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AncientFyre

Resuscitate/Revive egg

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I don't particularly favour revive for eggs, so status quo is OK by me :)

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Thanks for your feedback, everyone!

Here are my 50 cents to some of your posts:

On 2/27/2021 at 6:15 PM, angelicdragonpuppy said:

Yes, that's true. But even so I'd rather the rules for reviving an egg and hatchie be consistent across both. I can picture the dozens of help threads asking "WHY couldn't I revive my egg?!" now. Confusion reduction is a good thing.

Exactly why I started this discussion. I wondered why eggs are treated differently.

 

On 2/25/2021 at 11:52 PM, Fuzzbucket said:

... But that's a point - if an egg has been saved once and is bombed again - how many times could you do this revive thing ?

I would expect this to work once like with hatchies.

 

On 2/27/2021 at 12:17 PM, Ruffledfeathers said:

However I do wonder, if your egg slots were full and you were successful, would you not go above the slots? Like you can with hatchies. 

That's a very good question, but I suppose the mechanism (if ever implemented) would and should work like the one for hatchies.

 

On 2/26/2021 at 3:45 AM, Shadowdrake said:

A surprise zombie hatchie would be pretty funny though.

LOL, I never thought of that. Would be funny, but only if the chance is really low, otherwise people would start killing loads of eggs.

 

On 2/26/2021 at 5:58 PM, ShorahNagi said:

...rather I feel revive should just restore the egg to full - maybe it sets the egg to 4 days (so well within hatching time)?

That would be a great idea. I thought the "hatches straight away" version for eggs 3 days or more after being laid (less than 4 days left), the "restore egg" for eggs that are younger (more than 4 days left). But your suggestion would work fine, I guess.

 

On 2/26/2021 at 1:15 PM, Fuzzbucket said:

How about killing two birds with one stone. Reviving an egg - gives you a frozen egg sprite instead of a growing thing ?

That's another idea I had not thought about. I'm neutral when it comes to the "frozen eggs" issue, so either using or not using this idea would be fine for me.

 

I'd really like to know TJ's thoughts of this.

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Personally I don't feel strongly about this one way or the other, but I don't see any reason not to support it. If you can use revive on a dead hatchling regardless of how it died why should it be any different for an egg?

 

Though, I do think that if it works for eggs it should work the same way it would with a hatchling, which is not what is described in the first post.

 

On 2/25/2021 at 3:31 AM, AncientFyre said:

These things could happen:

- The attempt is successful and the egg returns to its former state. ("You succeed in saving the egg and its inhabitant by patching the shell together again.")

- The attempt is successful and the egg hatches. ("You gently pull the smashed bits of shell apart and manage to save the hatchie inside.")

- The attempt fails and the egg is dead for good. ("You try to resuscitate the small life inside the smashed egg using magic, but sadly you fail. The shell crumles into bits." )

 

According to the wiki, the way Revive works currently:

 

Quote

Three things can happen:

  1. The revival will fail and the dragon is dead for good. ("You attempt to revive the dragon/hatchling using magic, but fail. The dragon’s body disintegrates." )
  2. The revival is successful and the dragon returns to its former state. ("You attempt to revive the dragon using magic, and are successful.")
  3. The revival is only partially successful and the dragon turns into an Undead Dragon, also known as a Zombie Dragon. ("You attempt to revive the dragon/hatchling using magic, but something goes horribly wrong. The dragon is brought back from the dead as a zombie." )

 

That means that if we implement it the same way the egg should either die permanently, be restored to its former state, or hatch into a zombie hatchling.

 

On 2/26/2021 at 11:58 AM, ShorahNagi said:

I feel revive should just restore the egg to full - maybe it sets the egg to 4 days (so well within hatching time)?

 

If a hatchling is successfully revived after running out of time it only gets two days added. 

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My mind jumped to a BSA for some reason. Some dragon that idk has maternal instincts so high it can actually bring the eggo back to life, but if it senses that it was killed, it becomes repulsed by the egg and doesn't want anything to do with it.

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I have accidentally killed eggs as a newbie many long years ago, and consider it part of the learning experience of the game. No, earthquake will probably kill more than it hatches and rarely hatches the one you want. No, if you bite an egg and it dies, it's not coming back. Ouch, there's a 24 hour penalty. We all learn from our mistakes and go on. Yes, it can be sad but learn and move on.

 

Sorry, no support. It's a very basic part of the lifecycles in the game.

