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Velvetie

Sapphire Dragon mechanism change

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Hello! I've been thinking about this ever since we learnt how to produce the Yellow and Pink Sapphires, but wanted to wait until the dragons grew up to post this.

 

The new Sapphire variants are absolutely gorgeous :wub: However I think it is a bit hard and complicated to collect them. Before I start I want to mention that this is in NO way said with bad intentions and I do not want to hurt anyone, especially the artists involved and the person who thought out this mechanism.

 

Let's see how the Sapphire Dragon mechanism works first. All eggs are blue initially.. no matter where you obtain them from (the cave, the market or bred). In order to turn an egg Yellow, you need 4,000 overall views on the said dragon. To obtain a Pink one, you will need to catch a Sapphire egg in the AP after it has been abandoned (not auto'd).Now let's take each variant and analyze the advantages and disadvantages.

 

YELLOW SAPPHIRE

 

Yellow Sapphires are relatively easy to get - mainly because it does not matter what stage your dragon is (egg, hatchling, gendered hatchling), it will still turn Yellow as long as it hits 4,000 overall views. Fortunately, Pink Sapphires do not turn Yellow. It's only the Blue variant that does. The main issue there might be with this mechanic is that the dragon can change colors even AFTER it hatched.. which makes it way easier to get this variant and makes it a bit harder to grow a Blue Sapphire!

 

There is not much to fix here.. just consider making it possible to turn a Sapphire yellow ONLY while in an egg stage.. it is relatively easy to get 4,000 views as you can put the egg in multiple hatcheries and click sites.. and many of these click sites offer services where you can add only ONE code so you don't have to get your entire scroll read there.

 

An alternative would be raising the number of views needed to turn a Sapphire yellow.. but honestly the first option just sounds like a better compromise. In this way you will be able to decide what color you want your Sapphire to be and you won't need to watch over it too often once it hatches in fear of it turning Yellow.

 

PINK SAPPHIRE 

 

The Pink Sapphire just sounds like it would theoretically be the hardest to obtain out of the three colors... but with the way things are right now I really believe the Blue Sapphire requires the most care to obtain... you cannot get them anymore from the AP and you have to constantly keep count of their view count. The biggest downside of the way this dragon is obtain is honestly lineage building - you would need to do a lot of AP hunting and I feel like this method of obtaining an alt would also encourage people to look for specific eggs that they do not own... which I don't think should be the case.

 

For this Sapphire variant, I simply suggest that instead of having eggs turn Pink upon abandoning only, you could possibly have an egg turn Pink if you neglected it.. now when I say to neglect, I don't mean to the same lengths you would do it to a future Neglected Dragon egg.. simply have it have under 10 (? number could change though) overall views by the time it is past the time for hatching (so basically 10> OVs by the time it hits 3d23h.. or a lower time, should be up to the creators of the dragon). This would still make sense lore-wise.. as the Pink Sapphire is supposed to be a result of loneliness, right? Not giving it much attention, keeping the egg hidden would basically mean you isolate it from the rest and have it live in loneliness. This would highly benefit us players as Pink Sapphire lineages would be easier to build.

 

What do you think? I am posting this from the perspective of a player and dragon collector and offer alternatives to the current mechanisms... my intention is not to have them changed right away, but would love to hear what the creators of the Sapphire Dragon make of the situation, hear other point of views of other players and hopefully we can reach an agreement :D

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I support the Pink Sapphire suggestion ~ having it hidden and not giving it attention until it reaches less than 2 days or so like with Siyat colors ~

 

This mechanic right now makes me rely on other players and I hate to do that. I want to be able to obtain everything on my own and this release will force me into trading again and I don't have as much time as I used to have in the past for this game and to sit in game for hours becuase 1 new egg per every 2nd-3rd 5min refresh appears and there are hundreds people camping -.-

 

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I support the Pink sapphire suggestion as well, although who knows - it may be like that even now, just noone has yet discovered it :)

And about yellow sapphire - I think it has been done this way because massive percent of users won't be able to turn it yellow while it's an egg. Perhaps a lot of people do not visit the forums and do not know about hatching sites. To keep a sapphire blue one just have to keep it "low view" while an egg, than "ER" it, then fog it and in the end "ER" it again. It's a bit complicated but I believe users can get used to it.

