Pink Sapphire mechanism

[UnicornMaiden]

On 8/20/2021 at 1:36 PM, HeatherMarie said:

 

Agreed. Honestly there really is no comparison between pink Sapphires and any other rare. With any other rare, even CB, you have multiple different ways to get them *on your own* (Market and biomes). You can catch them in the biomes with no help from anyone else, and buy them in the Market with shards you get from simply playing regularly. Yes, hard to find in biomes and expensive in Market, but at least those are options. Getting CB pink Sapphires, on the other hand, *requires* that someone *else* first has a CB Sapphire *and* chooses to abandon it, and you just have to hope that you are lucky and fast enough to catch it. (Yes, you can also trade for one, but that still requires other people's help *and* requires someone not only catching an abandoned CB Sapph but being willing to trade it...)

 

Agree

[Elizabeth Moonstone]

You do need another user to create a Pink Sapphire but most of the time, you don’t know them so their abandoning the egg acts like a random drop. Somebody abandons a CB Sapphire, some time later (might be several days) it drops in the AP. You cannot predict or control the drop of this CB Pink Sapphire in the AP, just like you can’t control or predict a CB Gold appearing in the Cave. You have to be lucky and fast enough to catch it in both cases. 

 

Here is a thought experiment: imagine, instead of the abandon mechanism,  that the cave algorithm would just generate CB Pink Sapphires among normal AP eggs. It would happen rarely, at random times and the generated eggs would look like regular AP eggs. There would be no other user involved but the way to get a CB Pink Sapphire would be exactly as it is now (hunt them in the AP and hope for the best). 

 

I think the issue with CB Pink Sapphires is not “another user is needed to create them” but “they drop in the AP, and AP eggs are not guaranteed to be CBs”. If you see a Gold in the Cave, it’s guaranteed to be CB, if you see a Pink Sapphire in the AP, it’s most likely not CB (or not the lineage you want) and it frustrates people. One way to alleviate that would be to put CB Pink Sapphires in the Market, at the price of a rare dragon, so people who can’t or don’t wish to AP hunt, can still get one.

[MissK.]

Pink sapphires aren't generated based on ratios though, only the blue ones are. The pinks are dependent on how many people decide to then abandon them to the AP, which could vary immensely from their intended rarity. And of course they are indeed not in the market, nor do I really expect them to be since Infinis gave specific options about any changes to their mechanism.

[Tawanda001]

2 hours ago, Elizabeth Moonstone said:

You do need another user to create a Pink Sapphire but most of the time, you don’t know them so their abandoning the egg acts like a random drop. Somebody abandons a CB Sapphire, some time later (might be several days) it drops in the AP. You cannot predict or control the drop of this CB Pink Sapphire in the AP, just like you can’t control or predict a CB Gold appearing in the Cave. You have to be lucky and fast enough to catch it in both cases. 

 

But to some extent you can predict if you know when the egg was bred. people do it all the time with the thuwed eggs. I suspect that the players who frequently have cb pink sapphires to trade are working together to make that happen, and I'm not faulting or complaining, just stating a fact. I would think the number of people getting planned catches exceeds the number of people who randomly catch them, maybe by quite a bit.

[HeatherMarie]

3 hours ago, MissK. said:

Pink sapphires aren't generated based on ratios though, only the blue ones are. The pinks are dependent on how many people decide to then abandon them to the AP, which could vary immensely from their intended rarity. And of course they are indeed not in the market, nor do I really expect them to be since Infinis gave specific options about any changes to their mechanism.

 

This. It's really just not comparable with any other rares (or comparable to the cave generating them). Rares that drop in the cave are controlled by ratios and the cave itself. Pink Sapphires are not, at all. Pink Sapphires are not dependent on the biomes, not dependent on breeding, not governed by ratios. They rely *solely* on a user dropping them to the AP. That is the *only* way they are made. Ratios aren't going to step in and say that more pinks need to be dropped. Nothing is going to make more pinks appear except *other users*.  So yes, it's completely different. 

