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dragongrrl

Trading CB Dragons for Shards

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Saw nothing like this in Suggestions, so here goes.

 

Don't know that this would ever be possible, but what if we could trade in the CB we misclicked on in the Cave and receive trade-in shards for it.

 

Whether it would be full amount or a percentage, (50%?) I leave up to the powers that be, but I think many of us have wiped out our shards with the current release. Since CBs are impossible to catch in the Cave for many of us, even Electrics are invisible, the market is the only way to get the eggs we need.

 

I've got a Nebula misclick, currently worth 800 shards, and I really don't need it. After it's five hour cooldown, it could be traded in, I would receive 800 shards, or at least a percentage of the value. I could then use those shards to purchase Cantos, Sapphires or whatever I need for my scroll  goals.

 

Any thoughts?

 

ETA: This is intended only for CB eggs we pick up in the Biomes. It is not intended for eggs from the AP, traded or gifted eggs, or for any hatchlings. The 5-hour cooldown would remain in place, and a time limit, maybe the egg's first 24 hours, should also be in place. Eggs with 6d0h or less would not be eligible for the exchange.

Edited by dragongrrl
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This is.... An interesting idea. I would only support something like this if it was a relatively low amount of shards, though.  Think of it this way: We can earn a total of 100 shards per week. No higher, just a max of 100 per week, no matter how much we play or what we do. But trading in a single *mistake* from the biomes would give you two month's worth of shards? That seems pretty unbalanced to me. It would need to be a relatively low percentage of the price, or maybe even just a flat exchange rate for any CB 'traded in' regardless of breed.

 

I would see it more like, to use a real-life example, recycling scrap metal. It's 'junk', it's not something you want, you are just going to toss it anyways, so instead you trade it in for a small amount of 'money'. 

 

In general I feel like this would just be too much though. The 100-a-week cap is there for a reason. You can find CB commons in the AP fairly frequently. Would I be able to get 500+ *extra* shards every week by 'trading in' all those CBs I pick out of the AP? What about biome-blockers, just load up your scroll with the eggs no one wants and get tons of extra shards in return? It just feels too much, why have a 100-shard cap at all then?

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Huh, I think this could be neat actually, but definitely needs a cap. All numbers just a thought to give an example, but: 

Shard maximum per week increase by 100? Up to 200 from 100 

You can only obtain the extra 100/whatever shards via "trading in" caveborn eggs

Eggs trade in for 10-20%? Of market value, so for example 10 shards for a 100 shard common

So you'd need to turn in 5-10 per week to hit the max.

You'd still have to hold the egg for 5 hours though from the cave. 

 

The thing about increasing shards earned per week is it effectively makes the more sought after eggs (golds, staterae, etc) "cheaper." Just bumping shard capacity by 100 per week cuts the amount of time needed to get them by half. Not that this bothers me personally, but it is worth mentioning. I definitely don't think you should be able to get all 800 or even 400 shards for a CB Nebula turn in though, for example. 

 

Alternatively, a "Market Bounty" idea. Complete objectives (similar to raffle style), and get bonus shards. 

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I support this idea and agree it should be at a percentage and that there should be some sort of shard cap on top of the 5 hour 'cooldown'. Also, this system could fit well into the lore of the market; the merchants buy eggs off of others in return for some shards and upsell them in the market to turn a profit; it could also explain why they only accept and sell caveborn eggs.

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Support but yes needs a cap AND I want the eggs that are traded in to count towards the ratios. 

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Tentative support provided that there is indeed some kind of cap, and the details are hashed out in such a way so that cave hunting doesn't turn into shard grinding. The market is very strange, magmas are currently worth 4,700 shards so imagine if I specifically hunted those to trade them in and easily get 2,000+ shards per egg. That would be insane. But trading in a misclick every now and then for a bonus amount of shards sounds interesting. 

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1 hour ago, schenanigans said:

Huh, I think this could be neat actually, but definitely needs a cap. All numbers just a thought to give an example, but: 

Shard maximum per week increase by 100? Up to 200 from 100 

You can only obtain the extra 100/whatever shards via "trading in" caveborn eggs

Eggs trade in for 10-20%? Of market value, so for example 10 shards for a 100 shard common

So you'd need to turn in 5-10 per week to hit the max.

You'd still have to hold the egg for 5 hours though from the cave. 

 

The thing about increasing shards earned per week is it effectively makes the more sought after eggs (golds, staterae, etc) "cheaper." Just bumping shard capacity by 100 per week cuts the amount of time needed to get them by half. 

