Let everyone who enters the monthly raffle win a prize.

[HeatherMarie]

@ShorahNagi  I'd actually totally be okay with that. The different types would undoubtedly have different amounts of people entering, it would help the odds in general since each 'sub-raffle' would have less entries than lumping it all together like it is now, it would allow past winners (and people with 'least favorites') to still enter and enjoy the raffle without worrying about what type they might get... Especially because we have two very different Prize breeds with very different looks and body types, I think it would make sense to be able to choose what you are entering for. Even without any other adjustments at all I think that would be a very helpful thing. 

[UnicornMaiden]

4 hours ago, ShorahNagi said:

As a thought, what if players could choose which prize they enter for?

 

They would still need to qualify for the raffle, and still only get one entry, but they choose which prize they want to put their ticket for.

 

This in theory could improve the odds for some players [ex. If there's 15 bronze shimmers avaible to win, and only 30 people enter for them...that's a 50/50 shot at getting one*] while allowing others control over which prize they *may* get [removes the chance of ending up with a "least favorite"] and still allowing past winners a chance to get a different prize [ex. I have CB Bronze and Silver tinsel - I would love a Gold to complete the set]

 

*How many of each prize are avaible (and number of entrants per prize) would not be visible/known

 

This keeps the system the same, but allows a little flexibility without giving everyone something

 

 

 

I think that's a really good idea. Dividing the entries among six smaller raffles would feel like less competition for the prize you want. It also means that if someone really wants a particular prize, like a gold Tinsel or a silver Shimmer they would only have a chance of getting what they want instead of winning a sprite they maybe don't like so much.

[Razalin]

Re: players choosing what Prize to enter for

 

So, wouldn't that just make it *less* likely to win, like, a Gold Tinsel or Shimmer? Because those seem to be most desired as of now, most people would enter for those, I think. And then all the people getting Bronze/Silver Prizes over time will eventually move up to wanting a Gold Prize too (for completion sake, assumingly), so gradually there'll be *even more* people going for them. Unless this suggestion also includes getting rid of the 15:10:5 ratio of giving out prizes (or whichever the ratio is right now), that would make it way less likely to win a Gold (but potentially easier/faster to win a Bronze).

 

Using the given example from SorahNagi, only 30 people enter for a Bronze Shimmer and 15 are given out, great. How many players are wanting a Gold Shimmer? 1000? How many would be given out? 5?

You see what I mean here, unless the giveout ratio would be changed too that suggestion could go one way or another regarding your chances depending on what dragon you want (assuming players will not distribute themselves for each dragon equally, which would be very unlikely imo). Since this whole thread is more about making them easier to obtain (or just hading them out to everyone who wants one), I don't know if that fits with their goal.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Razalin

[ShorahNagi]

1 hour ago, Razalin said:

So, wouldn't that just make it *less* likely to win, like, a Gold Tinsel or Shimmer? Because those seem to be most desired as of now, most people would enter for those, I think. And then all the people getting Bronze/Silver Prizes over time will eventually move up to wanting a Gold Prize too (for completion sake, assumingly), so gradually there'll be *even more* people going for them. Unless this suggestion also includes getting rid of the 15:10:5 ratio of giving out prizes (or whichever the ratio is right now), that would make it way less likely to win a Gold (but potentially easier/faster to win a Bronze).

In theory, yes - the odds for other prizes may suffer as people win certain ones...but this could also have an opposite effect.

 

Let's assume the current 5:10:15 prize system is in place, and let's just use Tinsels for this example. Now there are 110 people who entered and with knowing these odds:

 

60 of them went for Bronze because they feel it has the best odds of giving them a prize, 40 went for Silver because they like the sprite the most, 10 went for Gold because...well, Gold!

 

In this case, the players who went for Gold had better odds (50/50 chance) than those who went Silver or Bronze (both of which have only a 25% chance of giving a prize)

 

As I said in my original post - the number of entrants and number of prizes would not be known *as it is now - all numbers that have been used have been based on prior knowledge of the old raffles*, so players couldn't play the odds like in this above example (they would be picking on preference alone). Plus, everyone has something different they're looking for. Those who have won Gold may now try for Silver, while those who haven't won anything might try for a Bronze given that it seems to have the highest amount given out. Those who got a least favorite might now try for their favorite. There might even be people who only ever enter for one type - trying to get a couple of purebred breeding pairs (or replace a refused prize mate).

