How do you keep track/plan out lineages?

[High Lord November]

I've never really cared too much about lineages. A lot of my long lineages are inbred because I find it too difficult to keep track of dragon codes and who needs to be bred to who, and who has what lineage.

 

With all the different Cantormaris and the new Gemshards, I would really like to make some nice lineages with the different colours, but the thought of individually checking and rechecking each dragon to make sure I'm breeding right is overwhelming. 

 

So I was wondering, how do you keep track of lineages and plan them out? Wouldn't a spreadsheet just run out of room depending on how large the lineage gets? Any tips, tricks, and best practices you can share?

 

Thanks!

[Seriva Senkalora]

I use a simple ms excel sheet.

Male, female and a column for notes like "breed on thursday" or "breed between the 15th and 20th" or something like that.

 

Works very well for me.

 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Seriva Senkalora

[Tini]

Well I just gotta throw out heart of blue for the planning https://heart-of.blue/dragcave/lineage

 

Because I generally save a version with and without  the dragons, and number the empty version, technically most useful for lyricals but still good for others. If I had access to a printer I'd print it out, alas. 

 

However I'm pretty proud of the way I use sheets, which is like this.

Spoiler

The S and A are the column which is shorthand for breeds, the next one is the numbers in terms of said lineage plan, the code is the big one, and then the last one tells me what gen things are. Mostly helpful for placing CBs in confusing lines like this one. Off to the side you see numberXnumber=number and that's telling me the list of things I need to do next so I don't have to pull open the numbered lineage every time. This one's not the best example cause its a rare/common pair so the CBs aren't filled in since I'm just getting the rare 2gs first.

 

 

Or a cleaner example

 

Spoiler

This is a pb line (sans codes), so I got rid of the first column, and pairings over on the right are lined up with where the kid goes, green meaning I've got them. The blue and pink means that when I breed something and plug it in, I know which way to influence it. This is actually a separate page from the CBs, as you can tell by the lineage count. But that was just because I'm doing Dumb Things with the CBs lol so I had them spread out on two sheets for my convenience. 

 

 

Or for a third more chaotic example,

 

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This one is nearly done but i got rid of the codes for this. You can see just how chaotic this is but using the sheets really helped me. The green row here really shows the Confusion in this line lol but that was when I started listing them out like that and oh boy was it helpful. (9x10 ratioed me hard lol) This was my first time using sheets for a lineage actually, and I'm really happy with how my method turned out in the end thanks to this.

 

 

If you instead ended on an even number the next column wouldn't be different colors but I kinda like it that way anyway so. 33 is just what fit nicely on my screen, completely arbitrary cutoff point for the next column.

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Tini

[Chaosdawn]

I use google sheets cuz I like it to be visual, then once done I have a list of the ones I want to breed for the AR and when I can breed them again. 

Oh and I link the females so I can get to them easily for breeding. I also note when they've been fertilized and when they can breed. 

 

Regular even/checker

 

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Spiral

 

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Edited June 4, 2021 by Chaosdawn

[igloo9201]

This is such a cool idea for a thread!! Other people are sensible and use spreadsheets, but I just use a gigantic Google document to plan out my Nhiostrife even-gen.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1t3LKrBX6QArSIcz0s4EYTK6vBQegObuMQuanB7nkSuo/view

 

I list each individual pair because it helps my brain make sense of things, AND I mass-breed my Nhios every now and then, so this makes that very easy. This is just how I like to keep my records. At the bottom I list singles from each generation so it’s really easy to go through and pair dragons when I have room for more eggs! Don’t worry, I’m not obsessed!!!! I can stop whenever I want! I don’t need an intervention!

[PonyTales]

I use a google sheets for my 12th even gen, pb pink lineage  I could clean it up for sharing if anyone wants

 

Here's how it looks like filled and partially filled:

 

 

[igloo9201]

For those of you who use spreadsheets - how do you keep track of your singles? How do you keep track of the CBs you have that have yet to be paired? Do you keep track of offspring by putting them into their place in the sheet right away? The spreadsheets visually look really organized but the maintenance confuses me

[BringsTheSnow]

My only real lineage that I care about was planned out in pen (like an idiot) in a notebook. I do not recommend the pen and paper method, just for reference. Matched up dragons by code and lineage when they were bred and influenced, then filled in their name once they had been named. Getting a refusal from a mated pair resulted in scribbling out the info and writing the new dragon's info in tiny print above the scribble. Lol.

 

I have yet to transfer it to a digital format...

 

This is page 1 (males from pairs 1-15) and page 2 (females from pairs 1-15). Progeny of each mated pair is listed on the line below.

