Spells/potions market

[Falorni]

This idea has been rehashed before, but all the threads seem to be either long dead or locked - so I've decided to revive it since the topic came up in Paradiske's Spellbook thread and I don't wish to clog it up lol

 

Basically, the gist of the suggestion would be either a tab on the pre existing market or a whole new page dedicated for spells or potions you could buy with shards.  These could potentially include things like one-time variants of pre-existing BSAs (Run out of pinks to influence your newest egg?  Now you could easily fix that for a small price) or more pricey things like a spell to increase the likelihood of eggs hatching as alt variants.  

 

I think this would be a nice little addition to the market system we currently have and give those who currently have no interest in using it an extra thing to spend shards on.  Additionally, however, it could double as a shard dump for odd numbers and leftover shards by the way of a sliding scale pricing:

 

Let's say a spell to influence a dragon costs 100 shards for simplicity's sake.  When an user goes to purchase a spell, they'd be faced with a prompt to input how many shards they'd like to spend on the spell in question.  Of course if an user put in 200+ shards they'd be able to purchase multiples of the spell, but this could allow users to get rid of, say, that excess 13 shards they have sitting on their balance they'd otherwise be unable to get rid of.  Simply put in 113 and poof, your account is at a nice even number again!

 

As I said I know this topic has been discussed before with no concrete conclusion - any inputs or feedback from older users who happened to participate in those threads would be especially welcome.    If there is another thread about this that I missed mods feel free to merge or lock this ❤️ 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Falorni

[KageSora]

In theory I have no issues with spells that mimic a BSA, or that are a less potent version of a BSA or something.  It'd be useful for players that don't want to or can't amass an army of certain BSA dragons, or if a new alt comes out that makes a BSA dragon scarce because everybody's scrambling to get it.

 

HOWEVER

 

Dead set against anything like this:

4 hours ago, Falorni said:

things like a spell to increase the likelihood of eggs hatching as alt variants.

 

My concern with this is that would entice artists to make alts that require the purchase of a specific spell, such as this one, to make.  I'm annoyed enough that several alts now make it clear that ~artistic vision~ takes precedence over player experience so anything that might possibly encourage more of that absolute nonsense is to be avoided at all costs IMO.

[Darkrat]

I agree, the spells should stick to bsas, or maybe stuff like recovering kill slots.

However no support for breeds that require spells as it would harm players who are saving up for specific dragons such as gold. 

 

These should make things easier on players who don't have as many bsa dragons but not destroy user's shard saving goals. 

 

At least if shards start to become required to get certain dragons then we need more ways to get shards. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Darkrat
adding to the post

[Moriaty]

13 minutes ago, KageSora said:

Dead set against anything like this:

 

My concern with this is that would entice artists to make alts that require the purchase of a specific spell, such as this one, to make.  I'm annoyed enough that several alts now make it clear that ~artistic vision~ takes precedence over player experience so anything that might possibly encourage more of that absolute nonsense is to be avoided at all costs IMO.

 

This is a really, really nice point (that I didn't think of until seeing this post)

 

I like the idea of purchasing BSA spells as long as this doesn't happen

[Fuzzbucket]

3 hours ago, KageSora said:

In theory I have no issues with spells that mimic a BSA, or that are a less potent version of a BSA or something.  It'd be useful for players that don't want to or can't amass an army of certain BSA dragons, or if a new alt comes out that makes a BSA dragon scarce because everybody's scrambling to get it.

 

HOWEVER

3 hours ago, KageSora said:

  7 hours ago, Falorni said:

things like a spell to increase the likelihood of eggs hatching as alt variants.

Dead set against anything like this:

 

My concern with this is that would entice artists to make alts that require the purchase of a specific spell, such as this one, to make.  I'm annoyed enough that several alts now make it clear that ~artistic vision~ takes precedence over player experience so anything that might possibly encourage more of that absolute nonsense is to be avoided at all costs IMO.

 

Absolutely agree. Though I think calling it absolute nonsense is overly harsh. Artists do their stuff for free and I am very grateful to them, even if some of their mechanics are really tough.

