2021-02-17 - Abandoned Page Updates

[LadyAngeliki]

2 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

100% support. i don't much like walls, but I can easily wait them out.

Seems i can make an opinion on this.

 

After having heard quiet a few sides (not all but it seems a few have been vocal), I can conclude I am the opinion of not really caring about the walls. Yea it sucks if only one kind of dragon egg is there, but the cave is always open. So it dosen't really bother me. 

 

Although, I am happy to see TJ care for the game play of the game and making some adjustments. 

[Uther_Pendragon]

From my understanding, the changes weren't about eliminating walls at all, but to make them easier to punch through...and from my POV, they are! It's working! Looks like the times went down too? (Very curious how a concurrent wall(s) will look/work).

 

 

Kaini, for clarity's sake, as for me, I've always only spoken for myself, and my play style, and have only ever asked for a way to balance the ap, so it's not skewed toward one style of play for all day, to days at a time. I only started speaking up when we were having frequent, multiple long walls in a single day, over many days per week, or having extra long ones that lasted through a full second + day(s).

I have no issue with mass breeding, (I get the whys: ratios, ap time, rainbows, bsa, and so on), and I've always said I don't mind, and even enjoy, the shorter walls. I just asked for things to have a middle ground, for the way I use the ap, too.

 This change looks really good so far, and I'm quite pleased. (Now can we do ratios? 😆)
 

[HeatherMarie]

Honestly, I like the bigger walls simply because in my experience a larger mass-breed is more likely to have at least a few messies in it that I can grab! Of course that's not all mass-breeds, but I've noticed it has been easier for me to find good messies when a wall has been around for a bit. 

 

I've never seen mass-breeds as an issue or AP-walls as a problem, until it got to the point where there was one single breed walling the AP for over 24 hours. That was excessive. But even then, my frustration over this update has been more because I've seen (and argued about) so much of the complaining on this forum when it comes to walls, and I was excited by the idea that maybe this change would quite all that complaining and frustration (and breeder-blaming!) by making walls less of a pain for others. It's still too soon to see if it's really going to cut down on the amount of time a wall dominates the AP, but there have already been multiple different walls since the change. I'm crossing my fingers this will still turn out to be a positive change for the majority of users, even if it isn't at all the type of change people expected. 

[Kaini]

4 hours ago, Stormcaller said:

 

Kaini, please look at the posts again. People aren't complaining about the people who make walls; they are cooperating with TJs efforts to solve this problem.  The fact that TJ is doing this very thing is evidence that  the walls are interfering with some game play.   As a moderator your opinions carry a great deal of weight  but we all depend on you to be neutral on this matter and to avoid swinging the direction of the discussion one way or the other.   It's only fair...

 

(BTW, I think you are usually a really great moderator.  If I didn't think so, I would have kept my big mouth shut. 🤫)                                                                       

 

Ah, sorry if that was a bit much - I'll adjust my mod hat. 

 

My point was that it is great TJ is approaching this as a compromise for both parties. There seemed to be some confusion as to why he wasn't doing more or going further to keep walls from happening at all, which he clarified was not his goal. 

 

Mod hat off, I'm not a fan of this change, but I can see why it is happening the way it is. It just seemed like some expected more simply because of their own play style, and that's not fair. I meant to remind that we all play the game differently and one method is not inherently bad or done maliciously. 

[Stormcaller]

1 hour ago, Kaini said:

Ah, sorry if that was a bit much - I'll adjust my mod hat. 

 

My point was that it is great TJ is approaching this as a compromise for both parties. There seemed to be some confusion as to why he wasn't doing more or going further to keep walls from happening at all, which he clarified was not his goal. 

 

Thank you for having reconsidered and restated your opinion on this matter, Kaini.  Thank you also for not biting my head off for having posted such a rude comment to you.  You are truly a fair and excellent moderator.   😉

 

As one who has never made it a secret how much I dislike the walls, I am trying so very hard to be patient and reasonable about these changes.  It's my greatest hope that TJ can come up with a solution that will give us all a good chance to play the way we each like best.  

 

 

[random_dragon_collector]

8 hours ago, Kaini said:

 

I'm seeing a lot coming up in this thread that means essentially this and I wanted to say - this isn't true, and a small vocal minority of users here seem to think they're speaking for the majority.

 

I don't care. I don't care about walls. I like them because they push times down. If I don't like the eggs there, I do something else for a while.

 

People seem very hung up on the 'fact' that creating walls is 'trolling' or 'griefing' and inappropriate behavior that should be curbed. Not everyone agrees with this assessment, and acting like it just comes off as hateful toward people that enjoy walls or don't care.

