Get Rid of Name Exclusivity

[dragongrrl]

 

10 minutes ago, Dragonalassa said:

Only one of those precludes others from freely interacting with their dragons the way they want. That's the key issue.

No, two of those, lineage creations and naming are both affected by imposing such a change.

 

9 minutes ago, Sextonator said:

Not everyone can trade for a name, and no one has any right to a dragon name at all.

 

Nabbing a name now might push you to be creative, but that doesn’t work for everyone. And it feels like it implies that coming up with something that is already taken is uncreative, which is untrue. Just because someone has thought of a name already doesn’t mean someone else is uncreative for coming up with the same name.

 

I have 6500 dragons gathered over the past 10 and a half years, 500 of those since the first fo this year. 248 are currently unnamed including about 200 of my Codetalkers. There are so many good names still available for anyone to get.

 

And the fact that I can grab a name that someone else thinks has value in trade just means that I can have something of value, even if I can't grab or even see a rare in the Cave. The last name trade got me a CB Green Copper, and I never see them in the Cave anymore.

[Sextonator]

That still does not work for everyone. And what constitutes a good name varies person to person. You might have been able to trade for a name, but not everyone can find a name they’re willing to trade for, or can come up with something valuable enough to trade for a name they want.

 

And with name exclusivity removed, I’m sure we’ll see lots of new interesting lineages, not everyone would make the same thing with the same names laid out in the same way.

[Tini]

Creativity is highly subjective. Some people consider Tr4vis a creative name, others don't. I really wish that argument would stop cropping up. What helps one persons creativity hurts another's, and that goes for all things, not just dragon names. Neither side is going to change their mind on if Tr4vis is a creative name.

 

I'm on the side where if I can't name a dragon, I give it another stab or two, and then give up, because it's just not worth it, and so thousands of dragons remained unnamed. 

[Stormcaller]

6 hours ago, Dragonalassa said:

I'm sorry but imo the "be more creative" argument has stopped holding water once writing descriptions (making dragons unique is the exact purpose of descriptions) was dismissed as being too much effort. It comes off as saying "no, not that kind of creativity."

 

Writing descriptions really is too much effort for some of the members.  For example, those who are not native English speakers, and many who are who just never did excel in grammar.  This kind of writing is a cultivated skill that, I'll venture to say, most people don't have.  I know, there are people who will pick your writing apart and fix things but this might take a fairly thick skin to get through.

 

1 hour ago, Tini said:

Creativity is highly subjective. Some people consider Tr4vis a creative name, others don't. I really wish that argument would stop cropping up. What helps one persons creativity hurts another's, and that goes for all things, not just dragon names.

 

No it doesn't!  How could Tr4vis, which I do consider creative, possibly hurt another person?

 

Names have always been exclusive to the first person who uses them and I believe it should stay that way.  Let me give you an example why.   I've made an 8th generation Harvest lineage based on the topic of Farms. I consider it a major creative project and I'm proud of it, humble as it might really be. I would be very unhappy if someone else was able to copy all or part of it using whatever means might become available.  Notice that I don't just mean the individual names here, but the body of work my creativity has made them become.  I don't believe I'm the only one who is similarly protective of the creative work they have accomplished. 

 

[schenanigans]

13 minutes ago, Stormcaller said:

Names have always been exclusive to the first person who uses them and I believe it should stay that way.  Let me give you an example why.   I've made an 8th generation Harvest lineage based on the topic of Farms. I consider it a major creative project and I'm proud of it, humble as it might really be. I would be very unhappy if someone else was able to copy all or part of it using whatever means might become available.  Notice that I don't just mean the individual names here, but the body of work my creativity has made them become.  I don't believe I'm the only one who is similarly protective of the creative work they have accomplished. 

 

 

Can I ask what the difference would be if someone copied the exact lineage now with only an extra space between words or letters? 

 

In regards to creativity and naming, I have character names I came up with and backstories for them and they're short. I have a character from D&D named Paks. Not a creative name but my head canon for her is creative. But I can't take just that name. And we, once again, approach an already discussed topic: "just give her a title. Just add something else to her name. Just give her a surname." I don't want to do all these things. Because my Paks doesn't have these things. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

I DO play this game for creativity. I like making nice lineages. I like to do art, and DC has inspired me to do more of it. But on this side of the fence I don't see names grouped into that, is all I'm pointing out. 