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On 3/24/2021 at 11:00 AM, FarawayCreatures said:

My mind jumped to a BSA for some reason. Some dragon that idk has maternal instincts so high it can actually bring the eggo back to life, but if it senses that it was killed, it becomes repulsed by the egg and doesn't want anything to do with it.

 

 

Huh.  I could see this as a BSA for some dragon that's strong in Life mana, maybe!  Using Life magic to restore an egg and baby would be an easy way to provide the three hatchling-style outcomes:

a) the dragon is successful at repairing both egg and baby, resulting in an unhatched egg

b) the dragon is successful at restoring the hatchling but not the egg, resulting in a normal hatchling*

c) the dragon is not successful at restoring either, resulting in no change

 

 

* or a zombie, if that option is implemented instead - maybe the only way to get a normal baby is to restore the egg and then hatch it, to avoid people killing and reviving eggs to get shortcut the waiting time

 

 

I don't know that I'd ever use it, but I'd support it just for the fun of it!  Having more ways to interact with eggs would be nice, since we can't freeze them and can't name them.

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On 2/27/2021 at 1:33 AM, DragonLady86 said:

Somewhat confused here, you said no if the egg was deliberately killed but also want the action to be consistent. Revive currently works on hatchlings and adults that were deliberately killed. In fact deliberate action is the only way to get a dead adult dragon.

Exactly my thought! I don't really understand why it currently work that way and why egg need to be different. We should be able to try and revive the egg the same way we can with hatchling and adult. Tho I guess it could be fine if the chance are slightly lower or if it's limited to BSA? Not totally sure about that part, but if it has to be implemented that way, I would be fine with it. I dissagre that they should have a distinction between killed and died egg as it doesn't apply to hatchling. 

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Support on having it work just like the normal revive option regardless of how the egg died, with one of the options being either the egg hatching into a normal OR a zombie hatchie.  Less supportive on a BSA but would still accept it.  As several people said, revive already works on deliberately killed things; why would eggs need to be any different?

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On 3/24/2021 at 5:06 PM, dragongrrl said:

I have accidentally killed eggs as a newbie many long years ago, and consider it part of the learning experience of the game. No, earthquake will probably kill more than it hatches and rarely hatches the one you want. No, if you bite an egg and it dies, it's not coming back. Ouch, there's a 24 hour penalty. We all learn from our mistakes and go on. Yes, it can be sad but learn and move on.

 

Sorry, no support. It's a very basic part of the lifecycles in the game.

 

I'm not seeing very strong reasoning here. I only see statements on how things currently work, with little connection between those statements and evidence of this idea not being good. The argument that "this is the way things are, so this is the way things should be" is circular and holds no water.

 

It wouldn't be a big deal for the revive action to be usable on eggs. The possibility of the action failing is enough to balance it out.

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Posted (edited)

30 minutes ago, KrazyKarp said:

 

I'm not seeing very strong reasoning here. I only see statements on how things currently work, with little connection between those statements and evidence of this idea not being good. The argument that "this is the way things are, so this is the way things should be" is circular and holds no water.

 

It wouldn't be a big deal for the revive action to be usable on eggs. The possibility of the action failing is enough to balance it out.

My point.

 

Actions have consequences. 

We either learn from our actions or we don't.

Death of eggs, either deliberately or accidentally, have consequences as a very basic part of the game. You or I either accept or deny the results, but changing the results means we are refusing to deal with the consequences of our actions. It changes the game, makes us less responsible for our actions. 

 

If I attempt to neglect or bite an egg, and it dies, that is one of the possible outcomes. I pay the price for my failure, learn from it, and go on.

 

If you don't understand this, I don't know how to make it any clearer.

 

Tl;dr: no support.

Edited by dragongrrl
Sp.

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@dragongrrl   While in general I completely agree with 'actions have consequences', that really doesn't make a lot of sense for this suggestion. This suggestion isn't something new and radical, it's just an extension of what we already have. We *can* already revive killed hatchlings and adults. We can kill them on purpose and still revive them. That's been a part of the game forever. Accepting the consequences of your actions is all well and good but that's simply not how the game works in many cases and trying to apply that to eggs when it's *not* applied to hatchlings and adults just seems arbitrary. 

 

It's not like this suggestion is radically going to change anything. Revive has a very low success rate as it is, you are still taking a fairly big risk regarding consequences. 

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PS

 

Revival's success rate is even lower than for successful zombiefication, no idea why anyone is so worried about the punishment aspect, it's still there:v
+even if that 1 of many eggs revives, you can't use the result as a zombie fodder, that's an extra punishment to egg's death that it doesn't currently have.