See I was seeing that as a feature of this idea. But slightly more specifically in terms of always being 100 shards short of them, there's a number of people endlessly chasing a staterae that just goes up 100 every week, this would let them finally get over that.

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3 hours ago, schenanigans said:

 

The thing about increasing shards earned per week is it effectively makes the more sought after eggs (golds, staterae, etc) "cheaper." Just bumping shard capacity by 100 per week cuts the amount of time needed to get them by half. Not that this bothers me personally, but it is worth mentioning. I definitely don't think you should be able to get all 800 or even 400 shards for a CB Nebula turn in though, for example. 

 

 

This is definitely a concern. I mean obviously being able to get 'expensive' breeds faster is a positive in most user's eyes. But given that the Market was originally created with certain "time-lengths" in mind, and given the way that the game in general usually goes and the things that TJ usually does when it comes to huge advantages (like wanting a 'con' or tradeoff), this is definitely something that needs to be considered. IF TJ were open to something like this, effectively increasing our shard-earning rate significantly, would that *also* come with increasing the prices to even things out?  Would we actually want a suggestion like this to be implemented if it required increasing Market prices as well? 

 

I could see some users saying yes, it's worth some unknown price increase if we can get more shards faster. I can also see it completely negating any good the suggestion might do, since it would take even longer to afford those more rare breeds. Of course none of us know exactly what TJ would want in this area, but simply going on DC's history I highly doubt a significant increase in shard-earning would be implemented with no tradeoffs or downsides at all. 

Edited by HeatherMarie

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This could be useful, depending on limitations.

 

Some possible ideas to prevent it from being too easily abused:

 

  • Some sort of total trade-in shard cap
  • Cap shards earned at something like maybe Y% market value or X number, whichever is the lesser.  So, say...  10% or 50 shards, just as random numbers.  If you trade in something worth 100, you get 10 shards.  If you trade in something worth 500, you get 50 shards.  If you trade in something worth 1000, you still only get 50 shards.
    • I don't really think people would trade in super ultra high-value things to get a ton of shards, and depending on what a weekly trade-cap would look like it may be entirely a moot point anyway, but a possible restriction depending on a theoretical trade-cap
    • As an alternative, maybe a flat rate of 10 or less shards per egg.  This would likely make most sense if there were a very low weekly trade-cap.  (Suppose there's, say, a 50 shard/week trade cap.  If you get 5 shards per egg, that's 10 eggs you can trade in per week)
  • Only applicable for CB eggs you picked from the cave yourself.  CB eggs that have hit the AP would not be applicable.  That way it's limited to an alternative to the AP/trading for getting rid of misclicks.  If you misclick from the AP you can just dump it immediately, after all.
    • Require the 5-hour cooldown to apply.  Prevents people from using it to circumvent the timer to rapidly cycle the cave.
  • Possibly count trade-shards towards the weekly cap, especially if the weekly cap were increased.
    • Though having it's own weekly cap would be fine, too, IMO.
    • Maybe a monthly cap?  Something like, say, 200/month rather than a weekly cap.  It wouldn't quite double the number of shards you could obtain in a month, but still net you some extras
    • Alternately, let it be a high cap but shards are ridiculously tiny in payout and require multiple exchanges to get shards.
      • Basically, suppose you get 10 shards for ever 5 eggs you trade in, it would have a counter (that does not reset until you get all 5) that keeps track of how many you've traded in and when you trade in 5 eggs you get your 10 shards.  Or tie it to trophies--if you have a platinum it takes 8 trade-ins to get your shards.  This would essentially be an attempt at a deterrent for people just locking up on stuff they don't care about before they go do something else then coming back and trading them all for shards.
  • No limit or extremely high limit, trade them in for alt shards.  An entirely separate shard counter from your normal one and then give everything in the market a price in standard and alt shards.  Alt shard prices being significantly higher than regular shard prices (but by, like, a % that scales so when the regular price goes up the alt price goes up the same amount.)
    • This one I'd say would probably be the least easily implemented because I can see a lot of confusion coming from the different prices between standard and alt shards.  But figured I'd toss it out there anyway.

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Support as long as the concerns others have voiced would be addressed!

 

What I was thinking though, would this only work for eggs or hatchies as well?  Obviously you can't buy hatchies from the Market, but getting a small amount of extra shards (e.g. +25-50% of the original amount) for hatching and raising a baby could be neat!

Edited by Falorni

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13 hours ago, KageSora said:

This could be useful, depending on limitations.

