Jump to content
TJ09

2021-02-17 - Abandoned Page Updates

Recommended Posts

From the looks of it, I feel like it should be reduced further - or maybe even updated so that for certain eggs (celestials, for example) there is a limit of how many show. I don't want to stop people from doing mass breeds, but it's supremely frustrating when the AP is a wall of two different breeds the way it is at the moment. Especially when all of them are supremely messy. 

 

Edit: Ah, so apparently people are doing this to 'test' how it works? Ngl, I don't really see the point, why can't we just see how it works through natural behaviour rather than deliberately churning out zillions of messies and/or commons that people are reluctant to pick up? 

Edited by kerrikins

Share this post


Link to post

Right now, the AP is full of boring eggs of just two species. So how exactly did the changes improve the situation?

 

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, walkinslow said:

Right now, the AP is full of boring eggs of just two species. So how exactly did the changes improve the situation?

 

What's likely happened is that people are breeding to 'test' the AP (as you can see from discussion in the thread), and as people pick eggs up and decide they don't want them and toss them back, this is meaning that more and more of them are visible since now it's gone from 1 abandoner to however many who have abandoned them. 

 

Might need to have it changed to be per breed or per *breeder*, since that's actually the root cause of the issue. 

Edited by kerrikins

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, Sacred_DuskRose472 said:

 

So by your words, if a person bred only messies, or they bred 2g/3g checkers, there would be no difference? They're considered the same problem?

 

The issue is one-breed walls (or two-breeds), not the lineage. Because everyone plays differently, and everyone has a very limited number of eggslots, it doesn't matter what the lineages are, it's still going to block up the AP and frustrate people. Personally, I get *more* annoyed when the AP is filled with only boring 2gs rather than interesting/weird lineages! 

Share this post


Link to post

If I'm going to abandon a couple hundred z-fails, I try to make them sort of pretty, or pb, or something somebody MIGHT want!  The fifth, fourth, third gens will be a bit of mish-mash, but there's not that many of those!  I know I've bred 500 at a time before, though not lately--but there's a ton of "no interest" and "no egg" etc., so it wasn't nearly that many eggs.  Also--they all have named parents (and plenty of them sort of funny names), so there's that.  There a number of scrolls with more than one of my offspring with some pretty funny "not a z" names!

Edited by random_dragon_collector

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Stromboli said:

okay, i'm attempting to visualize this for my understanding. this is a hastily made visual just based on how i'm understanding the new mechanic, not necessarily actual behavior.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Say you have an abandoned pile: One user has bred and dumped a whole bunch of eggs, but only some of them are shown. The rest remain stacked behind the visible-eggs-per-abandoner limit. They're there, but only the top couple are visible.

1161376723_imaginaryAP.png.85336a70e7367e38732f118615812c76.png

 

Now, if a bunch of other users grab out of that stack, and re-abandon the eggs, whoever picked them up and re-abandoned them is now the "abandoning" user. These eggs don't go back into the breeder's stack, because they're now abandoned by someone else. Since they don't go back into the original stack, other things in the AP get forced back, which can create a wall.

 

1229311693_APwalled.png.f44956bfcdde6a2551cc6e22b68fa1cd.png

 

But we've still only got the top row of slots that are many eggs deep with the same person's bred eggs. so if someone else comes along and grabs from any of those other slots, then other non-wall things pop back in again. We may still end up with walls, but it's also easier for non-wall things to appear, since non-wall things only need to clear that thinner layer of re-abandoned eggs to start showing again, instead of waiting for the entire wall to move.

 

1976748050_APwallafter2pickups.png.49a185f0e16dafd9d808fb9139c66f18.png

 

 

 

I really like this visual. But I suppose my concern is that typically when I go to the AP there are some 30-50 players there. If they are all picking up eggs (brutes in your example)  from a wall just to re-abandon them repeatedly, how long does it take those 30 people to put those brutes three or four deep down on those 'open' bottom rows? Frankly it almost feels like TJ is saying "hey it's your own fault the AP is still full because you won't keep those unwanted eggs you pick up"

 

@Sacred_DuskRose472 

My concern is one or two people taking up the entire AP, leaving other players with little choice but to pick up their all eggs eventually. I don't like that, it feels like coercion, regardless of what the lineages are.