 

One nice one - a spell to undo an influence so that you don't have to bounce an egg to do that ?

 

Though I really don't think I'd use this market much anyway.

[HeatherMarie]

3 hours ago, KageSora said:

 

My concern with this is that would entice artists to make alts that require the purchase of a specific spell, such as this one, to make. 

 

This is a very good point, I wouldn't want any sort of 'spells' that are *required* to purchase to get a breed/variant. We have more than enough need-something-extra variants at this point. 

 

I 100% would love to be able to buy 'spells' of some sort though. One-time BSA uses are the obvious choices, and I think things like maybe reducing a cooldown (slightly, maybe a 1 or 2 day reduction or something) could be very useful... There are so many different cooldowns in the game, I could see it very useful to not just reduce a breeding-cooldown but things like kill-slot cooldowns and freeze-slot cooldowns (I would definitely spend some shards to get one or two freeze-slots back sooner, especially during holiday-collecting!). 

 

In general I'd just like more interesting/useful things to spend shards on, the Market is awesome when you can't catch certain breeds on your own but I think the possibilities of non-egg purchases could be really exciting and fun to explore. (I also like the 'sliding scale' idea, a base cost for a spell but you can add some shards to the price if you want to make your shard count even... Not sure I would actually use that but it's a great option for those who have wonky shard numbers due to not hitting the max in a week or whatever.)

[OMGitsKairi]

4 hours ago, KageSora said:

My concern with this is that would entice artists to make alts that require the purchase of a specific spell, such as this one, to make.  I'm annoyed enough that several alts now make it clear that ~artistic vision~ takes precedence over player experience so anything that might possibly encourage more of that absolute nonsense is to be avoided at all costs IMO.

 

You put the thing into words, thank you.

 

28 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

I 100% would love to be able to buy 'spells' of some sort though. One-time BSA uses are the obvious choices, and I think things like maybe reducing a cooldown (slightly, maybe a 1 or 2 day reduction or something) could be very useful... There are so many different cooldowns in the game, I could see it very useful to not just reduce a breeding-cooldown but things like kill-slot cooldowns and freeze-slot cooldowns (I would definitely spend some shards to get one or two freeze-slots back sooner, especially during holiday-collecting!). 

 

Yes, I would love this. I can never get near the number of freezes I need in a given holiday period.

 

But yes, on the whole I support this idea, in terms of potions/spells acting as a one-use BSA, or even shortening cooldowns as HeatherMarie mentioned. I am totally against, however, potions or spells to increase the likelihood of alts occurring. Mostly for the reasons that KageSora listed. I, like many others I'm sure, am very tired of and overwhelmed by the recent uptick in convoluted and-- in my opinion-- annoying requirements in order to obtain new dragons. 

 

 

TL;DR- BSA potions yes, alt potions no.

[Falorni]

Oh the alts thing is merely sth that was brought up by someone in earlier discussions, hence I mentioned it - I don't feel strongly about it either way myself since I rarely breed for alts but also wouldn't really hate a potion only alt variant lol

 

(I'd also appreciate people not get so hung up on that particular point, it's literally just a side note I saw people mentioning earlier.  It also doesn't mean "this will make your dragon alt 100%" bur rather "this will make your black egg more likely to alt.)

Edited September 17, 2021 by Falorni

[KageSora]

48 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Though I think calling it absolute nonsense is overly harsh. Artists do their stuff for free and I am very grateful to them, even if some of their mechanics are really tough.

Just to clarify, I wasn't intending it as an attack on artists trying to be creative with mechanics.

 

The part I have issue with is how often I see people saying what boils down to "artistic vision trumps user experience", when in truth sometimes it's best to go "okay, turns out that this is more frustrating in practice than expected in theory" and make some compromises.

 

I was preemptively anticipating a situation where, in the interest of exploring fun new alt mechanics, somebody decided on a shard-exclusive one and I cannot see that ever going down well which would lead to the usual rounds of "you can't criticize the vision of the artist".