 

Some possible ideas to prevent it from being too easily abused:

 

  • Some sort of total trade-in shard cap
  • Cap shards earned at something like maybe Y% market value or X number, whichever is the lesser.  So, say...  10% or 50 shards, just as random numbers.  If you trade in something worth 100, you get 10 shards.  If you trade in something worth 500, you get 50 shards.  If you trade in something worth 1000, you still only get 50 shards.
    • I don't really think people would trade in super ultra high-value things to get a ton of shards, and depending on what a weekly trade-cap would look like it may be entirely a moot point anyway, but a possible restriction depending on a theoretical trade-cap
    • As an alternative, maybe a flat rate of 10 or less shards per egg.  This would likely make most sense if there were a very low weekly trade-cap.  (Suppose there's, say, a 50 shard/week trade cap.  If you get 5 shards per egg, that's 10 eggs you can trade in per week)
  • Only applicable for CB eggs you picked from the cave yourself.  CB eggs that have hit the AP would not be applicable.  That way it's limited to an alternative to the AP/trading for getting rid of misclicks.  If you misclick from the AP you can just dump it immediately, after all.
    • Require the 5-hour cooldown to apply.  Prevents people from using it to circumvent the timer to rapidly cycle the cave.
  • Possibly count trade-shards towards the weekly cap, especially if the weekly cap were increased.
    • Though having it's own weekly cap would be fine, too, IMO.
    • Maybe a monthly cap?  Something like, say, 200/month rather than a weekly cap.  It wouldn't quite double the number of shards you could obtain in a month, but still net you some extras
    • Alternately, let it be a high cap but shards are ridiculously tiny in payout and require multiple exchanges to get shards.
      • Basically, suppose you get 10 shards for ever 5 eggs you trade in, it would have a counter (that does not reset until you get all 5) that keeps track of how many you've traded in and when you trade in 5 eggs you get your 10 shards.  Or tie it to trophies--if you have a platinum it takes 8 trade-ins to get your shards.  This would essentially be an attempt at a deterrent for people just locking up on stuff they don't care about before they go do something else then coming back and trading them all for shards.
  • No limit or extremely high limit, trade them in for alt shards.  An entirely separate shard counter from your normal one and then give everything in the market a price in standard and alt shards.  Alt shard prices being significantly higher than regular shard prices (but by, like, a % that scales so when the regular price goes up the alt price goes up the same amount.)
    • This one I'd say would probably be the least easily implemented because I can see a lot of confusion coming from the different prices between standard and alt shards.  But figured I'd toss it out there anyway.

Support for this especially requiring the 5 hours as this does have potential to both help empty the cave of stuff like magnesium or any other breed that is a bit too common while helping with shards. However I do agree this can be very easily abused (aka cycling through the cave or getting a ton of shards with little effort.)

 

I think I like the cb eggs you picked yourself should be applied to any limit, also the cooldown (especially because this would already mean a few less cb dragons hitting the ap and I like finding cb commons in the ap, just hatched an undine)

 

I think I like it's on weekly cap the most as this would reduce the cb dragons going there instead of the ap while still increasing shards. 

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It's a no from me.

 

I do recognize the Shards as a good idea to compensate folks with horrid connections. However I do think it appropriate that we have to save up for rarer stuff. So I think getting 100 shards a week is plenty.

 

And as for this to help with slow drops, I dislike the idea to rig a debated mechanism with a different one. If we feel the concept of Cave Drops being faulty I think this needs to be adressed rather than rigging another mechanism.

 

Besides I like finding CBs in the AP, this would reduce a lot if people just traded those eggs for shards.

 

I do hope my reasoning makes sense even if not everybody agrees. :)

Edited by Nalyua

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Other than being another way to get your shards for the week that doesn't involve playing directly, I really don't see a point to this (as I doubt TJ would increase/allow for extra shards outside of special events)

 

Personally, if you still have to wait the 5 hours to 'discard' the egg for shards, why not just then trade it for a different egg or toss it to the AP for someone else to find?

 

 

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support, and it could act like your selling to a pawn shop of sorts. the "buyers" will only take it at less then 50% store price because they "gotta make their money back on the resale" in the market.

another way to earn shards and make hunting on the pages a bit more lively if you have nothing else to do.

 

or maybe even create "request bounty's" like trading in 3 of XX CB eggs for XX shards this week and then next week will be different. being limited to the extremely commons that tend to clog up the pages.

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On 6/6/2021 at 1:39 PM, Falorni said:

What I was thinking though, would this only work for eggs or hatchies as well?  Obviously you can't buy hatchies from the Market, but getting a small amount of extra shards (e.g. +25-50% of the original amount) for hatching and raising a baby could be neat!

Bumping this bc I still wanna know!  Also really like the idea of weekly "bounties" as an alternate to a full blown return policy system..