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, random_dragon_collector said:

 

Just give @Lagie time to clear her slots! :D

XD

5 hours ago, FortyTwo said:

Should the other smaller mint army owners I know breed theirs?

Feel free to ping me if you need some help with this.

Share this post


Link to post

It's honestly all of this fighting over "who gets the right to the AP contents" that makes me consider never breeding to the AP again. Someone will get mad at me for one reason or another, wander over to my PMs, and scream about how I dared to touch THEIR precious AP with my "garbage". I honestly am starting to feel like it's safer to just avoiding putting anything into the AP if I can. Nobody can scream at me if I don't participate.

Share this post


Link to post

Listen to be honest there is no way to get around AP Walls and Massbreeds. People will always find a way to massbreed things and usually it isn't to inconvenience other players. Doing so maliciously is actually a rare occurrence - one that I don't think I've ever heard of.
 Usually when players massbreed by themselves or with others it's done for a special event, for ratio reasons, or to help lower the AP times. Nobody is holding the playerbase hostage or coercing you into taking these eggs. If you don't want them, look elsewhere like the Cave itself, your own dragons, or the Trading Hub. If walls and massbreeds were removed somehow, you would end up with eggs almost at 7 days in the AP anyway. No more incuhatchables.
If you also want to try and press for limiting how many eggs come per breeder, you will still end up with group-massbred walls and it will screw up the pre-holiday breeding that a lot of people do to try and help others out.

I understand wanting to hunt CB eggs in the AP, but if you were to prevent massbreeding, you might as well just take an egg from the Cave. Most low-time eggs are only available after a wall or two have passed, and that's when I choose to hunt CB commons that I need. I'm very grateful for the massbreeds done by various users because I can focus on a project or something while the wall is up, or I can help clear it out. If you want nothing but pretty lineages and CBs, breed or catch your own because even if the AP becomes limited to so many per scroll or so many per breed, there will be messies and there will be things you just don't like. That's the way it is and there's no reason to get so bent out of shape over all of this. I personally am going to continue to participate in group massbreeds for birthdays, special occasions, and to reduce the AP time - also, because I want to. I want to breed these dragons and send them to the place where people send eggs that they want to breed, and I encourage everyone else to do it. Breed whatever you want, catch whatever you want, abandon whatever you want, play however you want but don't attack each other for disagreeing. It's Dragon Cave not Fight Over The Abandoned Page.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, GalacticSketch said:

Doing so maliciously is actually a rare occurrence - one that I don't think I've ever heard of.

Doing so purely maliciously would be a long, tedious slog of collecting and up to several hours of dedicated breeding for, what, trolling? If someone really hated DC or its players they'd just cheat or viewbomb like normal people lmao

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, Shadowdrake said:

Doing so purely maliciously would be a long, tedious slog of collecting and up to several hours of dedicated breeding for, what, trolling? If someone really hated DC or its players they'd just cheat or viewbomb like normal people lmao

I will be honest and admit that while not my primary motivator (that being "I ❤️ blacktips" + "Ogod the ratios are awful" and a dash of "Ew, AP times are gross"), spiting the people who were viewbombing me nonstop before I finally hid my scroll is a surprisingly helpful motivator when sitting down preparing for the several hour ordeal that is massbreeding nearly 2,000 blacktips. :P Which probably just goes to demonstrate that "punishing massbreeders via viewbombing will backfire horribly" more than anything.

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, Firefury Amahira said:

I will be honest and admit that while not my primary motivator (that being "I ❤️ blacktips" + "Ogod the ratios are awful" and a dash of "Ew, AP times are gross"), spiting the people who were viewbombing me nonstop before I finally hid my scroll is a surprisingly helpful motivator when sitting down preparing for the several hour ordeal that is massbreeding nearly 2,000 blacktips. :P Which probably just goes to demonstrate that "punishing massbreeders via viewbombing will backfire horribly" more than anything.

