2021-02-17 - Abandoned Page Updates

[MissK.]

1 hour ago, HeatherMarie said:

I'm curious to see if the higher-than-normal current AP times are because of this change or because we are still in 'post-holiday mode' and people just aren't breeding to the AP as much (though I do see posts here about massbreeds!). I have to admit if AP times become consistently 5d+ because of this change, it will make the AP a lot less fun and interesting. (I did post about this exact thing in one of the many suggestion threads before this change happened, that any big benefit with a change like this may be negated by higher times to the point where people don't want to AP-hunt anyways...) I'll be interested to see how the AP times measure up in the next few weeks.

 

Agreed. It would be a shame if times were consistently higher, I am really hoping it is simply the post-holiday period. 

 

12 minutes ago, InvaderAlexis said:

the only thing i'm still confused on is TJ's intent with this... to prevent one/a few people from completely dominating the AP and affecting how others play. i still dont... fully understand how that was the intent? with the explanation and the visuals that were given, i understand how helpful the change itself is now, but i still don't understand how it was doing exactly that  

 

Yeah, it seems like a limit per breeder would have been the obvious way to go if that was the goal. But I guess we'll have to see how it goes.

 

Can't wait to see what happens with the onslaught of mints. So much excitemint. 

[random_dragon_collector]

The only possible problem with the mint experiment is that 42 has so many cool lineages/parent names--might be few to no messies!

[Lady Dragoon]

Well, if you want some messes and the like I could breed my dragons, the only problem is that I don't have much of one breed of dragons.

 

Still I could breed all my holidays/BSAs/black/guardians/whatever.

[random_dragon_collector]

23 minutes ago, Lady Dragoon said:

Well, if you want some messes and the like I could breed my dragons, the only problem is that I don't have much of one breed of dragons.

 

Still I could breed all my holidays/BSAs/black/guardians/whatever.

 

No thanks!  I was just thinking that the experiment might go awry if everyone actually wants 42's eggs!

[Lady Dragoon]

11 minutes ago, random_dragon_collector said:

 

No thanks!  I was just thinking that the experiment might go awry if everyone actually wants 42's eggs!

Hah, gotcha.

 

(and yay, I don't have try to breed my dragons sweet.  )

[bafleyanne]

So I’m guessing the way the AP looks right now is more or less what TJ is going for? There’s 2 breeds dominating it and 2-4 eggs poking through of different breeds. This is a slight improvement over the wall of one breed in my opinion, but still not great.

[LadyAngeliki]

I just wish for a way to hide behind the wall of eggs. That could be fun, just hide behind the eggs and no one can see you mwahaha

 

[Charu]

16 hours ago, Falorni said:

This sums my thoughts almost perfectly;  obviously having a wall of something you don't want sucks and I sympathize with that, but the amount of borderline nastiness some people here seem to express at massbreeders for daring to play differently than you is quite something.

Unfortunately this isn't a new thing for DC. The nastiness and people calling sprites gross is what led to Frilled Dragons being removed once upon a time. 

 

... people haven't learned from that incident, clearly.

 

I haven't seen walls in the past day, but yesterday I did see a 2 breed wall. Which was kinda interesting to see. Ideally, we would see a varied AP all the time, but it's not possible all the time. I do agree that the mass breed wall you see should be limited. I'm worried about the AP times as well. If this is a side effect of the change, I would rather have the walls for a few hours or a day. Fingers crossed it's post-holiday craze. Hopefully 42's Mint mass breed will give us an idea on what this change entails. 

[Sketch]

Thank you to everyone massbreeding lately. Was able to pick up 3 CB Swallowtails that will all hatch overnight instead of in 2-3 days thanks to the lowered times. 

[soullessheartofsteel]

Spoiler

We're at full wall! I'm assuming this is from other people tossing eggs back, since the 12-egg limit is attributed to the last abandoner and not the first.

Edited February 24, 2021 by soullessheartofsteel

[FortyTwo]

I think the new change will work ok for smaller walls of about 50, maybe 100 eggs but I can't see it working for bigger walls like the oncoming mintpocalypse. I just can't. I look forward to seeing what happens. It's a balance between lower AP times and distributing a reasonable number of breeds at any one time + the wall to keep it moving.

[dragongrrl]

I've taken a few stabs a the frosty wall but may freeze a couple since I'm almost scroll locked with only one slot open for the hunt.

