Let everyone who enters the monthly raffle win a prize.

[Paradisiske]

So basically as the title states.

 

Why? Because you have people who have been playing for years and still haven't won and then you have people who won multiple times. You also have multiscrollers like that one person who had three! cb prizes growing on their scroll. (They were burned). 

 

So you have limited entries, some of which are going to multiscrollers. It causes drama all the time. People saying things that someone who already won a prize shouldn't be allowed to win another. Its causing drama and division in the community.

 Make it so that everyone who enters win and then less drama and more happiness. 

 

But what about the trading economy?

2g prizes have already lost a lot of value. And no game decision should be made to help keep other people elite based on luck of the draw imo.

 

Will they be tradable? No. 

 

But these dragons are called prize dragons and should be won as a prize. They need to be kept as special!!!

They still will be. If someone doesn't enter the raffle then they don't win a prize dragon. 

 

But then the multiscrollers will just win prizes on all their scrolls.

So what? Out of fear of cheaters the rest of the community should be punished? The prizes aren't tradable and everyone else would have won a prize too.

 

What about the ratios?

Well seeing as how you can only get the cb version from the raffle ratios don't really apply there. Breeding ratios will be strained more with cb prize owners but it is a person's own choice to breed their own dragons on their own scroll. Use fertility and be patient. Massbreed commons to help boost the ratios up.

 

I don't want to see the ap flooded with prizefails or more messy prize lines.

Anyone can toss whatever they want in the ap. No one is entitled to cbs, 2gs, or nice linages in the ap. You make the conscious choice to hunt in what is basically the games trash basket. Don't be upset that you will encounter "trash" in it. 

 

What about scripters?

Same deal as with the multiscrollers. 

 

Kind of sounds like a gacha game mechanic with daily login rewards. 

The raffle as it is already is kind of like that except you have no guarantee of getting any reward. 

 

 

How does this help the game?

It gives more "exclusive" dragons to the whole community that are exclusive for arbitrary reasons not at all like a spriters alt. People are happier, more linage building is made which leads to more active long-term players, people will sign in for the month because they know they will get a reward of doing so. It keeps the game itself more active and healthy. 

 

 

 

I do believe I have covered every argument. If I missed any please let me know. 

 

Thoughts?

[Jazeki]

Are these going to still be the prizes already offered or some new dragon? 

[HeatherMarie]

Very very very very much doubt this would ever happen. I don't know exactly how many people enter the raffle every month, but it's almost certainly at least a few hundred. Maybe even more towards a thousand. Giving out *that* many CB Prizes every single month would completely defeat the entire purpose of a limited raffle and the purpose of Prize dragons in general. Raffles are not and never have been 'everyone who enters wins', that's just not what the term 'raffle' means. At all. You have a *chance* to win. 

 

I could support an *increase* in the number of winners each month, but what you are suggesting is basically trashing the entire concept of monthly raffles and Prize dragons in general. If every single person who enters wins, they might as well not even be *Prize* dragons at all. 

 

edit: If I've misunderstood and this is talking about *different* prizes, that's another story. Still no support, but another story. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by HeatherMarie

[Fuzzbucket]

The one argument you have missed is - why bother with the raffle at all, then. Just put the eggs in the cave and have done with it.

 

No support - sorry. I wish there had never been a raffle in the first place - that first year was horrible. But now that there is, it works tolerable well, so why not just leave it be. 

[Paradisiske]

1 minute ago, Jazeki said:

Are these going to still be the prizes already offered or some new dragon? 

The prizes already offered. If a new prize breed is made then I would want the same to apply to them.

 

1 minute ago, HeatherMarie said:

Very very very very much doubt this would ever happen. I don't know exactly how many people enter the raffle every month, but it's almost certainly at least a few hundred. Maybe even more towards a thousand. Giving out *that* many CB Prizes every single month would completely defeat the entire purpose of a limited raffle and the purpose of Prize dragons in general. Raffles are not and never have been 'everyone who enters wins', that's just not what the term 'raffle' means. At all. You have a *chance* to win. 

