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Quiustath

Dragon cave game

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Guys why don't we make a dragon cave game?

I'm talking about a smartphone action rpg based on dragon cave, with all lore and sistems of the site but in a interactive adventure. It shouldn't be so hard, i mean every year the comunity comes with a minigame o two, we have programers, screenwriters, and most important, we have artists who can develop content with a personality of our own.

Now imagine, a character(boy or girl) get a job to steal a golden dragon egg, but it hatches and he or she get stuck with the golden hatchling following it around. He or she gives up and adopt the hatchling and go in a adventure for whatever reason we can imagine further. The thing is we have the means to make something really good with what we already have in the site.

What you guys think about it?

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This gets brought up every now and then and while a great idea, just is not feasible, as usually the events are done free, and something larger and more labor intensive would be harder to do for free without earning something for it.

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This is entirely up to the site creator and the artists, and as such doesn't really belong in suggestions. But I will say it IS 'so hard'. The artists work tirelessly and for free each year creating these little minigames - it is a MASSIVE undertaking, and I believe you're greatly underestimating something like this.

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Also, mobile games especially are kind of a nightmare to make and test and are complete different animals from even a simple PC title, and iirc Apple at least was (at least when i last looked into it, which was admittedly a few years ago) an absolute pain to work with to get a game distributed.

 

I would strongly recommend trying to make a game of the kind you're thinking of yourself so you can understand the sheer scale of the undertaking you're asking.

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A little minigame embedded into a website is one thing.

 

Actually MAKING a game is an incredible undertaking that can take years, especially if no money is being made, and coordinating a large team is a nightmare. Making a game is very difficult, even if you're using a tool like RPG Maker to handle a lot of the work for you.

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1 hour ago, Sextonator said:

This gets brought up every now and then and while a great idea, just is not feasible, as usually the events are done free, and something larger and more labor intensive would be harder to do for free without earning something for it.

 

I get what you said and i agree totally, i believe time and effort are part of our lives and as such, invaluable. I wouldn't ask people to give it freely, just to invest it somewhere they're already part of.

Most indie developers today start only with their ideas and when it begins taking form they publish it on Kickstarter or Patreon and get the investments they need or even wait until the game start to sell to get their money.

Now the time isn't an issue, or i think isn't an issue i really don't know.

 

1 hour ago, Kaini said:

This is entirely up to the site creator and the artists, and as such doesn't really belong in suggestions. But I will say it IS 'so hard'. The artists work tirelessly and for free each year creating these little minigames - it is a MASSIVE undertaking, and I believe you're greatly underestimating something like this.

 

First let me explain something, when i say "isn't so hard" i m not trying to disrespect anyone or their work here on the site or out there, I'm saying it coulda be easier for people with some experience. And the minigames on the site are experience, from the puzzles to the programming it shows that it may be hard, but it is fairly  possible

 

And i understand what you said about where to discuss this but i really couldn't find a place where to discuss it on the forums, somewhere i could get the attention from TJ.

 

1 hour ago, Guillotine said:

Also, mobile games especially are kind of a nightmare to make and test and are complete different animals from even a simple PC title, and iirc Apple at least was (at least when i last looked into it, which was admittedly a few years ago) an absolute pain to work with to get a game distributed.

 

I would strongly recommend trying to make a game of the kind you're thinking of yourself so you can understand the sheer scale of the undertaking you're asking.

 

I admit i really dont know much about smartphone game designs but i was hoping with the experience and knowledge from you guys to understand this and that. Also i was thinking on using unity as a engine, a lot indie developers are praising it as more easy to handle.

Also i'm already working in a game myself all alone in my free time, right now I'm developing the art and graphics and i can already see the mountain in front of me, but as i said before it's hard, but not impossible.

 

20 minutes ago, Keileon said:

A little minigame embedded into a website is one thing.

 

Actually MAKING a game is an incredible undertaking that can take years, especially if no money is being made, and coordinating a large team is a nightmare. Making a game is very difficult, even if you're using a tool like RPG Maker to handle a lot of the work for you.

