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Get Rid of Name Exclusivity

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Name exclusivity:

> lets people to have names be "special" for their uniqueness

> easy dragon linking

> demands "creativity" to find unique combinations

 

Name non-exclusivity:

> lets many people to have the same name regardless of their personal connection to it

> allows people to name their dragons quickly

> lets new members "own" once-exclusive names and returning old members who lost their names forever ago retake names they lost

 

 

Name exclusivity is workable, but I think making them non-exclusive would simply benefit so many more people, "significance" notwithstanding. Sometimes you just want something short, not appended with three other words.

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26 minutes ago, Shadowdrake said:

Name exclusivity:

> lets people to have names be "special" for their uniqueness

> easy dragon linking

> demands "creativity" to find unique combinations

 

Name non-exclusivity:

> lets many people to have the same name regardless of their personal connection to it

> allows people to name their dragons quickly

> lets new members "own" once-exclusive names and returning old members who lost their names forever ago retake names they lost

> lets you have the same name over and over without alerting you to the issue.

Added a point. 

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30 minutes ago, olympe said:

Added a point. 

 

Are you saying that as a 'pro' or a 'con'? The phrasing, 'without alerting you', sounds like you think it'd be a bad thing, but some of us would *deliberately* name multiple dragons the same exact thing (lyrical lineages is just one example). Of course the issue itself could be bypassed with a simple intermediate step in naming, a 'this name is already on your scroll, do you wish to continue?' or somesuch. Or, if people actually want to make sure they don't use duplicate names, they can check themselves before naming (I literally do this before using names that 'seem familiar' to me, just open a small group and use the adding filter to check to see if that name is already on my scroll). 

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30 minutes ago, olympe said:

Added a point. 

You can easily use the group filter to check for name dupes if that's an issue. Personally, I don't find it a problem. And if it's the only reason not to support non-exclusive names, then why not have TJ revamp the warning system (where it gives you X if the name is taken) to only check your scroll for the name and provide a ! warning that you've used the name before, without preventing you from using it?

 

I'm still strongly in favor of nonexclusive names. It's been over a decade since DC started, and there are thousands upon thousands of dragons out there now. I want the ability to use names that oftentimes sit on dragons on scrolls long unused, but I don't want to "steal" the name from someone who might someday come back to DC. Nonexclusivity would give me that opportunity.

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Naming dragons the same thing isn't by default an "issue." Sometimes it's intended and there is (should be) nothing wrong with that. I've seen some concerns with that regarding inbred checking and not wanting to go offsite, but you don't have to go offsite for it - hover your mouse pointer over dragons in lineage view and see the code in the bottom left corner and compare with the rest in the lineage. On mobile you can usually longpress or click, check url, use back button.

 

Maybe it's annoying, sure, but the options are indeed there, and I don't even think going offsite to allure or something is necessarily unreasonable.

 

I'm tired of having to have ugly spaced out names where I wanted the regular versions in my fandom pairings, but those regular versions are locked behind exclusivity, either because folks don't want to trade (entirely fair), or they're on dead scrolls, or dead dragons, or whatever else. I'm tired of the text wrapping making those ugly spaced out names have ONE LETTER on the second line in lineage view.

I'm tired of seeing song lineages where the names have weird spacing because they have to.

 

The novelty of claiming a taken name wears off pretty quick, and I don't think the "this name was [someone/something] special to me" is great reasoning to justify exclusivity - there are many people with the same names, many of whom are significant to others. Why can't the two people with the dads named Steve both have a dragon named just plain Steve? The only significance is to the owner of the dragon anyway.

 

I don't want to be creative all the time with names. I want my weirdo fandom names and lineages. Lack of name exclusivity doesn't mean name creativity stops, but it will open up name options for people who just don't want super extra creative names with five words and ten spaces and text wrapping into next year.

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2 hours ago, olympe said:

Well, names can still be made unique with other methods. You want to name your dragon "Bob" after your deceased father? How about...

  • My Dad Bob
  • Bob Best Father Ever
  • Bob Daddy of the Year/Decade/Century/Millenium
  • Daddy/Dad/Papa/Pa/... Bob (Whatever you actually called him)
  • In Memoriam Bob

And so on and so forth. You might add your Bob's middle initial for customization. For further customization, add the initial of the family name. Or use slightly creative spelling. Bobb, for example. Or B'ob, Bo'b or even B'o'b. A different nickname if applicable - Bobba, Bobby, whatever.

