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HeatherMarie

Tweak Help-section on sickness to be more accurate/informative

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This came up recently in a thread when it was pointed out that the on-site Help page for sickness seems to indicate that fogging is a 'cure' for sickness (or, in general, that there *is* such a thing as an actual 'cure' for sickness). The wording in this section is confusing and has lead to misunderstanding the mechanics of sickness and what influences if a dragon actually dies from sickness.

 

First paragraph on the sickness page:

Eggs and hatchlings can become sick when they receive too many views, unique views, and clicks in a short period of time. Although sickness can occur at any time, eggs are most vulnerable when first laid. If an egg or hatchling continues to receive too many views, unique views, and clicks while sick, it may die.

That last sentence implies that a sick dragon will only die if it continues receiving views/uvs/clicks, and in fact it's the only part of the page that addresses dying at all. This is misleading because even a dragon that is not receiving any more stats at all (like if it's fogged) can still die if it got *too* sick before it stopped receiving stats. 

 

Second paragraph:

To “cure” an egg or hatchling of sickness, you must reduce the rate at which it is receiving views, unique views, and clicks. This may require removing the egg or hatchling from any sites you have posted it on. The hide action prevents eggs and hatchlings from receiving views, unique views, and clicks. This makes it a useful tool at combating sickness.

I don't think the "cure" wording in the first sentence is accurate or helpful, in fact it's very misleading. This paragraph seems to show that curing a sick dragon is as simple as 'reducing the rate' of views/etc, and offers the hide action as a 'useful tool at combating sickness' even though technically the hide action doesn't directly affect sickness at all. Hiding only stops a dragon from continuing to receive more stats, if it's already too sick it's not going to be useful at all. 

 

I think this section needs to address the fact that there *is* no outright 'cure' for sickness and if a dragon is already too sick when you fog or otherwise 'reduce the rate' of it's stats it may still die no matter what you do. Also this page on sickness doesn't even mention Ward at all, which I would think it should. It should mention that you can use Ward to stop your dragons from dying of sickness for a certain amount of time, giving the dragon a chance to recover, though it can still die when Ward wears off if it's still too sick.

 

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Agreed. I can't even begin to guess the number of people I have seen post in the Help forum and other places.

"I fogged my sick dragon. Why did it still die?"

The section could definitely be clearer.

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How about "help an egg or hatchling overcome sickness" instead of "cure"? Also adding "your egg/hatchling can still die of sickness even while fogged if it got too many views before it was fogged."?

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4 hours ago, purpledragonclaw said:

How about "help an egg or hatchling overcome sickness" instead of "cure"? Also adding "your egg/hatchling can still die of sickness even while fogged if it got too many views before it was fogged."?

 

I don't think you need that last bit.

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If an egg/hatchie can still die when fogged why don't they instantly die before being fogged? I don't know if I'm making myself clear but it's obvious that dragons have certain resistance to sickness even if they get too sick, like the health bar in a videogame, you receive a mortal punch and the bar decreases without hope. Sorry for asking this but it just crossed my mind.

 

12 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

Second paragraph:

To “cure” an egg or hatchling of sickness, you must reduce the rate at which it is receiving views, unique views, and clicks. This may require removing the egg or hatchling from any sites you have posted it on. The hide action prevents eggs and hatchlings from receiving views, unique views, and clicks. This makes it a useful tool at combating sickness.

I don't think the "cure" wording in the first sentence is accurate or helpful, in fact it's very misleading. This paragraph seems to show that curing a sick dragon is as simple as 'reducing the rate' of views/etc, and offers the hide action as a 'useful tool at combating sickness' even though technically the hide action doesn't directly affect sickness at all. Hiding only stops a dragon from continuing to receive more stats, if it's already too sick it's not going to be useful at all. 

 

Agreed, it's very misleading, but it must be true that reducing the rate of stats is one treatment for sickness. Not something I'll ever be willing to try but, I mean, the dragon can still slowly take damage as long as its health bar doesn't reach zero. But we don't know what's the healthbar of dragons.

