Pink Sapphire mechanism

[Moranna]

I haven't read the entire thread, so I apologize if I bring up something controversial.

 

On 6/7/2021 at 12:25 PM, FortyTwo said:

I just hope mechanics like this don't become the norm. I'm all for a bit of difficulty, such as the green cantos, but not these pink sapphires. It's also somewhat worrying that some dragons require interaction with other players (teleport canto, these) when previously you could obtain all breeds solo, with some difficulty, as far as I'm aware. How are players not on the forums supposed to obtain these if they don't become easier.

 

I agree 100%.  Players who are not active in the forums or Discord are deliberately excluded with mechanics like these.  DC started out as a collecting game that you can play as you'd like, with as much or as little interaction as you wanted.  These outside-help mechanics now make you dependent on other players, and that may not be realistic for everyone.  I don't think it's a benefit to introduce mechanics that alienate part of the user base.  And I'm dismayed to see people with dismissive attitudes about the difficulty to get specific eggs from the AP, because their personal experiences are not the same.  Not everyone has the time to camp out in the AP for hours, and hoping for RNGesus's blessing to get the CBs I need for my scroll is not fun. 

 

If there is this much of an outcry about a mechanic, I think it should be seriously reconsidered. 

 

So that this post isn't just a rant, here's my suggestion.  I think that a mechanic that a player can manage on their own, like with Siyats or NDs, should be added, and only affect eggs.  The view ranges should be broad enough that they can accommodate most play methods, but narrow enough to introduce some challenge.  For example, the pinks should have a low # of views, but not so low that it risks becoming a ND instead.  Yellows should have a higher threshold (maybe 5-6k?) so that blues have a decent range so that can be the "default" variant.  Add the variants to the market, but maybe at a mid-range price formula so they don't end up as high as metals/dinos/Trio, etc? (I'm not sure what would be an appropriate shard price would be.)

[Nalyua]

2 hours ago, kzspot said:

Can we just agree that on Wednesdays we wear pink, so that would be the day we breed/ buy/ catch and deliberately abandon Sapphires? 

 

Since not everyone uses Forums or the Chat unfortunately not.

[Falorni]

Gonna remind everyone coming into this thread to read the first few pages before making suggestions considering Infinis commented and made very clear on what additional mechanics she would be comfortable with; these are her creation and while only TJ can truly change the mechanic, we really should at least honor her wishes on it.

[schenanigans]

15 hours ago, lexi_ said:

also a problem i have with lineage building is that if you dont have forums, the hub has a rule against targeting specific players in a trade. this feels really bad, like an unintentional trap for players who may not know better to fall into by trying to be nice only to get trade banned in the worse case scenario, having no idea what theyre doing wrong. this is an issue with the trading hub being generally unclear in general, so i dont want to turn the discussion in that particular direction, but its still... hrm. it just doesnt feel good to have a mechanic that REQUIRES you to rely on other players giving you your egg back if you want to build a lineage with your own dragons and also have a rule against targeting players in trades. yknow?

 

While I agree with the sentiment of this post, I don't agree that it is an argument for changing the pink sapphires. Hub rules being a problem are the problem. THATS what's in need of an update, and this just highlights that. 

 

5 hours ago, Nalyua said:

 

Since not everyone uses Forums or the Chat unfortunately not.

 

Why not? Do the forums and discord own the AP? Last I checked they didn't. People on both platforms coordinate massbreeds and similar events for the AP specifically all the time. You don't have to be a part of either to benefit from the AP, as it should be. Unless you're insinuating it shouldn't happen because these people aren't contributing to the pink sapphire mini flood? I certainly hope you aren't.

 

While I agree that mechanics need to take the population that isn't in discord/on the forums into consideration, I don't agree that this mechanic inherently puts them at a disadvantage. Pink sapphires do not need either to be obtained. Other than coordinating "AP trading" on forums/discord, those players that are not in either are on the same playing field as the rest of us - hoping to catch them in the AP ourselves or get them off the hub lol. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by schenanigans

[kzspot]

11 hours ago, Nalyua said:

 

Since not everyone uses Forums or the Chat unfortunately not.

Forum or chat/ discord is not the end all be all for everything, I myself rarely get on here except for new release days. (And when I think I have a good suggestion.  ) There are enough people on here, who if we coordinated that on Wednesdays we wear pink, the people NOT on here would see the flood later and work out the time frame and could join in if they wanted to. Ya'll continue to ***** and moan all you want to, you do you, as for me, I'm going to do my one man show of "On Wednesdays we wear pink." . Already bought my two Sapphires (that's all I got room for),  gotta wait 5 hours, and then I'm abandoning and breeding/ abandoning. You do the math. (No, really, you do the math, I hate figuring out when stuff hits the AP. ) 

[UnicornMaiden]

7 hours ago, schenanigans said:

Why not? Do the forums and discord own the AP? Last I checked they didn't. People on both platforms coordinate massbreeds and similar events for the AP specifically all the time. You don't have to be a part of either to benefit from the AP, as it should be. Unless you're insinuating it shouldn't happen because these people aren't contributing to the pink sapphire mini flood? I certainly hope you aren't.