As for getting rid/changing the ratio...I'm a bit neutral on that, but don't see it helping or hurting as even then, the odds would still be based on how many people enter for a certain prize versus how many of that prize are available. Using Tinsels again, let's say now we've a 10:10:10 split of the prizes and again we've got 110 entrants:

 

50 went Gold because, hey more gold prizes. 30 went Silver because it didn't change, and 30 went Bronze because they figured no one wants Bronze and they don't care.

 

Odds of winning this time? 1 in 5 (20%) chance of winning a gold. 1 in 3 chance of winning Silver/Bronze.

Edited May 12, 2021 by ShorahNagi

[Paradisiske]

9 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

And that's the way it works; qualify, enter, with the same chance as everyone else, hope for the best. It's random; it's a raffle. If you enter your state's lottery you don't expect everyone to get a prize because butt-hurt. Why should this be any different ?

 

 

 

As for the aim of getting a CB of all six of them - that almost certainly won't happen - RNG will just as likely get you 6 of the same one... The assumption that everyone should be able to have a CB of everything is badly flawed; it will never happen.

Because this isnt money or a physical item that will have physically limited quantities. This is a sprite that could be coded to be unlimited with absolutely no impact in real life where someone could lose their job or get a promotion if everyone were to automatically win a cb prize.

 

 

The assumption that everyone should not be able to have a cb of everything is badly flawed as well. People have been playing this game for years and willing to probably play until the site dies. People have been willing to spend hours hunting in the cave or doing trades. Some people are still willing to risk ap trading cb prizes. To say that it will never happen will just come back to bite you when someone inevitably due to determination and luck shows that they do virtually have cb everything. Lets just keep assumptions out of this please.

 

You all (general you) want a raffle to have rng basically.  Other users disagree because rng is rng. 

 

 

Having a 4th recolor isnt going to help because now you have another color for people to collect while leaving out the original three.

Being in the market would work but then wouldnt that go against the logic of it has to be done by rng for a sense of accomplishment!!! that is being used in this thread? 

 

 

I honestly didn't expect this much pushback for this thread and I am honestly surprised that so many loud voices prefer to have this dictated by rng as the only way when they're not tradable, not in the cave, and not in the market. 

 

At this point if my suggestion comes to fruition great! People will adapt and move on to other dragons in the game oh and more lineages will be built. 

If not, then whatever. rng will continue this.

[Jazeki]

Fuzz is the pinnacle of a player who has been playing for years and will probably be playing until the end (as are many other posters here). Many of us have virtually every available CB out there that regular players can have.  But there are some things that users cannot all have. It's not an assumption. It's how the game is built.

 

Even so, it isn't as if players are being denied CB prizes. They just aren't winning yet. When you enter the raffle, you understand that you aren't guaranteed to win a dragon. It's not a lucky dip.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HeatherMarie]

3 hours ago, Jazeki said:

Fuzz is the pinnacle of a player who has been playing for years and will probably be playing until the end (as are many other posters here). Many of us have virtually every available CB out there that regular players can have.  But there are some things that users cannot all have. It's not an assumption. It's how the game is built.

 

Even so, it isn't as if players are being denied CB prizes. They just aren't winning yet. When you enter the raffle, you understand that you aren't guaranteed to win a dragon. It's not a lucky dip.

 

 

Agreeing here.

 

I've played since 2008. I will play DC as long as it exists. Am I frustrated at the raffle in general? Yes. Do I feel disappointed every single month when I don't win? Yes. Do I wish there were other ways to get CB Prizes, like the cave or Market? Yes. Do I believe more users should have better chances at getting a CB Prize (either through increased numbers or whatever else)? Yes. 

 

Do I think it makes any sense at all for every single player to be handed a CB Prize every single month just for clicking a button? No. I don't think it makes sense and I don't think players or the game in general would actually benefit long-term from such a drastic change. CB Prizes are currently super-valuable and super-wanted by a good number of users. Why? Because they are so rare. Because you *can't* just buy or catch one, you are relying on the luck of the raffle. Every single month people enter and hope because they are so so wanted. This suggestion would make CB Prizes absolutely worthless. 2nd-gens would contain zero trading power. No one would care about trading for a Prize when they win one every single month. After awhile the only users who *would* be entering the raffle would be brand-new users, because everyone else will already have however many CB Prizes they want for their scroll. Prizes in general would go from 'special' to dirt-commons that people would eventually just get sick of seeing in general (I'm reminded of the Frill drama....). 

 

The raffle could be improved, I don't think many people disagree there. But this suggestion isn't an improvement, at least not long-term. 

[Fuzzbucket]

8 hours ago, Jazeki said:

Fuzz is the pinnacle of a player who has been playing for years and will probably be playing until the end (as are many other posters here). Many of us have virtually every available CB out there that regular players can have.  But there are some things that users cannot all have. It's not an assumption. It's how the game is built.

