Trading CB Dragons for Shards

[Nalyua]

Well like I said, if the eggs are redirected to the AP, or shards are awarded for dropping the CBs there then I'd support it as a means to get extra shards.

 

Otherwise yes, sorry, I think it's a terrible idea.

 

Though that is fine, I guess people can't always be of one opinion. So you don't have to be defensive about your idea, I understood it the first time. I just don't think it will work without making the AP less varied. Especially as Infinis already went ahead and tried to implement stuff that makes the AP more appealing for people (with the side effect of a lot of stress for many players). So taking away from it just does not seem like something I want to support.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Nalyua

[dragongrrl]

12 hours ago, Nalyua said:

How many people have more than 5 misclicks a week? 🤔

 

I have maybe 1-2 a month....

 

Directing those traded in eggs to the AP or recieving Shards for dropping CB eggs (to some extent) would be a support from me. The rest? Nope.

I tend to have up to a half dozen in a day, especially since the anniversary release, which raised the percentage of Cave hunting necessary for my goals. I normally hunt the AP for about 75-85 percent of the time and the Cave maybe 15-25 percent. I'm now spending 50 percent in the Cave for my goals. 

 

I managed to get new Florets from the Cave but all my Cantos and all but one of my Gemshards have been from the Market. Haven't even gotten to the Sapphires or Electrics yet. Wiped out all my saved shards, and I'm still nowhere near four CB breeding pairs of each variant.

 

Now, I am working on a lineage with the Gemshards, still need an Amethyst and a Citrine. I have nothing to trade for those who want CB Golds, Silvers or 2g SALTs or Prizes. These are 100 shard eggs. If I could trade in a Nexus that got in the way of my click, it would help. Otherwise, I'll raise it myself. I don't want to trade in all the misclicks, just the ones that have value but can't be traded for what I need. The Dorsal, Canopy, Horse or Bright Breasted Wyvern will probably still go to the AP. If I had enough extra shards, I could buy Sapphires to drop in the AP.

 

But the 100 shard limit per week is killing me when the Market is the only way I can be sure I will get the eggs I need.

[missy_]

While it sounds kind of neat, I don’t support it because it is already difficult enough to find caveborn eggs in the AP.  If CBs became even more valuable—and they already are valuable, as many trades ask for CB hatchies—they may become impossible to find.  Especially if people are combing the AP looking for cave born eggs so they can trade them in for shards.

 

ETA: And while this suggestion was not meant for eggs directly hunted from the AP, it would directly affect the AP, because fewer CB eggs would be released to the AP. 
 

Fewer caveborn eggs dropped to the AP means fewer caveborn eggs to hunt, meaning an increased rarity in all types of caveborn eggs.

Edited July 13, 2021 by missy_

[dragongrrl]

2 minutes ago, missy_ said:

While it sounds kind of neat, I don’t support it because it is already difficult enough to find caveborn eggs in the AP.  If CBs became even more valuable—and they already are valuable, as many trades ask for CB hatchies—they may become impossible to find.  Especially if people are combing the AP looking for cave born eggs so they can trade them in for shards.

Most of my CBs over the years have come from the AP, my Frills, Mints, Royal Crimsons and many, many more.

 

Again, this is not for any AP CBs, only CBs you have picked up directly from the Biomes.

[missy_]

Something that has not been mentioned is the arbitrary shard numbers on market eggs.  For example, the arbitrarily high price of a Magma.  We know that most people are not ever going to buy a (insert your breed of choice here) for that high price in the market.   Most of us know that a Nexus is not really worth 700 shards, and neither are several of those other “artificially inflated” market priced dragon eggs.  I know that TJ has his reasons for the way he has set up the market and number of shards that are listed to purchase X dragon.  But realistically, we also know, as players, that the “rarity” of an item in the market (the amount of shards it costs) is not in line with what we could realistically expect to get for that item in a real trade.

 

Therefore, let’s say for example that someone decides to trade in a high-value egg (as determined by market place shard value) such as a Magma for shards.  Let’s say that it is a percentage so they get a higher number of shards for trading in the Magma.  What this does for Magmas in general is make them even more rare.  Anything with a higher price in the market and a higher shard count is going to automatically be rarer, even if in reality, in real trading, it isn’t.  For example, that Nexus that most people don’t care about, that most would never buy for 700 shards, is going to now become rarer due to its shard value if, by clicking one in the Cave, one can trade it for more shards.

Edited July 13, 2021 by missy_
Correcting auto-correct spelling

[Fuzzbucket]

The market prices are (TJ says) based on the demand from players. So clearly there are players out there who are willing to save up for those prices. I know I did for golds. Why wouldn't someone who loves Nexus dragons do the same ? You can't say Nexus eggs aren't worth 700 shards. You have no idea how many people buy them - no-one knows that but TJ.