 

While I agree that mechanics need to take the population that isn't in discord/on the forums into consideration, I don't agree that this mechanic inherently puts them at a disadvantage. Pink sapphires do not need either to be obtained. Other than coordinating "AP trading" on forums/discord, those players that are not in either are on the same playing field as the rest of us - hoping to catch them in the AP ourselves or get them off the hub lol. 

 

Do players who aren't on anything other than the main site even know what all the mechanics are? This new release gave us an alt that's obtained by abandoning, an alt that's obtained by a certain number of views, an alt that's obtained by using a BSA on both parents, an alt that's obtained by using a BSA on the hatchling, two alts that are obtained by using certain BSAs on the egg, alts that are available depending on the day of the week, and an entirely new variety of an existing breed with certain colors available CB and certain colors only available through breeding. If people just like to play the game on their own without participating in larger conversations that's an awful lot of new information for them to figure out through trial and error.

[stagazer_7]

I support doing pretty much anything with the current Pink Sapphire mechanic... if this dragon is the result of loneliness, trading should do the same as abandoning as it's also separated from its mother, low views also signal the lack of attention, any of these could work... I like the low view solution more as it makes the dragon easier to obtain and is a nice contrast to the Yellow Sapphire mechanic. 

9 hours ago, Falorni said:

Gonna remind everyone coming into this thread to read the first few pages before making suggestions considering Infinis commented and made very clear on what additional mechanics she would be comfortable with; these are her creation and while only TJ can truly change the mechanic, we really should at least honor her wishes on it.

Sorry, I hope I did not suggest anything Infinis does not approve, I did not have the time to read the entire conversation up to here. Can I suggest you summarize or link her opinion in your first post?

[Falorni]

1 hour ago, stagazer_7 said:

 

Sorry, I hope I did not suggest anything Infinis does not approve, I did not have the time to read the entire conversation up to here. Can I suggest you summarize or link her opinion in your first post?

Boop!  It's pretty early on so understandable to miss it

[stagazer_7]

1 hour ago, Falorni said:

Boop!  It's pretty early on so understandable to miss it

Thanks!

[schenanigans]

4 hours ago, UnicornMaiden said:

 

Do players who aren't on anything other than the main site even know what all the mechanics are? This new release gave us an alt that's obtained by abandoning, an alt that's obtained by a certain number of views, an alt that's obtained by using a BSA on both parents, an alt that's obtained by using a BSA on the hatchling, two alts that are obtained by using certain BSAs on the egg, alts that are available depending on the day of the week, and an entirely new variety of an existing breed with certain colors available CB and certain colors only available through breeding. If people just like to play the game on their own without participating in larger conversations that's an awful lot of new information for them to figure out through trial and error.

 

There are tools available for users to figure out mechanics. All TJ can do is provide them; if they don't want to seek the information elsewhere, that is on them. They also have the wiki available without having to join the forums or discord for conversation. These are not the first dragons to be introduced with mechanics lol

Edited June 10, 2021 by schenanigans

[Kestra62]

honestly id be happy if theres a way to get CBs without relying on other users 

either via the market or maybe a specific way to trade them (i quite like the low view counts but if its as low as the neglected dragons well then thats too much)

or hell make sapphires a lot more common that way more people can adopt and dump 

cuz the way it looks right now to get a sapphire cb on your own youd have to catch/buy one and be lucky enough to snag it from the AP

id love if it was in the market ill pay the shards i just want one pair of cbs..

[Nalyua]

Under 500 Views like Infinis suggested is not really that hard to do, it just requires time to hatch the egg late.

[stagazer_7]

6 hours ago, Nalyua said:

Under 500 Views like Infinis suggested is not really that hard to do, it just requires time to hatch the egg late.

What type of views are we talking about, overall or unique views? I never really paid all that much attention to views, but looking at my dragons, most have 500+ unique views and 2,5-4k+ overall views, only a handful frozen hatchies have less then 1k overall views, I don't think I have any dragons with less then 500 overall views. But most were either hatched regularly or ER'd so I cannot claim, I've exactly been aiming for low views, so maybe that's why I have so few.