 

Even so, it isn't as if players are being denied CB prizes. They just aren't winning yet. When you enter the raffle, you understand that you aren't guaranteed to win a dragon. It's not a lucky dip.

 

Thanks for calling me a pinnacle....  pinnacles are usually rather slimmer than I am ! but yes, I am, since Jan 2010 - and yes I will, and I truly do not believe I will EVER get a CB silver shim. And I still say - a raffle is a raffle is a raffle.

 

If it stops being a raffle - that's one thing, and I don't mind if it does - TJ can put prizes in the market  (NOT in the biomes) - Eastern and Western -with a shard level of - say - twice whatever is running at top level, which would at this moment mean 9,400 (2x magma) (BTW folks - I see golds are quite affordable right now...) And I guess it would also have to be random which colour you get - just as it is for dorsals... THAT would annoy people...)

 

But as long as it is a raffle - RNG is the essential feature of a raffle, the whole point of it. The only way to load the odds is to allow extra tickets - and as that would disadvantage new players - not OK by me. Yes new players can grind - but I will still have 8 slots to their 4.

 

10 hours ago, CellyBean said:

Some people are still willing to risk ap trading cb prizes.

 

I don't know what you mean here. You can drop a CB prize to the AP, but there's no real hope of trading that way.

 

10 hours ago, CellyBean said:

I honestly didn't expect this much pushback for this thread and I am honestly surprised that so many loud voices prefer to have this dictated by rng as the only way when they're not tradable, not in the cave, and not in the market. 

A lot of people (loud voices is pushing it a bit - yours is as loud as anyone else's ☮️ !)  are happy to have the whole thing moved to the market. Just not with messing with what is a RAFFLE, plain and simple, one in which everyone has - and should have - an equal chance. Just giving them away would seem to go way past anything ever seen here. And if giving them away to everyone who enters came in - the next thing will be a dash of "no FAIR I don't LIKE drakes why should I have to raise three things I don't want just to get me a prize. EVERYONE should get a prize every month...."

Edited May 13, 2021 by Fuzzbucket

[Jazeki]

@Fuzzbucket, I suppose I could have written "a pinnacle example," but you're very in-SPIRE-ing. 😂

 

Anyway, I would support prizes added to the market and I would support the sub-raffle entry option where you can pick which dragon your ticket goes toward when you meet the requirements.

 

But yes, it does seem like if this were implemented, the next step would be for a user to question why we have raffle requirements at all. I can see how this could happen once people figure out they get a prize every month just by entering. We've had threads before from users who didn't think they are challenging or varied enough.  

Edited May 13, 2021 by Jazeki

[Fuzzbucket]

OOH OOH a spire is EVEN THINNER. I like where this is going.

 

I'm not sure about the sub-raffle thing - but as long as I am the ONLY PERSON who goes for a silver shim, that works.

[HeatherMarie]

7 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Just giving them away would seem to go way past anything ever seen here. And if giving them away to everyone who enters came in - the next thing will be a dash of "no FAIR I don't LIKE drakes why should I have to raise three things I don't want just to get me a prize. EVERYONE should get a prize every month...."

 

4 hours ago, Jazeki said:

 

But yes, it does seem like if this were implemented, the next step would be for a user to question why we have raffle requirements at all. I can see how this could happen once people figure out they get a prize every month just by entering. We've had threads before from users who didn't think they are challenging or varied enough.  

 

Actually, these points made me think of something else. Why *just* give away Prizes every month for clicking a button? That's what a lot of users would be thinking, most likely. Why can they get a CB Prize, previously the most valuable/rare thing in the game, every single month but not, say, a CB Gold? Why can't there be 'raffles' for CB Golds/Silvers/Staterae as well, just meet a small entry requirement and press that 'enter' button and get a CB rare every month! If CB Prizes can be handed out that way, why not? Why should we have to work so hard for so long for other breeds, why can't they be handed out too? 

(Seriously, this entire game, for it's entire existence, has had rares and hard-to-get breeds and breeds that some people spend months or even years trying to get... This suggestion really does change the entire focus of the game itself and there *will* be suggestions to do the same with other rare breeds and what is the point of having rare breeds in the first place and... yeah.)

 

[Fuzzbucket]

Yeah indeed. Even I hadn't got that far in my reasoning - but may I please have three more CB staterae ?

No wait - 5 would be better.

[UnicornMaiden]

If we had six sub-raffles where people enter for a particular prize would the entry requirements be the same for all of them? Or would the entry requirements for gold prizes be more challenging than the requirements for silver prizes and silver more challenging than bronze?