(Also, I'll point out again that while some people prefer CBs, not all do. AP-eggs not being guaranteed to be CB is not the big issue, since not everyone cares whether it's CB or not. The big issue is that no matter the lineage, pinks will not appear in the AP at all unless someone else decides to abandon them. This is a brand-new mechanism... We have breed-only breeds, we have other things not available as CB at *all*... It's the AP-ing that makes this so different.)

 

I don't expect that they'll ever be in the Market or available any other way than what we currently have, but if any change is made it would almost certainly be the low-view option because that's the one the spriter has agreed with. Them being in the Market was never an option, really.

Edited August 23, 2021 by HeatherMarie

[UnicornMaiden]

7 hours ago, Elizabeth Moonstone said:

You do need another user to create a Pink Sapphire but most of the time, you don’t know them so their abandoning the egg acts like a random drop. Somebody abandons a CB Sapphire, some time later (might be several days) it drops in the AP. You cannot predict or control the drop of this CB Pink Sapphire in the AP, just like you can’t control or predict a CB Gold appearing in the Cave. You have to be lucky and fast enough to catch it in both cases. 

 

Here is a thought experiment: imagine, instead of the abandon mechanism,  that the cave algorithm would just generate CB Pink Sapphires among normal AP eggs. It would happen rarely, at random times and the generated eggs would look like regular AP eggs. There would be no other user involved but the way to get a CB Pink Sapphire would be exactly as it is now (hunt them in the AP and hope for the best). 

 

I think the issue with CB Pink Sapphires is not “another user is needed to create them” but “they drop in the AP, and AP eggs are not guaranteed to be CBs”. If you see a Gold in the Cave, it’s guaranteed to be CB, if you see a Pink Sapphire in the AP, it’s most likely not CB (or not the lineage you want) and it frustrates people. One way to alleviate that would be to put CB Pink Sapphires in the Market, at the price of a rare dragon, so people who can’t or don’t wish to AP hunt, can still get one.

 

You are talking about this as if CBs were the only issue. For me the biggest issue is still the near-impossibility of using them to build lineages. I might have difficulty catching CB Golds, but once I have them I can use them to breed as many lineaged Golds as I want, and I can keep as many of those as I want to build longer lineages.

 

That is completely incomparable to any attempt to breed pink Sapphires. I could have a hundred CB pink Sapphires on my scroll, but if I want to breed them I am obligated to abandon them in order to make them the right color. I can't keep them to make longer projects. At best, I could rename the paarents, cross my fingers, and hope that whoever picked them up would be willing to give or trade them back to me, but that puts me at the mercy of other users in order to get my own eggs back for my own projects.

[Elizabeth Moonstone]

7 hours ago, Tawanda001 said:

But to some extent you can predict if you know when the egg was bred. people do it all the time with the thuwed eggs. I suspect that the players who frequently have cb pink sapphires to trade are working together to make that happen, and I'm not faulting or complaining, just stating a fact. I would think the number of people getting planned catches exceeds the number of people who randomly catch them, maybe by quite a bit.

I have caught multiple CB Pink Sapphires and my only method is to click on every  Pink Sapphire egg  I see in the AP. No working together with others.

I’ve also found plenty of beautifully bred Pink Sapphires like purebred, checkers… but if you want something truly specific, it would be hard to find in the AP indeed. 

[lexi_]

its been 3 months since the release, and im chiming in to say i rarely see pink sapphires in the AP anyway, now. and im pretty picky about lineage most of the time, so even if i do happen to see one it most likely wont be to my liking anyway. i start classes now too, so i have even less time to hunt the ap, so less of a chance that ill happen to be in the right place at the right time, when someone else just happened to abandon a sapphire and have it show up for me to catch. i check in on the site a few times a day for a few minutes, and i rarely see pink sapphires. i think it would be nice for players like me to be able to make their own with the low-view method on their own time. 

