Jump to content
caseytalk

ANSWERED:Cap market prices

Recommended Posts

On 4/24/2022 at 6:07 AM, Guillotine said:

Magmas were always wildly priced but they also never steadily increased like Stats do. Their prices have been absurd, but mostly stable. Stats don't have even that.

 

Yup, this exactly. And it illustrates why Stats are the main reason people are jumping on this suggestion. Magmas were ridiculously highly priced to begin with, and fluctuated up and down and were the most expensive things in the Market for a long time.... But they were at least fairly *stable* in their pricing. Their price was crazy-high from the beginning and it changed up and down but it *never* just consistently rose for months at a time. If Magmas had behaved that way I'm sure it would've prompted a similar suggestion like this. 

 

That's honestly the main point that I support a 'cap' for, for all I care Magmas can stay where they are, Golds/Silvers are already very reasonably priced, and even Stats are (hopefully!) on their way down... But an overall cap would guarantee that even the super-high prices would at least stay relatively stable and we wouldn't have these situations where a fairly new breed just increases and increases into ridiculousness. 

Share this post


Link to post

Agreed.  I created this topic not because of one species but because I think that there should be a maximum that any egg should cost in the market.  None should take a year's shards to buy.  We talked about stats because they were the example.

Share this post


Link to post

Bumping this as there has not been any response from site management.  Does site management think that it is unreasonable that the price of eggs in the market be capped at under a year? The original idea was that the longest it should take to save up for an egg would be 6 months, but that was clearly exceeded and there are two eggs right now that exceed that.  Again, this is not about any one egg.  I think that no egg should take so long to buy.  I support the premise that the primary sources of eggs should be the cave, trading, and breeding, but after trying for eggs those way for months at a time, it's good that the market exists for an alternative.  It really seems excessive to me, and to many on this thread, that the wait times are as long as they are. 

 

Again, I would really appreciate some feedback to this idea from site management.  Thank you for your attention to this question.  @TJ09?  Please?

Edited by caseytalk

Share this post


Link to post

Staterae eggs have dropped quite a bit. They're still expensive, but they're about the same as Magma now.

Share this post


Link to post

That doesn't really change the need for a cap.

 

There's absolutely no reason to believe they won't go back up to something completely unreasonable again.

Share this post


Link to post

How about two suggestions:

1: A cap of 5200 for any single dragon

2: Increase weekly shards to 200/week (most of the time, I'm hitting 100 sometime on Monday).

 

That would bring it back to taking 6 months for the most elusive dragons, while also making it just a bit more difficult to max out every week.

Share this post


Link to post

Yes to 1; no to 2, 100 is enough. (I hit it early in the week too, but still.)

Share this post


Link to post

If I was going to support any "additional shards", I think it would have to be through actions that expressly benefit others. Adding rare eggs to the pool, removing commons, clicking eggs that have been in the ap or cave for a while. Something that would counteract the "why click ap eggs when I can buy one" effect.

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, _Charky said:

If I was going to support any "additional shards", I think it would have to be through actions that expressly benefit others. Adding rare eggs to the pool, removing commons, clicking eggs that have been in the ap or cave for a while. Something that would counteract the "why click ap eggs when I can buy one" effect.

"Benefit others" is subjective, though.

 

"Removing commons" actually hurts people who are looking for those commons for lineage reasons, for example.

Share this post


Link to post

I think, due to a large part to this thread, the Xeno Prices were lowered. I think there were a lot points that were raised that showed great concern echoed across a good portion of the active members of the community, which really matters. However - Demanding answers for every general suggestion (and this is a general suggestion to cap all market prices, Stats just happened to be the primary example used and most obvious, and that was fixed) isn't going to mean an answer will be given by the Admin staff. Even if all you want is an answer to the Stats from TJ himself, I feel - that happens less frequently. I understand you may feel impassioned, but TJ doesn't always answer direct questions, and doesn't always announce site changes or reasons behind them (hence why there is another Thread where users post when they notice things change).

 

So I'm glad they dropped in price, I'm glad this thread help accomplish that, and that is more than many general request suggestions get, especially that quickly. And from here, I know the suggestion hasn't been implemented, and it can continue now that there was one primary issue that drove most peoples' suggestions, to look beyond that and consider it beyond that how you would want that implemented.

 

That said, I think raising concerns this large are fantastic. With the exception of Stats, I have 100% have always been able to logic the reasons, understand, and even feel the prices were justified. You don't have to feel that way, but - I can follow the steps of the logic tree, and its based on logical steps, therefore, it makes sense. It's ok if you disagree or dislike it, but there is a logic to it. And I felt the Stats were out of alignment of what the Admins, Game Running People, Stat/Xeno Creators/Artists, Community and those who had suggested and spent years helping to design the Dragon market had intended in that logic and strategic mission/goal of all involved. And in that sort of case, I think questions really need to be raised to show that concern. However, sometimes the answer is that it gets fixed and that is it. You may not necessarily get a written response. But it was a Player Suggestion implemented rather quickly considering it wasn't causing the site to shut down. That says a lot. I think that is quite a win and shouldn't be discounted, even if that was never the OP's intended purpose or others who wish to see it implemented beyond Stats.