 

(Might be silly to preemptively anticipate such a thing, but I figure it's easier to plan for something that never comes to pass than it is to scramble for damage control once it does if it goes over less than wonderfully)

 

57 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

I think things like maybe reducing a cooldown (slightly, maybe a 1 or 2 day reduction or something) could be very useful... There are so many different cooldowns in the game, I could see it very useful to not just reduce a breeding-cooldown but things like kill-slot cooldowns and freeze-slot cooldowns (I would definitely spend some shards to get one or two freeze-slots back sooner, especially during holiday-collecting!). 

Oh, I like this idea!  Even if it was a simple 1 day cooldown, or even just something as simple as 12 hour reduction could be very useful if you need to use a BSA/action but won't be around when it comes off cooldown.  It'd give just a little more wiggle room with timing clutches sometimes.

 

Perhaps there could be different costs for length of potions?

 

Something like 50-99 shards for a 12 hours reduction, 100-199 for a 1 day reduction, 200-299 for 2 days, etc. with some sort of upper limit such as maybe 2 days max or so?

 

Or if there wasn't a maximum, I'd expect once you get past a day or so the shard cost would start going up exponentially for each reduction increment rather than linearly.  I'd also expect that such potions wouldn't be able to be stacked--"one potion per cooldown"--to keep somebody from buying, say, 7 one-day reductions for much cheaper than a single 7-day reduction

 

1 hour ago, HeatherMarie said:

In general I'd just like more interesting/useful things to spend shards on, the Market is awesome when you can't catch certain breeds on your own but I think the possibilities of non-egg purchases could be really exciting and fun to explore.

Hm, another possibility--one that would require it's own thread--would be accessories for the dragons, or access to "old skins", so to speak.  I do not mean "get old sprites back", but like make your dragon appear as it did during some holidays (remember that one year a lot of dragons were colored like mint dragons for april fools?)

 

But that's a matter for a separate topic.  (...And, honestly, I can already foresee "glamor potions" leading to the same issue as "alt potions" if it resulted in a unique skin only available via shards, even if it was applicable to any dragon of that breed rather than being a true alt)

 

Nevermind that thought, then--much more useful to consider functional potions that mimic BSA/actions or reduce cooldowns.

 

Perhaps a potion that acts as a freeze?  So rather than buying a cooldown reduction to get your freeze slot back, you buy a potion that acts as a freeze when applied so you can use it either without taking up a slot, or use it even if you have all your slots used up.

[ShorahNagi]

Spells I would like to see:

 

*BSA's- excluding Bite/Teleport

*Remove Influence (solves the issue of needing to 'bounce' eggs)

*'Reset' Refusal (would cost a couple thousand shards, but would allow you to undo a refusal [does not guarantee they wouldn't refuse a second time])

 

Spells I would not like to see:

*reduce cooldown

*additional kill/freeze slots

*'reset' kill/freeze slots

 

Spells I'm neutral on:

*Increase chance of an alt.

I don't mind this one IF it's limited to breeds that have breed only alts (so Black, Dark Green/Vine, and Undine) but it should not affect BSA-based alts.

 

It's an interesting concept, but at the end of the day, I'm neutral on the whole thing.

 

[SomeRandomCorviknight]

I feel like just bsa would be better.

[Shadowdrake]

I wouldn't mind a bite/vampire transformation spell simply because it seems like TJ is never going to implement them in caves as genuine CBs. If it has the same risks as regular vamp bites, why not.

[missy_]

I can't support this idea, because it pushes the site closer to -- and please hear me out -- "pay to play," in that shards become more of a vital in-game currency rather than a casual in-game currency. 

 

While it isn't technically "pay to play" since the game is free, how many of us are familiar with "free" games that have "free" in-game currency that players grind to get, because of its inherent value in a game? 

 

Free shards currently have only one purpose: to purchase eggs. I believe that is a fair use of them; it gives players a chance to obtain eggs they may not otherwise be able to collect.

 

However, if other game perks begin to use shards, the game becomes more dependent on in-game currency.  Even though the shards are free, by creating more value for shards, it becomes "grind-to-play." 

