Pink Sapphire mechanism

[Guillotine]

I mean, part of it is I suspect that Saphs aren't being generated as much anymore. When I said "saphs" I meant I went from seeing them fairly often in the cave to seeing none. People buying and APing market Saphs to help ease early demand I think may have caused the ratios to get hostile faster than usual.

[MissK.]

I also noticed that there have been fewer pink sapphires in the AP lately. And when it comes to CBs, aside from the ones I've been precariously bouncing with my friend, I have seen exactly 0 in the past couple of weeks. At least earlier on I saw several especially from the market that people kindly abandoned, which seems to be much less frequent now, understandably. It definitely seems like it'll take a long time for sapphire rarity to be even remotely restored and I still support an alternate method to make them less of a pain.

 

2 hours ago, Guillotine said:

I mean, part of it is I suspect that Saphs aren't being generated as much anymore. When I said "saphs" I meant I went from seeing them fairly often in the cave to seeing none. People buying and APing market Saphs to help ease early demand I think may have caused the ratios to get hostile faster than usual.

 

I do wonder if the ratios are tweaked when something like this happens. I mean, sapphires were a common breed with one variant, and now there are 3 variants...surely they should get a boost to adjust for 3x the amount of sprites before letting the ratios balance them out. And yet they didn't seem to pop up any more frequently than before the release, if anything it's probably less like you said. (Obviously I don't expect we'll get any information on that, just speculating.)

[Fuzzbucket]

Just bred and dumped all mine....

[Fuzzbucket]

After the last thread about this was closed by the OP, some people wanted to carry on the discussion so - 

 

Many players have issues with having to rely on the AP/the hub/contact on forum to find pink sapphires, and have asked for an alternative method to be considered. CBs are asking enormous prices in the hub, and trying to build a lineage is all but impossible, as you cannot breed your own dragons and assume you can, once abandoned, get them back from the AP, or that you will find one there that fits your line.

 

On the other hand their creator designed them to be found primarily in the AP, to make that area more interesting - and it does indeed now seem to be more varied, since so many players camp out there in the hope of finding one.

 

While I don’t think anyone wants to see them completely changed against Infinis’ wishes, and while the AP side of it does mean the AP is being used a lot more,  some suggestions have been made to make lineage building easier, and for it to be possible to manage to get CBs without having to rely on the kindness of other players - especially as many of us like to play in a very solitary way. I can’t remember them all but what I recall from an older thread is two suggestions that might work, if their creator would permit.

 

One is to make it possible to create a pink from a blue by raising one with minimal views - the reverse of what is now the case with yellows. Infinis has said she might just be prepared to consider this. This would, at least in part, get past the current frustration with very few players being able to get a CB.

 

The other, unrelated idea, which would be primarily of use to lineage builders, would be to have them breed true - or even just occasionally breed true; to make it hard but not impossible to build a line with them - like trying to build a checker with red dorsals and red nebulas… (yes, some people are mad enough to do this…)

 

Thoughts or other options ? - but not gripes that go in circles, please !

[Darkrat]

I will say support for either especially as, they still appear to be hard to grab and are possibly bred less often. In addition the hub trades even for non cb pink sapphires are still pretty bad.

 

Most are 2g pink sapphires where they either want a harder to get cb (such as canto) or they bundle multiple together to ask for even rarer things. 

 

 

 

 

[Quinney]

I like the minimal view for a CB idea.

[ShorahNagi]

34 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

make it possible to create a pink from a blue by raising one with minimal views

Personally, I still feel like this is the most viable option aside from "catch off the AP". With the yellow Sapphire and Neglecteds- the groundwork is already there for this to be implemented.

 

Yes, it would mean this is a dragon with two methods of obtaining (something I don't think any other dragon has*) but it would mean players (both social and solitary) can continue to collect/build lineages as they please.