 

I could support an *increase* in the number of winners each month, but what you are suggesting is basically trashing the entire concept of monthly raffles and Prize dragons in general. If every single person who enters wins, they might as well not even be *Prize* dragons at all. 

I highly doubt that there is around 1000 raffle entries every month. This game has been losing active players for awhile now. Why does the raffle have to be limited? As I said its completely arbitrary. And for some irl raffles I have participated in yes it is everyone who enters wins something. It may not be anything amazing but it is something. And if using the term raffle bothers you that much then the term can be simply changed to something else such as giveaway. 

 

And yes they would still be prize dragons as the only way to get them is from the "raffle" and you have to enter the "raffle" to get one.

2 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

The one argument you have missed is - why bother with the raffle at all, then. Just put the eggs in the cave and have done with it.

 

No support - sorry. I wish there had never been a raffle in the first place - that first year was horrible. But now that there is, it works tolerable well, so why not just leave it be. 

Yeah I would want that too but then you have to consider the matching egg descriptions and tweaking the ratios in the cave and then people not catching any or catching a gold instead and getting upset over that and then with scripters/multiscrollers catching them all in the cave leading to more drama.

 

This suggestion is just imo an easier way to handle the cb prizes. It seems to be simpler to implement into the game. 

[MissK.]

I've been in favour of making prizes more accessible in some way since the first batch was given out, despite being one of the winners. However, this does seem to defeat the point of giving them out in raffles at all. If everyone is going to get one every month just by putting in minimal effort, that's not really a raffle anymore, it's just buying it with your gameplay time. And we already have a mechanism for that; the market. If you want everyone to be able to get one with minimal effort, just make them available in the market for 500 shards or something.

[HeatherMarie]

Huh. Do you have any proof this game has been 'losing active players for awhile now'? I see that assumption come up in suggestion threads every so often but if it's true at all it's fairly minimal. Hundreds of people are here every month during new releases, that's for sure. 

 

Raffles, by their very nature, are limited. Prize Dragons, by their very concept, are supposed to be limited. Yes it's frustrating to enter every month and not win, but Prize dragons lose any and all meaning if every single person who enters gets one. It ceases to be a raffle, or a Prize, at all. Honestly I'd think there'd be a better chance at convincing TJ to just do away with raffles altogether (ie, no more new Prizes given out) than to give a CB Prize to every single person who enters. 

[MissK.]

Just for the record, by the site's own counter there are 382 users online right now. If we get several hundreds of members online at the same time, considering time zones and people who don't even play every day, it's pretty much guaranteed that the monthly raffle will have far more entries than that.

[Jazeki]

If everyone gets a prize for entering (and they're the same prizes offered), how do we distinguish "legitimate" first, second, and third place winners from those who are just getting a prize for entering? Do they automatically get bronze prizes?

[HeatherMarie]

1 minute ago, Jazeki said:

If everyone gets a prize for entering (and they're the same prizes offered), how do we distinguish "legitimate" first, second, and third place winners from those who are just getting a prize for entering? Do they automatically get bronze prizes?

 

Good point. How is it determined who gets what? Will the same amount of bronzes be given out as golds? Because there is a deliberate difference in the numbers given for each type. 

[Paradisiske]

1 minute ago, HeatherMarie said:

Huh. Do you have any proof this game has been 'losing active players for awhile now'? I see that assumption come up in suggestion threads every so often but if it's true at all it's fairly minimal. Hundreds of people are here every month during new releases, that's for sure. 

 

Raffles, by their very nature, are limited. Prize Dragons, by their very concept, are supposed to be limited. Yes it's frustrating to enter every month and not win, but Prize dragons lose any and all meaning if every single person who enters gets one. It ceases to be a raffle, or a Prize, at all. Honestly I'd think there'd be a better chance at convincing TJ to just do away with raffles altogether (ie, no more new Prizes given out) than to give a CB Prize to every single person who enters. 