 

TJ is attempting to make a change that satisfies both parties, not just one. That is the goal here - not eliminating walls because some of ya'll don't like them. You don't speak for everyone. It's difficult to balance a game like this, but it should be balanced and not just change to accommodate those who yell the loudest. TJ has access to numbers on the player base that we do not, and keep in mind a majority of players are not even on the forum to voice their opinion.

 

That all being said, let's remember in this thread that the first rule of the forum is to respect others.

 

Well stated, no wonder you are a moderator!  Point taken.

[Chaosdawn]

If neither side is really happy then it's a fair compromise. 

[Kaini]

1 hour ago, Stormcaller said:

 

Thank you for having reconsidered and restated your opinion on this matter, Kaini.  Thank you also for not biting my head off for having posted such a rude comment to you.  You are truly a fair and excellent moderator.  

 

Not rude at all

[kerrikins]

I just want to pop back in here and say that I have no particular animosity towards people who mass breed. I just think that there needs to be a balance between Person A's desire to breed as many dragons as they want and Person B's desire to see a variety in the AP. I think TJ sees that there needs to be a balance as well, and hopefully this change will help with that. 

 

I saw someone earlier worrying about being yelled at for breeding to the AP, and I don't think that's actually ever happened, not to my knowledge, anyway. If someone ever got a rude PM I'd certainly say it should be reported to the mods for review. But at the same time, I think people who don't like walls and find them frustrating should be able to say that without being shouted down. 

[Tish]

35 minutes ago, kerrikins said:

I saw someone earlier worrying about being yelled at for breeding to the AP, and I don't think that's actually ever happened, not to my knowledge, anyway. If someone ever got a rude PM I'd certainly say it should be reported to the mods for review. But at the same time, I think people who don't like walls and find them frustrating should be able to say that without being shouted down. 

I've heard from a couple people that this has happened and I have received some not so nice messages myself (I don't take these things too personally online so no harm done to me). It's definitely not the norm tho so that's good just a few bad apples 🤷‍♀️

[HeatherMarie]

1 hour ago, kerrikins said:

 

I saw someone earlier worrying about being yelled at for breeding to the AP, and I don't think that's actually ever happened, not to my knowledge, anyway. If someone ever got a rude PM I'd certainly say it should be reported to the mods for review. But at the same time, I think people who don't like walls and find them frustrating should be able to say that without being shouted down. 

 

Oh that definitely happens. Multiple massbreeders here on the forums have mentioned getting direct hate for it. 

While I 100% agree that people should be able to say they dislike walls, I don't really think that's ever been an issue? I haven't seen anyone saying users shouldn't be allowed to express dislike for walls, it's when users start *blaming* breeders and calling them greedy or malicious or implying that their playstyle is more important than others, that's when the arguing starts. Long drawn-out walls can absolutely be frustrating, but users should be directing their frustration at the mechanic itself and not at the other players who are simply trying to play the way they want too. 

[animatedrose]

Getting PMs declaring hate for someone over breeding 100% happens. Some of the bigger massbreeders tend to get name-dropped specifically to direct hate toward them. It happens, sadly, and it is so wrong. Look in any thread aimed at massbreeding. Guaranteed you'll find at least one massbreeder specifically mentioned and dog-piled on for their breeding. It's sad. And nobody can deny that it has happened.

 

That's why I fear breeding to the AP now. I have received messages like that. So have others. The ugly side to this loving community can easily be found right on public posts in this very forum. Far too many people express nothing but glee at hurting others or seeing their work destroyed in order to make themselves feel better (anyone remember the AP void incident? all the people declaring massbreeders deserved to have their eggs dying in there?). It's disgusting. It might only be a few bad apples...but those bad apples are rather vocal compared to all the good apples.

[Stormcaller]

49 minutes ago, animatedrose said:

Getting PMs declaring hate for someone over breeding 100% happens. Some of the bigger massbreeders tend to get name-dropped specifically to direct hate toward them...

 

That's why I fear breeding to the AP now. I have received messages like that. So have others.

 

That should not happen.  If it does, keep the PM and immediately report it to a moderator.  They will take the appropriate action against that person.  

 

[Tini]

It goes beyond hateful PMs, people viewbomb them in response, trying desperately to kill their stuff, which nobody can do anything about. scroll name change when

[LadyAngeliki]

1 hour ago, animatedrose said:

That's why I fear breeding to the AP now. I have received messages like that. So have others. The ugly side to this loving community can easily be found right on public posts in this very forum. Far too many people express nothing but glee at hurting others or seeing their work destroyed in order to make themselves feel better (anyone remember the AP void incident? all the people declaring massbreeders deserved to have their eggs dying in there?). It's disgusting. It might only be a few bad apples...but those bad apples are rather vocal compared to all the good apples.

 

Time for the good apples to be more vocal, I guess. Honestly I never knew of this incident and knowing it happened kind of has me shell shocked.