 

*I'm not including the market as a way to get dragons here as not all dragons are avaible in the market

[HeatherMarie]

I do think the low-view idea is the best bet we have, the one most likely to actually happen. It makes perfect sense, too, it's exactly the opposite of the other Sapphire alt that requires lots of views. And if the low-view threshold is low enough, it will ensure that the main way users get pinks will still be the AP, as Infinis wanted. 

 

(I'm personally still upset that CB *blue* Sapphires are now literally extinct in the AP, but I realize the pinks are the bigger issue since you can still technically get CB blues from the biomes... If you can find them...)

[RainDear]

I would like a way to not have to depend on other players for the Pink Variant.

[Stormcaller]

57 minutes ago, RainDear said:

I would like a way to not have to depend on other players for the Pink Variant.

 

I agree with RainDear.  I'd like to be able to manage their color turning by myself.

[UnicornMaiden]

If I'm recalling the other thread correctly I think there were two possiblities put forward for the proposed low view mechanic. One was to have the egg hatch with fewer than a certain number of views. The other was to have the egg hatch with less than a certain amount of time left, like purple Siyats.

 

Personally I'm in favor of using time rather than view count for two reasons. One is that it seems more manageable. Purple Siyats require attention to get them to hatch within a small time frame (and without running out of time and dying), but it's perfectly doable, especially once you've practiced on a couple eggs. The other reason is that if <X views means a pink egg then theoretically all Sapphire eggs would be produced pink until they get enough views to be blue. That seems to go against their lore.

[HeatherMarie]

I think it could work if we just keep the blue as the default and then if the blue egg *hatches* under a certain view-count it will turn pink. While that would mean you would have blue eggs until it hatches, I think that would also make sense since the primary mechanism should still be the AP way. So, if you specifically want a pink *egg* for whatever reason, you have to hunt the AP or trade. If you just want the pink Sapphire in general (like to continue a lineage) then it should work fine for it to be blue to start with and then hatch pink if the requirement is met.

 

edit: I also think the view-count would maybe be harder or require more effort than just a time-mechanic like Siyats, which again would tie in with the AP still being the primary way to get pinks. It's really easy to let an egg get down to super-low time, it takes more effort to get an egg to hatch (at any time-point) under a certain view-count.

Edited July 7, 2021 by HeatherMarie

[Fuzzbucket]

@Infinis your input would be very helpful.

[Chaosdawn]

1 hour ago, HeatherMarie said:

edit: I also think the view-count would maybe be harder or require more effort than just a time-mechanic like Siyats, which again would tie in with the AP still being the primary way to get pinks. It's really easy to let an egg get down to super-low time, it takes more effort to get an egg to hatch (at any time-point) under a certain view-count.

 

This is the reason I support the view count. Otherwise it's just a repeat of the siyat mechanic. Which isn't to say that I wouldn't like the pink sapphires to be easy to get, but I don't think it fits the lore/reasoning behind them becoming pink. It should be really difficult to do, like neglecteds, since they're basically just a step above them. 

[Tetelestai]

Total support for a low view mechanic. I'm not someone that likes to have to rely on others in order to get a dragon. It's a neat mechanic, I won't lie, but forget building lineages with them. I'm thankful I have a good friend on here and we came up with an idea. I used my shards to buy some sapphires, and then abandon them at a very low time. My friend waited on the AP refreshing and she managed to catch all but one of them. She did the same for me, and I was able to catch most of them this way as well. There would be no way for someone to build lineages though. I'm primary a CB collector, so this method worked fine for me.

 

I don't need every egg to be easy to catch/get (I'm still struggling with hybrids from the birthday release), but it shouldn't just be 'be in the right spot at the right time'. Bothers me to see people trading CB ones for high prices because someone was generous enough to abandon it in the first place.

[Tini]

2 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

@Infinis your input would be very helpful.

Infi's opinion last time was, and remains, if TJ wants to implement a 'if hatched under x views its pink' mechanic, that's okay. The exact quote was something to the effect of "You have to nd it to get it low enough" Infi said multiple times last time they didn't want to be pinged for this. My brain thinks the number was 400 but I'm not sure about that, it was under 1k though.