[purplehaze]

On 8/23/2021 at 2:19 AM, Elizabeth Moonstone said:

I have caught multiple CB Pink Sapphires and my only method is to click on every  Pink Sapphire egg  I see in the AP. No working together with others.

Glad to hear that you have been so lucky finding CBs. I really am because it seems to indicate that at least they are out there! I have not been so lucky. In the past week I have spent a lot of time in the AP hunting them (at least an hour a day). In that week I saw (and missed) exactly one pink Sapphire egg and when I put its code into a lineage link to check, it was not CB anyway -- although a nice 2G PB that would make someone happy. I am not asking to have pinks handed out like candy. I just want to feel like I have some chance of getting them. I have too many breed variants all of a sudden that I feel totally hopeless about ever reaching my scroll goals for. It is really robbing me of the joy of playing this game.

Edited August 30, 2021 by purplehaze

[Elizabeth Moonstone]

@purplehaze I completely understand your frustration. I had to adjust some of my own scroll goals because I was getting too unhappy with how impossible some dragons are to obtain. I pretty much gave up on catching rares in the cave, I only go now for NRs or for specific commons I can’t find in the AP.  Since I’m in the AP all the time, I see Pink Sapphires drop, sometimes several in a row, sometimes none for a while. I click on all of them and occasionally they are CB or have a nice lineage. I enjoy doing that because it’s the one rare (or semi rare) egg I can catch with my play style. 

[Spicedpunch]

4 months later and it's the same sentiments being rehashed in different ways with 0 progress to a solution. The artist has already offered up possible solutions that they would be okay with (as they seem to have a specific vision for their breed, it makes sense to use these rather than coming up with our own that will most likely be rejected)- can we not first hold a poll to confirm that most people are indeed unhappy with current pink Sapph mechanics, and then [pending its success] a follow up poll with the artist's suggestions so that something can either finally be done or just put to rest so we stop getting our hopes up about change?

[Fuzzbucket]

Polls do not happen in suggestions. TJ nixed them as they will never, can never, represent the whole player base.,

[Paradisiske]

At this point in time I do not think a change is going to happen even with the artist's blessing. Maybe tj feels that it would create a worrisome precedent? 

 

There are ways to get the cb pink sapphires it just requires teamwork and cooperation. If anyone is interested, I am part of a discord server which is dedicated to this. 

[HeatherMarie]

@Spicedpunch

 Some Suggestion threads go on for *years* before being implemented (or shut down). There won't be polls because polls aren't allowed in Suggestion threads, they are never an accurate representation of the playerbase and don't actually help with anything. 4 months is not a long time when it comes to Suggestion threads, we can keep hashing this out, keep bumping the thread and pointing out the current situations, but there is no guarantee that there will be any official response to the thread at all, whether positive or negative.

[Shadowdrake]

Has anyone tested whether Infi's suggested mechanic doesn't work? Because TJ does have a tendency to update in quiet.

[Fuzzbucket]

2 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

Has anyone tested whether Infi's suggested mechanic doesn't work? Because TJ does have a tendency to update in quiet.

Good point. Away I go....

[OMGitsKairi]

On 8/22/2021 at 10:57 PM, UnicornMaiden said:

I could have a hundred CB pink Sapphires on my scroll, but if I want to breed them I am obligated to abandon them in order to make them the right color. I can't keep them to make longer projects. At best, I could rename the paarents, cross my fingers, and hope that whoever picked them up would be willing to give or trade them back to me, but that puts me at the mercy of other users in order to get my own eggs back for my own projects.

 

This is my biggest issue with the mechanic, personally. I do like the pink Sapphs and there are a few breeds I think they'd go nicely with. But I wouldn't dare try to do a lineage project with them. 

[Xopwe]

I think pinks are fine as is but I support making them easier. 

[Fuzzbucket]

On 9/22/2021 at 8:34 PM, Shadowdrake said:

Has anyone tested whether Infi's suggested mechanic doesn't work? Because TJ does have a tendency to update in quiet.