Edited March 23, 2021 by schenanigans

[GalacticNovie]

21 hours ago, dragongrrl said:

No, two of those, lineage creations and naming are both affected by imposing such a change.

I... Don't know where this refutation came from. I said, currently names being exclusive are keeping others from doing as they please with their dragons unlike any of the other examples you listed. Describing a dragon doesn't keep others from describing their own dragon. Creating lineages doesn't keep others from creating their own lineages. Naming a dragon DOES keep others from naming their own dragons in many cases. You're arguing against a completely different point.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Dragonalassa

[Sextonator]

@Stormcaller I believe Tini means that while name exclusivity can make people more creative, other people stuggle and feel limited with what they can do, which is why the creativity argument is weak.

 

And just because you have a farm based lineage doesn't mean someone else can't. Ideas cannot be copyrighted. If I wanted to make my own, it'd be fine. There'd be nothing wrong with it. Would I use the same names? Maybe, probably. Would I use them the same way? Probably not. You might think ABCDE makes sense, but maybe BCADE or ABEFJ makes better sense to me. And maybe I've never seen your scroll, maybe I have no idea someone else had the same idea. That's ok. It happens.

[Stormcaller]

1 hour ago, schenanigans said:

Can I ask what the difference would be if someone copied the exact lineage now with only an extra space between words or letters? 

 

I'll have to admit that I wouldn't be too happy with that either, but I'm not advocating against the possibility of it either. 

17 minutes ago, Sextonator said:

@Stormcaller I believe Tini means that while name exclusivity can make people more creative, other people stuggle and feel limited with what they can do, which is why the creativity argument is weak.

 

That might be so, but why should some people be responsible for the creativity, or lack of it, of others?  It's hardly fair to assume that it was easy to name every dragon that has a name by now.  I doubt that I'm the only one who has sometimes found coming up with names less than easy, if not clearly difficult.  

[Sextonator]

It is NOT uncreative to be unable to create names under name exclusivity. Not everyone can think under pressure! That can be a very harmful way of thinking.

[ShorahNagi]

I'll admit creativity is not so much a factor (to me) in the argument of name exclusivity.

 

I currently have 322 unnamed dragons out of 3,500+. 99% of these unnamed ones are simply because they grew up before i had a chance to name them, and forgot about them until now/haven't had a chance to sit down and name them.

 

I will admit it would be faster and easier if I could just sit down and name them Dakota, Alex, Red, Charlie, etc. But those names are taken, so now I need to take a little longer and think of what to add to them, or how to corrupt spelling/use symbols in a way that doesn't annoy me [I prefer uniform names like "99 Pies" or "Guardian of Nature" as opposed to names like "G l i t t e r" or "7r4v1s"]

[Sextonator]

@Stormcaller After thinking about it, I could also certainly say that names made with name exclusivity are uncreative and just grasping at straws to make something unique and passable. But it is NO ONE’S place to judge others based on standards that vary person to person. To place your personal ideals about what is and is not creative on others is, again, harmful. It is perfectly fine for people to come up with the same name because ideas cannot be copyrighted.

[GalacticNovie]

Not gonna lie, implying that people who don't like name exclusivity are too uncreative to come up with new names is incredibly disrespectful, especially considering how several artists are in favor of (heck, an artist STARTED this entire thread!) removing exclusivity.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Dragonalassa

[HeatherMarie]

The creativity argument is old and completely disproven as universal. If having name exclusivity makes *you* feel more creative, that's wonderful! That does *not* mean it makes names more creative across the board, or makes other users feel more creative, or *doesn't* negatively affect other's creativity. I think we all need to stop acting like creativity is something totally objective and rigid. Different people are creative in different ways, some people can't or don't like to draw but love to write, some people make beautiful paintings while others make music. Creativity is inspired by different things in different people. Saying name exclusivity encourages creativity is an *opinion* that may hold true for *some* users but certainly not all! And not liking name exclusivity has nothing to do with a user's creative ability and it's really surprising anyone on a *pixel sprite* collecting site would think so.