I hardly ever loose eggs I want, but I do conisder it weird that the revive action is this inconsistent - works for all except 1...

My only concern is trades, because as soon as the missing zombie subtypes are being introduced (and it's been quite a break now), I'm going to need a stock of fodders again, and I bet some will come from trades, I'd like to see some indicatior, as long as the dragon is still growing, that it can't be Revived anymore, so I don't end up with worthless not-fodders I or my family member paid sth valueable for. I mean, an indicator a 3rd party CAN see while the dragons is still on a trader's scroll. The game already recognizes those dragons, so...
(We don't need this now since revived hatchlings grow up within seconds=can't be traded with a random player, but with revived eggs, that's several days window to trade it. That's why some Trading-oriented indicator would be needed together with the Revival "expansion")

But the expansion of the Revive to cover eggs equally to the rest does not harm the punishment aspect, remember how riddiculusly low zombiefication chances are and keep in mind resurrection is even rarer. (I know what I'm saying, I have 110 Undeads + about3 overlooks I had to Expunge: https://dragcave.net/group/13377 It took several years of active trying to make them and I didn't limit myself to just 31sts. Revival IS significantly rarer than "Returns as a Zombie".)
The realistic advantage of Revival also working on eggs is hardly even there, Disintegration is the expected result, revival is just a rare happy accident.
No matter why you oppose this suggestion, it's NOT about punishment/consequences, sorry. Only one out of MANY tries will Revive, all the rest will disintegrate just like the others do.

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Posted (edited)

On 2/25/2021 at 5:44 PM, HeatherMarie said:

While my knee-jerk reaction is the same as some posts here, ie this should only be an option for accidental death and not from an action you specifically took..... Why not? If we are going to have a 'revive egg' option at all, why should it be restricted that way, when reviving hatchlings and adults aren't? I get the thinking behind that, but because we already do have this same mechanic for hatchlings and adults without restricting the 'whys', I don't see the logic in restricting the egg-revive that way. If it's because using a deliberate action like bite/etc comes with a risk and we shouldn't be able to avoid that risk, okay I get that, but the 'revive' we already have has such a small success rate that I feel like using that same mechanic/success rate for eggs would be fine and wouldn't necessarily be a loophole to avoid negative consequences. 

 

I'm fairly neutral on this suggestion, I can see why it would be wanted and why it could work in-game. I probably wouldn't use it, but I can't see any reason for it not to be an option.

 

I agree with this stand point and support the notation of having Revive added to eggs. 

 

As I was reading this fourm, my knee jerk reaction (as Marie put it) was to agree to only Revive the accidental and not intentional deaths. I was even in the midst of typing up why and explaining how it might devalue Vampires, because now there is Revive that can give you maybe 1 or 2 more chances to making an egg into a Vampire. 

But as I thought about it, do 1 or 2 chances more (Revive has a small chance of success so I am being optimistic here with the chances) really affect the value of Vampire or make the process easier? Not really, not by a big amount at least. And it is not necessarily avoiding the negative consequences either, because the chance to Revive in the first place is very low. So the negative consequence will still happen more frequently then Revive can.

 

I truly hope this gets added. I tend to have my eggs die to views for 2 different reasons. Either I fell asleep and views accumulated very fast over night, or I got busy cooking/shopping/running errands. 

 

I'd also like to add a little insight on the topic of scroll sitters. Even with multiple people watching over a scroll, eggs can still die. There is no guarantee in life, someone will always be busy at some point or another so you cannot always guarantee your eggs are watched/cared for unless it is guaranteed by you yourself. If you do have an amazing system that can watch your scroll 24/7, awesome.

But keep in mind, whereas there are scroll sitters, there are also people who do not have friends who play the game, people who do not want to bother others, or yet do not trust anyone to look after their scroll for them. So adding Revive, with or without scroll sitters considered; is a good idea for those times life just catches you off guard.

Maybe dragon cave went down for a day, but views kept going. Hey its a unlikely thing to happen but it can still happen to anyone! 

 

And to add to what @VixenDra said, I would be concerned for trades too. Maybe an indicator like "Last revived *date here*" just like the "Last bred *date here*" could work as the indicator? It would only change bred to revived... And would display the revived date instead of a bred date. That coding is already implemented in the game so reusing it as a Revive indicator could be easier and helpful for trades. It just needs a variable to ensure third parties can see the indicator. 

I do not understand what folders are but that is my offered solution for a indicator. 

Edited by LadyAngeliki

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