 

Combine these methods, and you'll get your memorial dragon for your dad named Bob - and the name even expresses more than the mere given name - your relationship to Bob and probably even what you think of him. You can further add to the memorial by describing your dragon. There are countless options, if you're willing to put in the effort. What you probably won't get is a dragon named merely "Bob" - but how much significance is in a common given name?

Hey you know a common name, both fandom and irl, I'd love to be able to use? Jasmine, she was a dog I used to have. She was a mutt so I can't get fancy by tagging on some breed or anything like that (not that I'd want to, frankly), and I hate the 'in loving memory' kind of stuff, I just want to name a dragon after my dog. Her brother was Ozzy which I'm pretty sure I have even less of a chance of ever getting. Every variant one could think of for either of those names was probably snatched up in 2008. And I'm not going to sit here and misspell my dogs name, which I consider use of s p a c e s or ' to be as well.

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Regardless of the straws people who are against this grasp at, it's very clear from posts here that eliminating name exclusivity benefits the majority of users.

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On 10/23/2020 at 10:32 PM, Tinibree said:

Hey you know a common name, both fandom and irl, I'd love to be able to use? Jasmine, she was a dog I used to have. She was a mutt so I can't get fancy by tagging on some breed or anything like that (not that I'd want to, frankly), and I hate the 'in loving memory' kind of stuff, I just want to name a dragon after my dog. Her brother was Ozzy which I'm pretty sure I have even less of a chance of ever getting. Every variant one could think of for either of those names was probably snatched up in 2008. And I'm not going to sit here and misspell my dogs name, which I consider use of s p a c e s or ' to be as well.

Well, add a descriptor. I tried exactly four times, each one a success. If you'd like to take one of those for yourself, let me know:

 

Edited by olympe

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I think you're missing the point. The goal isn't to figure out how to maneuver around exclusivity, which is rather annoying to do to begin with for many people. It's to eliminate exclusivity for a multitude of reasons discussed in this thread that benefits many, many users.

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31 minutes ago, KrazyKarp said:

I think you're missing the point. The goal isn't to figure out how to maneuver around exclusivity, which is rather annoying to do to begin with for many people. It's to eliminate exclusivity for a multitude of reasons discussed in this thread that benefits many, many users.

 

That's your goal. It isn't everyone's. Just saying.

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1 hour ago, KrazyKarp said:

I think you're missing the point. The goal isn't to figure out how to maneuver around exclusivity, which is rather annoying to do to begin with for many people. It's to eliminate exclusivity for a multitude of reasons discussed in this thread that benefits many, many users.

I think that argument goes both ways. There's my side, which says that exclusivity is fine and you can find countless ways around it if the name is taken, and that exclusive names have their benefits. And there's your side, which says that only this exact name [insert your name of choice] will do, and nothing else, and every other argument pales in comparison. 

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Are there any real gameplay advantages to name exclusivity? Genuine question. Putting aside 'sentimental/personal names' for a moment simply because that is completely subjective to one or a few specific users, are there any actual *gameplay* advantages? Anything in the game itself that is easier or better through name exclusivity? The only thing I can really think of off the top of my head is easier/faster way to get to your dragon if you don't remember the code (but do remember the *exact* spelling/spacing of the name, which isn't always the case either), by typing the actual name into the /view url. Anything else? I'm legitimately trying to find unbiased gameplay reasons here, not completely subjective things like 'special names' and 'creativity'. 

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Players should not be forced to add extra words, spaces, numbers, misspellings, or anything else to names, though - why should we be? "Add a descriptor" isn't really helpful (or an option) when all you want is a simple, one word name (which is how all my holidays are named, but it gets harder and more annoying and more keyboardsmashy every year). Forced workarounds aren't a benefit, they're a nuisance.

 

Exclusivity doesn't force creativity. It forces misspellings, number-letter replacements, extra spaces, etc. Unless your intent at the beginning was to include those things in a name, that's not creativity - that's "I have to because there aren't any options left for what I actually want." Which is definitely how I feel...and I've fielded more than one breeding request to explicitly avoid spaced out names on the parents.

Exclusivity isn't, and doesn't, prevent fakes of famous dragons. 

Exclusivity actively discourages some players from naming altogether, or puts enough barriers in their way that they give up.