 

I understand it but we know time is not a problem and i really wish i could talk with the team behind the minigames to know their disposition on the site projects.

To tell the truth i really wanted to work with you guys on the site so you may know me better, but i find it hard to see where i could fit with you guys. Let me express my disposition on helping with anything.

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What you need to understand is first of all, I believe that the minigames here aren't exactly made by "the community". They're made by TJ and the artists on the site-- primarily programmed by TJ, with writing and art provided by the artists. They take monumental effort for maybe a few hours of play. They all give this effort freely to give the userbase something fun for the holiday events, and even doing this three times a year I'm surprised some kind of payment isn't demanded.

 

An entire game is a much different beast than a small minigame. I, too, am in the process of making a game-- just from developing art and "seeing the mountain in front of you" you can't really get a sense for just how much work goes into it. Art and graphics are one thing. This is different from map and level design. Then you need people to make music, which is an entirely different skill. Writing is its own beast, and entirely different from planning out storyline. Then you have to worry about game balance. This is different from eventually having to program everything in, which is usually a multiple-person job for larger projects. Actually, all of these are multiple-person jobs with large projects.

 

With a large game, you're almost guaranteed to have to have some sort of salary, because that amount of work doesn't usually come free if you want any amount of quality. A few people might be willing to work fueled by passion, but that tends to lead to motivation concerns and I've seen firsthand more than one project die because team members lost the motivation to continue working; they burned themselves out on it.

 

Then we come down to permission. If you're serious about this, asking TJ's permission directly (not in Suggestions, but in messages) should have been the first step. If there's money involved I can almost guarantee the answer is no.

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There's another thing no-one ever seems to consider. Quite a lot of us do not have smart phones. I don't, for one. There's no point my having one - there is no mobile signal where I live. Something like this instantly rules out many loyal players.I can't use apps - I play on a PC. And many who DO have smartphones have issues even with the games we have - look at some of the difficulties that showed up for those people playing the most recent game on their smartphones.

 

The other big thing is that many of us are here because the game doesn't have all these bells and whistles. It's quite and we can interact or not as we please. This fact comes up every time someone suggests fighting games, interscroll breeding, all sorts.

 

If you like making games - more power to you. But I really don't think we need them here. This place - isn't that sort of game, as you might say. Occasional Valkemarian ones are as far as we need to take it - even with the huge generosity and goodwill of the cave artists and TJ.

 

Quote

I understand it but we know time is not a problem and i really wish i could talk with the team behind the minigames to know their disposition on the site projects.

 

How do you mean -  "time is not a problem" ? TJ has a full time job, and as far as I know, most of our artists do. We are very lucky the find the time to do all that they already do.

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49 minutes ago, Keileon said:

With a large game, you're almost guaranteed to have to have some sort of salary, because that amount of work doesn't usually come free if you want any amount of quality. A few people might be willing to work fueled by passion, but that tends to lead to motivation concerns and I've seen firsthand more than one project die because team members lost the motivation to continue working; they burned themselves out on it.

 

Then we come down to permission. If you're serious about this, asking TJ's permission directly (not in Suggestions, but in messages) should have been the first step. If there's money involved I can almost guarantee the answer is no.

 

Thanks for the message idea i haven't though about that and no, i didn't plan it based on money but the payment matter apeared and i expressed my ideas.

To tell the truth i only wanted to go deeper on the world an lore.

 

Now the motivation issue we face everywhere, in everything, in our world.

I was an actor, i saw it before. I also saw games dying out like that and it's terribly sad. But i can't let motivation be in my way when i propose sonething to someone or else i wouldn't propose anything at all, never. If we fear that people would burn out their motivation then nothing move, and i don't like thinking like that.

 

13 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

If you like making games - more power to you. But I really don't think we need them here. This place - isn't that sort of game, as you might say. Occasional Valkemarian ones are as far as we need to take it - even with the huge generosity and goodwill of the cave artists and TJ.