 

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by BringsTheSnow

[purplehaze]

5 hours ago, igloo9201 said:

For those of you who use spreadsheets - how do you keep track of your singles? How do you keep track of the CBs you have that have yet to be paired? Do you keep track of offspring by putting them into their place in the sheet right away? The spreadsheets visually look really organized but the maintenance confuses me

I enter all CBs as soon as I get them. If they are unpaired I just leave a space for the mate. I also enter offspring as soon as they are bred. Things are a lot easier with influence -- pre-influence I would wait until they were gendered.

 

@BringsTheSnow I draw my smaller ones (5G or less) out on paper. I draw out the diagram and fill in names and codes. Actually that is how I am handling my Split lineage. It is a multi-page mess at this point, but it would be too hard to go back and redo it on a spreadsheet now. I do 6 gens per page, then when I finish a page I add the 6th gen dragon to the right-hand column of a new page that will take me up to gen 11 (I currently have 1 10G).

Spoiler

Sorry for bad picture, but it sort of shows how I do it.

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by purplehaze

[igloo9201]

14 minutes ago, purplehaze said:

I enter all CBs as soon as I get them. If they are unpaired I just leave a space for the mate. I also enter offspring as soon as they are bred. Things are a lot easier with influence -- pre-influence I would wait until they were gendered.

 

That's really interesting, thank you!! I may start using this system for checkers and even-gens that I don't care about saving the pairs for.

[Syiren]

Normally, I sort my dragons in groups like this: https://dragcave.net/group/69399

 

But I also know people use a feature on allure of neglected dragon that tells you if a pair will make a clean lineage of if they have any relatives to help prevent inbreeding.

https://www.allureofnds.net/NDER/Lineage - Lineage checker

https://www.allureofnds.net/NDER/Inbred - Inbred checker

 

I hope that helps 

[Tini]

10 hours ago, igloo9201 said:

For those of you who use spreadsheets - how do you keep track of your singles? How do you keep track of the CBs you have that have yet to be paired?

I specifically have groups for the lineages so as I get CBs I just toss them in there (I have a separate group for higher gens). After that its just a numbers game, count my silvers for the millionth time and find out I still only have 8 of 18 needed. I usually don't even start breeding anything until I have all the CBs I need, the rare/common pair is the outlier because getting silvers from a common was always going to be a fight so that line I've been breeding weekly for as many silvers as I have, doing that until I get all the 2g silvers, and then the mates will be made and then there will be no shuffling.

 

But for the pb line I spent a solid year picking up the 64 cbs, putting them in the sheet as acquired, and only bred a few 2gs before getting all the CBs. Once again I've gotta say, number everything. Knowing 3 and 10 go together to make 26 or whatever is really helpful. Knowing that 13x14 are refusing to give me a kid is helpful but annoying knowledge.

 

For example this is what the oldest fill looks like for my Complicated line

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You can see a couple 2g floating around, I think I started breeding upon grabbing the final CBs I needed.

 

 

The other thing I do is I have things look different in the sheet when I have something to do with them. For example you can see I needed gemshards for that line, so I had a spot off to the side where I'd put the intended number (idk 64) and link the child next to it so that if it was blue, I could easily put it where it was supposed to be.

 

Couple more examples of that kind of stuff.

 

Spoiler

43 and 44 are things currently growing on my scroll, after they're adults and in the group I change it to the code. Just in case I toss them or something else happens to them they're not mismarked as complete.

 

This is the previous line, which is 2 correct kids from completion, so I have 85 (the current male im breeding) visually different so when its ready to breed I just find the one thats different and open it and cry in dismay as it is still not a dorsal.

 

10 hours ago, igloo9201 said:

Do you keep track of offspring by putting them into their place in the sheet right away? The spreadsheets visually look really organized but the maintenance confuses me

 

Yeah I don't even breed my lineages without having the sheet open, they're all links so I click the code for 13, breed, if the right egg is generated I immediately copy the link into the slot the kid goes, which also tells me which way I influence it which I also do immediately. Then I just proceed as normal with fresh eggs.

[BringsTheSnow]

@purplehaze Yeah, planning on paper was okay for me until I hit 4th generation. By then I was spanning 5 notbook pages as well as my list of future possible names. I kept wishing I could reorganize everything and then on top of that had multiple 4th gen dragons in a row refuse the mates I had bred. Too much frustration and confusion at once and the paper format was just making shuffling the mating pairs more annoying. It was my fault. I did it to myself. A problem of my own design. 

 

@igloo9201 All dragons get added to my spreadsheet as I breed/catch them, especially offspring. Mostly this helps me figure out how to influence the eggs, which is especially important when there are multiple eggs and ungendered hatchies on my scroll at once. 