 

If you can fog your eggs or hatchies when they get sick then there must be some invisible health bar that replenishes with time.

 

Support, especially because that page needs an update mentioning the Ward BSA.

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59 minutes ago, Kegluneq said:

If an egg/hatchie can still die when fogged why don't they instantly die before being fogged? I don't know if I'm making myself clear but it's obvious that dragons have certain resistance to sickness even if they get too sick, like the health bar in a videogame, you receive a mortal punch and the bar decreases without hope. Sorry for asking this but it just crossed my mind.

 

 

Because they haven't QUITE enough views AND AGE to die. Age comes into it too. An egg with no views won't die for a long long time.

Also, of course, if an egg is warded, it won't die till the ward runs out.

 

As to ward - it isn't only used to help with sickness, but also to keep an egg safe while it can still be viewed - as in an egg in trade.

Edited by Fuzzbucket

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44 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

Because they haven't QUITE enough views AND AGE to die. Age comes into it too. An egg with no views won't die for a long long time.

Also, of course, if an egg is warded, it won't die till the ward runs out.

 

As to ward - it isn't only used to help with sickness, but also to keep an egg safe while it can still be viewed - as in an egg in trade.

Let me see if I understand this, could an egg be too young to die? If an egg gets sick or sick beyond cure at a certain point during its natural lifespan it won't instantly die, it has to overcome the sickness first to get healthy and in the case it is too sick to recover it still has to "process" the sickness, deteriorate and eventually die?

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1 hour ago, Kegluneq said:

could an egg be too young to die?

I'm pretty sure CB eggs can't die of sickness until their abandon cooldown ends, so their basically immune for the first 6 hours of their life.

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2 minutes ago, Ginger said:

I'm pretty sure CB eggs can't die of sickness until their abandon cooldown ends, so their basically immune for the first 6 hours of their life.

Ah! I didn't really know that, it's very interesting!

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I think that's true - I tried to murder one the other day by blitzing it, and I couldn't do it.

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It certainly made the case that you can't blitz them to death in their first 5 hours. I even had it in about 6 autorefreshes - though the 15:1 thing did kick in a lot.

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Several people in the Unofficial Discord have tried to viewbomb some unwanted eggies with similar results (me included) - tho it would make sense that you can't blast 'em while they're on cooldown to avoid allowing ppl to "exploit" eggs that died of sickness not clogging eggslots

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13 hours ago, Kegluneq said:

If an egg/hatchie can still die when fogged why don't they instantly die before being fogged? I don't know if I'm making myself clear but it's obvious that dragons have certain resistance to sickness even if they get too sick, like the health bar in a videogame, you receive a mortal punch and the bar decreases without hope. Sorry for asking this but it just crossed my mind.

 

 

Agreed, it's very misleading, but it must be true that reducing the rate of stats is one treatment for sickness. Not something I'll ever be willing to try but, I mean, the dragon can still slowly take damage as long as its health bar doesn't reach zero. But we don't know what's the healthbar of dragons.

 

If you can fog your eggs or hatchies when they get sick then there must be some invisible health bar that replenishes with time.

 

Support, especially because that page needs an update mentioning the Ward BSA.

 

 

Fogging doesn't cure sickness and doesn't automatically stop the egg from dying from sickness, what it does is stop the egg from getting even more views/etc to give it a 'chance at recovering', basically. As for why a sick dragon would die under fog but not die before fogging (besides the above-mentioned possibility of not being able to die while on biome-caught cooldown) I don't know this for a fact but just in my experience a sick dragon is more likely to die if it's been sick for a long time. So, I'm thinking it's possible that a dragon gets so sick it just won't be able to recover, but it might not actually die right away, and then it gets fogged but it's still too sick and ends up dying. Again I don't know for a fact that 'length of sickness' is actually a factor as long as views are stopped, but that's what I seem to have experienced in the past. 