It is just from what I have seen. I remember there being more than 500 active players on the site. I remember the new release threads getting more than around 10 pages of replies before being shut down. I remember the trading forums being a lot more active. Coming back to this game has been a small shock as how much more quieter it is. I see prominent forum figures who haven't logged in years such as Thuban. 400 active players is virtually nothing to what it has been.  

 

The prize dragons will still be limited. You will have to enter the "raffle" to get one. If the logistics of words is what is bothering you then we can go back to calling them by their names, Tinsel dragons and Shimmerscale Dragons. Again there shouldn't be ANY meaning of being special or exclusive to these sprites. The winners don't jump through hoops to win. In fact the only true case of these dragons being "prize" dragons was when they were first introduced in the christmas tree competition. 

 

1 minute ago, Jazeki said:

If everyone gets a prize for entering (and they're the same prizes offered), how do we distinguish "legitimate" first, second, and third place winners from those who are just getting a prize for entering? Do they automatically get bronze prizes?

? It would just be how it is now. Press a button to enter the raffle. 1 out of 6 chance for either of the sprites. 

 

Just now, HeatherMarie said:

 

Good point. How is it determined who gets what? Will the same amount of bronzes be given out as golds? Because there is a deliberate difference in the numbers given for each type. 

It would be random chance. Like spinning a wheel to see which one you get. It's equal chance to get any of the sprites because it is a 1 out of 6 chance for all of them.

 

10 minutes ago, MissK. said:

I've been in favour of making prizes more accessible in some way since the first batch was given out, despite being one of the winners. However, this does seem to defeat the point of giving them out in raffles at all. If everyone is going to get one every month just by putting in minimal effort, that's not really a raffle anymore, it's just buying it with your gameplay time. And we already have a mechanism for that; the market. If you want everyone to be able to get one with minimal effort, just make them available in the market for 500 shards or something.

We still don't even have sunrise/sunset and zyus in the market. This suggestion imo seems more likely than asking TJ to put them in the market. 

[MissK.]

7 minutes ago, CellyBean said:

We still don't even have sunrise/sunset and zyus in the market. This suggestion imo seems more likely than asking TJ to put them in the market. 

 

To be blunt, I don't think TJ would ever implement something like this. The raffles are by their nature exclusive, otherwise there wouldn't even be a requirement to join - heck, we could all just be automatically added to it every month without pressing a button. But that is not the case, they are specifically designed to jump through (admittedly small) hoops so that only active players get a chance at something. You show up, play, and can enter. The equivalent of showing up, playing, and straight up earning something for it...is literally the market. 

 

Edit: To be clear, I also don't like how long it takes to implement clearly necessary changes about the market. But it still seems at least in the realm of possibilities to add a breed to it, instead of basically hand out free stuff for which there is no precedent in the game.

Edited April 25, 2021 by MissK.

[Paradisiske]

Just now, MissK. said:

 

To be blunt, I don't think TJ would ever implement something like this. The raffles are by their nature exclusive, otherwise there wouldn't even be a requirement to join - heck, we could all just be automatically added to it every month without pressing a button. But that is not the case, they are specifically designed to jump through (admittedly small) hoops so that only active players get a chance at something. You show up, play, and can enter. The equivalent of showing up, playing, and straight up earning something for it...is literally the market. 

Market prices arent static. Take a look at the stats. This would be static. Just press a button. And now that I think about it we really shouldn't be judging suggestions on what we assume TJ will or won't do.

 

Either way, I have nothing against them going in the market. 

[PrincessLucy]

I would love to see a booby prize dragon.

[Astreya]

What about increasing number of Prizes by adding a bunch of Staterae to the Raffle wins? These buggers are so elusive that one could just enter them as 4th Raffle breed with, say, the number of the Bronze Prizes.

[HeatherMarie]

Technically Tinsel and Shimmerscale are not their names, unofficially maybe but their official names are *Prize* Dragon.  edit: Okay 'Shimmer-scale' is actually mentioned in their description, but they are still formally listed as Prize Dragon (Eastern). 

 

13 minutes ago, CellyBean said:

 

? It would just be how it is now. Press a button to enter the raffle. 1 out of 6 chance for either of the sprites. 