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Posted (edited)

I do NOT mind the current way we have of obtaining any of the Sapphire dragons, but if you are looking for a change for the Pink Sapphire, may I suggest to actually take advantage of an otherwhise not used mechanic? the Sickness. So far there is no real purpose for egg and hatchlings sickness besides making us taking the effort to put growing things in hatcheries only at 6 days left or less.

If a sapphire egg would turn pink once he's been sick-cured 3 times as an egg and/or 3 times as an hatchie it would still be coherent with the lore (a sick, frail dragon that was neglected) and it would actually combo with yellow sapphire quite well. It is intended so people don't just randomly put sapphire eggs in 150 hatchieres to get the yellow, they actually have to put care to not make it sick, cure it, make it sick again... otherwise it turns it into undesired result.

Having pink and yellow both require a massive amount of views keeps the regular sapphire safe from their mechanics as they have a similar yet different way of obtaining them.

 

another suggestion for pink sapphire is that in order to obtain them (no matter the number of views) they have to spend something like 80% of their time fogged while growing. easy fix: lonely egg, remains in your scroll, you have to remember about it to or you get a green egg like this EX-blue Sapphire

Edited by Naruhina_94

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I am in for changing the mechanic for pink sapphire, mostly because it would make getting a CB one not a "pick a god and pray" luck fest

 

Not to mention the current mechanic encourages massbreeding and i am not sure if i like that being encouraged even with the recent AP changes

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I love the new Sapphire sprites. I can't wait to collect them.

 

The yellow sprite seems easy enough to control. 4K+ views are easy to obtain if you want yellow, and it only takes a little extra attention to fog the egg/hatchling before it gets that many if you want blue.

 

I think it would be nice if we could tweak the mechanic for the pink. If I just want to have the pink sprites on my scroll that won't be difficult. They're a hot commodity right now, but once the first rush passes it will be easy to hunt the AP or trade for them.

 

The problem I forsee is using them for lineages. I've already thought of some pretty lineage ideas for them, but I won't be able to do that if I can't keep anything I've bred. The best I could do would be to do the breeding I want, abandon it to turn it pink, and then rename the parents asking for whoever picks it up to return it to me. That relies on the person picking it up to A) be on the forum and B ) be willing to give or trade it back. If I have to jump through such hoops I probably won't use them for lineages at all, which would be a shame considering how nice they look.

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I don't personally see a need for changing the method for gaining Yellows, aside from maybe making it so they only transform as eggs.

 

Pinks, however, I can't see as anything but a complete pain to get. I would love it if we had an alternate mechanic, such as like someone else suggested, letting them get down to 2 days without hatching. 

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I'd definitely like to see the Pink mechanism change.  I can't see me getting one for a long time with the way it is now. 

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If there isn't already, I definitely would like other ways than abandoning for getting the pink variant.

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Support for both! For the yellows I am more in favor of the former option than the latter, but either would be a better option compared to what we have now.

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Posted (edited)

I support this, the yellow is mostly fine but the pink was not that well thought out. There's nothing wrong with normal rare dragons but pink sapphires are a combination random chance and relying on the other players to do an action that is zero benefit to them, it's really not that solid of a system.  It also doesn't make any sense that we can't just neglect them ourselves anyway, since they're being deprived regardless of who does or doesn't own them.

Edited by blockEdragon

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Honestly, the abandoning mechanic for sapphires is pretty busted isn't it? Can't believe that getting a blue sapphire dragon might have ever been a problem, but here we are.

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Total support for changing the mechanic of obtaining a pink sapphire. Making a neglected dragon would be far easier, because as it stands now it is purely luck at the right time.

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While I personally don't think any of it is likely to change, I think it's interesting that people are so focused on the abandon issue with the pinks. I actually think this new mechanic makes the original blues the hardest to get and would love to see that part tweaked a bit. So far our knowledge is that blues turn to yellow above 4k views, *and* they can change even as a hatchling. The vast majority of my adults in the past year are over 5k views, eggs alone often get close to 4k especially if the unique views are a bit low. I'm looking in hatcheries and it seems pretty clear that 4k is a pretty low threshold. And the fact blues can turn yellow even after hatching makes it all the more difficult. I'd love to see it changed so that they won't turn after hatching, or even just increase the threshold. 