 

 

How do you mean -  "time is not a problem" ? TJ has a full time job, and as far as I know, most of our artists do. We are very lucky the find the time to do all that they already do.

 

I got what you said about the limits, and yeah that souds nice. I really don't have any arguments against that.

 

And when i say time is not a problem i was talking about the game project, you see we haven't any deadline at all.

 

And about the smartphone idea was only an idea, the game could be on PC, why not?

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I wouldn’t want the artists to take on the monumental task of making a game that should entertain us for hours, for free, with no promise of compensation. That’s just asking for trouble. And even if they were promised pay, there’s too many variables for it to seem possible.

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2 hours ago, Quiustath said:

 

I get what you said and i agree totally, i believe time and effort are part of our lives and as such, invaluable. I wouldn't ask people to give it freely, just to invest it somewhere they're already part of.

Most indie developers today start only with their ideas and when it begins taking form they publish it on Kickstarter or Patreon and get the investments they need or even wait until the game start to sell to get their money.

Now the time isn't an issue, or i think isn't an issue i really don't know.

 

 

First let me explain something, when i say "isn't so hard" i m not trying to disrespect anyone or their work here on the site or out there, I'm saying it coulda be easier for people with some experience. And the minigames on the site are experience, from the puzzles to the programming it shows that it may be hard, but it is fairly  possible

 

And i understand what you said about where to discuss this but i really couldn't find a place where to discuss it on the forums, somewhere i could get the attention from TJ.

 

 

I admit i really dont know much about smartphone game designs but i was hoping with the experience and knowledge from you guys to understand this and that. Also i was thinking on using unity as a engine, a lot indie developers are praising it as more easy to handle.

Also i'm already working in a game myself all alone in my free time, right now I'm developing the art and graphics and i can already see the mountain in front of me, but as i said before it's hard, but not impossible.

 

 

I understand it but we know time is not a problem and i really wish i could talk with the team behind the minigames to know their disposition on the site projects.

To tell the truth i really wanted to work with you guys on the site so you may know me better, but i find it hard to see where i could fit with you guys. Let me express my disposition on helping with anything.

 

I've worked in the game industry, across console, PC, and mobile, for years. It takes years to create full-fledged games, even games that don't appear to be that hard from the frontend take a massive amount of work from the backend. 

 

1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

There's another thing no-one ever seems to consider. Quite a lot of us do not have smart phones. I don't, for one. There's no point my having one - there is no mobile signal where I live. Something like this instantly rules out many loyal players.I can't use apps - I play on a PC. And many who DO have smartphones have issues even with the games we have - look at some of the difficulties that showed up for those people playing the most recent game on their smartphones.

 

I am one of those users who don't have smartphones. I use my iPod for mobile needs.

 

1 hour ago, Quiustath said:

And when i say time is not a problem i was talking about the game project, you see we haven't any deadline at all.

 

Do you mean making a game based on Dragon Cave won't have a deadline? Oh no, a deadline would more likely than not be imposed. You can't float a new game idea without having a deadline or launch date in mind, that's how you create an angry fanbase, and that's how you lose a lot of money by not setting a schedule. Bethesda is currently experiencing the former after dropping a teaser for Elder Scrolls VI over two years ago and not providing a solid timeline or updates since. 

 

Like others said, I don't see a need for this. The games we play during the holidays flesh out the lore enough for me. I don't need a Five Nights At Freddy's experience here with multiple games to explain more backstory. 

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From reading this thread, it seems like the OP doesn't truly understand how these holiday mini-games on DC are actually made. *Volunteers*, that have lives and jobs outside of DC, spend a ton of their *free time* making all these different elements, from music to spriting to coding to writing and everything else. Look at a few of the holiday News threads over the years for a sense of how much *effort* goes into every single one of these little mini-games, that take maybe an hour or two to play, and that last one week out of the year. 