 

In any event - market prices have nothing to do with this suggestion, which would, if implemented, make almost no difference to how fast you could earn shards.

[HeatherMarie]

I definitely have my doubts that Market prices are at all tied to 'demand from players'. Just *try* trading a CB Magma and see the types of offers you get. They are ridiculously overpriced for no apparent reason.

And it's a good point, and one of the reasons I'm iffy on the possible mechanics of a suggestion like this. The ridiculously-high prices for breeds that are actually found in the cave more often than the 'true rares', it wouldn't be fair or keeping with the spirit of the 'low weekly shard limit) to be able to trade in those cbs for month's worth of shards. That's why I personally would prefer a flat-rate, you get X amount of shards for turning in any CB no matter what breed. 

 

Or, this might be fine too:

On 6/6/2021 at 1:07 AM, KageSora said:

Some sort of total trade-in shard cap

• Cap shards earned at something like maybe Y% market value or X number, whichever is the lesser.  So, say...  10% or 50 shards, just as random numbers.  If you trade in something worth 100, you get 10 shards.  If you trade in something worth 500, you get 50 shards.  If you trade in something worth 1000, you still only get 50 shards.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

In any event - market prices have nothing to do with this suggestion, which would, if implemented, make almost no difference to how fast you could earn shards.

 

Well, that depends entirely on what limits/restrictions were put in place. Getting extra shards for turning in CBs would by definition give you more shards, therefore earning shards faster. That's why the talk about strict caps on number of eggs traded in, caps on how much you can get from trading in different breeds, etc is important.

Edited July 13, 2021 by HeatherMarie

[missy_]

On 6/5/2021 at 6:01 PM, dragongrrl said:

 

I've got a Nebula misclick, currently worth 800 shards, and I really don't need it. After it's five hour cooldown, it could be traded in, I would receive 800 shards, or at least a percentage of the value.

 

3 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

In any event - market prices have nothing to do with this suggestion

Boldface emphasis by me.

 

The original suggestion was tied directly to the value of dragons per their market price/shard value.

 

There is that thread “Watching the Market“ in which we can see (in the comments) that the “real trade value” of an egg does not match its shard value. I don’t think any of us really 100% knows why (all the reasons) the market has those prices.  If TJ says it is based on player demand, it still doesn’t mean that is the only thing driving it. For example, there are players who might see that a Nexus cost 700 shards in the market and, therefore, assume it is worth a lot in trade. I have seen that happen. I have seen Nexus up for trade for days and people asking insane things for them like a CB Gold or ND because, I assume, they look at the market shard price and assume they are worth a lot.

 

In other words, it plays out in reverse. People mistakenly base their idea of what a dragon is worth based on its market value.  Players check the market, look at the shard price of a dragon, and may begin to collect—or even buy with shards—those dragons or offer those dragons in trade based on those shard prices. So although TJ says it is based on “player demand,” it could be that the market is reverse-driving player demand by arbitrarily setting prices on some dragons “based on player demand” when “player demand” is based on perceived value of an egg based on its market value.

Edited July 14, 2021 by missy_

[PrincessLucy]

This sounds too complicated.

 

I wish we could get more than 100 shards a week, as in simply increasing the weekly limit to 200, but without doubling the cost of a market egg. Some of these are way too much to begin with.

 

*Kicks self for not getting a second Stat when they were under 2k*

[Stormcaller]

18 hours ago, KageSora said:

Eggs traded in at the market get placed in the AP.

 

IMHO, this is a very good idea.  It wouldn't hurt the AP, in fact it might enrich it.  It's possible that it  could offset the loss to CB collectors due to the creation of walls.

 

I would support this idea as long as it was kept simple and limited to a reasonable amount of "misclicks."

[Nalyua]

9 hours ago, dragongrrl said:

 

 

Again, this is not for any AP CBs, only CBs you have picked up directly from the Biomes.

 

 

And again I tell you that many misclicks end up in the AP. So eliminating those misclicks from going there WILL affect the AP, no matter if you do not intend for that to happen.

 

There simply is no way to implement what you are wishing without affecting the AP.

 

Unless you make those eggs that are traded in available via AP the AP will take a direct hit from this suggestion.

 

And quite frankly: I think if TJ wished for us to get more shards he could easily up the limits of shards available via scroll actions. I am not very active and I still manage to get reach the limit around mid-week. As far as I understood however the idea was that you have a low number available every week and that you have to save up for something is very much intended.

 

I view the market as a way to obtain stuff that would normally take me weeks to hunt for on the Biomes, so it is perfectly acceptable that I will have to earn the shards over a longer time instead of being able just to have large numbers on hand. And I think it is intended that the main obtaining area for eggs are the Main Cave and the AP (with a side of trades), so making significantly more shards available kind of defeats the purpose.