 

The inbreeding and lineage tools that @Syiren mentioned from AoND are especially usefull if you get a dragon that was bred by someone else and are checking if it is okay to add to your existing lineage project. I have used those a lot over the years.

[PonyTales]

23 hours ago, igloo9201 said:

For those of you who use spreadsheets - how do you keep track of your singles? How do you keep track of the CBs you have that have yet to be paired? Do you keep track of offspring by putting them into their place in the sheet right away? The spreadsheets visually look really organized but the maintenance confuses me

 

I just give them generic names until they've been bred and given their "proper" lineage name. I then mark them as "filled" in the spreadsheet. I don't keep track of individual codes

[sorenna]

A couple of different ways.

 

For all my holiday lineages, I keep a spreadsheet.  It lists the generation of each holiday member, lineage link, mate's name + code, and their offspring's name (and whether it's a holiday or nonholiday).  This makes it easy to see instantly what I'm missing ("Oh, look at this gap in the spreadsheet where I have a 3G holiday but no mate - I need to trade for one"), what I've already bred ("these three pairs have an offspring listed, but this one doesn't"), and what I want to do in future (for brand-new holidays, I'll breed mates to put in the spreadsheet so I remember what combinations I want when holiday breeding rolls around next year).  Sometimes I'll even make notes next to the name, like "BREED 2021" or "NEED SWAP 2022" so that when the holiday hits I won't forget my top priorities.

 

For non-holiday lineages I usually create a group.  Here's an example of a completed lineage.  I use some of my scoll divider hatchies to separate the generations, and I re-sort the dragons as needed to keep breeding pairs together so it's easier to see who's bred.  (If a pair refuses and I have to switch mates, I re-sort to put them by their new mates.) 

 

You'll note that the complete group starts with 2Gs; that's because some of the 2Gs were not bred by me.  I'll put the CB base dragons in the group if they're all mine, but I don't include the CBs if I don't own all of them because the count would throw me off; I'd be constantly thinking I was short of CBs.   Sometimes the group even inlcudes dragons that won't be in the lineage as placeholders.  This group is in the starting stages, so I added all my starting CB Winter x Nebula pairs at the top (so it's easier to find them to breed them and remember the right mate).  Below them are their Spring & Nebula offspring.  But below that I just have a couple of random Seasonals and Nebulas to remind me what color/season I need to influence 3G and 4G future offspring.  I'll remove them from the group once I start breeding that generation for real.  (No scroll divider hatchies in this one, because the color change is enough of a cue.)

 

 

On 6/6/2021 at 11:08 AM, igloo9201 said:

For those of you who use spreadsheets - how do you keep track of your singles? How do you keep track of the CBs you have that have yet to be paired? Do you keep track of offspring by putting them into their place in the sheet right away? The spreadsheets visually look really organized but the maintenance confuses me

 

Can't answer the question about CBs, but here's a screenshot showing some lines of my holiday lineage spreadsheet:

 

(Sorry, the headers got cut off! They're Holiday | Gen | Name | Lineage | Mate? | Mate (name+code) | Lineage type | 2nd breed | Offspring. )

 

 

I find it really easy to see what I'm missing, because of the visual gaps in the spreadsheet!  And it's easy to tell whether I'm missing a Holiday or a non-Holiday, depending on what column has the gap.  It's also easy to see which pairs I've already bred and which are waiting, by looking for gaps in the Offspring column, and see whether I need a Hol or non-Hol pair from an unbred couple. 

 

I can easily check whether something is descended from my dragons before breeding mates, because the lineage link (or code to plug into lineage link) is right there.  Plus, knowing mate's name means I can just CTRL+F when breeding to find the right dragon instantly; no scrolling.     As soon as an egg is produced, I put its code in the appropriate slot.  When it grows up, I'll add its name/link/etc., but the code makes a good placeholder that can be easily deleted if something goes wrong (misgenders, accidentally abandoned, etc.), and stands out visually as a "hey, something's in progress here" signal. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by sorenna

[daaHamster]

this is late but I haven't seen anyone mention this so i recommend using family echo ! i'm just about to start my own lineage and plan to use that site. i've also used it for past roleplaying projects to keep track of family trees of different characters because it's easy to check who's who and you can also add photos onto each person (or dragon).

[Ytak]

I like to group the dragons I'm going to breed together on my scroll.  I'll use frozen hatchies to name the group at the "top" of each grouping.  Though I know it is horribly unorganized, I'll go ahead and write out planned breedings in my notebook.  I also have an ability to keep my dragon stuff organized in my head.  And, if I have a really long lineage with a great many dragons, I use this to pair two potential mates (selecting the box to show inbreeding).  And, if I just want to test the lineage of a dragon, I use this to check for inbreeding.