 

The pinks... That's a delicate issue imo. It's a very different mechanic to anything we've ever had and for that reason alone I doubt it will change, but I 100% understand the issues around it and would support a change

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3 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

While I personally don't think any of it is likely to change, I think it's interesting that people are so focused on the abandon issue with the pinks. I actually think this new mechanic makes the original blues the hardest to get and would love to see that part tweaked a bit. So far our knowledge is that blues turn to yellow above 4k views, *and* they can change even as a hatchling. The vast majority of my adults in the past year are over 5k views, eggs alone often get close to 4k especially if the unique views are a bit low. I'm looking in hatcheries and it seems pretty clear that 4k is a pretty low threshold. And the fact blues can turn yellow even after hatching makes it all the more difficult. I'd love to see it changed so that they won't turn after hatching, or even just increase the threshold. 

 

The pinks... That's a delicate issue imo. It's a very different mechanic to anything we've ever had and for that reason alone I doubt it will change, but I 100% understand the issues around it and would support a change

Yeah the blues have become the super rare. We really need an edit that either only lets eggs turn, or ups the view threshold. 

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I think the Yellow/Blue situation is workable as-is, but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to tweaking the exact numbers having looked at the views on the adults on my scroll - I had to go specifically looking for Siyats to find one under 4k, and even those are mostly over.

 

I would love an alternative mechanism for generating Pinks - as is, it's basically impossible to build a specific lineage of your choice with them without relying on a) being present in forums/discord and b) the kindness (and forum/discord presence and sociability!) of whoever manages to catch it. Something like having fewer than 10 views 48 hours after it was laid/caught would make sense to me. If we keep the abandonment mechanism as the primary approach it would be nice to have a way to turn Pink -> Blue too, but I don't see that as critical, there are plenty of breeds you can't expect to find CB in AP.

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7 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

While I personally don't think any of it is likely to change, I think it's interesting that people are so focused on the abandon issue with the pinks. I actually think this new mechanic makes the original blues the hardest to get and would love to see that part tweaked a bit. So far our knowledge is that blues turn to yellow above 4k views, *and* they can change even as a hatchling. The vast majority of my adults in the past year are over 5k views, eggs alone often get close to 4k especially if the unique views are a bit low. I'm looking in hatcheries and it seems pretty clear that 4k is a pretty low threshold. And the fact blues can turn yellow even after hatching makes it all the more difficult. I'd love to see it changed so that they won't turn after hatching, or even just increase the threshold. 

I've had blue Siyats grow up with less than that. So, just keep them a little longer? Either way, at least these are obtainable all by yourself, and you're NOT at the mercy of someone else. Someone random who may not even be contactable through the same means as you.

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I can live with the yellows - it'es easy enough to control views. But lineages with the pinks will be impossible - UNLESS they breed true... The other issue with the pinks is that clearly (trawls AP) others think particular dragons look good with them while I disagree, and would ideally like PB.

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I agree that hatchlings shouldn't change, since that's how pretty much every other breed on DC works. Remember when canto hatchies would change colour after hatching? That was stated to be a bug and was quickly fixed. Sapphire hatchlings changing also feels like a bug to me. I'm surprised that it's intentional behaviour.

 

 Neutral towards the pinks. I don't mind the abandon mechanic that much, but wouldn't be sad to see it changed.

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On 5/24/2021 at 10:21 AM, Velvetie said:

The main issue there might be with this mechanic is that the dragon can change colors even AFTER it hatched.. which makes it way easier to get this variant and makes it a bit harder to grow a Blue Sapphire!

I really like that they can change as hatchlings, so no support for changing that. Trying to get them over 4000 views as an egg is much, much more likely to cause sickness and death.

It is easier to watch the number of views on your egg/hatchling that you want blue and fog it appropriately to keep it from going over 4000. It is very possible.