[KrazyKarp]

The creativity argument was logically disproved pages ago, like most arguments in favor of exclusivity. Not sure why it's still being brought up. I suggest people who think exclusivity and creativity have a generalized relationship read some earlier pages. I speak for many of us when I say we're tired of arguments that have been thoroughly disproved are continuing to come up. There are certainly some opinion/personal feelings things still going around, which of course is going to be part of any suggestion and don't have the kind of closure more logical arguments have. But stop bringing up things things that have been disproven, please.

 

15 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Arguments don't stop holding water just because an alternative has been suggested that doesn't fill the bill for those you disagree with.

True! People tried pointing this out to others saying just a d d s p a c e s or "pull out a dictionary" or "try other variations of a name" but many people in support of name exclusivity tried to claim that arguments do stop holding water when alternatives are suggested that doesn't fit the bill for those you disagree with. (for the record, I don't know if you specifically were part of this Fuzzbucket, so this may not be directly applicable to you)

[Infinis]

I don't think me being an artist has anything to do with this...I made this thread out of frustration because I was trying to get fandom names for dragons and found them constantly taken. I've had to settle for ugly spaced out names more than once, so here we are.

 

I guess I don't understand the creativity argument, because not having exclusivity doesn't stop anyone from being creative. There is literally nothing barring anyone from making the creative names they want without exclusivity, except for the overall length and character restrictions. Your creativity doesn't...just stop because a restriction is lifted. By no longer forcing workarounds, you can be creative in the way you want to be by actually getting names you want. Additionally, I don't feel like my names are "creative" so much as they are increasingly keyboardsmashy, particularly in response to avoiding repeating names I've already taken myself on previously grown dragons. My creativity is better spent on art than it is on trying to find combinations of consonants and vowels that haven't been taken.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Infinis

[Keileon]

I want to mention that being creative doesn't necessarily mean you will find a unique name. I would argue that, for example, the name "Ethershard" is creative, but just because I put it on a dragon first doesn't mean the next person is any less creative. Conversely, I JUST named a dragon a couple of days ago "Vayr", because I was typing something else and saw that that tiny 4-letter name was still available-- that isn't creativity, that's just chance.

[MissK.]

9 hours ago, Stormcaller said:

That might be so, but why should some people be responsible for the creativity, or lack of it, of others?  It's hardly fair to assume that it was easy to name every dragon that has a name by now.  I doubt that I'm the only one who has sometimes found coming up with names less than easy, if not clearly difficult.  

 

Looking at the same thing the other way around, why should anyone's creativity be limited by name exclusivity? As you say yourself, it can be difficult to name dragons sometimes with the current system, which sucks the fun out of it for a lot of people. 

 

1 hour ago, Infinis said:

I guess I don't understand the creativity argument, because not having exclusivity doesn't stop anyone from being creative. There is literally nothing barring anyone from making the creative names they want without exclusivity, except for the overall length and character restrictions. Your creativity doesn't...just stop because a restriction is lifted. By no longer forcing workarounds, you can be creative in the way you want to be by actually getting names you want. Additionally, I don't feel like my names are "creative" so much as they are increasingly keyboardsmashy, particularly in response to avoiding repeating names I've already taken myself on previously grown dragons. My creativity is better spent on art than it is on trying to find combinations of consonants and vowels that haven't been taken.

 

1 hour ago, Keileon said:

I want to mention that being creative doesn't necessarily mean you will find a unique name. I would argue that, for example, the name "Ethershard" is creative, but just because I put it on a dragon first doesn't mean the next person is any less creative. Conversely, I JUST named a dragon a couple of days ago "Vayr", because I was typing something else and saw that that tiny 4-letter name was still available-- that isn't creativity, that's just chance.

 

Exactly these. Creativity is highly subjective in the first place, and it is certainly not determined by whether a name is available in a dragon petsite or not. Nor does it make sense to call a name creative at 10:10 when I take it, and not-creative at 10:11 when someone else tries it and it is not available. With names being exclusive, some people might be encouraged to be more creative by their own standards, while some other people are barred from using names they personally consider creative. Without name exclusivity, people wouldn't be barred from using whatever names they like, but as Infinis said nothing changes for the people who still want to come up with more unusual names. Especially if there is still an indicator to show if a name is original at the time it is used, which I personally still support.