And sadly I've noticed that viewbombers target massbreeders or those in favor of massbreeding quite frequently. It's sad to see tishavara's scroll hidden when the Nocturnes come around - like come on, at least give props to them for sitting there and breeding for hours on end. My eyes ache just from breeding my ~500 hybrid pairs, it's amazing that you all can breed so many things.

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, kerrikins said:

What's likely happened is that people are breeding to 'test' the AP (as you can see from discussion in the thread), and as people pick eggs up and decide they don't want them and toss them back, this is meaning that more and more of them are visible since now it's gone from 1 abandoner to however many who have abandoned them. 

 

Might need to have it changed to be per breed or per *breeder*, since that's actually the root cause of the issue. 

 

Not one breed - that's affecting people who just threw one- blacktip - from a prizefail, for instance.  As well as people who had something auto and want help to find it. It needs to be per breeder.

 

6 hours ago, Lagie said:

XD

Feel free to ping me if you need some help with this.

 

I think to be a real test it needs to be a single breeder... a someone said a few pages back.

Share this post


Link to post

I think we need to sit back and see what the long-term effects of the change are before we say that it "needs" to be anything.

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, Keileon said:

I think we need to sit back and see what the long-term effects of the change are before we say that it "needs" to be anything.

 

Agreed. Only time will yield results, and with it, further discussion and opinions can be made as to what needs changing and what dose not.

 

As it is, I sit netrual with this topic. *shrug*

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Sketch said:

Listen to be honest there is no way to get around AP Walls and Massbreeds. People will always find a way to massbreed things and usually it isn't to inconvenience other players. Doing so maliciously is actually a rare occurrence - one that I don't think I've ever heard of.
 Usually when players massbreed by themselves or with others it's done for a special event, for ratio reasons, or to help lower the AP times. Nobody is holding the playerbase hostage or coercing you into taking these eggs. If you don't want them, look elsewhere like the Cave itself, your own dragons, or the Trading Hub. If walls and massbreeds were removed somehow, you would end up with eggs almost at 7 days in the AP anyway. No more incuhatchables.
If you also want to try and press for limiting how many eggs come per breeder, you will still end up with group-massbred walls and it will screw up the pre-holiday breeding that a lot of people do to try and help others out.

I understand wanting to hunt CB eggs in the AP, but if you were to prevent massbreeding, you might as well just take an egg from the Cave. Most low-time eggs are only available after a wall or two have passed, and that's when I choose to hunt CB commons that I need. I'm very grateful for the massbreeds done by various users because I can focus on a project or something while the wall is up, or I can help clear it out. If you want nothing but pretty lineages and CBs, breed or catch your own because even if the AP becomes limited to so many per scroll or so many per breed, there will be messies and there will be things you just don't like. That's the way it is and there's no reason to get so bent out of shape over all of this. I personally am going to continue to participate in group massbreeds for birthdays, special occasions, and to reduce the AP time - also, because I want to. I want to breed these dragons and send them to the place where people send eggs that they want to breed, and I encourage everyone else to do it. Breed whatever you want, catch whatever you want, abandon whatever you want, play however you want but don't attack each other for disagreeing. It's Dragon Cave not Fight Over The Abandoned Page.
 

 

I agree with all of this. I don't always enjoy walls but I DO enjoy low AP times. If the times creeped up to 6-7 days, I'd stop hunting in the AP. I'd rather grab CBs at that point. 

 

And I really don't agree with the anger of 'ruining the ap for others' against walls. If you (general you) don't agree with a playstyle, that's your opinion. It does NOT mean that playstyle is not valid or should be punished. All playstyles supported by this game are equally valid. 

Share this post


Link to post
40 minutes ago, Chaosdawn said:

 

I agree with all of this. I don't always enjoy walls but I DO enjoy low AP times. If the times creeped up to 6-7 days, I'd stop hunting in the AP. I'd rather grab CBs at that point. 

 

And I really don't agree with the anger of 'ruining the ap for others' against walls. If you (general you) don't agree with a playstyle, that's your opinion. It does NOT mean that playstyle is not valid or should be punished. All playstyles supported by this game are equally valid. 