[ShorahNagi]

1 hour ago, UnicornMaiden said:

If we had six sub-raffles where people enter for a particular prize would the entry requirements be the same for all of them? Or would the entry requirements for gold prizes be more challenging than the requirements for silver prizes and silver more challenging than bronze?

The way I see it - the requirement wouod be the same for all. All that's different is you choose which "bucket" to drop your ticket into [If you think of it like real life, the requirement to enter is buying a ticket...but once you have your ticket, what you do with it is up to you]

 

8 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

Why *just* give away Prizes every month for clicking a button? That's what a lot of users would be thinking, most likely. Why can they get a CB Prize, previously the most valuable/rare thing in the game, every single month but not, say, a CB Gold? Why can't there be 'raffles' for CB Golds/Silvers/Staterae as well, just meet a small entry requirement and press that 'enter' button and get a CB rare every month! If CB Prizes can be handed out that way, why not?

That's possibly my biggest hang-up on the concept of any sort of dragon prize for all. No matter what dragon(s) would be given as additional prizes, there would still be complaints and cries to change the system.

 

At that point, the only solution is eliminate raffles and just release them in cave *but with that...bring on the problem of not knowing which of the six you got until you click it, followed by the challenge of trying to trade that CB Bronze Tinsel you hate for the CB Silver Shimmer you desire, or dealing with the hoarders*

[DigitalGarden]

Hmm. Letting the players pick the prize tier upon entering the raffle wouldn't be actually a terrible idea. It would help collecting all the colors and... I guess it would be somewhat fair and balanced.

 

...Greedy me still wants a golden tinsel for my bronze boy xD

[Fuzzbucket]

9 hours ago, ShorahNagi said:

At that point, the only solution is eliminate raffles and just release them in cave *but with that...bring on the problem of not knowing which of the six you got until you click it, followed by the challenge of trying to trade that CB Bronze Tinsel you hate for the CB Silver Shimmer you desire, or dealing with the hoarders*

 

In the market; not in the cave. A small compromise on their "special" status.

[UnicornMaiden]

10 hours ago, ShorahNagi said:

The way I see it - the requirement wouod be the same for all. All that's different is you choose which "bucket" to drop your ticket into [If you think of it like real life, the requirement to enter is buying a ticket...but once you have your ticket, what you do with it is up to you]

 

I've been to real life raffles that have tiered prizes. For example, most of the prizes require a white ticket that you buy and drop in their bucket. But then there's a separate table of fancier prizes that you have to buy a more expensive red ticket to drop in.

[Moonlightelf]

I'm not sure if these two options have been thought in this thread, so gonna add my two cents here.

 

In first raffles there was a tier where one could choose what egg they could get and even choose code.

What if we brought that partially back? The "consolation" prize would be random egg one could normally get from biomes, but instead has the Cave biome? Just like upside-down Mints, GoNs or Sinomorphs have when being randomly generated. Some may have bit of "meh" reaction to the prize won and choose to abandon it, some probably get more excited that they won at least something. With the pool of dragons we have, who knows if someone ended up with the long-sought rare that they didn't get from biome or didn't have shards yet to buy one in the first place?

 

Another thought would be another "consolation" prize in form of set amount of shards, maybe 200-500 shards? Then they in a sense could "choose" their prize with what they have unlocked in Market or save it for the bigger purchase later on.

 

Who knows... maybe both of these? Two more tiers to win at least something.

[Jazeki]

2 hours ago, Moonlightelf said:

I'm not sure if these two options have been thought in this thread, so gonna add my two cents here.

 

In first raffles there was a tier where one could choose what egg they could get and even choose code.

What if we brought that partially back? The "consolation" prize would be random egg one could normally get from biomes, but instead has the Cave biome? Just like upside-down Mints, GoNs or Sinomorphs have when being randomly generated. Some may have bit of "meh" reaction to the prize won and choose to abandon it, some probably get more excited that they won at least something. With the pool of dragons we have, who knows if someone ended up with the long-sought rare that they didn't get from biome or didn't have shards yet to buy one in the first place?

 

Uhhh. I'd be pretty miffed to win a random cave-coded dragon. It's not a prize dragon, which is what the raffle is for in the first place. Also, I've been playing since 2009, so a lot of my dragons are already cave-coded because there were no biomes originally. If people want this, great. Otherwise, it doesn't address the issue of people wanting actual prize breeds when they win.