I currently have 2 eggs that I want to be yellow. They are at 4d 5h with huge holes and only have about 1700 views.  So I could fog them until they are ready to hatch, hatch them and fog again until they are nearly ready to grow up, if I wanted blue.

 

I am not at all happy about the mechanics of getting the pink ones unless there is another way that we don't know about, yet. It would have made more sense to me to have that variant also be view dependent.

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6 minutes ago, purplehaze said:

I really like that they can change as hatchlings, so no support for changing that. Trying to get them over 4000 views as an egg is much, much more likely to cause sickness and death.

It is easier to watch the number of views on your egg/hatchling that you want blue and fog it appropriately to keep it from going over 4000. It is very possible.

I currently have 2 eggs that I want to be yellow. They are at 4d 5h with huge holes and only have about 1700 views.  So I could fog them until they are ready to hatch, hatch them and fog again until they are nearly ready to grow up, if I wanted blue.

 

I am not at all happy about the mechanics of getting the pink ones unless there is another way that we don't know about, yet. It would have made more sense to me to have that variant also be view dependent.

 

I think for the yellow one there are 2 sides people are on - and one of them will have to adapt to a change (whether things stay as they are or Yellow Sapphires turn only as eggs). I have no problem getting eggs to 4,000 OV views if needed. Sapphires aren't a stubborn breed either which makes it more easier. I have a few hatchlings that are a few hours old to prove it 1 and 2. All this without getting them sick.

 

My suggestion on the Yellow Sapphires was made because of how I play the game. It's not a necessity, there is no doubt about this, but at the same time I wanted to see how many people agree or think the same as me. I would have no problem if the yellow ones stay the same as long as we get a tweak on the Pink ones

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Posted (edited)

Not commenting on the pink mechanic because I'm indifferent, but I actually asked Infinis about the yellows because with the current threshold the mechanic seemed... off, and here's the response:

 

image.png.e760b3050063b57b35194dc6807f8dc2.png

 

So basically, hatchies turning is intentional, but the ~4k views threshold is much lower than was intended by the artists and something TJ seems to have implemented/changed himself (which unfortunately makes me feel like that is unlikely to be tweaked further :--/)

Edited by Falorni

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32 minutes ago, Falorni said:

Not commenting on the pink mechanic because I'm indifferent, but I actually asked Infinis about the yellows because with the current threshold the mechanic seemed... off, and here's the response:

 

image.png.e760b3050063b57b35194dc6807f8dc2.png

 

So basically, hatchies turning is intentional, but the ~4k views threshold is much lower than was intended by the artists and something TJ seems to have implemented/changed himself (which unfortunately makes me feel like that is unlikely to be tweaked further :--/)

 

I see. 8,000 OVs seemed a waaay better option.. you could grow Blue Sapphire comfortably and wouldn't have to stress too much about them turning Yellow :( hopefully we can get a tweak on the Pink ones at the very least because with the things we know right now it is very difficult to do anything with them...

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Well. Knowing the hatchie-changing was intentional but the low-threshold was not intentional by the spriter is... Makes it even less likely to be changed, I guess. Frustrating for sure. I definitely would've liked a higher threshold! 

 

1 hour ago, Velvetie said:

 

I think for the yellow one there are 2 sides people are on - and one of them will have to adapt to a change (whether things stay as they are or Yellow Sapphires turn only as eggs). I have no problem getting eggs to 4,000 OV views if needed. Sapphires aren't a stubborn breed either which makes it more easier. I have a few hatchlings that are a few hours old to prove it 1 and 2. All this without getting them sick.

 

 

Agree here. What stats your eggs normally get is very very dependent on how you normally play, ie when you put your eggs in hatcheries and what hatcheries you use. I guess some people regularly have eggs hatch with low-ish stats so it's not a huge deal for them, but for those of us who almost always get higher stats before hatching it's much more challenging. If my eggs already have around 3k views when they hatch it's going to be a lot more frustrating and difficult for me to keep those stats under the threshold while also allowing it to grow up (while supposedly the lower-time it gets the less overall-stats it needs to grow, in my experience an ER-timed hatchie with lower stats often takes *longer* to grow and therefore has longer to accumulate stats).  

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