 

On 9/22/2021 at 10:51 PM, Fuzzbucket said:

Good point. Away I go....

 

WELL - infinis said 500 views would be too low, and somewhere she suggested 1000 might be OK. I can verify that <1000 won't do it - yet anyway.

 

 

Now I think I will turn it yellow....

[BringsTheSnow]

On 8/22/2021 at 3:26 PM, Elizabeth Moonstone said:

You do need another user to create a Pink Sapphire but most of the time, you don’t know them so their abandoning the egg acts like a random drop. Somebody abandons a CB Sapphire, some time later (might be several days) it drops in the AP. You cannot predict or control the drop of this CB Pink Sapphire in the AP, just like you can’t control or predict a CB Gold appearing in the Cave. You have to be lucky and fast enough to catch it in both cases. 

 

Here is a thought experiment: imagine, instead of the abandon mechanism,  that the cave algorithm would just generate CB Pink Sapphires among normal AP eggs. It would happen rarely, at random times and the generated eggs would look like regular AP eggs. There would be no other user involved but the way to get a CB Pink Sapphire would be exactly as it is now (hunt them in the AP and hope for the best). 

 

I think the issue with CB Pink Sapphires is not “another user is needed to create them” but “they drop in the AP, and AP eggs are not guaranteed to be CBs”. If you see a Gold in the Cave, it’s guaranteed to be CB, if you see a Pink Sapphire in the AP, it’s most likely not CB (or not the lineage you want) and it frustrates people. One way to alleviate that would be to put CB Pink Sapphires in the Market, at the price of a rare dragon, so people who can’t or don’t wish to AP hunt, can still get one.

I actually REALLY like this suggestion for the AP generated pink sapphires. I don't think it is likely to be implemented but if it was, I would happily support it. 

 

By far, the most convincing argument I have seen is to have them at an inflated price in the market. If is a known mechanic (nothing new to confuse people) and would allow a single user to get their egg without relying on anyone else's help. 

 

My preference is still to keep things the way the spriter designed, but I would support either of these changes to the mechanic.

[sorenna]

Still hoping for an alternative method for Pink Sapphires, if Infinis is still on board.  I'm in the boat with Purplehaze, months after release and I haven't caught a single CB one.  Rarely see them in the AP at all, in the past month or so.

[Beldarius]

I'm also interested in an alternative method - I've been trying to hunt or trade for one, but almost every trade for a CB asks for things most users don't have (2G Prizes, 2G Prizekins, and always of a certain pairing which effectively cuts at least half of CB Prize owners from the equation; CB metals, usually multiples). The CBs are starting to reach Neglected level of rarity and trade value, which doesn't sound right. And if you try to hunt for one in the AP... well, that's hours out of your life catching even one.

 

One possible solution is to make Sapphires in the cave more common so people catch and abandon them more. Sapphire rarity in the Cave itself is way too low at the moment, I haven't seen a single one for several days. Not sure if it's because people keep grabbing them so fast, or if it's been lowered to uncommon rarity for some reason.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Beldarius

[Guillotine]

It's definitely just high demand due to two new sprites and being spread across every biome--i see the blues in biomes about as frequently as other user-driven uncommons with similar biome limits. But that still means only a portion of those trickle into the AP, bc people still want yellow and blue sapphires, so the demand for pinks is probably never settling down at this point.

[purplehaze]

I have managed, with the generous help of others, to get several CB pink Sapphires (although I still need more to reach my goal). But the sticking point for me is going to be building lineages with them. That becomes almost impossible. I am really hoping for another way to get pink ones, so that lineages can be built reliably with my own dragons.

[UnicornMaiden]

On 10/23/2021 at 10:13 AM, purplehaze said:

But the sticking point for me is going to be building lineages with them. That becomes almost impossible. I am really hoping for another way to get pink ones, so that lineages can be built reliably with my own dragons.

 

 

This