 

However, If it's 42's Mints showing up soon, I'm hoping my lock is gone by then. I need to start a second collection of 42 from 42.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I'm returning late to the party, but has there been any talk about switching from 24 eggs per ABANDONER to 24 eggs per BREEDER? The former is pretty easily manipulated imo. Anyone who wants to contribute to a wall continuing just has to pick up and dump a handful of eggs. Multiply that by a few people anddd you have a full wall again.

[steeve]

2 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

I'm returning late to the party, but has there been any talk about switching from 24 eggs per ABANDONER to 24 eggs per BREEDER? The former is pretty easily manipulated imo. Anyone who wants to contribute to a wall continuing just has to pick up and dump a handful of eggs. Multiply that by a few people anddd you have a full wall again.

 

there's been talk, but not by Tj. although he did lower it to 12 (2 rows) per abandoner. the AP is currently at a full wall again because of course it's fairly easy to grab and toss back 12 eggs... i don't think it's malicious, since i can easily grab that many just looking for fun lineages.

 

not that i'm hurt over it because i personally am in the minority who LOVE walls.

[soullessheartofsteel]

Don't worry, I don't think walls will be entirely gone no matter what we do. Even if TJ agrees to putting the display limit on the breeder, it'll just be something that takes a little more coordination and not a solo endeavor.

 

Also, since a few people mentioned that walls help lower AP times, I do wonder if the update would make it possible for wild dragons to breed to the AP again. I don't even know if that's still a mechanic that exists, but I'd love to see it. It's late where I am though so my thinking might not be entirely straight.

[Fuzzbucket]

45 minutes ago, soullessheartofsteel said:

I do wonder if the update would make it possible for wild dragons to breed to the AP again. I don't even know if that's still a mechanic that exists, but I'd love to see it. It's late where I am though so my thinking might not be entirely straight.

 

I think that was nixed for ever a while ago. And it's not as if players would have any control over it, anyway.

[MessengerDragon]

I'm somewhat puzzled that the limit is per abandoner, not per breed. Note, I say breed, not breeder - the main issue I've heard people having with walls is that they're all one breed, so making it guaranteed that some line/s can't be the same breed as the rest would solve that problem, right?

 

No particularly strong opinion on the update, just curious to see how this goes.

[ShorahNagi]

58 minutes ago, MessengerDragon said:

I'm somewhat puzzled that the limit is per abandoner, not per breed. Note, I say breed, not breeder - the main issue I've heard people having with walls is that they're all one breed, so making it guaranteed that some line/s can't be the same breed as the rest would solve that problem, right?

I think the hope is that, by restricting the number that one person's abandoned eggs can show - another breeders egg have a chance to show up. So for example

 

A - breeds 50 mints

B - breeds 5 red

C - breeds 10 white

 

So 12 of A's mints show, all 5 reds and all 10 whites show for B and C. Still allowing for a variety.

 

The only time this wouldn't lead to a variety would be an organized mass breed of the same two breeds [ex. A bunch of players team up and breed black x white - leading to the AP being filled with black/white eggs from all different breeders.

 

I feel, there would be no fair way to limit the breeds showing up...and even then, people would still complain about a surplus/lack of a breed on the AP [example: AP is changed to just 6 eggs of a breed allowed. That's great, except now we've just got a wall of 6 Celestials, 6 Blacktips, 6 mints, and 6 aethers that no one is touching*]

 

All that aside, it's nice to see that an effort is being made to tweak the AP.

 

*I personally like these breeds, I just picked them as they are the most recent 'wall' eggs I've seen

[Fuzzbucket]

2 hours ago, MessengerDragon said:

I'm somewhat puzzled that the limit is per abandoner, not per breed. Note, I say breed, not breeder - the main issue I've heard people having with walls is that they're all one breed, so making it guaranteed that some line/s can't be the same breed as the rest would solve that problem, right?

 

No particularly strong opinion on the update, just curious to see how this goes.

I want it to be per BREEDER, to get around the re-abandoning issue. Something like 500 individuals each breeding a mint at the same time isn't as much of an issue, to my mind.

 

55 minutes ago, ShorahNagi said:

I think the hope is that, by restricting the number that one person's abandoned eggs can show - another breeders egg have a chance to show up. So for example

 

A - breeds 50 mints

B - breeds 5 red

C - breeds 10 white

 

So 12 of A's mints show, all 5 reds and all 10 whites show for B and C. Still allowing for a variety.

 

The only time this wouldn't lead to a variety would be an organized mass breed of the same two breeds [ex. A bunch of players team up and breed black x white - leading to the AP being filled with black/white eggs from all different breeders.