 

But based on what I see on my scroll, I think that maybe even 1k overall views would be a pretty decent challenge, especially if Pinks would be able to turn as hatchies like Yellows are and would most likely get more views before they grow up - at least that's how I understood they work, please correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

Also, wouldn't this mean that by potentially introducing this new view based hatching mechanic for the Pink Sapphires that the AP'd Saphs who turned Pink by abandoning would potentially be able to turn back into Blues if they weren't hatched under the right conditions (that'd actually be kind of fun... at least for me, lol). Or would the Pink effect of abandoning Blues be permanent? 

[Nalyua]

Yes 500 OV can be done. It's really not that hard, even 1-2 Day ER Eggs will hatch with 500 OV.

 

You'd have to fog the egg until it has around 1-2 days left.

 

I only checked the first page of my scroll and found several low stat dragons:

 

https://dragcave.net/view/Gfs8e

 

https://dragcave.net/view/1uByx

 

Those are the ones with the lowest stats. The one with 1200 OV on growing up took only 3 days to hatch and 3 days to mature. So you just gotta aim for low stats.

 

So yeah maybe turning them as hatchies might not work, but if you can turn them as eggs that would be plenty enough, don't you think?

 

I do not freeze hatchies on a regular base so I cannot say how long you'd have to wait for them to hatch.

 

https://dragcave.net/view/ZtH8

 

Would be closest as frozen hatchie, still took only 3 days to hatch.

My question would rather be how to implement such a thing. Like blue eggies until they hatch Pink if the stats are low enough?

 

Cause if you make it similar to the yellow mode, then any Saph would start out as a Pink, turn blue over a certain amount of Views and then turn yellow over a certain amount of views.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Nalyua

[Falorni]

afaik pink hatchies don't turn yellow atm anyway, so that hopefully shouldn't be much of an issue?

[purplehaze]

I would think (and hope) that if a Sapphire egg hatched at under the threshold number of views, no matter what that was set at, it would hatch pink and then would remain pink no matter how many views it gets as a hatchie.

[lexi_]

i didnt really understand hatchies turning anyways.. this would be so much less complicated overall if it only depended on what it hatched as! 

[Fuzzbucket]

I have one that grew up with <1000 OVs.

https://dragcave.net/view/PPRWh

 

[Tini]

1 hour ago, lexi_ said:

i didnt really understand hatchies turning anyways.. this would be so much less complicated overall if it only depended on what it hatched as! 

hatchies only turn yellow, hatchies never turned pink, or from pink to yellow.

[Nalyua]

@Tini yes though if you make it a View-Frame saying it is Pink under 500 and Blue under 4000, then logically they have to start out Pink and then turn blue and then yellow, that is why I am saying this might be hard to implement, unless you say they start blue by default and hatch Pink if they have below 500 Views by the time they hatch.

 

Then the egg would not be Pink but the hatchie would.

 

The other way, with a smooth turnover you'd have to have all Saphs be Pink by default.

[Yubelchen]

@Nalyua

 

How about the egg turning pink upon reaching 4th/5th shell crack stage? Its almost ready to hatch so a sudden color change would be a neat indicator (also very unique) and its kinda a warning like "yo, if you want me blue, crank upvthe views! last chance!"

[lexi_]

On 6/10/2021 at 6:06 PM, Tini said:

hatchies only turn yellow, hatchies never turned pink, or from pink to yellow.

i know that. im saying that this discussion on how to change things is complicated by this. haha.

[Fuzzbucket]

There is nothing that needs doing to change the yellow mechanic. The only "issue" is the pinks.

[UnicornMaiden]

As far as how few views it could get and still survive goes, I have a dragon that grew up with only 604 views, but it also had 90 clicks. Fewer views needs more clicks, I think. Also, that dragon is from 2010, and with how much things have changed since then I don't know if it would still work that way.

 

https://dragcave.net/view/dMo0

[11th]

On 6/11/2021 at 2:30 AM, Nalyua said:

@Tini yes though if you make it a View-Frame saying it is Pink under 500 and Blue under 4000, then logically they have to start out Pink and then turn blue and then yellow, that is why I am saying this might be hard to implement, unless you say they start blue by default and hatch Pink if they have below 500 Views by the time they hatch.

 

Then the egg would not be Pink but the hatchie would.

 

The other way, with a smooth turnover you'd have to have all Saphs be Pink by default.

 

Blue eggs hatching as pink with low enough OVs would be fine. Pink eggs would still be obtainable through the AP mechanic. People would still be able to unlock the pink egg for the encyclopedia by manually abandoning bred Sapphires, and if someone really wants a pink without the wait, then they could gamble on bouncing their egg through the AP. Everything would still be available without changing the default color of the breed.

Edited June 13, 2021 by 11th