 

It would be random chance. Like spinning a wheel to see which one you get. It's equal chance to get any of the sprites because it is a 1 out of 6 chance for all of them.

 

 

This would be a significant change from how it is now, not 'just be how it is now'. It's not an equal chance. There are significantly less gold Prizes given out than bronze. 

 

8 minutes ago, MissK. said:

 

To be blunt, I don't think TJ would ever implement something like this. The raffles are by their nature exclusive, otherwise there wouldn't even be a requirement to join - heck, we could all just be automatically added to it every month without pressing a button. But that is not the case, they are specifically designed to jump through (admittedly small) hoops so that only active players get a chance at something. You show up, play, and can enter. The equivalent of showing up, playing, and straight up earning something for it...is literally the market. 

 

This. If we haven't been able to convince TJ to allow Prizes in the Market or biomes, I certainly don't see this happening. Regardless of terminology, the 'monthly raffle' as it's supposed to be and meant to be would completely cease to exist. This would be literally handing out Prizes to anyone who clicks a button. There is nothing raffle, or prize, or limited, or exciting about that. It changes the entire concept of what Prize dragons *are*. They were never *meant* to be handed out like candy. 

 

The raffles frustrate me, they frustrate a lot of people. But at this point such a complete redesign of how it all works is almost inconceivable. You say this suggestion is simpler or more likely, I very much doubt that. This suggestion changes the very nature of Prizes.

Edited April 25, 2021 by HeatherMarie

[Jazeki]

Based on how this seems to be being fleshed out, I'm leaning from neutral to no support. TJ has worked hard to maintain that prizes are somewhat exclusive (even with changing raffle requirements). HM's have long since been removed and suggestions for bringing them back or offering other consolation prizes have been continually shot down.

 

I don't see how having the option to "win" a prize every month will be any different than those who have already won multiple prizes with the way raffles are now.

[MissK.]

1 minute ago, CellyBean said:

Market prices arent static. Take a look at the stats. This would be static. Just press a button. And now that I think about it we really shouldn't be judging suggestions on what we assume TJ will or won't do.

 

Either way, I have nothing against them going in the market. 

 

I agree that assuming TJ's opinion shouldn't be the main argument. As someone who has been playing since 2008, I just don't see automatically distributing things to people's scrolls as fitting into the style of the game, and that is tied to the fact that it seems contrary to what TJ usually does since he's the one calling the shots here. I mean, think of April Fool's mints...again, random chance, we don't all just get one on our scrolls just for showing up on the day. I could be wrong of course, this is just my opinion and the reason that I am against this specific suggestion.

[Paradisiske]

5 minutes ago, PrincessLucy said:

I would love to see a booby prize dragon.

??????

 

5 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

Technically Tinsel and Shimmerscale are not their names, unofficially maybe but their official names are *Prize* Dragon.  edit: Okay 'Shimmer-scale' is actually mentioned in their description, but they are still formally listed as Prize Dragon (Eastern). 

 

 

This would be a significant change from how it is now, not 'just be how it is now'. It's not an equal chance. There are significantly less gold Prizes given out than bronze. 

 

 

This. If we haven't been able to convince TJ to allow Prizes in the Market or biomes, I certainly don't see this happening. Regardless of terminology, the 'monthly raffle' as it's supposed to be and meant to be would completely cease to exist. This would be literally handing out Prizes to anyone who clicks a button. There is nothing raffle, or prize, or limited, or exciting about that. It changes the entire concept of what Prize dragons *are*. They were never *meant* to be handed out like candy. 

 

The raffles frustrate me, they frustrate a lot of people. But at this point such a complete redesign of how it all works is almost inconceivable. You say this suggestion is simpler or more likely, I very much doubt that. This suggestion changes the very nature of Prizes.

Is that so? I never won the raffle so I'm sorry if I was wrong about the mechanics behind it.

 

Yes, this suggestion is about not having these be limited. Or "exciting" though I and I'm sure others would still find it exciting every month to see which one we get. 

I say that is it simpler it terms of programming. However I could be wrong. 