 

Aside of that ... if those CBs are so ridiculously common as someone put it then there is no point bothering with the higher amount of shards needed anyway, just grab it out of the cave then?

 

As for people demanind silly stuff in trades, meh happens. Just not offer on those trades? If I put my stuff out there repeatedly without getting any offers I do start some thinking and come up with the fact that maybe I got my values wrong. And yes that happens even for experianced players since those things do change every now and then.

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

15 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

I definitely have my doubts that Market prices are at all tied to 'demand from players'. Just *try* trading a CB Magma and see the types of offers you get. They are ridiculously overpriced for no apparent reason.

 

Actually I have done exactly that - put one up for "offers" and got - 3 CB cantos - which aren't easy to find outside the market, these days

 

Quote

 

  On 6/5/2021 at 11:01 PM, dragongrrl said:

I've got a Nebula misclick, currently worth 800 shards, and I really don't need it. After it's five hour cooldown, it could be traded in, I would receive 800 shards, or at least a percentage of the value.

 

That's FAR too many. (Why has this slid across the box....)

 

On 6/5/2021 at 11:35 PM, HeatherMarie said:

This is.... An interesting idea. I would only support something like this if it was a relatively low amount of shards, though.  Think of it this way: We can earn a total of 100 shards per week. No higher, just a max of 100 per week, no matter how much we play or what we do. But trading in a single *mistake* from the biomes would give you two month's worth of shards? That seems pretty unbalanced to me. It would need to be a relatively low percentage of the price, or maybe even just a flat exchange rate for any CB 'traded in' regardless of breed.

 

Exactly this. A few shards MAYBE - but not the market price of the egg.

[Stormcaller]

On 7/13/2021 at 5:53 PM, missy_ said:

. People mistakenly base their idea of what a dragon is worth based on its market value.  Players check the market, look at the shard price of a dragon, and may begin to collect—or even buy with shards—those dragons or offer those dragons in trade based on those shard prices. So although TJ says it is based on “player demand,” it could be that the market is reverse-driving player demand by arbitrarily setting prices on some dragons “based on player demand” when “player demand” is based on perceived value of an egg based on its market value.

 

I suspect that this "player demand" means the highest number of shards that TJ can squeeze out of players for any given egg.  Remember that he sets the prices with no competition from anyone else.  True, some eggs are traded through the hub, but you can only make trades if you happen to have eggs or hatchlings that someone else wants and they are offering something you want.  There is no way to spend shards there.  Since there is no competition, TJ has a monopoly; he's entitled to charge whatever he wants.  Just like in RL, without competition, high prices are what you get. 

[Shadowdrake]

I don't believe TJ manages the shard count at all; he set a formula for it to abide by with no exceptions, and like many robots, it applies that formula without any regard for what looks reasonable to people. However, because trios are rare and have a multiplyer to match, population discrepancies are much more visible compared to commons which mostly hover at 100-1000 regardless of population. Perhaps there's an unknown magma collector whose hoarding and constant breeding has just set the magma price that much higher than the other two trios.

 

Edit: to get on topic, I don't believe making biome eggs viable for shard "double-dipping" is a good suggestion. Bred ratio differences are a lot starker, going by how long it takes for a new dragon to stop breeding nothing but itself, and having a biome egg be worth 5 shards for being grabbed plus even more shards for being traded in sounds like uneven gameplay, somehow.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Shadowdrake

[Fuzzbucket]

3 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

I don't believe TJ manages the shard count at all; he set a formula for it to abide by with no exceptions, and like many robots, it applies that formula without any regard for what looks reasonable to people. However, because trios are rare and have a multiplyer to match, population discrepancies are much more visible compared to commons which mostly hover at 100-1000 regardless of population. Perhaps there's an unknown magma collector whose hoarding and constant breeding has just set the magma price that much higher than the other two trios.

 

Edit: to get on topic, I don't believe making biome eggs viable for shard "double-dipping" is a good suggestion. Bred ratio differences are a lot starker, going by how long it takes for a new dragon to stop breeding nothing but itself, and having a biome egg be worth 5 shards for being grabbed plus even more shards for being traded in sounds like uneven gameplay, somehow.

 

Agree 1000%. 

[calona]

On 7/14/2021 at 8:19 AM, Nalyua said:

And quite frankly: I think if TJ wished for us to get more shards he could easily up the limits of shards available via scroll actions. I am not very active and I still manage to get reach the limit around mid-week. As far as I understood however the idea was that you have a low number available every week and that you have to save up for something is very much intended.

 

 

I agree, and same here for reaching the limit around mid-week. 

It's a bit frustating to wait that long for Dinos for example, but I think that is the purpose and I enjoy my rare market eggs a lot since I waited so long ! 💖

I don't think we should ask for more shards, and even if we did, it seems complicated to do this trading of missclicks instead of just increasing the limit, so I personally don't support this suggestion. 🙂