 

Personally I would feel it'd be very selfish of me to expect that those volunteers would even *want* to undertake an actual full-fledged rpg-type *game* that would require a *ton* more coding and time and effort than something that only needs to be playable for one week, not to mention the constant maintenance and bug-issues and fixes and all of that. DC has three holiday mini-games a year that take a *ton* of effort and time from a group of people that already have plenty of non-DC stuff to do, plus DC (usually) has monthly new releases with whatever coding and issues come with that. I can't imagine anyone who currently helps behind the scenes would be *able* to devote so much time and effort to a full-fledged rpg game like this without actual payment, which most likely isn't a possibility at all.

Edited by HeatherMarie

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2 hours ago, Quiustath said:

 

Thanks for the message idea i haven't though about that and no, i didn't plan it based on money but the payment matter apeared and i expressed my ideas.

To tell the truth i only wanted to go deeper on the world an lore.

 

Now the motivation issue we face everywhere, in everything, in our world.

I was an actor, i saw it before. I also saw games dying out like that and it's terribly sad. But i can't let motivation be in my way when i propose sonething to someone or else i wouldn't propose anything at all, never. If we fear that people would burn out their motivation then nothing move, and i don't like thinking like that.

 

If you are motivated to make games - by all means make them. But they really aren't needed here - we aren't in any danger of dying out.

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OP - do you have a background in game dev/design? Project management, music composition, UX design, scriptwriting, other related skills? I see folks have come at you pretty hard on behalf of the DC contributors (thanks guys c:) but I think some of that indignation is misplaced. If you HAVE game development experience I would love to hear about it.

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8 minutes ago, Marrionetta said:

OP - do you have a background in game dev/design? Project management, music composition, UX design, scriptwriting, other related skills? I see folks have come at you pretty hard on behalf of the DC contributors (thanks guys c:) but I think some of that indignation is misplaced. If you HAVE game development experience I would love to hear about it.

 

First of all thank you really much for the interest im hearing me out. And no, i don't have, i mean i *am* making a game on my own right now since the beginning of the year so maybe i *scratch* the surface of the iceberg. Oh and i was a play producer for ten years so i have some experience organizing stuff.

 

I think i understand what you guys are trying to say, we have something here that is nice the way it is, theres no need to change it. I respect that and as i said before i really don't wanna disrespect anyone or their art here, i m sorry if my idea seemed like that it wasn't on purpose. It's just that i really wanted to give form to the inspiration this site brings me. But oh well, we have to try right?

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23 minutes ago, Marrionetta said:

If you HAVE game development experience I would love to hear about it.

 But answer me one last question. If i was more experienced and had a better curriculum, would you be more willing to give me support?

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I appreciate your enthusiasm for DC and the potential for a fuller game, but if something like that were to happen, IMO the push would have to come internally, with any additional team building being done due to skills people had to offer rather than a simple desire to contribute. Speaking as one of the coordinators for the Halloween game, it takes a lot of work to create something of even the scale of a VT installment, and coordinating it takes at least some understanding of the requirements for different aspects of the game and how they interact with each other. I just don't think community-sourcing a game is the best route to creating something like this, and I also have reservations about the legality behind it, given the way permissions currently work for DC.

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Setting aside all the time, effort, coding, etc. that goes into developing ANY game:

 

I personally don't see how Dragon Cave could be adapted into a game beyond something like Pokemon [as at the end of the day, DC is about collecting (and your suggestion of being a boy/girl who gets a gold dragon as a traveling companion even sounds a lot like Pokemon Yellow (forced to have Pikachu as your partner))]

 

The mini-games here are meant to be just that: Mini-games meant to amuse you for a couple hours, not a full fledged epic adventure. They're fun, but once you beat them and see everything (again, something that can be done in a couple hours)...there's not much point to them.

 

Honestly, if I had to choose anything for a DC game...I'd rather have the once suggested archive of the past event mini-games here on site to play [love me some mana alchemy] than a stand-alone game based on what limited elements DC has

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