This sums my thoughts almost perfectly;  obviously having a wall of something you don't want sucks and I sympathize with that, but the amount of borderline nastiness some people here seem to express at massbreeders for daring to play differently than you is quite something.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Falorni said:

obviously having a wall of something you don't want sucks and I sympathize with that, but the amount of borderline nastiness some people here seem to express at massbreeders for daring to play differently than you is quite something.

This. When I see a wall of all one breed, I groan inwardly and go elsewhere until it is gone -- sometimes sampling a few of the eggs for lineages or Z-codes along the way. But I don't get angry with the breeder. They are not breaking any rules and their play style is as valid as mine.

 

I am a little disappointed that this change to the AP display doesn't really seem to be working the way we thought it would, but I do also think we need to give it time and see how it actually works over time. So far the small walls that were created were very short-lived, so maybe it is working as intended. *shrugs*

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Keileon said:

I think we need to sit back and see what the long-term effects of the change are before we say that it "needs" to be anything.

 

What I meant was that to see how it works with a mass breed from one breeder - that mass breed needs to be from ONE breeder. I agree that the whole thing needs longer to bed in before it's blasted for not helping.

 

4 hours ago, Chaosdawn said:

 

I agree with all of this. I don't always enjoy walls but I DO enjoy low AP times. If the times creeped up to 6-7 days, I'd stop hunting in the AP. I'd rather grab CBs at that point. 

 

And I really don't agree with the anger of 'ruining the ap for others' against walls. If you (general you) don't agree with a playstyle, that's your opinion. It does NOT mean that playstyle is not valid or should be punished. All playstyles supported by this game are equally valid. 

Agreed 100%

Share this post


Link to post

954 mint eggs sent to the AP.

 

See you on the other side.

 

@Lagie Enjoy 😁

Share this post


Link to post

 

3 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

What I meant was that to see how it works with a mass breed from one breeder - that mass breed needs to be from ONE breeder. I agree that the whole thing needs longer to bed in before it's blasted for not helping.

 

Agreed 100%

I was referring to this;

 

9 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

As well as people who had something auto and want help to find it. It needs to be per breeder.

but fair point.

Share this post


Link to post

Oh - fair cop. But I do think the idea of trying to limit the number of a single breed would be a nightmare for everyone. The number dumped by one person, now - that's the big issue.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm curious to see if the higher-than-normal current AP times are because of this change or because we are still in 'post-holiday mode' and people just aren't breeding to the AP as much (though I do see posts here about massbreeds!). I have to admit if AP times become consistently 5d+ because of this change, it will make the AP a lot less fun and interesting. (I did post about this exact thing in one of the many suggestion threads before this change happened, that any big benefit with a change like this may be negated by higher times to the point where people don't want to AP-hunt anyways...) I'll be interested to see how the AP times measure up in the next few weeks.

Share this post


Link to post

Wholeheartedly agreeing with everything on this page. I have absolutely zero animosity towards massbreeders or people who breed messies. Everyone's playstyle is different, and they're not doing this to be malicious. Ultimately, DC is just a game and getting mad enough about it to insult real people over it is pretty messed up. Ideally we'll be able to find a way for everyone to enjoy DC without interfering with each other. I'll be totally fine with seeing a wall here and there, just because eliminating them entirely would probably break the game lol, and because there are plenty of other ways to get dragons on DC. It's only been a few days since the AP changes have been implemented and it's definitely way too early to reject anything. I am glad that TJ did this with a soft update with room for changes, because that's way better than just implementing something and throwing it at us.

 

@FortyTwo Thank you so much!!

Share this post


Link to post

i actually like walls on occasion, even though most of my time is spent hunting the AP for things that i like, and more often than not the walls are things that are undesireable to me. but still, i liked them, understood their purposes, even sent mini walls myself when i was frustrated with the ratios. (COME ON LABRAS!) 

 

the only thing i'm still confused on is TJ's intent with this... to prevent one/a few people from completely dominating the AP and affecting how others play. i still dont... fully understand how that was the intent? with the explanation and the visuals that were given, i understand how helpful the change itself is now, but i still don't understand how it was doing exactly that XD 

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.