 

I imagine that if it was the time mechanic instead, it'd be under 1 hour, to keep to the ND spirit of the change.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Tini

[Infinis]

Quote

CBs are asking enormous prices in the hub

 

I don't agree that something having value is in any way a problem! I think it's great that a breed that used to sit in the biomes is getting snatched now and has trade value on its own. I don't think the value of CB pink sapphires is outsized in relation to the difficulty in getting them.

 

My only concern with the pink mechanic is that the intentional abandon mechanic remains the easiest. I am open to adding an additional method that doesn't supersede the AP method, but that provides a challenge. 

 

• a low view mechanic - hatch under 1k views. that still provides a 3k range for blues, and will be no harder to get blues than it currently is because most eggs will hit 1k without effort - to hatch under 1k you still need sit on it until it's pretty low time. it will be a bit easier for eggs you breed that remain on your scroll, too, since eggs you breed and then keep on your scroll get a parent bonus.
  • it was suggested on discord that it could go up to 1.5k; concerned that this narrows the range for blues too much without an increase to the min views to turn yellow (which brings with it its own concern, because the higher the viewcount needed for yellow, the harder it is to get yellow eggs).
  • i think 500 is now too low. x'D not actually sure eggs can even hatch with that few without dying from the timer running out.

 

-or-

 

• *occasionally they breed true. doesn't work on cbs (obviously lol) but this does help lineage builders.

 

I prefer the low views, because it provides a workable method for both CBs and breds. It also provides enough of a challenge that the AP method remains the easiest, and fits with the notion of lonely eggs.

I do not want to duplicate the siyats' time-based mechanic. Pink sapphs are lonely eggs...you must yeet them (or ignore them) 😔 

 

I'd prefer that intentional abandoning results only in pink sapphires, not blue ones (an intentional abandon to get a pink only for it to stay blue would be SO ANNOYING x.x). The method was considered with no more AP cb blues in mind. I don't think it's terrible to need to hunt or buy your own cb blues. 😕 Rarity didn't change; demand increased, so instead of sitting like they used to, they're actually getting picked up (yay). 

[Nakti]

37 minutes ago, Infinis said:

Rarity didn't change; demand increased

The increase of demand at least tripled as there are three sprites instead of one. Even if rarity of the breed doesn't spike due to raised demand, rarity of each form is higher (as there are three forms for unchanged egg pool).

 

33 minutes ago, Infinis said:

instead of sitting like they used to, they're actually getting picked up (yay). 

I cannot say that sapphire was as common as other cave-blockers even before May. However, if this is the course the developement is taking, it's definitely cool: if common breeds were required for bsas, hybrids (instead of picking white again and again), or receive cool new morphs, that would gradually make all eggs wanted, not only a few breeds (out of few hundred) each year.

[Shadowdrake]

I have some data I tracked for neglecting purposes, and it looks like needing under 1000 views would on average require eggs to be hatched between 1-2 days (or lower), unincubated. Not impossible, but will likely require some strategy as plopping in ERs can make ovs go high rather quickly.

 

 

Spoiler

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Shadowdrake

[UnicornMaiden]

2 hours ago, Infinis said:

• a low view mechanic - hatch under 1k views. that still provides a 3k range for blues, and will be no harder to get blues than it currently is because most eggs will hit 1k without effort - to hatch under 1k you still need sit on it until it's pretty low time. it will be a bit easier for eggs you breed that remain on your scroll, too, since eggs you breed and then keep on your scroll get a parent bonus.
  • it was suggested on discord that it could go up to 1.5k; concerned that this narrows the range for blues too much without an increase to the min views to turn yellow (which brings with it its own concern, because the higher the viewcount needed for yellow, the harder it is to get yellow eggs).
  • i think 500 is now too low. x'D not actually sure eggs can even hatch with that few without dying from the timer running out.

 

I like this. It would require care and attention but would be doable. It would also work both for people who want CBs and for people building lineages. It's also something people can have control over without needing to rely on other players.