 

I feel, there would be no fair way to limit the breeds showing up...and even then, people would still complain about a surplus/lack of a breed on the AP [example: AP is changed to just 6 eggs of a breed allowed. That's great, except now we've just got a wall of 6 Celestials, 6 Blacktips, 6 mints, and 6 aethers that no one is touching*]

 

Exactly this.

[Kaini]

On 2/22/2021 at 3:30 PM, Fuzzbucket said:

No-one really wants an AP containing only one breed - whatever the lineages are.

 

I'm seeing a lot coming up in this thread that means essentially this and I wanted to say - this isn't true, and a small vocal minority of users here seem to think they're speaking for the majority.

 

I don't care. I don't care about walls. I like them because they push times down. If I don't like the eggs there, I do something else for a while.

 

People seem very hung up on the 'fact' that creating walls is 'trolling' or 'griefing' and inappropriate behavior that should be curbed. Not everyone agrees with this assessment, and acting like it just comes off as hateful toward people that enjoy walls or don't care.

 

TJ is attempting to make a change that satisfies both parties, not just one. That is the goal here - not eliminating walls because some of ya'll don't like them. You don't speak for everyone. It's difficult to balance a game like this, but it should be balanced and not just change to accommodate those who yell the loudest. TJ has access to numbers on the player base that we do not, and keep in mind a majority of players are not even on the forum to voice their opinion.

 

That all being said, let's remember in this thread that the first rule of the forum is to respect others.

[Fuzzbucket]

4 minutes ago, Kaini said:

 

I'm seeing a lot coming up in this thread that means essentially this and I wanted to say - this isn't true, and a small vocal minority of users here seem to think they're speaking for the majority.

 

I don't care. I don't care about walls. I like them because they push times down. If I don't like the eggs there, I do something else for a while.

 

People seem very hung up on the 'fact' that creating walls is 'trolling' or 'griefing' and inappropriate behavior that should be curbed. Not everyone agrees with this assessment, and acting like it just comes off as hateful toward people that enjoy walls or don't care.

 

TJ is attempting to make a change that satisfies both parties, not just one. That is the goal here - not eliminating walls because some of ya'll don't like them. You don't speak for everyone. It's difficult to balance a game like this, but it should be balanced and not just change to accommodate those who yell the loudest. TJ has access to numbers on the player base that we do not, and keep in mind a majority of players are not even on the forum to voice their opinion.

 

That all being said, let's remember in this thread that the first rule of the forum is to respect others.

 

100% support. i don't much like walls, but I can easily wait them out.

[Stormcaller]

59 minutes ago, Kaini said:

I'm seeing a lot coming up in this thread that means essentially this and I wanted to say - this isn't true, and a small vocal minority of users here seem to think they're speaking for the majority.

 

I don't care. I don't care about walls. I like them because they push times down. If I don't like the eggs there, I do something else for a while.

 

People seem very hung up on the 'fact' that creating walls is 'trolling' or 'griefing' and inappropriate behavior that should be curbed. Not everyone agrees with this assessment, and acting like it just comes off as hateful toward people that enjoy walls or don't care.

 

Kaini, please look at the posts again. People aren't complaining about the people who make walls; they are cooperating with TJs efforts to solve this problem.  The fact that TJ is doing this very thing is evidence that  the walls are interfering with some game play.   As a moderator your opinions carry a great deal of weight  but we all depend on you to be neutral on this matter and to avoid swinging the direction of the discussion one way or the other.   It's only fair...

 

(BTW, I think you are usually a really great moderator.  If I didn't think so, I would have kept my big mouth shut. 🤫)                                                                       

[HangeZoe]

Is it ok to breed for the abandoned page? Also, what do things like “AP” mean?

[ADN6]

5 minutes ago, Gavvv24 said:

Is it ok to breed for the abandoned page? Also, what do things like “AP” mean?

AP is short for Abandoned Page. It's totally fine to breed for the abandoned page!  I love seeing different peoples' lineages and names in the dragons there, and I breed to it all the time (especially when I need to make more shards). There's no rule or anything against breeding to the AP, and if no one did it, the AP would be very empty. 

[Shakura Kazuki]

If I see a wall, I just go to the cave an grab whatever sounds good and abandon what I don't like later. 

 

Walls of greens, 6 or so years ago made me hoard them. And nowdays I enjoy seeing the occasional pebble at the AP or cave and grab them instantly!

I am, however not fond of the species that are "walling" right now 😕

 

But the walls also made me collect CB Sratos and other newer breeds which are fun to grab because they are pretty and abundant in the cave.

You just need to adapt I guess.