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Infinis

Get Rid of Name Exclusivity

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but what i dont want to be creative, maybe i want the name "antares" and not "mal's antares", "a    n    t    a    r    e    s", "antares694201337666", or "xX antares Xx"

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“Creativity” isn’t that strong of an argument. Sure, in some cases exclusivity spurs creativity, but in others it doesn’t and just spurs things like spaces between letters. You can’t generalize it across everywhere, hence why some are saying it limits creativity, and others are saying it helps. Creativity is also highly subjective so there’s that, too.

 

Exclusivity or not, there’ll people out there with creative names. And there’ll be people out there with uncreative names. So I’m not sure why it’s even being brought up because it’s not even applicable to this.

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I agree that "exclusivity spurs creativity" is not a strong argument. You could say it affected creativity if, say, Antares is taken so you name your dragon Antarean Sunburst instead. However, the exclusivity of the name Antares didn't cause that. Your desire not to call your dragon x Antares x caused that. Exclusivity is purely neutral in its effect and only limits access to names. Your takeaway from that is where creativity comes in.

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51 minutes ago, olympe said:

Actually, exclusivitiy does the opposite of limiting creativity, it spurs it. My daugther once wanted to name a dragon 'Blackbird'. Not surprisingly, the name was taken. So, she resorted to "Blackbyrd", which, for some reason, was still available. Creative spelling, spacing, hyphenating, apostrophing, prefixes and suffixes are always an option. You just have to get creative in order to succeed.

 

Exactly this.

 

21 minutes ago, Odeen said:

I agree that "exclusivity spurs creativity" is not a strong argument. You could say it affected creativity if, say, Antares is taken so you name your dragon Antarean Sunburst instead. However, the exclusivity of the name Antares didn't cause that. Your desire not to call your dragon x Antares x caused that. Exclusivity is purely neutral in its effect and only limits access to names. Your takeaway from that is where creativity comes in.

 

This too. I also realise it may not be a strong argument for some - but it is for me. And it does make people have to be a bit creative.

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I don't agree with prioritizing creativity across all players, which I think is what this argument is trying to do by enforcing a specific naming system: "I don't like this style of names so I do not think players should be able to name their dragons in this way." I don't think it's important to make that a priority for other people's names and I'm confused by the argument that it is, since DC is generally an independently played game with a player emphasis on "you can do whatever you want with your own dragons."

 

Also like.. I do lyric lineages and exclusivity is a negative there. I mentioned before that only one person can do a song, and anyone who wants to also do that song has to mess up how it is displayed. And yeah, they could choose a different song, but what if their idea for dragon breed and lineage shape is better than mine, and they could have made a more creative version of a lyric lineage that I've already taken for everyone? People don't just let names sit on their scrolls, we also breed them together in impactful ways to create poetry and song lyrics, and creativity for those types of lineages is absolutely limited by exclusivity. Creativity here isn't an argument that's consistent with the idea that everyone should do what they want with their own dragons and dragon names, and is also not something that exclusivity universally improves in the first place.

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2 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I also realise it may not be a strong argument for some - but it is for me. And it does make people have to be a bit creative.

 

It's not a strong argument because it's false; there's nothing opinionated about it being strong or weak. There are cases disproving that it encourages creativity, and also cases that disprove it limits creativity, so you can't claim it true one way or another.

 

If we have name exclusivity, there are creative names. And there are uncreative names.

 

If we don't have name exclusivity, there are creative names. And there are uncreative names.

 

Nevermind the fact that some people just don't care to be creative. So even if it was a valid argument, forcing creativity on others through exclusivity is bad. And also the fact that creativity is subjective causes issues in the argument, too. Like I said, I'm pretty neutral to this idea in general for me personally, but I really want to emphasize there's too many logical flaws in the creativity argument, to the point where I'd argue it's even off-topic.

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I wouldn't mind if names were no longer exclusive and I definitely prefer it over freeing up names by removing them from inactive scrolls, because to me removing names kind of seems a bit like a punishment, even when that's not the intent. "Stealing" names seems more subtle than simply removing all names from inactive scrolls, so I think I wouldn't really mind that either, but personally I'd still prefer the removal of name exclusivity.

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1 hour ago, Sundew said:

I don't agree with prioritizing creativity across all players, which I think is what this argument is trying to do by enforcing a specific naming system: "I don't like this style of names so I do not think players should be able to name their dragons in this way." I don't think it's important to make that a priority for other people's names and I'm confused by the argument that it is, since DC is generally an independently played game with a player emphasis on "you can do whatever you want with your own dragons."

 

It's not the style of names. It's the fact that they are unique and you can use the /n/ link to find an individual creature, not a shedload of ones called Ringp Starr or whatever.