[Fuzzbucket]

10 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

edit: I also think the view-count would maybe be harder or require more effort than just a time-mechanic like Siyats, which again would tie in with the AP still being the primary way to get pinks. It's really easy to let an egg get down to super-low time, it takes more effort to get an egg to hatch (at any time-point) under a certain view-count.

 

9 hours ago, Chaosdawn said:

This is the reason I support the view count. Otherwise it's just a repeat of the siyat mechanic. Which isn't to say that I wouldn't like the pink sapphires to be easy to get, but I don't think it fits the lore/reasoning behind them becoming pink. It should be really difficult to do, like neglecteds, since they're basically just a step above them. 

 

i'm with both these.

 

7 hours ago, Infinis said:

 

I don't agree that something having value is in any way a problem! I think it's great that a breed that used to sit in the biomes is getting snatched now and has trade value on its own. I don't think the value of CB pink sapphires is outsized in relation to the difficulty in getting them.

 

My only concern with the pink mechanic is that the intentional abandon mechanic remains the easiest. I am open to adding an additional method that doesn't supersede the AP method, but that provides a challenge. 

 

• a low view mechanic - hatch under 1k views. that still provides a 3k range for blues, and will be no harder to get blues than it currently is because most eggs will hit 1k without effort - to hatch under 1k you still need sit on it until it's pretty low time. it will be a bit easier for eggs you breed that remain on your scroll, too, since eggs you breed and then keep on your scroll get a parent bonus.
  • it was suggested on discord that it could go up to 1.5k; concerned that this narrows the range for blues too much without an increase to the min views to turn yellow (which brings with it its own concern, because the higher the viewcount needed for yellow, the harder it is to get yellow eggs).
  • i think 500 is now too low. x'D not actually sure eggs can even hatch with that few without dying from the timer running out.

-or-

• *occasionally they breed true. doesn't work on cbs (obviously lol) but this does help lineage builders.

 

I prefer the low views, because it provides a workable method for both CBs and breds. It also provides enough of a challenge that the AP method remains the easiest, and fits with the notion of lonely eggs.

I do not want to duplicate the siyats' time-based mechanic. Pink sapphs are lonely eggs...you must yeet them (or ignore them) 😔 

 

This all makes great sense to me. Especially the bit about doing lineages with low views as well. And I have no issue with no new CB blues in the AP - they can be found in the cave. Maybe not as easy to find as they were - but so what - golds, silvers and Stats remain harder. I'm sure TJ can work out a suitable low view level that won't result in certain death. I have several adults with views in the low 1,000s, so it needn't be very high. 

 

7 hours ago, Infinis said:

I'd prefer that intentional abandoning results only in pink sapphires, not blue ones (an intentional abandon to get a pink only for it to stay blue would be SO ANNOYING x.x). The method was considered with no more AP cb blues in mind. I don't think it's terrible to need to hunt or buy your own cb blues. 😕 Rarity didn't change; demand increased, so instead of sitting like they used to, they're actually getting picked up (yay). 

 

Fair enough. They are your dragons. Thank you for showing up, Infinis.

 

6 hours ago, Nakti said:

The increase of demand at least tripled as there are three sprites instead of one. Even if rarity of the breed doesn't spike due to raised demand, rarity of each form is higher (as there are three forms for unchanged egg pool).

 

I cannot say that sapphire was as common as other cave-blockers even before May. However, if this is the course the development is taking, it's definitely cool: if common breeds were required for bsas, hybrids (instead of picking white again and again), or receive cool new morphs, that would gradually make all eggs wanted, not only a few breeds (out of few hundred) each year.

 

This is also true.

6 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

I have some data I tracked for neglecting purposes, and it looks like needing under 1000 views would on average require eggs to be hatched between 1-2 days (or lower), unincubated. Not impossible, but will likely require some strategy as plopping in ERs can make ovs go high rather quickly.

 

 

  Hide contents

 

That would still be very do-able - going by all my neglected fails that reverted to breed !