 

6 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

Based on how this seems to be being fleshed out, I'm leaning from neutral to no support. TJ has worked hard to maintain that prizes are somewhat exclusive (even with changing raffle requirements). HM's have long since been removed and suggestions for bringing them back or offering other consolation prizes have been continually shot down.

 

I don't see how having the option to "win" a prize every month will be any different than those who have already won multiple prizes with the way raffles are now.

Because everyone would have won one which means there is less drama, fighting and attacks on those who have had won more than once as it is now. 

 

7 minutes ago, MissK. said:

 

I agree that assuming TJ's opinion shouldn't be the main argument. As someone who has been playing since 2008, I just don't see automatically distributing things to people's scrolls as fitting into the style of the game, and that is tied to the fact that it seems contrary to what TJ usually does since he's the one calling the shots here. I mean, think of April Fool's mints...again, random chance, we don't all just get one on our scrolls just for showing up on the day. I could be wrong of course, this is just my opinion and the reason that I am against this specific suggestion.

Well it is just a suggestion. No one can say what TJ thinks unless he says it himself. 

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I am very much in favor of Prizes being more accessible. That being said, I think this slides right off the accessible cliff into "commonplace," which isn't what I want to see either. It also completely negates the raffle being, well, a raffle.

 

I'd rather see:

- Prizes being more abundantly distributed

- "4th and 5th place" prizes of CB Golds and Silvers--doesn't help the Prize situation itself, no, but still a nice thing to do for those who keep not winning.

- Prizes being available for a very high price in the market, ensuring that with time and patience, anyone can (slowly) earn them. Someone once suggested about 6 months to earn a Prize (maybe a touch less for Silver, an even bigger touch less for Bronze), something that definitely makes them an investment but also makes them something people can actually WORK towards. I also think going this route would still keep raffle Prizes special. I hadn't bought anything from the market pre Staterae, but I could not for the life of me get more than two from the cave. It felt weird "buying" these essentially godly things from a market, and they still aren't as special to me, even though they do help with lineages. I imagine the view on Prizes would be similar--even if they were around, people would still likely want to try winning them, either for the satisfaction of getting a "real" Prize or to save shards. Mileage will vary and some won't care, but I still think expensive Market Prizes and the raffle can coexist.

[Jazeki]

11 minutes ago, CellyBean said:

Because everyone would have won one which means there is less drama, fighting and attacks on those who have had won more than once as it is now. 

I dunno. It's human nature for the person who finally has one prize to be hypothetically jealous of the person who now has even more prizes. That being said, I don't think there's as much drama as you seem to be implying.

 

In my silly way, I'd like to just press a button and be granted a prize every month, but this seems to be akin to pressing a button and getting golds--which TJ has repeatedly said he wouldn't do. I'd like if we could have more prize winners, but this seems like not the way to go about it. 

[Paradisiske]

Just now, Jazeki said:

I dunno. It's human nature for the person who finally has one prize to be hypothetically jealous of the person who now has even more prizes. That being said, I don't think there's as much drama as you seem to be implying.

 

In my silly way, I'd like to just press a button and be granted a prize every month, but this seems to be akin to pressing a button and getting golds--which TJ has repeatedly said he wouldn't do. I'd like if we could have more prize winners, but this seems like not the way to go about it. 

Golds are available in cave and in the market. I do not think that it is a comparable example. You're right there would still be jealously issues but I believe that they would be mitigated because at least now people will know they just have to wait a month to get another one and so on. I remember there being threads on the forums asking for limits on cb prize winners. I see it come up on discord and facebook with people being bitter. 

 

I am just tired of it. I know that it is impossible to please everyone but this seems like the fastest and easiest way to go about it as everyone who enters will at least have one cb prize if they only do it once. 

 

And what TJ has said he won't do with golds doesn't automatically apply to prizes. 