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6 hours ago, olympe said:

Actually, exclusivitiy does the opposite of limiting creativity, it spurs it. My daugther once wanted to name a dragon 'Blackbird'. Not surprisingly, the name was taken. So, she resorted to "Blackbyrd", which, for some reason, was still available. Creative spelling, spacing, hyphenating, apostrophing, prefixes and suffixes are always an option. You just have to get creative in order to succeed.


This doesn't fit my personal definition of creativity and seeing names taken discourages me personally. I'm glad your daughter had a great experience with this, but I personally haven't, and I can imagine other users have been similarly discouraged.

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My only real concern - and it's not a limiting factor in the end - is what happens to lineages. At the moment you can usually tell at a glance if something is inbred; in future people may be effectively "forced" to use tools to tell.

 

But that's really not going to stop me from supporting this suggestion. I've got nearly 7000 grown dragons at this point, most of them successfully named (without 'surnames' or workarounds), but about a hundred of them and change exist only to hold onto names I don't want anyone else snatching up. That doesn't seem like good gameplay? That seems like the symptom of a problem to me. Sure, I'm proud of the names I do manage to snatch, but miffed that it comes at the cost of no one else being able to use those names.

 

Sometimes finding names is just a source of stress. I'm glad when there's a release I'm only lukewarm about, then I can just "generate" names from the dragons' codes and throw in additional vowels or consonants until something sticks. Simple, effective, but not very loving. I have a process for finding names for other releases, but it's getting less and less effective, presumably because other people have started using the same process. :P

 

The only names on my scroll I find myself truly enjoying exclusivity for are the names of characters in a novel I wrote - it's nice to have "control" over those names. But that's an edge case and I'm happy to give up that privilege.

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7 minutes ago, pinkgothic said:

My only real concern - and it's not a limiting factor in the end - is what happens to lineages. At the moment you can usually tell at a glance if something is inbred; in future people may be effectively "forced" to use tools to tell.

 

Just edit lineage view to something like this:

 

name2.PNG.79bfe6864fc5f029479a12d8523ba368.PNGname1.PNG.53ef21cd781ce356ee2bee6821a4cef0.PNG

 

This isn't perfect and was really quick and dirty, but I think it gets the point across: accommodating both name and code isn't too terribly difficult.

Edited by Commander Wymsy

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9 minutes ago, Commander Wymsy said:

Just edit lineage view to something like this:

 

name2.PNG.79bfe6864fc5f029479a12d8523ba368.PNGname1.PNG.53ef21cd781ce356ee2bee6821a4cef0.PNG

 

This isn't perfect and was really quick and dirty, but I think it gets the point across: accommodating both name and code isn't too terribly difficult.

...heck yeah, lovin' it. :) Thanks for the mock-up!

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I am for this but on a limited scale. Prize and Spriters Alts should be left as is

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13 minutes ago, Commander Wymsy said:

Just edit lineage view to something like this:

 

name2.PNG.79bfe6864fc5f029479a12d8523ba368.PNGname1.PNG.53ef21cd781ce356ee2bee6821a4cef0.PNG

Hey neat, I like that.

 

Also Prizes and SAs keeping unique names is quite unfair and honestly I highly doubt it'd happen if exclusivity is eliminated. If that's what you mean.

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51 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

It's not the style of names. It's the fact that they are unique and you can use the /n/ link to find an individual creature, not a shedload of ones called Ringp Starr or whatever.

I use view/n/ all the time and I still want names to stop being exclusive. I even trade for names, and I still want exclusivity to be yeeted into the abyss. The person who traded me Pantera took it originally because they wanted it, and traded it to me for something they wanted a little more...but we should both be able to have the name. 🙂 

 

I suck at remembering codes. It's why I use view/n/. But I'm also adaptable and would rather search a list of all dragons with that name rather than be stuck with exclusivity, or even maintain offsite documentation like a spreadsheet or word doc than keep exclusivity. I don't want to have THE s e p h i r o t h, I want everyone to have a sephiroth name if they want. and I feel bad that @Syiren feels guilty about taking names they want when they are a fan too (pls don't feel guiltyyyy). 

 

The "victory" of claiming a name, or trading for it, wears off pretty quickly in my experience. It's just another name on a scroll with more than 11,000.

 

As for creativity, I don't want to be forced into creativity or uniqueness, and honestly I don't always want that for my dragons. Sometimes ya girl just wants to name a dragon Steve Irwin, but is stifled by exclusivity. 😞 

 

1 minute ago, Rekha said:

I am for this but on a limited scale. Prize and Spriters Alts should be left as is

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "limited scale?" Also, prizes and SAs are player owned and we could change those names any time, even now, so I'm not...really sure what you meant by the specific inclusion of prizes and SAs. I don't want my SAlts or cb prize to be rendered un-rename-able... ;w;

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2 minutes ago, KrazyKarp said:

Hey neat, I like that.

 

Also Prizes and SAs keeping unique names is quite unfair and honestly I highly doubt it'd happen if exclusivity is eliminated. If that's what you mean.