(And of course if the egg is Warded and then fogged, it may be already too-sick but Ward prevents it from actually dying, so it dies in the fog as soon as Ward wears off.)

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2 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

Fogging doesn't cure sickness and doesn't automatically stop the egg from dying from sickness, what it does is stop the egg from getting even more views/etc to give it a 'chance at recovering', basically. As for why a sick dragon would die under fog but not die before fogging (besides the above-mentioned possibility of not being able to die while on biome-caught cooldown) I don't know this for a fact but just in my experience a sick dragon is more likely to die if it's been sick for a long time. So, I'm thinking it's possible that a dragon gets so sick it just won't be able to recover, but it might not actually die right away, and then it gets fogged but it's still too sick and ends up dying. Again I don't know for a fact that 'length of sickness' is actually a factor as long as views are stopped, but that's what I seem to have experienced in the past. 

(And of course if the egg is Warded and then fogged, it may be already too-sick but Ward prevents it from actually dying, so it dies in the fog as soon as Ward wears off.)

Yes, I'm aware fogging isn't a cure. The length of sickness may not be a factor but it makes sense. I agree with the argument, I was curious why eggs wouldn't die right away when they'd get too sick to recover. So far an egg of mine hasn't died of sickness but I've had many eggs that were sick for over 4 hours, length of sickness being or not a factor I completely agree.

 

These terms sound really cool, we need a DC Dictionary.

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I think age of egg also kicks in. As it gets closer to the time it would have hatched if it ween't sick, it gets - in effect - sicker.

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think the amount of time a egg/hatchi is sick and how many views it gets while sick affects the recovery time. I once witnessed my mature hatching get sick when I was browsing the site, fogged it quickly and almost instantly it recovered. I've had more heavily viewed sick eggs take much longer to recover, around 5-6 hours.

 

Also, I wonder if hatchlings are less prone to dying from sickness then eggs are.

Edited by Ginger

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To the latter - yes. I have tried to bomb hatchies to death for Zombie projects. It's REALLY hard !

 

And as I've already said, I'm sure that as the time remaining ticks down, the risk of death for a sick egg rises.

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10 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

And as I've already said, I'm sure that as the time remaining ticks down, the risk of death for a sick egg rises.

So the threshold for sickness is lower to older the egg is but the threshold for dying from sickness gets higher, If I am understanding it right.

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I think fuzz is saying, the longer an egg is sick the sicker it gets. Personally I don't think that's true, and how sick a thing is (aka the chance they'll die) increases as their views increase, but both sickness and dying threshold also increase so only extremely high numbers or being too early in age will actually kill.

Edited by Shadowdrake

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That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that it is more likely actually to DIE of sickness, the older it is - even when fogged. An age of egg thing, not a length of sickness thing.

And yes I know you can make them sick more easily when they are brand new, but still.

Edited by Fuzzbucket

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3 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I'm saying that it is more likely actually to DIE of sickness, the older it is - even when fogged.

According to all the zyus, prizes and sick hatchies around, that is probably not true whatsoever. If I'm not mistaken, I've seen you state that neglected attempts often die of sickness, which is also patently not true for the sheer fact that it's nigh impossible.

Edited by Shadowdrake

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I've never had a neglected attempt die of sickness, IIRC. I've never even got close to getting a neglected; I've only had hatched normal or deaths as normal eggs, so that wasn't me, I think. But other than that - fair enough; I don't exactly research.

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Support. I've been here for three months and thought, until this point, that fog would fix sickness, a sort of countermeasure that reversed the effect of too many views.

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*BUMP* 

 

Seriously, can we please get some clarification on this Help page? Please? Yet another user misunderstanding sickness, believing that hiding them would save them. Which is a totally understandable assumption based on what the Help page says. The Help page *needs* to address the *fact* that dragons can still die of sickness after fogged.

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Wholeheartedly support. Please make that section more accurate.

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