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I really really like this idea, but only if it doesn't count towards the 100 shards a week. It would make rare eggs much more attainable with a bit of hard work for those of us with slow internet XD or that numbers raised, maybe to 200 or 300?

 

It may also give people an incentive to take the eggs from the cave that nobody really wants and just sit there till the cave refresh...

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On 6/10/2021 at 7:36 AM, Nalyua said:

Besides I like finding CBs in the AP, this would reduce a lot if people just traded those eggs for shards.

 

This factor alone would severely change the game for many players.  It takes a good amount of time and patience to hunt in the AP, especially if you specialize in collecting CBs. Doing anything to make the already scarce eggs even harder to find might make it impossible for some players to stalk and catch these eggs. This would, of course, devastate their playing style.   So, since I like to collect CBs too, no support here. 

Edited by Stormcaller

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Again, this is not intended for AP eggs because it would ruin the hunt there. This is only for those eggs we misclick in the Cave.

 

Eggs from the AP, gifts or trades would not be eligible. It would not apply to any hatchlings.

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14 minutes ago, dragongrrl said:

Again, this is not intended for AP eggs because it would ruin the hunt there. This is only for those eggs we misclick in the Cave.

 

Eggs from the AP, gifts or trades would not be eligible. It would not apply to any hatchlings.

 

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.  Now, if someone misclicks on an egg they don't want to raise, they will most likely abandon it to the AP once the waiting period is over. In due course it will then be picked up and raised by someone else.  If these misclicked eggs are sold off, instead of being sent to the AP,  it will create a shortage of CB eggs  in the AP and thus deprive CB collectors of the opportunity they now have to stalk and capture lower time CB eggs. 

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5 minutes ago, Stormcaller said:

 

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.  Now, if someone misclicks on an egg they don't want to raise, they will most likely abandon it to the AP once the waiting period is over. In due course it will then be picked up and raised by someone else.  If these misclicked eggs are sold off, instead of being sent to the AP,  it will create a shortage of CB eggs  in the AP and thus deprive CB collectors of the opportunity they now have to stalk and capture lower time CB eggs. 

 

Definitely a serious concern. Take the pink Sapphires, you can *only* get those through the AP, if people could earn shards for turning in CB Sapphs it would be even harder than it already is to find them in the AP. Even not counting them, a lot of people hunt the AP for lower-timed CBs. Back when the long thread about AP-walls was going on there were a *ton* of posts about how walls made it harder and less likely to find CBs in the AP. 

 

I do like KageSora's idea of a monthly cap, if this were to happen (and a rather low one). If this doesn't count towards the 100-weekly limit, *but* there was a monthly trade-in limit of 200, that would drastically limit abuse and hoarding.

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7 hours ago, dragongrrl said:

Again, this is not intended for AP eggs because it would ruin the hunt there. This is only for those eggs we misclick in the Cave.

 

Eggs from the AP, gifts or trades would not be eligible. It would not apply to any hatchlings.

 

My point exactly.

 

Those misclicks would normally just end in the AP after the 5 hours.

 

Or where did you think the CB eggs from the AP originally came from?

 

I doubt the majority comes from anything else but misclicks. Yes there might be people who willingly drop stuff yadayadayada, but I would think that this is a very small minority of those eggs.

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7 hours ago, Stormcaller said:

 

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.  Now, if someone misclicks on an egg they don't want to raise, they will most likely abandon it to the AP once the waiting period is over. In due course it will then be picked up and raised by someone else.  If these misclicked eggs are sold off, instead of being sent to the AP,  it will create a shortage of CB eggs  in the AP and thus deprive CB collectors of the opportunity they now have to stalk and capture lower time CB eggs. 

This is one reason why, out of my own suggestions on how it could theoretically be implemented, I'd lean most heavily towards having a relatively easily reached weekly/monthly cap.  If somebody only can trade in 5 eggs a week for shards, for example, that may or may not do much about the eggs in the AP.  It'd likely depend on if the amount of eggs per week you can trade in outstrips the average number of CBs players who grab-and-toss dump into the AP.

 

Too high a limit and it would decimate AP hunting for CBs, but there's not really too low a limit for this (as we're already effectively at the lowest limit by not having this in place).  So erring on the side of caution and making it a fairly low limit that could potentially be raised if it wasn't doing much to the AP would be better, if something like this were added.

 

Or, and here's another pair of possibilities:

  • Eggs traded in at the market get placed in the AP.
  • Cut the middle action out and just award shards for dumping eggs to the AP

Either of those could be worked with for the other restrictions I proposed, I imagine, and that would hopefully help eliminate the issue of CBs becoming much harder to obtain in the AP.