I understand the dislike toward mass breeders, but for me personally; I admire the mass breeders and all they do. Some mass breed BSA eggs and that gives new users easy access to getting Magi dragons, White dragons, Purples or even Pinks and that is good for them. Others mass breed to reset times on their dragons, or to expand the lineages. While others still mass breed so that others can obtain a nice lineage easier.

(These are just my guesses as I do not know why mass breeding happens but my optimistic mind likes to give the benefit of the doubt. These are also reasons I would personally adopt for myself if I ever become a breeder myself, as I have plans for big projects.)

Regardless of the rhythm or reason, I think it is important for DC to come together as a community and vocalize the good just as much as the bad so that a feeling of kindness and warmth can be felt between the peeps here who care about the game and about each other. (Not saying we don't already care, or that it is not shown; just that showing it more may help balance out the vocal bad apples.)

Just because we have a few bad apples dosent mean we cannot enjoy the apple pie. (Referencing apple pie as in the community.) We can still be a great community with the good apples we do have. ❤️

 

[Firefury Amahira]

41 minutes ago, Tinibree said:

It goes beyond hateful PMs, people viewbomb them in response, trying desperately to kill their stuff, which nobody can do anything about. scroll name change when

Can confirm. I've had to keep my scroll hidden for over a year now because of nonstop viewbombing in retaliation for my blacktip massbreeds. Apparently I was even on some sort of VB "hit" list offsite for awhile.

 

I mean, it COMPLETELY backfired on them since their attempts at "punishing" me for playing the game my way didn't discourage me and in fact made me that much more stubborn about doing it, but there are definitely toxic behaviors well beyond mere nastygrams via PMs.

[Fuzzbucket]

10 hours ago, Chaosdawn said:

If neither side is really happy then it's a fair compromise. 

 

That is SO true ! Nice one.

 

9 hours ago, kerrikins said:

I saw someone earlier worrying about being yelled at for breeding to the AP, and I don't think that's actually ever happened, not to my knowledge, anyway. If someone ever got a rude PM I'd certainly say it should be reported to the mods for review. But at the same time, I think people who don't like walls and find them frustrating should be able to say that without being shouted down. 

 

Nastiness and viewbombing DO happen to massbreeders. But as you see, many here are saying they don't like walls - and are not being harassed. yet.

[Stormcaller]

2 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Nastiness and viewbombing DO happen to massbreeders. But as you see, many here are saying they don't like walls - and are not being harassed. yet.

 

What do you mean by "yet"?   Are you calling the wall makers to harass the members who express their dislike of walls?   If so, please don't do that.  We need peace to resolve this matter, not open warfare. 

 

7 hours ago, ladyangeliki said:

Regardless of the rhythm or reason, I think it is important for DC to come together as a community and vocalize the good just as much as the bad so that a feeling of kindness and warmth can be felt between the peeps here who care about the game and about each other. (Not saying we don't already care, or that it is not shown; just that showing it more may help balance out the vocal bad apples.)

 

This is what we should strive for while we attempt to help TJ adjust the AP so we all become satisfied with it.

[Fuzzbucket]

No; it has just been my experience here that saying something like that is a surefire way to get bombed.... Just as posting in the "I'm being bombed" thread often starts it up big time.

 

I absolutely agree that a nice supportive community is the way to go.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Fuzzbucket

[bafleyanne]

I'll be the first to admit that I don't really understand why someone would enjoy doing a massbreed/wall, but that's not my personal playstyle and I'm never going to tell someone they shouldn't play the way they enjoy! Also I think it is horrible to harass someone or viewbomb their dragons just because they mass breed. People who are doing that, imo, need to have their accounts banned from here.

 

I've also loved grabbing some fun/pretty lineages off the AP. I got a GORGEOUS egg with alt sweetling lineage during the V-Day event and just yesterday I picked up a "Song that never ends" lyrical egg that made me laugh out loud!

 

In my opinion from what I have observed over the last several days since the change was made, I think the abandoner limit seems to be working well to keep a decent variety of eggs on the AP while still letting breeders do their thing. I don't know if it has been tested against any huge walls yet. (I think I heard there was a mint wall coming?)

Edited February 25, 2021 by bafleyanne

[Charu]

Wasn’t TJ cooking something up about viewbombing like 2 years ago? I’ve seen a some threads referencing something TJ said about it being very easy to detect but... it's just disheartening nothing was done about it. I've never been viewbombed except when I asked someone to help me with a ND experiment. The problem that people can just show up and viewbomb your scroll out of nowhere is sad. 

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Charu

[purpledragonclaw]

Since it's been over a week since this was announced, I'm going to close this thread. If anyone has any suggestions for how to improve or there are new changes they want to see made, please make a new thread in Suggestions/Requests.