Edited by Natayah

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, KageSora said:

"Benefit others" is subjective, though.

 

"Removing commons" actually hurts people who are looking for those commons for lineage reasons, for example.

I thought it was quite obvious that I didn't mean removing as in "smashing anagallis eggs" but rather "picking up and raising to adulthood that brimstone that's probably otherwise going to be there for like 3 hours". By common I don't just mean "common", I mean pre-removal frill "oh god why are there so many of these" common. I was very much thinking the top and bottom 5-10 breeds or so at any given time, so that it would still have minimal impact on availability. My mistake, I forgot that people here don't interpret things the way I mean them.

 

The other option, of course, would be to reward the breeds which are needed to help balance the ratios.

Edited by _Charky

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, _Charky said:

I thought it was quite obvious that I didn't mean removing as in "smashing anagallis eggs" but rather "picking up and raising to adulthood that brimstone that's probably otherwise going to be there for like 3 hours". By common I don't just mean "common", I mean pre-removal frill "oh god why are there so many of these" common. I was very much thinking the top and bottom 5-10 breeds or so at any given time, so that it would still have minimal impact on availability. My mistake, I forgot that people here don't interpret things the way I mean them.

 

The other option, of course, would be to reward the breeds which are needed to help balance the ratios.

I never said you meant "smashing"

 

The fact of the matter is that if people bunt commons for a lineage, that becomes infinitely harder if suddenly a ton of other people decide they want that breed as well, such as if they get rewarded for it.  Honestly, smashing or raising doesn't change the fact that you'd suddenly have more competition which always sucks.  Happens with BSAs getting added and alts and such, if the reward was lucrative enough it would happen here, too.  I thought this was obvious logic, clearly I was mistaken on that.

 

That doesn't mean it's inherently a bad idea, just pointing that you can't actually say it's objectively good for everybody since there are, in fact, players who actively hunt out those breeds (we just can't pick them up 24/7) who would find it much more frustrating to suddenly have more competition for breeds they currently collect.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, KageSora said:

I never said you meant "smashing"

 

The fact of the matter is that if people bunt commons for a lineage, that becomes infinitely harder if suddenly a ton of other people decide they want that breed as well, such as if they get rewarded for it.  Honestly, smashing or raising doesn't change the fact that you'd suddenly have more competition which always sucks.  Happens with BSAs getting added and alts and such, if the reward was lucrative enough it would happen here, too.  I thought this was obvious logic, clearly I was mistaken on that.

 

That doesn't mean it's inherently a bad idea, just pointing that you can't actually say it's objectively good for everybody since there are, in fact, players who actively hunt out those breeds (we just can't pick them up 24/7) who would find it much more frustrating to suddenly have more competition for breeds they currently collect.

My poin remains that if it's common enough that people picking them up for the reward causes issues with availablity, it's not common enough for the reward. The people making hyper common lineages must have been slacking lately. Clearly this suggestion will never work, though, so there's no point in going into it further.

Edited by _Charky

Share this post


Link to post
On 5/18/2022 at 5:11 AM, Natayah said:

With the exception of Stats, I have 100% have always been able to logic the reasons, understand, and even feel the prices were justified.

I am a relatively new player, joining on Oct 02, 2020, so I don't know what discussions the community had on market and prices before, but I could see the following logic behind Stats:

1)Stats are the new rarest dragon in the game (surpassing gold dragons).
I think this is pretty self-evident. They are supposed to be hard to get, even from market (one could even say: "especially from market, because market is supposed to be only a supplement").

2)Stats are in a very high demand.
I don't have any numbers of course, but I think this is demonstrated by the existence of this thread, people saying "I am ready to pay 5600" before the price even got there, people saying that they finally bought Stat despite it's current price, people saying that they are still saving (and I guess they would keep saving no matter the price climb). I think it is pretty natural for Stats to be in high demand as the newly released rarest dragon in the game that people enjoy the looks of; they also have the xeno-roulette breeding mechanics that make them more interesting and harder to
breed.

3)Stats' price was too low for too long.
Here's the price chart that @PonyTales posted in "Watching the Market" thread. (I hope they don't mind me posting it here.)

Spoiler

KTyGETm.png

We can see that 5600 price is nothing new despite being more rare than gold dragons, Stats started at a "mere" 1200 for an egg. The price was seemingly frozen in place for a couple months, and then when the hike started, the increase was consistent, but not too extremely steep. Maybe the market is programmed to have limited steepness of price growth.