[HeatherMarie]

3 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

Uhhh. I'd be pretty miffed to win a random cave-coded dragon. It's not a prize dragon, which is what the raffle is for in the first place. Also, I've been playing since 2009, so a lot of my dragons are already cave-coded because there were no biomes originally. If people want this, great. Otherwise, it doesn't address the issue of people wanting actual prize breeds when they win.

 

Agreed. While I've softened a bit over time to the idea of a 'consolation prize' of sorts, I'd much rather it be some shards. A random cave-coded dragon, most likely a common, isn't going to help anyone at all. It doesn't soften the blow and doesn't even feel like 'winning' at all when it's something that we already have plenty of on our scroll already (at least us old-timers do). We enter the raffle for one reason and one reason only: the chance to win a CB Prize. We aren't entering to get a random 'cave' egg that we probably already have. I sure as heck wouldn't be excited, and would probably feel more frustrated than ever, to *finally* 'win' something only for it to be some worthless common I already have. 

 

..... Maybe, similar to the idea of being able to enter specifically for a certain type of Prize, you could choose whether to enter the raffle *only* for the top-tier prize of CB Prize, or enter for 'CB Prize or consolation prize'? People who would be happy to just win at all, regardless what they get, can enter the latter and those of us who would be frustrated to 'win' a random common could enter only for the Prize. 

[purplehaze]

I think someone else already brought up the idea of the "consolation" prize of a random cave dragon. I cannot support the idea. Like Heather, I would be pretty upset to finally win something only to have it be something that I could pick up any day of the week in the cave and already have as many as I want on my scroll.

 

The shards, in my opinion, would be less of a disappointment. They at least could be useful.

[Lagie]

On 5/9/2021 at 5:02 PM, Seriva Senkalora said:

A raffle is a raffle is a raffle.

Exactly! (Lost the original @Fuzzbucket quote somehow.)

 

On 5/9/2021 at 8:00 PM, Starscream said:

giving everyone a raffle prize defeats the purpose of a raffle.

Also exactly!

[DragonLady86]

On 5/14/2021 at 11:01 AM, Moonlightelf said:

I'm not sure if these two options have been thought in this thread, so gonna add my two cents here.

 

In first raffles there was a tier where one could choose what egg they could get and even choose code.

What if we brought that partially back? The "consolation" prize would be random egg one could normally get from biomes, but instead has the Cave biome? Just like upside-down Mints, GoNs or Sinomorphs have when being randomly generated. Some may have bit of "meh" reaction to the prize won and choose to abandon it, some probably get more excited that they won at least something. With the pool of dragons we have, who knows if someone ended up with the long-sought rare that they didn't get from biome or didn't have shards yet to buy one in the first place?

 

Another thought would be another "consolation" prize in form of set amount of shards, maybe 200-500 shards? Then they in a sense could "choose" their prize with what they have unlocked in Market or save it for the bigger purchase later on.

 

Who knows... maybe both of these? Two more tiers to win at least something.

Shards have been brought up here and in other threads, for most it's a big no.

 

Other dragons, I have a cb pair of everything, many which are "cave". Why would I want to win one? Unless TJ can be persuaded to bring back Honorable Mentions. (Fully or even just picking your code) I can't see most people wanting this either. And, sadly, I don't see TJ bringing that back.

Edited May 16, 2021 by DragonLady86
Weird phone typos

[Darth Krande]

I like the concept. But what about giving one random (most likely, a bronze) prize after a given number of raffle entries? The catch being, if you accept the "you have the choice to take this prize egg for playing so long" offer, you'd be not allowed to enter the raffle again, so you won't ever be able to get another. If you decline, you may eventually not only win one prize but also be allowed to continue the raffle and win another. 

 

 

Another idea. Make this happen to the tinsels and shimmerscales, so that everybody has a chance to win / earn one, and add new prize dragons to the raffle. Prize drakes! Or prize two-heads (actually I would LOVE that.) Or tiny prizes. Or all of the above. 

[HeatherMarie]

Definite no to any new Prize breeds! The raffle and Prizes are so frustrating and controversial and debated as they are, we don't need to deliberately add to that. Any new Prize breeds would just be this exact same issue except even worse because almost no one will have any at all, so more trading frustration, more 'new breed no one can get' frustration... Please no. 

 

The giving random/bronze after so long most likely won't happen, but I'd be interested in seeing the idea fleshed out. What 'given number of raffle entries' would be acceptable? I would say at least one year of entering and not winning, that's 12 raffles lost. That actually sounds on the low side though, for basically being handed a CB Prize as a loophole to the actual raffle. The monthly raffles started end-of-May 2017, so that's going on 4 full years many of us have been entering with no win.