Exclusivity hurts lyrical lineages. Many, many songs have a repeating chorus, which results in lineages in which the names have odd spacing, misspellings, numbers replacing letters, etc. It also functionally limits a song to only one player, because there are only so many ways a lyric can be broken up and claimed and spaced and whatnot.

 

The significance of a name is limited to the person who named it that. There are thousands of people named Jessica; there are certainly different Jessicas who are significant to different players, so why is only one person allowed to name a dragon Jessica? Certainly the significance of a Jessica to one player doesn't trump the significance of another Jessica to a different player. Players shouldn't have to misspell the names of loved ones or other significant people/places/things.

 

Exclusivity is a barrier and it would benefit many of us to have it removed.

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it's been repeated here already but i stand by the idea that players should not have impacts on how other players name their dragons. frankly i don't think it should be anyone else's business what i name my dragons, the same way it's no one else's business whether i perform literally any other action to a dragon on my scroll. yet the actions of other people, who i never interact with on site in any way, prevent me from making a very simple change to any given dragon i own. why should names be so exceptional here?

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3 hours ago, olympe said:

I think that argument goes both ways. There's my side, which says that exclusivity is fine and you can find countless ways around it if the name is taken, and that exclusive names have their benefits. And there's your side, which says that only this exact name [insert your name of choice] will do, and nothing else, and every other argument pales in comparison. 

It’s not always that only this exact name will do, but there are limits to how far someone’s willing to go to get a name that works. A causal player might not have the energy to try for a forced unique name if they want to name a dragon.

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I've been mostly neutral to the suggestion itself throughout the discussion and only bringing up points to counter weak arguments or to help smooth out problems, but I'm officially stating support for this suggestion now. I've seen almost no points in favor of exclusivity throughout the entire thread that don't ultimately boil down to simply "I like it this way", "here's a solution you didn't ask for", or "changing it makes things slightly less convenient for me".

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20 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

Are there any real gameplay advantages to name exclusivity? Genuine question. Putting aside 'sentimental/personal names' for a moment simply because that is completely subjective to one or a few specific users, are there any actual *gameplay* advantages? Anything in the game itself that is easier or better through name exclusivity? The only thing I can really think of off the top of my head is easier/faster way to get to your dragon if you don't remember the code (but do remember the *exact* spelling/spacing of the name, which isn't always the case either), by typing the actual name into the /view url. Anything else? I'm legitimately trying to find unbiased gameplay reasons here, not completely subjective things like 'special names' and 'creativity'. 

 

Finding your dragon without having to see a load of other dragons with the same name

 

Instantly being able to see if a line is inbred

 

If you might find more than one - being able to be sure who owns a dragon if their scroll name is hidden on the dragon's page - this can be very important. If this had been the situation ages ago, and I had found three hollies named Santa with the lineage I needed and unwittingly picked Cheeze's - my line would now be ruined. I would therefore want in future to avoid any line with Cheeze's dragons in it. That's a biggie (yes OK - never use another player's dragons. But that's a sad line to have to take. Co-operative lines are usually fun.)

Edited by Fuzzbucket

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26 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

Finding your dragon without having to see a load of other dragons with the same name

 

This seems to be addressed by making your own dragons show up at the very top of the proposed search function page.

 

27 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

Instantly being able to see if a line is inbred

 

This is solved by displaying codes, which is no harder to check than names with the same phrase but different spaces/spellings (easier even, I would say). And if it's a long lineage it's impossible to tell "instantly" anyway.

 

28 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

If you might find more than one - being able to be sure who owns a dragon if their scroll name is hidden on the dragon's page - this can be very important. If this had been the situation ages ago, and I had found three hollies named Santa with the lineage I needed and unwittingly picked Cheese's - my line would now be ruined. I would therefore want in future to avoid any line with Cheese's dragons in it. That's a biggie (yes OK - never use another player's dragons. But that's a sad line to have to take. Co-operative lines are usually fun.)

 

I don't see how this would be much different. Unless you know the owner personally in which case they can verify it is or isn't the right dragon, you are entirely dependent on them either showing their scroll name, or at least not having their scroll hidden so you can check that the dragon is on it. Each dragon still has a unique identifier - with name exclusivity you search for the name, without name exclusivity you search for the name and glance at the code. 