[wobster109]

I sort of feel that name exclusivity is part of what Dragon Cave is fundamentally about, as a game. Without going into whether it's good or bad or right or wrong, Dragon Cave is about grabbing stuff before someone else. Refreshing a page for many hours to get a specific egg (that now someone else can't have). The same arguments about how allowing other people to reuse names doesn't diminish anyone's freedom or creativity, while they're true, it's also true that allowing everyone to pick up CB golds whenever doesn't impact your own scroll goals. But it does change something about how the game is played.

[GalacticNovie]

See I think that analogy falls a bit flat since it's not like once someone grabs that CB Gold, there can't ever be any more CB Golds. It might take a while but another one will spawn again. Or heck, maybe you can save up and buy one from the market. You've got options when it comes to collecting dragons. With names it's either you can have it or you can't.

 

Or if you're referring to codes specifically, then well... Codes are already unique, and they're a necessity given how all these dragons need to be identified by DC's database in some way. Why have a second unique identifier on top of that? It's simply redundant.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Dragonalassa

[Tini]

The analogy half-works if its about codes instead, but even then they can pop up again later. aGold vs bGold vs Goldc or other caps on five letter codes.

[HeatherMarie]

2 hours ago, Dragonalassa said:

See I think that analogy falls a bit flat since it's not like once someone grabs that CB Gold, there can't ever be any more CB Golds. It might take a while but another one will spawn again. Or heck, maybe you can save up and buy one from the market. You've got options when it comes to collecting dragons. With names it's either you can have it or you can't.

 

 

Agreed. Names are all-or-nothing and they are the only thing that is. Sure, DC is about grabbing an egg first... But you can always grab the *next* egg of that very same breed. We also now have the Market, and the holiday biomes, as further proof that there are multiple ways to get *that exact breed*. Thousands of users can get those CB Golds, maybe not at the exact same time but they *can* get them. Names don't work like that. Once a name is taken, *no one* can get it ever (unless that taken name is then changed). 

 

DC used to be very big on exclusivity, including CB Prize dragons from old raffles that no one had any access to anymore and CB holidays that were *only* available for 1-3 days and then *never* again. DC has changed in both those respects. I see name exclusivity as a part of that; DC used to favor exclusivity in multiple significant ways, and no longer does. Why is it still clinging to this specific instance of exclusivity? 

[GalacticNovie]

27 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

CB Prize dragons from old raffles that no one had any access to anymore and CB holidays that were *only* available for 1-3 days and then *never* again. DC has changed in both those respects.

Let's not forget the time where Bright Pinks and Frills weren't obtainable in any way for several years. Now Frills are back and the Bright Pinks were reworked into the Arias.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Dragonalassa

[Whirlaway]

I agree with Dragonalassa and HeatherMarie on the difference between taking a name and taking an egg from the biomes. There will always be another CB to grab, even the rarest of them like the Stats or Golds, but there is no chance to get a name once it is taken. Like Infinis, I want to name my dragons after characters from animes, books and games, but they are already taken and I will not use spaces or substitute in other letters/words to get something close to a name I'd like. 

 

On the topic of using the /n/ to search for names of my dragons, I've never personally used /n/ to find my own named dragons. I use groups or Fertility to find my dragons by name, if I am lucky enough to remember the names I have been able to grab.

 

And, considering how much DC has actually begun to move away from exclusivity (previous years' CB holidays showing up, the old Trick or Treats from other years coming back, the monthly CB prize raffle), I am - and always will be - in the camp of getting rid of name exclusivity. 

[Keileon]

The CB argument really falls flat when you consider the Market was added literally to make anyone able to get a CB Gold/Silver/whatever they want to spend their shards on.

[Shadowdrake]

Code exclusivity is technically more flexible than name exclusivity currently is anyway! Unless it's all numbers, there are from two to thirty-two capitalized variations of any specific code, while names don't even have that option. Anyway, DC has had many "fundamentals" in its history and many of these were changed, so an argument of "this is the way DC has always been and should always be" doesn't hold water. Even aspects of the naming function itself are drastically different from how it used to be (unchangeable names, anyone?).