So to summarize: the initial price was generous and temporarily frozen, the demand far exceeded the intended supply and when the market was allowed to do it's job it couldn't just make a huge jump to shrink the number of purchases and hit the intended supply as fast as possible.
-------------------------------------
Some more thoughts on this topic:
-"The Stat price will keep climbing forever".
-You can't prove that.

-"Rares should cost around 6 months worth of shards, and that logic was broken".
-Stats are not just any rare: they are the rarest dragon in the game, above any other rarity tier. So I don't think that rule is necessarily broken with Stats.

I am not really interested in buying anything from market, so I am accumulating shards. By the time a new rare gets released, I am pretty sure I will have enough shards to egg lock myself with new eggs from market, contributing to the future price hike. How many savings went into Stats?
Edit: I will have enough if the price for new rare will be around the same as Stat's initial price.
 

I think fixing the pricing formulas (tweaking the numbers) makes more sense than introducing hard caps.

Some market prices are puzzling and weird. Why are Magmas more expensive than Stats now?????

Edited by Lost_Unicorn

Share this post


Link to post

I wouldn't mind a raise in the shard amount we get or a cap at 5200s. Please no removing anything from the market--no matter how common. I already find it weird that we have dragons that aren't in the market while still being available in the cave. Users should be able to buy what they want regardless of rarity.

Share this post


Link to post
15 hours ago, Lost_Unicorn said:

I am a relatively new player, joining on Oct 02, 2020, so I don't know what discussions the community had on market and prices before, but I could see the following logic behind Stats:

 

While I get your thought process here, it just doesn't fit with what DC has always been and what the Market was *stated* to be. Golds and Silvers have always been The Rares, even after over a decade they were they only 'true' rares in terms of trading value and rarity in-cave. Now I have no clue about actual population numbers or anything, but even if Stats have finally bumped Golds/Silvers from the top-spots I very much doubt they would be over *twice* as rare as the *rarest* breeds we've ever had. At least, I wouldn't think they would be *meant* to be that way... Actually I feel like it's possible none of this was intended at all, the ridiculously high price, etc. Something may have gone wrong somewhere along the way, I don't know. 

 

I also don't think that 'rares should be roughly 6 months of shards' should just be thrown out the window just because there is a new rare in town.  ALL rares should follow that rule, or at least *some* sort of 'should take roughly this long to get'.  The original idea of 6 months for a true rare shouldn't suddenly *double* because of one new breed, that doesn't make sense. (And yes Magmas and Unbreedables are more expensive than Golds/Silvers but Unbreedables make sense and I still have no clue what's going on with Magma's pricing...)

Share this post


Link to post

Agreeing with a market cap. I've literally only have ever seen one Stat in the cave; luckily, I bought mine from the market when they were soon released and could afford it. I see silvers and even golds more often that Stats.

 

 

Edited by Tetelestai
3AM typo

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

I also don't think that 'rares should be roughly 6 months of shards' should just be thrown out the window just because there is a new rare in town.  ALL rares should follow that rule, or at least *some* sort of 'should take roughly this long to get'.

I, also, dislike the idea of adding brand new rarity tiers as breeds are released as justification for letting prices go sky-high.

 

What if something even rarer than Stats comes out?  Should players then have to have over an entire year without a single missed week of maxing to get one???  That's ridiculous amount of dedication being demanded by a single game.

Share this post


Link to post
On 5/20/2022 at 2:37 AM, Jazeki said:

Please no removing anything from the market--no matter how common.

+1. I don't support removing anything in market, include using alternation or any method.

 

Which 2G Xeno would pouduct by Xenowyrm x Non-Xenowyrm is depend on the Non-Xenowyrm parent's biome, market dragons can break this restriction. You can get some 2G xenos that does not occur normally, such as Ice dragon only appear in Alpine, but you can get other biome's xeno (like pyro) by using market ice x non-pyro parents. Even the dragon release in any biome (like gold), you could just collecting the market one and get the same effect rather then collect all biome this dragon's appear.

 

Although Stat is cutting prices I still support to have a cap. Surely you don't expect to lower the price every time manually? Will the Birthday NR egg become Stat 2.0?

Edited by D-wing

Share this post


Link to post

Stat has rocketed again....

Share this post


Link to post

Well today it was at 3800 and I was finally able to buy a Stat. Hope they don't rise that high again.

Share this post


Link to post

Support. Or add more mechanics to get shards while also increasing the weekly cap a bunch. 

Share this post


Link to post

I don't plan to cap market prices in any way. Market prices are derived from other stuff, so a cap is little more than masking symptoms of another problem. If a breed is "too expensive" for people, it's also probably too rare in general, and artificial limits on prices doesn't fix that.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.