 

 

[Kestra62]

oh dear i was worried the thread was taken down by mods i didnt know you could hide them or take em down yourself o.O 

ill keep my suggestions that id love to see simple

 

- Time based mechanic like the syats seem lovely

- Low veiws to hatch also seem lovely (as long as it isnt as extreme as the Neglected Dragons) 

- Maybe you could do something like if you hatch the egg as a hatchling and then hide it till maybe the last few days itll hatch itll turn pink? (basiclly isolate the egg away from other hatchlings/clicks) but if you do not hide a sapphire but give it low veiws itll still turn blue/yellow 

- Any mechanic as long as i do not have to rely on other people to use (as i have no friends on dragcave it makes it very hard to do certain mechanics such as orange cantros or pink sapphires, i didnt get ahold of an orange cantro till this release i never got them last release lol nobody would trade with me as everyone was basiclly doing it with their friends, it makes it very discoraging and very hard to do these kinds of things when im basiclly required to have player two when i dont have a second controller) 

 

The main reason why id like the pink sapphires to change is 

it makes the game incredibly frustrating especally when my only goal was a pair of CBs 

I have had to bend over backwards staying up multiple nights hunting for metals/xenos/gemshards to trade for the hopes of getting them

i even tried a CB silver and some CB xenos and i still could not get an offer (and by the time i traded my egg away beacuse it was dying someone had a cb sapphire theyd trade for a silver and i was so furious) 

 

and even then when i finally get them i cant properly build a linage with them beacuse i have to abandon every egg i get just to get them to turn pink

especally if i build these linages with niche dragons and not what everyone else is doing 

this mechanic is a straight shot to the chops for people who like linage building and all it does is put in unneeded frustration 

 

another thing is the AP is dependant on playerbase they are slowly dissapearing to almost be nonexistant making them even rarer 

i see more people catching sapphires in general to turn yellow then i do to turn pink i mean what is going to happen during the holidays? they will basiclly be nonexistant until after them

 

in my personal opinion having something neet and cool and rare show up once in a blue moon in the AP is not worth all of the negatives it brings.

 

i hope this wasnt negative or to long i just wanted to put my opinion out especally after the thread dissapeared it felt like nobody wanted to hear them after the thread dissapeared ^^" 

[missy_]

On 7/7/2021 at 4:40 PM, HeatherMarie said:

I think it could work if we just keep the blue as the default and then if the blue egg *hatches* under a certain view-count it will turn pink. While that would mean you would have blue eggs until it hatches, I think that would also make sense since the primary mechanism should still be the AP way. So, if you specifically want a pink *egg* for whatever reason, you have to hunt the AP or trade. If you just want the pink Sapphire in general (like to continue a lineage) then it should work fine for it to be blue to start with and then hatch pink if the requirement is met.

 

edit: I also think the view-count would maybe be harder or require more effort than just a time-mechanic like Siyats, which again would tie in with the AP still being the primary way to get pinks. It's really easy to let an egg get down to super-low time, it takes more effort to get an egg to hatch (at any time-point) under a certain view-count.

Begrudingly, I support the view-count mechanic—even though I believe it would be difficult for me personally to get a Pink Sapphire in that manner. (It would be so much easier if it was like the Siyats! Ahh, well.  )  In the spirit of keeping Pink Sapphires rare and hard to create, it makes sense to require a low view count of around 1000. I don’t know if I can manage it. I generally have high views on my eggs by the time they hatch. So the egg would require a great deal of coddling and finesse not to get too many views, yet still hatch.

[sorenna]

I like the idea of a very low hatching view count - 999 and under?    I'm another who has a habitual system for hatching eggs that would definitely blow past that unless I paid attention, but that just makes it kind of fun, like trying to get them to turn yellow while still eggs.  (I have managed this for... 1 of my 4 yellow Sapphs!  Need more practice...) 

Edited July 10, 2021 by sorenna

[Nalyua]

I agree with low views whole heartedly.

 

As for CB Blue ones, they are still available via the market as a means aside from getting them via the cave, so we do have a way for every one to have a chance.