get them later through the market - not realizing that gamble on choice would put me in a very fortunate position. I've been playing for over a decade - for all the years I've been playing, I can count zero.. maybe one if you count holidays -  other releases where I got that amazingly lucky. 

 

And I still recognize the demand insane and needs to be fixed sooner rather than later. Because if you don't, the player base, just like with real life supply and demand (which we world wide experience in then pandemic between supply and rising prices and inflation) had bad effects in game. People get disgruntled. People voice their opposition. People become overly vocal as they become more upset. People leave the game. Retention drops. People play less. People are generally less happy, and that reflects even in small ways. Happier more engaged players generally lead to happier and more kind and friendly actions, which further cements player base happiness and retention. We've seen it plenty of times in the past, hence why so many things have been put in to help fix the issue. People who aren't happy also cheat and try to break the game. They do illegal activities. They run bots. They try multiple scrolls, they are more tempted to even look, and then try, out those illegal options in hopes of getting the special egg. And people who seem to stick out as obvious abusers - maybe they get caught, maybe they don't, but it causes the player base to talk about the illegal options more and become more disgruntled. 

 

So, I do not support market caps since it almost caused me to have my housing situation pulled overnight last week and I personally spent over a decade clawing myself back up to the great prestige of upper lower class or lower middle class in America, which is a great status of living compared to the rest of the world, and I'm a little personally very sore and get my hackles up over the topic, as is my other half. 

 

So - why don't we just ask why there such a HUGE Gap between supply vs. demand for these specific dragons and how we might fix that before we try a bandaid that will actually make the problem worse, in my opinion based on many economists and historical resources. I do apologize to anyone who do not feel supply and demand do not necessarily work this way and/or can be resolved greatly via various caps and controls. This is just my personal experience with life and this game and education.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Natayah

[HeatherMarie]

I personally don't think using real world examples is a great comparison here, DC is regulated by actual computer coding and whatever internal calculations go on that we don't know about and that can't really be compared to the real world. Things on DC can be changed, fixed, tweaked simply by code and such, while the real world cannot. That said, the underlying problem here can probably be summed up as 'ratios', which we all know from experience isn't going to drastically change/fixed anytime soon, so asking for other ways to mitigate the problems instead is the only thing we can really do. 

[KageSora]

14 hours ago, caseytalk said:

Are you saying that they, the fortunate ones, should continue to reap their fortunes by being able to trade Stat eggs for other rare dragons while the unfortunate ones should never have the chance to get even one?

 

I doubt it, what they appear to be saying is "if we implement a cap we open ourselves to the possibility of people debating further changes to the cap or implementation of different caps and other such things"

 

Which is kind of silly, IMO.  By not having a cap we have already opened ourselves to discussions of "how to we fix the issue of this dragon being virtually unattainable due to prices rising almost as fast as people can earn them?"

 

And this isn't the only breed people have discussed and argued over "how can we tweak the market to include, exclude, or alter pricing on".  Heck, I'm pretty sure there's been discussion of increasing the weekly shard cap or of extra ways to gain shards, too, so it's not even the first time people have discussed shards in relation to the market.

 

There's going to be debate and argument no matter what, if trying to avoid that is reason enough to never consider implementing new mechancis or tweaking existing ones, then might as well shut the entire site down forever because that's about the only way to put an end to people suggesting additions and refinements to mechanics.

[UnicornMaiden]

I don't think real world housing economics has any relevance to this discussion. There is no real world larger society or infrastructure or anything like that involved here. There is no physical product that has any real factors affecting its availability or any impact from its production, nor any real currency that has any actual value outside of buying dragon eggs. There's just the game market and the player base, and the market exists to serve the purposes of making the game more accessible and enjoyable.

 

To me, trying to apply real world economics to the game market makes as much sense as trying to apply real world animal breeding ethics to lineage projects.

[purplehaze]

11 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

It's a lot more fun/exciting/etc to know you can work towards a goal and eventually get it, to know that even if the individual goalposts are moved (ie prices fluctuate) it will never go beyond a specific point. That gives a nice concrete goal to look forward to, instead of getting *thisclose* but never actually achieving it because the price just keeps increasing. 

Really, this is the whole crux of the issue. That "just out of reach and never getting closer" frustration.

Of course, Stats being in high demand drives a lot of it, I am sure. Still even Golds, which were the "gold standard" before, did not remain unattainable in the market for long. In fact their price came down rather quickly after the first few rounds of players were able to earn the shards to buy them. And they never rose week after week after week at just the same rate that players were earning shards.

 

And I don't think that setting a ceiling on prices is going to make the whole market come crashing down. After all, people will still need to work for a long time to earn the shards needed and there will not be a sudden rush of people buying all at once. And even if there are quite a few poeple who are able to buy them once, it will be a long time before they can buy another. I have no problem with rare dragons like Stats costing a year's worth of shards, as long as you can be assured that at the end of that year you can actually get one. As it is now, it sort of feels like that hamster on the wheel.

Edited January 29, 2022 by purplehaze

[Jazeki]

My stats breed pretty poorly as-is. I checked one pairing and they had produced two stats in a year's worth of time. As such, I won't be cornering any markets any time soon. 

 

I'm pretty sure that a cap of some sort isn't going to destroy our DC "economy."  The worry here seems very similar to the idea that adding the market or adding in the holiday biome would ruin the DC "economy" as well.... but they exist.

 

And in this case, I agree that real-world economy arguments don't work here--at least for me. Me trying to buy a stat or a gold or whatever thing is not comparable to me working to pay my mortgage or other bills so that I can survive. I could jokingly say that saving up for a stat is like trying to pay off my student loans in that I keep throwing money at it and yet, nothing happens. But again, my real-world money concerns won't make buying a stat any easier or harder. 

[caseytalk]

On 1/28/2022 at 9:00 AM, Fuzzbucket said:

 

You really think those of us who were that lucky are managing to do anything much with trades ?

 

You have a breeding pair that have produced three stat offspring.  I do not have any and have no reasonable prospects of obtaining even one.  Yes, I think you are lucky.  Would you rather be in my position?  It is kind of you to give some away.  It definitely is.  I still think that yes, you are more fortunate than those of us who, without a cap, will likely never be able to obtain one.   You don't put bred ones up in the market to obtain other rares and instead very generously give them away, but some of the people who have breeding pairs do, and you could if you wished.  

 

Do you think that people, such as yourself, who have a breeding pair that have produced stat offspring will somehow be harmed if the rest of us could be certain we could get single one if we saved up long enough?  Because that is what it appears you are saying when you state that "it ...  could lead to further upset between the various styles of players."  If that's not what you meant by that, what upset do you foresee? 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

No - I support this suggestion, actually, if you bother to look back. But the idea that those of us who have stats can command the market is wrong, is all. We may be very lucky and manage to get one to trade twice a year, perhaps. And I have traded tor 2nd gens with PB golds. I have seen trades offering CB stats for neglecteds, too - not that I have ever managed to make one of those. It doesn't have to be a stat to get a trade.