Why do you feel that is unfair? Those are special dragons and should live on forever. And I am talking original not their offspring.

 

@Infinis I mean that someone else can’t take a name that is in use of of prizes or spriters alt. If the owner decides to change names go for it.

Edited by Rekha

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100% support to end name exclusivity. Why was it even a thing in the first place? Any "charm" it brings to the game is, in my opinion, massively overshadowed by the frustration of having to sit there and go through name after name after name until you find one that's not taken. It's not fun. Games should be fun and this ain't it.

 

3 minutes ago, Rekha said:

Why do you feel that is unfair? Those are special dragons and should live on forever. And I am talking original not their offspring.

 

I mean that someone else can’t take a name that is in use of of prizes or spriters alt. If the owner decides to change names go for it.

 

As a prize owner... why? The prizes and alts still get to keep their names. Doesn't make them any less special that other people use their names. I agree with Infinis, that limitation would be unfair to the rest of the playerbase.

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21 minutes ago, Commander Wymsy said:

Just edit lineage view to something like this:

 

name2.PNG.79bfe6864fc5f029479a12d8523ba368.PNGname1.PNG.53ef21cd781ce356ee2bee6821a4cef0.PNG

 

This isn't perfect and was really quick and dirty, but I think it gets the point across: accommodating both name and code isn't too terribly difficult.

 

Oooh i love this, this would be useful right now actually, because some names Are super similar and hard to tell at a glance for inbreeding. I'm not sure we need an unnamed at the top, cause I feel like someone has to have that as a name lol.

 

I don't find it creative to change an i to a y, I find it frustrating first and disappointing whenever I come across the name again.

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1 minute ago, Tinibree said:

 

Oooh i love this, this would be useful right now actually, because some names Are super similar and hard to tell at a glance for inbreeding. I'm not sure we need an unnamed at the top, cause I feel like someone has to have that as a name lol.

Unnamed is in italics, which signals that it's not a named dragon. A simple visual cue, and I really love Wymsy's mockup!

 

8 minutes ago, Ziranos said:

As a prize owner... why? The prizes and alts still get to keep their names. Doesn't make them any less special that other people use their names. I agree with Infinis, that limitation would be unfair to the rest of the playerbase.

I'm seconding this, also as a prize owner. I see no reason to keep specific dragons' names exclusive. If the concern is "faking", well, it's impossible to fake CB salt or a CB prize, they're clearly CB by lineage or by appearance. And Thuweds that are bred are always marked with "verified Thuwed", so faking can't happen there, either. There's no need for those to remain exclusive.

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It's basically impossible to counterfeit spriter's alts and/or CB prizes.  I definitely don't see any reason to give them special name-claiming rights.  Looks like me saying this would just be redundant.

 

I like the idea of allowing duplicate names.

 

(Well, technically, my very first gut reaction is to object, but when I think about it more logically, I like it.)

Edited by Pilauli

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I've already posted several times in this thread, but I want to state support of the lineage mockup!

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50 minutes ago, Rekha said:

Why do you feel that is unfair? Those are special dragons and should live on forever. And I am talking original not their offspring.

 

@Infinis I mean that someone else can’t take a name that is in use of of prizes or spriters alt. If the owner decides to change names go for it.

Uhm, can you give me one singular reason why SAs and Prizes should have special treatment?

Why should everyone be allowed to name their dragon "Midas Dorkface", but not "Penk"?

And, uh, what would happen if a Prize owner decided to name their Prize "Midas Dorkface"? Would all other dragons lose that name then? Or would it just be impossible for more players to claim that name? Either way, we'd just have to wait for the first people to name their Prizes "Bob", "Starscream" or "Shakira".

Edited by olympe

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1 hour ago, Commander Wymsy said:

Just edit lineage view to something like this:

 

name2.PNG.79bfe6864fc5f029479a12d8523ba368.PNGname1.PNG.53ef21cd781ce356ee2bee6821a4cef0.PNG

 

This isn't perfect and was really quick and dirty, but I think it gets the point across: accommodating both name and code isn't too terribly difficult.

Meh. That would ruin my cool lineages with the similar named dragons as it would give away the illusion right away:

https://dragcave.net/lineage/cFTq3

https://dragcave.net/lineage/AV8nn

 

But in earnest - I wouldn't actually object. And Cayvyn is unique anyway - people could try what they want, they would never come close :P (And I could finally name dragons Blackfire and Infinity and several other names that are taken right now.)

 

Edited by Astreya

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Maybe it could be a toggle option to show the codes. I like the mockup for short stuff but, it would start getting messy looking on lyrical lineages, or just longer ones in general that start shrinking the tiles down.

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Weighing in on the Prize/SAlt issue: there is literally no reason to make their, and only their, names unique. You can't exactly make a fake SAlt or a fake CB prize. If I want to name some random Aria "Penk" then there shouldn't be an exception for that, full stop. Either make all names unique or none.

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