 

Personally I've been very on the fence about this because I am apparently one of the few people who enjoy the challenge of grabbing unique names. It absolutely becomes difficult with time, but I still manage to get some good ones to this day and it feels great every time (e.g. I shocked myself by getting Blimey in 2018, and Morgan Stark a while after Endgame was released). However other than my entirely subjective feeling of joy at managing to find things that don't need misspellings to be used, I can't say there's any reason that name exclusivity is good on the whole in a game that keeps expanding without any means of "recycling" old ones (I was also on the fence about old names being wiped or not but that's a different matter). So far I haven't seen any arguments in this thread that convince me that name exclusivity is positive in the grand scheme of things, so though I would personally miss it, I can't logically be opposed to this suggestion.

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11 hours ago, MissK. said:

I don't see how this would be much different. Unless you know the owner personally in which case they can verify it is or isn't the right dragon, you are entirely dependent on them either showing their scroll name, or at least not having their scroll hidden so you can check that the dragon is on it. Each dragon still has a unique identifier - with name exclusivity you search for the name, without name exclusivity you search for the name and glance at the code. 

Find the code - it still won't tell your the scroll. I would want to avoid any dragon from Cheeze ever being in any line of mine. Santa would not longer be an issue - Cheeze killed him :( But if Cheeze owned "All the Elves" and I knew that - and there were 17 other CB dragons by that name, 4 of them the same breed, and Cheeze's scroll was hidden, so I couldn't check the codes that way.......

 

Quote

 

Personally I've been very on the fence about this because I am apparently one of the few people who enjoy the challenge of grabbing unique names. It absolutely becomes difficult with time, but I still manage to get some good ones to this day and it feels great every time (e.g. I shocked myself by getting Blimey in 2018, and Morgan Stark a while after Endgame was released). 

 

I too like finding ways around it.

Edited by Fuzzbucket

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1 minute ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Find the code - it still won't tell your the scroll. I would want to avoid any dragon from Cheese ever being in any line of mine. Santa would not longer be an issue - Cheese killed him :( But if Cheese owned "All the Elves" and I knew that - and there were 17 other CB dragons by that name, 4 of them the same breed, and Cheese's scroll was hidden, so I couldn't check the codes that way.......

 

 

But that requires somehow knowing for sure that the dragon with that name is on that person's scroll, which you can't if the scroll is hidden. Sure they might have had a dragon with that name, but renaming is very much possible, so right now you absolutely can't be sure of anything either unless you can view their scroll or their name is displayed. I'm not disputing that you've used this method at some point of course, just saying it takes a lot of assumptions so it's an extremely niche use.

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9 hours ago, Sundew said:

it's been repeated here already but i stand by the idea that players should not have impacts on how other players name their dragons. frankly i don't think it should be anyone else's business what i name my dragons, the same way it's no one else's business whether i perform literally any other action to a dragon on my scroll. yet the actions of other people, who i never interact with on site in any way, prevent me from making a very simple change to any given dragon i own. why should names be so exceptional here?

This so much! 

Other ideas or function have been 'put down' because you 'don't get to interfere with how someone else is playing their game' yet naming is getting in the way of my play stile! (And many other's)

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That's my point though. If I know a dragon - the only dragon with that name - belongs to a specific person, I can avoid anything with that name in its line (and we do often know names - people often post how proud they were to get them...)

 

If there are 7 "All the Elves" CB Hollies - I may not be able to see whose is whose.

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Again, with renaming there is 0 certainty. I could rename Hypnotizing today for someone else to nab it for another prize, and nobody would know. People even trade for rare names. 

 

On a different note, if this does happen I agree there should be a notification about a name already existing on our own scroll, things might get confusing otherwise and I'm sure it's not much different from the existing name filter.

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But isn't that the whole point of hiding your scroll? People to not know if a dragon belongs to you?

I see your method as a rather exploit of an accident (ex bragging with new derg) rather than intended mechanic, case in which it certainly has no weight on the matter. (Not to mention that Blitzen and BIitzen can be 2 diffrent dragons and the 'instant tell' disapears)

And that is the case for Cheese, but what about tag surnames like Terafreaky has? I could name just now a dragon 'Cloud Terafreaky' and you'd think it belongs to them! 

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1 hour ago, camelia2 said:

but what about tag surnames like Terafreaky has? I could name just now a dragon 'Cloud Terafreaky' and you'd think it belongs to them! 

 

I think that would be appalling of you. Just like people creating fake Thuweds. But yes, people are tacky at times.

 

Tag surnames are a very good reason for NOT allowing this.

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