 

The benefit of "Award shards for AP dumping" is that it's a simple across the board way of gaining more shards, though it wouldn't be in the spirit of the original idea to allow an exchange for a misclick.

 

The benefit of "eggs turned into the marketplace go to the AP" is that it would possibly make it easier to implement a secondary shard limit system that offers different amounts/has a different limit (such as a limit for shards obtained only from exchanging eggs via the marketplace) from the perspective of user interface and ease of understanding for players.

 

Here's one other idea, as well. though one I think is most easily abused (and also doesn't solve the issue of lowering CBs in the AP) therefore unlikely to be considered but I'll present it all the same:

  • If the idea is to exchange a misclick, offer the ability to swap your egg with another egg from the marketplace that's valued the same or less shards.  Or, if that's too easily abused, a % of the shards it's valued at.  This would make it worthless to trade in an egg worth the lowest amount of shards, but if you had an egg worth, say, 800 shards and it were at 50% value you could swap it for any breed that was valued at 400 or less shards.
    • Only permitting a 1:1 exchange in terms of one egg for one egg, even if say you traded an 800 shard egg for a 200 shard egg, you wouldn't get the extra 200 shards as a credit nor would you be able to get 2 of the 200 shard eggs to get to the 400 limit.
    • Could be done at a pair of values--basically anything with a low enough value as to be unable to meet a % limit would be swappable for another egg of the lowest current cost, while anything high enough to meet the % limit you'd be able to swap with something at or below whatever it's limit is
      • Assume a 50% limit for this, just as an example since it's a nice number to work with
      • Assume 100 remains the lowest value for an egg
      • Assume eggs in the market remain at 100-shard increments (so no introduction of 150 shard eggs or something)
        • Any egg valued at 200 shards or less for purchase would be exchangeable for an egg valued at 100 shards.  (This would allow people to exchange 100 shard eggs for different 100 shard eggs)
        • Any egg valued at 400 or more would be exchangeable for any egg valued at 200 shards or less
    • This would absolutely necessitate a hard limit on the number of eggs you can trade per given length of time, ideally a significantly low number.
      • A low weekly or monthly limit, say, 3 eggs a week or maybe 5 eggs a month or something.
Edited by KageSora

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How many people have more than 5 misclicks a week? 🤔

 

I have maybe 1-2 a month....

 

Directing those traded in eggs to the AP or recieving Shards for dropping CB eggs (to some extent) would be a support from me. The rest? Nope.

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MANY of us do, when looking for rares and just missing them.

 

Just saying ! I don't in any way support this one. If you have an unwanted egg - put it up for trade; drop it in the community noticeboard or whatever.

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1 hour ago, Nalyua said:

How many people have more than 5 misclicks a week? 🤔

 

I have maybe 1-2 a month....

 

Directing those traded in eggs to the AP or recieving Shards for dropping CB eggs (to some extent) would be a support from me. The rest? Nope.

I do!  I've not got the best memory when it comes to egg descriptions and keep ending up with similar-sounding descriptions but that aren't the egg I want.  If I'm hunting actively I can easily get 5+ in just a few days.

 

Though I also suggested strict limitations because we all know people would use it for things other than misclicks as well.

 

I'm not convinced this is the best idea in general, but it's not automatically terrible, either.  It has potential for consideration if it were carefully limited and balanced to make sure it doesn't screw things up--and not messing badly with the existence of CBs in the AP would be something important to consider.

 

That said, I'm not entirely convinced--should the limit be low enough--this would wipe out CBs in the AP, even if the eggs were basically deleted rather than a system that basically rewards you for abandoning the eggs.  For myself, I currently dump plenty of CBs into the AP.  Mind you, they're usually blockers or otherer common stuff but I dump 'em.  If there were a limit of, say, 10 monthly CB trades I could make that wouldn't honestly make an appreciable difference in what I dump to the AP.  When I'm actively hunting the cave I tend to load up on 7 eggs at a time that I don't care about before bed, hoping to find something I do want, then dump them all to the AP come morning, rinse and repeat.  Suppose I could trade 10 of those, that'd only be a little over one grab-and-dump and if I'm actively hunting I can do those nightly.  I imagine there's other people who do the same, too.

 

I don't think most of us would suddenly stop dumping the excess in the AP once we hit our trade-in limit should something like this be implemented unless that limit was ridiculously high--which is why I'd favor a limit that would in effect restrict the number of eggs you can trade in.

 

(Also just as a note--any numbers I throw out were not meant as hard numbers for limitations, they were just numbers that I found easy to work with, actual limitations would need more consideration than just "this is a number I can plug in real quick for an example")

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