[Jazeki]

What I mean is, TJ probably does not intend to ever have things be as easy as "press a button, get a rare." I've been around for all the threads with all of the ire directed at prize winners. It's not like it doesn't exist, but this does not really fix the issue in the slightest. Imagine how a new player just starting out would feel with no prizes, looking at older users who have 10, 12, 14, what have you. I'm an old player (as you and a ton of other players probably already know). I don't have a prize. There are plenty of things on this site that people really want (Thuweds, spriter alts, HM's, black sweetlings, the little pancake sprite), but can't have. People ask me all the time how I have so many dragons (or they just straight up tell me to give them  my prizes,Thuweds, spriter altkins, whatever). That's just how users on this site are. It's not a good thing, but not something that magically will change with free prizes every month. 

 

Turning prize dragons into...giveaway dragons...doesn't really fix the issue. It just sticks a dragon-shaped bandaid over the problem. And this is coming from someone who supported HM prizes and bringing back HM's. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Jazeki

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, HeatherMarie said:

Huh. Do you have any proof this game has been 'losing active players for awhile now'? I see that assumption come up in suggestion threads every so often but if it's true at all it's fairly minimal. Hundreds of people are here every month during new releases, that's for sure. 

I haven't seen any evidence of that at all.

1 hour ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

Raffles, by their very nature, are limited. Prize Dragons, by their very concept, are supposed to be limited. Yes it's frustrating to enter every month and not win, but Prize dragons lose any and all meaning if every single person who enters gets one. It ceases to be a raffle, or a Prize, at all. Honestly I'd think there'd be a better chance at convincing TJ to just do away with raffles altogether (ie, no more new Prizes given out) than to give a CB Prize to every single person who enters. 

I rather agree.

53 minutes ago, CellyBean said:

It is just from what I have seen. I remember there being more than 500 active players on the site.

And there often are.

53 minutes ago, CellyBean said:

I remember the new release threads getting more than around 10 pages of replies before being shut down.

Stats for that - just this year:

 January - 30 pages

Valentine - 20 pages

March 13 pages....

 

That one doesn't hold up.

53 minutes ago, CellyBean said:

I remember the trading forums being a lot more active. Coming back to this game has been a small shock as how much more quieter it is. I see prominent forum figures who haven't logged in years such as Thuban. 400 active players is virtually nothing to what it has been.  

That's partly down to the hub.

53 minutes ago, CellyBean said:

We still don't even have sunrise/sunset and zyus in the market. This suggestion imo seems more likely than asking TJ to put them in the market. 

That's a completely different issue.

42 minutes ago, PrincessLucy said:

I would love to see a booby prize dragon.

Oh god so would I. A carrot ?

41 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

Based on how this seems to be being fleshed out, I'm leaning from neutral to no support. TJ has worked hard to maintain that prizes are somewhat exclusive (even with changing raffle requirements). HM's have long since been removed and suggestions for bringing them back or offering other consolation prizes have been continually shot down.

 

I don't see how having the option to "win" a prize every month will be any different than those who have already won multiple prizes with the way raffles are now.

Exactly this.

13 minutes ago, CellyBean said:

Golds are available in cave and in the market. I do not think that it is a comparable example. You're right there would still be jealously issues but I believe that they would be mitigated because at least now people will know they just have to wait a month to get another one and so on. I remember there being threads on the forums asking for limits on cb prize winners. I see it come up on discord and facebook with people being bitter. 

The fact that some people get bitter only means that - they get bitter. People get bitter about all sorts of things in life. If a game makes them bitter, maybe better not to play that game.

As to "wait a month to get another one" - that would mean everyone who entered every month would have 12 prizes by the end of a year. This is not going to fly - nor should it.

13 minutes ago, CellyBean said:

 

I am just tired of it. I know that it is impossible to please everyone but this seems like the fastest and easiest way to go about it as everyone who enters will at least have one cb prize if they only do it once. 

Whenever someone says that, it usually seems to mean  "the fastest and easiest way for me to finally get one."

 

Takes me back to the early days of summoning. As one of those who had to wait three years for my first - patience does one no harm.

 

[DragonLady86]

So this is basically "give me free dragons every month". And that is not happening. Why have a raffle at all? Why not just auto generate an egg on every scroll that was online that month? 

 

There are ways to make the raffle better. This is not it.