 

Other sites use IGC for spells, potions, trinkets, etc. that players grind for.  I would not like to see DC head in that direction.  

 

Invariably, there would be (and already is) a clamor for players to be allowed to earn more shards per week (which would be easily countered by raising the shard price of eggs, so a no-win for players).  The idea of players grinding for shards in order to spend them on BSAs or other trinkets just feels wrong and not in the spirit of DC.  But that is just my opinion. 

[HeatherMarie]

I don't really see how adding stuff to the Market would increase any sort of 'pay' or 'grind' mentality any more than the Market itself already has. If stuff was added to the Market that you could *only* get through the Market, yeah I could see that, but adding small spells that do exactly the same things we already have (like BSAs), I don't see that changing things so much. I mean, one could make the argument it's already exactly like that, since some players literally can't catch a CB Gold on their own and *must* 'pay to play' using the Market in order to get one. I don't see why adding spells would increase that at all.

 

Also, since the shard cap is so very very low per week, there is literally no possibility of 'grind-to-play' anyways. Regardless of what is or isn't in the Market that's just not a thing, no one can get more than a very small amount of shards per week no matter how much they play. The only way that would even be a serious concern is if the weekly shard-cap was raised *significantly*, which isn't very likely. 

[Falorni]

Agreed w/ HeatherMarie, I don't vision this suggestion being any more pay-to-win than, say, buying a CB Gold or a Stat from the pre-existing market because you're like me and can't catch rares in the cave to save your life

 

I do however like the idea of scaling up prices the more you buy of a specific spell - these aren't intended to replace BSA dragons but more for when you realize you've ran out of reds and REALLY need to incubate an egg.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Falorni

[Fuzzbucket]

Me too. You can't grind a lot when you only have 100 shards available per week - and please don't raise that, much as I want another Stat !

[Jazeki]

Please nothing like "increase chances of alting," but I don't really mind anything related to existing BSAs or even removing the effects of a BSA (except maybe the one that gets zombies off your scroll). 

[ShorahNagi]

19 hours ago, missy_ said:

Free shards currently have only one purpose: to purchase eggs. I believe that is a fair use of them; it gives players a chance to obtain eggs they may not otherwise be able to collect.

And I feel that is why people want an additional use for them.

 

I've used my shards in the past to buy breeds I was having a hard time getting CB ones of - but now that I have them, my shards are just sitting there...waiting for the next time I'm having trouble finding a certain egg.

 

BSA spells would be beneficial to all because:

 

1. Gives newer players access to BSAs they might not have a lot of

 

2. Gives veteran players a back up if they run out of BSA dragons (ex. I have 6 Aeons, last release I used them all up)

 

3. Makes shards have a greater purpose

 

Also, I agree with others that - when there's a limit you can theoretically hit in less than a day's time...its not really a grind.

[HeatherMarie]

2 hours ago, ShorahNagi said:

BSA spells would be beneficial to all because:

 

1. Gives newer players access to BSAs they might not have a lot of

 

2. Gives veteran players a back up if they run out of BSA dragons (ex. I have 6 Aeons, last release I used them all up)

 

3. Makes shards have a greater purpose

 

I think #1 and #3 are especially important here. The game has changed a lot over the years, and BSAs have become more and more useful/needed, especially with some breed-variants now requiring them. It's also fairly obvious that even breeds that are supposedly common are often a bit hard to gather when they are wanted for BSAs (Aeons of course, but I'm seeing a distinct lack of Greens lately, and Reds/Magis/Purples are never very plentiful in the AP at least). For newer players, or even older players who simply haven't collected a ton of those breeds, the recent increase in BSA-use can be harder to catch up with. Being able to buy a one-use BSA, imo, wouldn't lessen the value of those breeds or anything but would be very helpful in many situations. 

And as someone who only uses shards anymore to buy/toss eggs to the AP for others, I'd *love* something else to do with my shards, something else to spend them on that might actually be beneficial to my own gameplay.